#banmal

[whysojiminimnida]

https://youtu.be/kd9fLqQul-Y

At 34.35 did jimin really say to jk that call me brother???

Nope. Not the way you mean it. It's a bit of a mistranslation that gets tossed around because there is not a good equivalent term in English. We don't use age-system honorifics. They do. See, the Korean "hyung" does not translate exactly. The closest we have is "brother" but it doesn't mean biological brother, which is why translators often shorten it to "bro" - another word that doesn't mean actual brothers. It's... closer. But it's not there. And this causes Westerners no end of headaches because people do just what you did and use "hyung" as "biological brother" exclusively, when it is used between brothers but also between friends - and lovers.

Hyung" is used between people who are close. It's a casual honorific. It's used between men only. Older men to younger men can, but don't have to, use the gender-neutral suffix "-ah". So, correctly, because they are close, Jungkook should call Jimin "Jimin-hyung" and Jimin should call Jungkook either just Jungkook or "Jungkook-ah". That happens maybe 50% of the time.

Big dongsaeng energy with bonus honorifics

My friend Kev's boyfriend of several years refers to him as "Kevi-hyung" or even "Kevi-ssi". And I assure you they are very much a couple. The word "hyung" or the honorific -ssi does not negate romantic involvement. In fact, it is unusual (I'm told) for a younger partner - even a romantic one - to use complete banmal (casual) speech. According to my guys, Kev uses hae-che speech with X - but X uses haera-che banmal (with "you" but without dropping the -hyung) with Kevin. Confused yet?

That whole -ssi thing is an entire other issue but it's adorable. Jungkook uses haera-che (half casual) speech with members pretty often because they're friends. But he uses hae-che banmal (completely casual) speech with Jimin quite often. AND THAT'S WEIRD.

Not just the -ah suffix but the "where are YOU going" was banmal, here. In public. And I'm told that everyone there would have known what that usage meant. (It means "we banging" in case you weren't sure).

The only time it is acceptable to drop honorifics with your elder is if you are in a romantic, established relationship with that person AND/OR the elder party has allowed it.

Literally, if you are dropping honorifics you are assumed to be and very likely ARE having sex with that person. That's nearly the ONLY TIME IT'S DONE unless the elder party has suggested it. And Jimin never seems to suggest it - if anything, he teases back with the "be polite, call me hyung" thing. So instead of getting hung up on the translation of the word "hyung" maybe pay attention to when it ISN'T used.

Jungkook uses banmal here. Basically, "hey you". RUDE LOL Kevin explained it to me by saying it would be like me walking into my boss's office and instead of calling her "Doctor", I said "Hey you, babe." THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Not if I wanted to keep my job. But Jungkook does it often. He does it in public. And what's more, he GETS AWAY WITH IT. Look at him grin when Jimin calls him on it here:

"That's not how you address your elder", or, basically, "be polite" - and Koo just gives him a shit-eating grin and says "well how else do I say it", with all that implies. He might as well have said "what should I call you then, baby", because that is exactly what he meant. LOOK AT THAT BRATTY FLIRTY GRIN.

And Jimin, well aware they're on camera in public, says, "Call me hyung" And Jungkook goes, sassy AF, "Okay, hyung" That little shit. I love him. I love them both. ETA AND WELL SHIT KEV HAS CORRECTED MY ASS. I got haera-che and hae-che speech mixed up. THIS IS WHY YOU WANT A NATIVE SPEAKER KIDS. Okay so it is now edited and correct but if you reblogged me on the first run, might wanna make a note. Haera-che is the half-casual, less formal (6th on 7 levels of speech). Hae-che is level 7 or complete banmal. DAMN KOREAN IS HARD.

[foryoujikook-blog]

"Jimin-ah, its okay even if youre not the first, since you were always the best." said Jungkook banmally to Jimin who eats 2130 bowls of rice more and the one who borns in busan first.

Jikook nation are you okay? Cause im notttttttttt 😭💜

[shayskoreancorner]

PSA ON BTS IN SAIPAN SUMMER PACKAGE 2018

I'm seeing a lot of videos, gifs, and posts about the I.B.A part of the summer package when V calls Jungkook '친구'/chingu and how Jungkook supposedly reacts aggressively/Jungkook's reaction proves TaeKook is real/Jungkook's reaction shows they're not really friends, etc.

친구 is a term used with same aged friends and the closeness of the friendship.

Meaning, V and Jimin are 친구 because they were both born in 1995. RM and Jhope are 친구 because they were both born in 1994. Jin and Suga are hyung and dongsaeng, not 친구, because Jin was born in 92 and Suga in 93.

V calling Jungkook 친구 was more of a slip of the tongue (which goes with the later part of his statement when he says Jungkook sits and listens to his problems. This is what a friend does, this is what he has said Jimin does. So, it might have meant he feels like they're the same age.)

Jungkook's reaction was more of surprise because he knows they're not 친구 with V being born 2 years before him. (If you look at past videos, for example, the one when they're playing with the lie detector, BTS says, It's true you don't have any 친구 and Jungkook slightly nods. At the time, because he grew with BTS and they were working so much, he didn't have any idol friends who were the same age as him. Until he started hanging out with Got7's Yugyeom. Now, a bunch of 97liners have their own group chat. (The group chat apparently has an "inappropriate" name 🤷)

He was teasing V. It's why the rest of BTS were laughing too. It's also why he continued and spoke in 반만 or infornal language when he said, I'm keeping an eye on you, when V tried to continue and said he'd be introducing Jungkook to A.R.M.Y. Same aged friends or 친구 don't have the level of speech formality as with people who are older or younger than them.

And, honestly, V has slipped a few times and called Jungkook hyung and we all know Jungkook is not older than V.

I'm done. Sorry. The misinformation/misinterpretation was really bothering me.

[jungkooks-tuna]

Taeyong: “banmal cam: start!”

[study-korean]

[inoctoberwebloom]

So there’s something I’m finding confusing. Jk mentioned ‘Paul kim-ssi’ on fan cafe and I found out that Paul Jim is 30 years old. I know a lot of us KM stans always find it special when jk drops honorifics with jimin as he’s older than jk. Paul Jim is a lot older than jk and jk dropped honorifics. So this means that honorifics don’t mean much as we think they do? So why is it a big deal when jk says jimin-ssi OR jimin-ah if it can be used with anyone your close with?

I’ve seen that this particular topic raises a lot of questions in the KM community (myself included) so let’s try to analyze what it means in general: (I’ve used this amazing article which explains banmal and its differents uses)

“One of the things I find endlessly fascinating about the Korean language is the magnitude of what people call each other, and how they address one another as relationships evolve. (...)So what is banmal, and what are the rules? How can banmal be rude in one moment, and romantic in the next?

Banmal is informal or familiar speech, and the literal word can be translated as: “half” and “word/speech.” It’s half-speak, or jondae cut in half. It’s not so much the volume of words that’s cut, although banmal does require fewer words to convey meaning. It’s the formality and the extraneous polite address that can be pared down when using banmal.

As a general rule, people who are: 1) of the same age or older than you, and 2) familiar with you can use banmal.

The clearest delineations are within families. Anyone who’s older than you in your family will use banmal with you. The reverse is a little trickier. 

If you’re the younger person, when can you use banmal?

Within immediate families, siblings use banmal with each other. Some people who are more distant with their parents use jondae, while most close families use banmal with parents. I speak to my parents in banmal and will continue to do so my whole life. There is also a generational difference, because while I use banmal with my parents, they use jondae with their parents. But there’s no hard and fast rule, even with family members, because banmal is used only when you feel that level of comfort with someone. (...) Naturally, anyone who is older or in a position of authority (the hyung-nim, the sunbae, the boss) will use banmal, while everyone else will speak in jondae.

When you’re a kid, things are simple: you use jondae with adults, and banmal with other kids. As an adult, banmal is used only with people you are familiar with, having already established that you are on banmal terms. You would never start out an interaction using banmal. Not cool. 

So how on earth do you establish banmal terms? Cutting down to banmal requires a tacit agreement to do so, by both parties. Usually there is a conversation, or one person does so experimentally, seeking approval to speak comfortably. 

Now, in a romantic relationship, these differences take on more significant meanings. Whether or not a couple uses banmal with each other speaks volumes about where they are emotionally, and how comfortable they feel around each other. If one party is older, then the older one may drop the formalities as a sign of closeness. 

I think this paragragh directly answers your question about JK addressing that actor (he wasn’t using banmal):

Using banmal goes hand in hand with how people address each other. If a couple is roughly the same age, they will start out calling each other name-sshi and speaking in jondae. Once you get to banmal, name-sshi becomes name-ah or name-ya (which are both equivalent and based on consonant/vowel, just like “a tree,” “an apple”; eg. Eun-jo-ya, Ki-hoon-ah).”

[hobi-hobs]

Honestly Taetae, just GRAB him!! pt 2

[hobi-hobs]

Jimin when will u be able to speak banmal with Hobi without getting in trouble 😂