#bloobluebloo

[sunnidaydreamer]

Going to a surprise coming from me but I am curious about your view on Zelink

Which one? In general? It kind of flip flops lol

[inspiteofganon]

@bloobluebloo replied to your post “@aspen-of-the-gentry replied to your post “Another...”:

The problem is that Nintendo didn't really think of any of this when they created the Gerudo apart from lifting the most basic of orientalist stereotypes when it comes to the harem in designing them as eyecandy. So, to be honest, I think its perfectly acceptable and encouraged to make hcs that step out of canon when its initial representation is steeped in racism, misogyny and transphobia tbh

​TRUE. It's pretty embarrassing that the thought process that went into them was so shallow that they didn't even consider all the implications. It's not the '90s anymore... do better!

I do feel like I'm losing my marbles a wee bit when people act like their interpretations are canon though. As if I don't have to memorize an entirely new set of rules and information every time I engage with a fanwork that has its own interpretation of the gerudo that mismatches canon by enough-- which isn't a huge ask of a reader/viewer, but it adds up over time precisely because so many people want to fix the gerudo. Like, it's NOT obvious!! You (as in fanartists in question) made "that" (whatever "it" is) up independently of the canon and you have to keep talking/creating if you want me to have the slightest idea what you're on about and think it worthy of accepting!! The "fandom fixer-upper" pattern of flawed canon things having their main appeal being that they must be completely rebuilt by randoms because they have a nugget of coolness under the trash makes me dissolve into slime. BUT I DIGRESS...

It IS perfectly acceptable and encourage-able. The canon is racist, misogynist, and transphobic to a cringe degree, and it can be rather dubious if one enjoys leaning into all that by too much. I like seeing what people come up with to try and do the gerudo justice and make them more than just an uncomfortable orientalistic fantasy. Because they could be! I want them to be. If anything, people don't talk enough about how they want to change the gerudo. Goodness knows I'm trying in my own little corner to be more bold with them.

Wish that Nintendo cared enough to do that work for us so we could all get on the same page.

[waywardsalt]

I must ask the following question of course: 6- Whats your favorite version of Ganon?

And perhaps this one too: 15- Which game impacted you the most?

6: prooobably original hyrule warriors ganondorf? i havent played every game ganondorf shows up in so i generally go off of what other people say about him but i did play hyrule warriors and picked it back up recently specifically to check up on that ganondorf and. yeah. he's fun both with his dialogue and his playstyle and his design is REALLY good. i havent reached him in my story replay yet but he's just. really fun in that game. when i come up with au ganondort designs i usually just hw ganon as a jumping-off point because... idk man that mane they gave him is glorious. second place goes to oot

15: ohhhhhhh yknowwwww phantom hourglass for sure. that's the easy and obvious answer- but to shake things up i'll also answer with a link between worlds. my first loz games were the original, adventure of link, and a link to the past, but they mostly existed as options within the little emulator library i had at the time, and a link between worlds was the first zelda game i actually played to completion and was the one to actually spark the loz interest. and so the first proper domino falls and i eventually play phantom hourglass

[toushindai]

Hello, it is me again with a question for you regarding your Ganrauru series 😁

I was just thinking about how you have framed Rauru's relationship to power, that there is a part of him that does seek the sort of friendship and genuine connection it brings while also bristling at the idea of someone opposing him and discarding his attempts at making said peace and friendship. That being said I was wondering, given Rauru's very complex feelings and mental gymnastics around Ganondorf and his refusal to submit, in your opinion what would have Rauru felt compelled to do had Ganondorf refused his advances? What if he had continued to refuse his invitations to Hyrule? How about in the case where Ganondorf does give his false vow of fealty, but refuses Rauru's more sexual advances, seeing them for what they are? How do you think Rauru would handle this situation, and how would he justify himself in the sort of framework he has set for himself as a just king? (For the record I don't think for a second that Ganondorf would have refused, just because I see him as an opportunist and he would absolutely take the opportunity to exercise some form of power over this so-called king in his mind, even if he is deluding himself in the process and choosing to forget that Rauru is essentially keeping him like a prisoner and objectifying him. But, it is something I do think about, even in the context of canon itself. What would Rauru do if Ganondorf and the Gerudo dug their heels in and refused allegiance with Hyrule?)

Ooooh this is such a great question. Consent issues ahoy, let's get into it

I was thinking about something similar the other day from a slightly different angle; if I argue that the Gerudo's previous chieftain was leading Rauru on, maintaining diplomatic relations and humoring his overtures, what would have happened if she had eventually said "No, actually"? And I think with either negotiating partner, Rauru's first emotional response is a petty, confused indignation. Excuse me I am benevolent and my rule is beneficial, why are you not responding to me accordingly?. We see this kind of pettiness canonically, I think--Zelda introduces herself and his response can be interpreted as "No, I'm king here, you want to try that again?"; Mineru tells him he can't defeat the Demon King alone and he gives her such a look. My guy, what is going on with you.

How this plays out with Ganondorf and a protracted refusal from the Gerudo to join up is of course a slightly different question of course, and I can't really see any answer to it other than that Rauru just... will not hear a no. Hyrule just keeps pushing the boundaries of what they can get away with. The shrines are already in place on Gerudo land but what if there were, you know, a military outpost or two as well. How much control over trade does Hyrule have, and how do they exercise it? Is there eventually an attitude of, well, if the Gerudo want nothing to do with Hyrule, then Hylians shouldn't be marrying Gerudo? I'm spitballing here, but a lot of this has an air of punishment to it, yknow? Retaliating against the Gerudo for not responding positively to Hyrule's invitations/incursions, for not playing into Rauru's self-conception and thus revealing the ways in which it's not fully true. Wow, so benevolent.

I don't see any world in which Rauru escalates to armed conflict first but I see many, many worlds in which he escalates to a point that armed conflict is an understandable response from the Gerudo. I mean. Is not "I have decided I'm gonna be king of this new kingdom I just made up :) You're invited!" already pretty close to that point? If we're being honest? I do feel like it is. (And I wonder if there's any world in which he loses the support of the allied tribes, if this pressure ever could have been perceived as the imperialism it was.)

How does Rauru justify this to himself, this refusal to acknowledge the Gerudo's no, this inch-by-inch encroachment? By conflating, I think, his personal sense of injury with the threat of harm. Ganondorf does not want the Gerudo to become part of Hyrule is shrunk down to the petty, personal terms of Ganondorf thinks of me as an enemy and then expanded again into Ganondorf is an enemy of Hyrule. He's right about that last one because Nintendo is so very boring about this, but he's making a series of logical fallacies without realizing it. I don't see a lot of propensity towards self-reflection in Rauru. Not without Very Bad Things Happening to Him first. So he trusts his own feelings without questioning them.

As for what would have happened if Ganondorf had turned down his sexual advances... oh that would just be awkward for everyone, wouldn't it? In the sense that: I think that part of what keeps Ganondorf from pushing back when Rauru is being petty and imperious is Ganondorf's own recognition--conscious or not--that Rauru will not necessarily listen to a no. This is his experience of Rauru thus far, of someone who receives an implicit no and rather than respect it simply keeps asking and thinks himself right to do so (canonicallyyyyyyy). And so there is a risk for Ganondorf in saying "no": that of winding up in a situation where he has drawn a line in the sand that he cannot defend. One that Rauru will coldly step over. Rauru doesn't want to be in this situation, either: he doesn't want to see that he is a person who will only accept a "no" if he thinks it's justified. His mind squirms around admitting how coercive he's being, even to himself. But on some level he does know what sort of position he's putting Ganondorf in. He knows that Ganondorf is not in a position to say no, and that's a balm on the ego-wound that Ganondorf's political refusals have inflicted. One that reveals that the true nature of the ego-wound is not he does not think I am good but he does not acknowledge my power. (Again I gesture towards "I'm the only king Hyrule's got, who r u" and "excuse u, wat do u mean I can't defeat the Demon King")

So if Ganondorf did actually say no? In ACNOC, after that first kiss, a cold, "I don't want this, Your Majesty"? There is a part of Rauru that flares with the desire to take anyway, to say have you not come to offer me your submission?, but so early in the situationship maybe he is able to recognize that desire for the cruelty it is. ...Maybe. But god, can he afford to? Can he afford to apologize to Ganondorf for overreaching? Mm, absolutely not. Even if he ceases to try to goad Ganondorf into a sexual relationship, I think the answering dialogue is along the lines of "Then what makes you think you have the right to invade my personal space like this? Your actions belie your claim that you have come to offer submission to Hyrule." There's still very much a need to put Ganondorf in his place--an increased need, even, having just lost a bit of face by allowing Ganondorf to refuse him something.

(consent issues get louder)

At the end of UAWTATR, though, hhhhhhhh. Many times I have turned this thought over in my head. At that point. I think there might be some phrasing of the sentiment I don't want this that would stop Rauru in his tracks with the realization that hey this is WAY rape-ier than I wanna be, but I'll be honest. I haven't figured out yet what phrasing would do it. I think most protests that Ganondorf could have offered would have been met with something that boiled down to I know you don't want this, but your position relative to mine means you're going to do it anyway.

How he justifies that to himself later, I don't know. Ganondorf did try to assault him just the night before so that comes into it, probably. That Ganondorf immediately tries really hard to kill him keeps him from having to look to closely at it, either. He's still left with a feeling of nauseated shame and horror but he's got other things on his mind.

God. Nintendo cannot possibly have meant to make Rauru like this but then why did they make Rauru sO CONSISTENTLY LIKE THIS. I know I am expanding things. But I am expanding things that DO exist. Why is he like this.

[drsteggy]

For the ask game 👀

2. A character whose POV you're currently exploring

4. A story idea you haven't written yet

16. Favorite place to write

23. Pick three keywords that describe your writing Also, since you asked when I went searching for your askbox: 👊👊👊🤕

Why are you punching me in the face bloo. WHAT DID I DO.

2. I mean. The POV is Link like 95% of the time, though the one I’m actively picking at in Scriv is 7 years post BOTW and all those trauma Cuccos have come home to roost as it were, and he is having a pretty bad time of things and well. Tears of the Kingdom. I’m exploring this through a series of one shots that also involve monsters, so that’s been fun.

4. By “not written yet” I’m assuming you just mean some sick idea that I actually wrote down but have yet to punt around and the most recent of those is Ocarina of Time flavored and something something Saria raising an orphaned Link. That’s it so far.

16. My living room on the tablet, I have bad habits

23. Huh hmmmmm. Humorous, smart and emotional. Yeah.

Thanks for the ask @bloobluebloo !

[tonbane]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MY FELLOW GANONDORF PROPAGANDIST 🥳🥳🥳 May your day be filled with good food and good vibes ✨✨✨

THANK YOU MY DEAR FRIEND AND SPOUSE OF GANONDORF!!!! 🦀🦀🦀🦀 We're gonna have sushi 🍣🍣🍣 :3

[inspiteofganon]

@bloobluebloo replied to your post “does anyone else play "does the artist think...”:

I play a broader game of "does the artist actually appreciate the character" because, as you mention, there are traits an artist might give him that may seem undesirable to me but are desirable to the artist in question. There are certain kinks and tropes that some people really like (for example, those people that really are into draw very large very well defined muscles which admittedly, not my thing) and a lot of those people also really like Ganondorf. Anyways the only time I really see Ganondorf draw in an "ugly" way imo is if the purpose of his portrayal is to show him being a threat or menace because ugly = evil. I find this is reflected in the way many people's initial reaction to wanting or desiring a Ganondorf with more character development was "you just want that because you think he's hot"

​That's the idea! And that's why trying to sus out context is such a big part of it when getting more specific than that (the game is rendered mostly over if the artist comes out and says their opinion on his looks, or does something obvious like selfship with him). Usually I don't have enough of a sample size-- especially for artworks where not a lot is happening-- to determine a more certain "hot or not?" It's easier to determine if the artist may struggle with him, or find him uncool, what features they try and bring out or minimize when depicting him... Ganondorf has such a distinct look about him that he varies a lot when people draw him because it's honestly kind of hard to capture, which is part of the fun of the game.

Plenty of times one isn't actively trying to make Ganondorf ugly-- he is a fit and well-dressed fellow with a cool visage-- but even if all the "handsome" ingredients are there... it just won't combine into the right vibe. Heck, even if a work is pornographic and Ganondorf is a key figure, the piece can still radiate major "doesn't really find him attractive" vibes! (this usually being result of him either just being there as a vehicle for an act rather than a facet of the big picture to be oogled, or looking so off-model he basically becomes an OC) "Finding Ganondorf hot" is a wide spectrum, so in playing this game I gotta be mindful that yes indeed... the artist might simply be into things I'm not.

A lot of people seem to just be trying to make him recognizable at all. Like "OK, here's Ganondorf", and they succeed well enough. It's a harder game outside of art that's longform sequential or shippy. He's not a common focus with depth, sadly.

I hesitate to give any contemporary examples of Ganondorfs I could clock as "artist probably thinks he's on the ugly side" in public since I don't wanna make any online artists who're up and around offended (though it's not a game I play to be mean), so I'll pull a few vintage 'Dorfs from History of Hyrule's library to give everyone a brief session of the game. This one's easy.

At a glance of these three... which artist probably found Ganondorf the most appealing?

[toushindai]

Seeing your thoughts on Rauru, I am now curious: how do you approach Ganondorf as a character? How does that compare or contrast with how you think about Rauru?

Thank you for the ask and all your thoughtful comments!! I've really appreciated them.

Approaching Ganondorf has been a different, more conscious process from how I approached Rauru; when I sat down to start brainstorming "A Sense of Entitlement" there was very much a moment where I had to ask myself "well, what am I trying to communicate about Ganondorf here?" I felt like, because I was putting all this mental work into complicating Rauru, I owed it to Ganondorf to complicate him as well, but I don't think the game presents quite as many juicy contradictions in Ganondorf's character. The game doesn't really seem interested in a well-rounded Ganondorf, a Ganondorf who has a point in resisting Hyrule's formation. Which sucks! Thank god we've all invented fanfiction and can do whatever we want forever.

It took me a little while to pin down the exact shape of him, but what I did decide on very early was that he is just deeply unhappy, the way a bottomless pit is unhappy. Nothing can fill him up besides being in control and exerting that control cruelly. Trace that backwards a bit--back further than he is willing to trace it, because there could be weakness at its source--and there is a paranoia, an inability to trust: only force and domination can be trusted to be real, anything else will be toppled when a strong enough force comes along. Any ally who does not fall 100% in line must be brought into line or self-evidently cannot be trusted. And then peel that feeling back a little more and I see alienation and a hideous, howling loneliness. A how-do-you-survive-this loneliness. And that's the feeling I place at his core--though it's well and truly obliterated from his conscious awareness.

I like writing about alienation? Not realizing that you're queer and autistic until you're in your twenties will do that to you, eh. The alienation from his people that I see in Ganondorf I do honestly read as a bit of a queer one, specifically, given that he is the only person in his culture who is going to exist in his gender category for the entire length of his lifespan. I think that has to feel pretty weird! I think it has to feel alienating, even if the form the alienation takes is that of putting him on a pedestal as king (but also, I have to assume--I will take the liberty of assuming--still being suspicious of other voe in a way that would be obviously visible to Ganondorf). In the fic I have him speaking of the Eighth Heroine, and while when I originally wanted that to be something he learned from Twinrova to inspire him to take pride in himself and the people he would one day lead, I uh. I had to nix that idea because the story of the Eighth Heroine doesn't accomplish that. It is not a story that would make a male Gerudo feel welcome among his people OR reassure him of his people's power! (It is frankly a bad story.) So instead it's something he found when he was--as a much younger man--searching for any evidence that a voe might have a place integrated into Gerudo society. The answer he found was "lmao not even if you save our entire ass 😌." He does not like this story. But to acknowledge how rejected it made him feel would be to look at something he believes is weakness, so instead he focuses on his disgust that even the Seven Heroines needed the strength of an outsider to conquer their enemy.

He has no place in his culture but he has an inescapably prescriptive place in his culture. He was raised knowing that he would be king, that everything he desired would be given to him because he is male. It is impossible to say textually what Twinrova wanted for him because they are. easter eggs. and so I just had to make it up: and what I decided was that they wanted him to be a conqueror, to lead the Gerudo and take over the rest of the land (solidified at some point during his lifespan into the kingdom of Hyrule). They wanted him to rule the Gerudo and the Gerudo to rule the world; but when Ganondorf lost his faith in his kinswomen he also lost interest in being an arm of the Gerudo and instead just wanted power for power's sake. I said this in a comment response but if the game is not going to give me a Ganondorf who is resisting Hyrule for the sake of his people--if it is going to give me a Ganondorf who, upon ascension to the form of the Demon King, seemingly abandons his Gerudo soldiers (Gerudo soldiers who were on board with his attacks on Hyrule! COME BACK THAT WAS INTERESTING) to go joyriding with a bunch of monsters and a rather cool horse instead--then I am going to make that a part of the tragedy of his character. It is a tragedy that he is so disconnected from his people. It is an enormous gaping hole inside him, this lack of connection with anyone.

But to acknowledge that, to feel it, would be to feel weak, and he cannot ever allow that. So he converts it all into cruelty and hatred and misery. He looks at people who have allied with each other and judges them weak for loving peace, for joining together instead of tearing each other apart. (In the Japanese, I am told, he explicitly hates the Zonai for accelerating this process.) He looks at any subordinate--or frankly at any other Gerudo--who does not fall in line with his agenda of unflinching conquest and scorns them for disloyalty and softheartedness. He hates whatever he sees and that hatred would be all-consuming if he were not so strong, so deliberately in control of himself. NOT to toot my own horn but I'm damn proud of this sentence:

Each movement is almost a meditation on his rage, fostering a measured alliance with the disgust and hatred he feels.

I think that is how he experiences just about every waking second. He has cut off all his access to happiness that does not come from dominating and taking away the power and happiness of others, and he has walked so far down this path--each step taking him further away from holistic contentment, each step taking him closer to the ability to dominate all he sees--that he could never turn back now.

Urbosa could've fixed him. imo. when he was much younger. (I'm saying this like a joke but I mean it.)

WAit I forgot to get into how he contrasts with Rauru. The thing between them is that both of them want power, want to have power over others; but Rauru hides this from himself because he thinks the desire for power is evil and he wants to think himself good, whereas Ganondorf... I think is probably comfortable thinking of himself as evil, or at least as what others term evil. And his comfort with his desire for power allows him to wield it much more effectively than Rauru does. We've got a bit of a hard power/soft power contrast going on. Ganondorf believes in power and physical force but Rauru's power lies in diplomacy and civility. In the trappings of social niceties. Ganondorf subjects himself to this framework by swearing his false fealty to Hyrule and finds it more ensnaring than he enjoys (he enjoys it zero), but once he has the opportunity to actually act in his own element by seizing Sonia's secret stone, the social niceties are powerless against his brute force.