#dbd analysis

[mirabel-on-a-bicycle]

Charles died trying to protect a Pakistani boy from a hate crime. Charles, a half Indian person, died- like fuck I'm so emotional about this.

"I mean I'm half Indian, why am I so different?"

Listen. Given the history of the IndoPak conflict, we aren't talking about the subtle implications of this line enough. Not only did Charles look at this kid and see himself in him, he tackled the xenophobia at face value—no strings attached, no connotations, history be damned. And what undoes me even more is that he believed that boy was no different from him and therefore did not deserve to be treated that way. He never once showed any regret for doing what he did. And that is so so telling of Charles, in a much deeper sense than we might realise at first.

Charles was always a protector through and through. He died for it. And even after, no matter who it was, he never stopped being a protector. But in that moment specifically, that act of immigrant solidarity?? It was like... an entire lifetime of history classes and unending geopolitical strife and debates about who deserves to live and who doesn't just flashed before my eyes when Charles took one look at him and went "Oh fuck no. I'm no different. We're in this together and I'm not leaving you alone". I cannot stress enough how much that healed me :')))

[adhd-orion]

I keep thinking about Edwin’s confession to Charles. Specifically Charles’ response.

The way Charles chooses his words so, so carefully. He doesn’t want to hurt Edwin, the most important person in the world to him, his best mate, the only person he would go to Hell for. The way that Charles emphasizes that “I can’t say I’m in love with you back, but there is no one, no one else.”

I don’t think Charles has put any thought into how he really feels about Edwin. I don’t think that the possibility of his feelings fringing on anything romantic has ever crossed his mind, but I also don’t think that there’s nothing there. Because Charles clearly loves Edwin, in some cosmic, eternal way.

This is the boy who only a few scenes ago was cradling a sobbing Edwin’s face in his hands with promises that he will get him out of Hell, no matter what. Who held Edwin’s hand when he thought they were going to die. Who physically protects Edwin countless times, and who quite literally (thought) he killed a woman for. The boy who gets jealous whenever Edwin begins spending more time with other guys (Monty). The boy who instantly offers to beat up a nearly-immortal being if he was “getting frisky” with Edwin. The boy who admits that perhaps he likes Crystal so much because she reminds him of Edwin.

And in the moment when Edwin confesses, they are in such a hectic environment. The stakes could literally not be higher for them then. And I think at that moment Charles doesn’t know what to say. Because he knows he feels something for Edwin, but he’s never had the time to think about it. And in that moment he certainly doesn’t have the time to analyze it.

I think Charles just needs time to think things through. Hell, I think we even see the beginning of the cogs turning at the very last shot of the series - Charles leaning over Edwin, heads resting together, Charles joking about about having a “convincing smile”. There’s an energy to that lighthearted moment that makes me think Charles has begun thinking, and considering that maybe there’s something more there for him as well.

[hephanna]

On the Cat King, Edwin & Charles. [And David the Demon + Crystal, and Jenny + Maxine & Niko].

Not to unnecessarily pipe in my two cents when it hasn't been asked for, BUT I just wanted to mention some of my thoughts on The Cat King, Edwin, Charles (and Crystal + David the Demon) sometimes fantasy shows use supernatural elements as allegories for real life situations (this is seen with Buffy, Supernatural, and yes Dead Boy Detectives) and therefore just because it's supernatural/fantasy, it cannot immediately be dismissed as 'not needing to follow real life moral rules' For example in Dead Boy Detectives, David the Demon, despite being a demon, is clearly an allegory for an abusive ex-boyfriend - Jenny even points this out on-screen. David is in Crystals' head, harassing her and tearing down her self-confidence (telling her she isn't worth anything) the way an abusive ex-boyfriend may linger in their victim's mind even after breaking up. He takes away her memories (and therefore her identity) the same way an abusive boyfriend takes away the identity of the woman he is abusing, her sense of self, her connections. And Crystal must take her sense of self, her memory, her confidence back by defeating David. Although David is a demon, he is still meant to reflect a real-life abusive ex-boyfriend, even a human one. The same thing is true with the Cat King - not saying he's an abusive ex-boyfriend - but his behaviour cannot be justified by the fact that he's a supernatural creature. The audience is still meant to reflect, to make connections via the supernatural on real-life situations. Now, I'm not saying the Cat King was wrong for trying to shoot his shot with Edwin, or that Edwin wasn't attracted to the Cat King, HOWEVER, Edwin's attraction doesn't mean the Cat King is entitled to his time or affection - nor does it mean the Cat King has a right to disregard Edwin's boundaries. Disregarding their introductory meeting, and discussions about whether or not it was morally correct of the Cat King to ask Edwin to have sex with him after putting a magical bracelet on his wrist, several incidents after that also demonstrate the Cat King taking away Edwin's choice from him (such as using a truth spell on him to force Edwin into confessing why he's a detective in hopes of not being sent back to Hell) - regardless of the Cat King's response "I like your secret parts" you shouldn't force someone into being vulnerable for you before they are ready - the same way it would be wrong to read someone's private journal, or get someone drunk with the purpose of asking them invasive questions you know they wouldn't answer sober. The Cat King views himself as entitled to the 'real' Edwin, regardless of whether Edwin feels comfortable sharing that with the Cat King. This is also seen when the Cat King saves Edwin from Monty, and then gets upset when that doesn't get him what he wants (a kiss, sex, whatever) and Edwin gets frustrated with the Cat King, reminding him he's a person, not a toy. The audience is meant to emphasize with Edwin, and understand the situation he's in and how it parallels real life situations. (i.e., someone thinking you owe them sex because they bought you a drink at a bar) Edwin forgives the Cat King at the end, because a part of Edwin's character journey, along with self-discovery, is also forgiveness. He understands the Cat King is also struggling, in the same way he understood Simon was struggling, but there struggles do not mean the way they treated Edwin was acceptable. That doesn't mean the Cat King can't grow from this, and learn to respect Edwin and his boundaries. That also doesn't mean you can't still ship the Cat King/Edwin and enjoy an unhealthy power dynamic, boundary pushing, etc., this is still fiction after all, and I'd be a huge hypocrite to say that all my ships are morally good and acceptable. But I just also think "it's a fantasy show! it doesn't need to follow our morals!" is a flimsy understanding of the text - just acknowledge that something doesn't have to be morally correct for you to enjoy it, but don't remove the morals altogether.

There is a reason, after all, as Edwin accepts his sexuality, he realizes he is in love and wants Charles, not the King Cat. There is a reason (I think, at least) that the show creates obvious parallels between Charles & the Cat King - and shows Charles very obviously not liking the Cat King. Also, just another little thought, this is also demonstrated with Jenny & Maxine. Maxine seems 'innocent' because she's a sweet, blonde librarian who is writing Jenny Love Notes - and the Love Notes are even acknowledged, as creepy from the get-go, but then it's like "oh, but it's just a sweet, innocent woman who's writing them, it's actually super romantic!" And then the twist is, no, actually, it still is creepy. Maxine was literally stalking Jenny for possibly months, watching her through her window, and as we saw: not accepting Jenny's boundaries when it became clear Jenny was uncomfortable. Like the Cat King got upset and mad with Edwin, saying he wasn't going to 'play nice' anymore, Maxine got upset with Jenny and then tried to kill her, yelling 'why won't you let me love you.' Again, just because you like someone, and even if that person was initially or still is attracted to you - like Jenny was initially attracted to Maxine - that does not mean you are entitled to their love, their privacy, or their body. Everyone still have free choice. There is a reason Jenny did not immediately forgive Niko for pushing her to go on a date with Maxine, and why Niko felt so guilty - it wasn't Niko's fault, at all, because Maxine made her own choices, but Jenny had been uncomfortable with the situation from the get-go, and she was proven right - and put into extreme danger because of it. This isn't to say the Cat King is terrible - again, I enjoyed the Cat King character. I liked his interactions with Edwin, his sarcasm and tricks. But his behaviour towards Edwin went beyond flirtation and wanting to be with Edwin, and at times was coercive, manipulative, and toxic. Which is okay! As we learned during the end, Crystal was also toxic during her life and then wanted to change and become a better person. The Cat King can also be toxic, and then learn and want to change and better himself. I just personally think that's an important aspect to acknowledge of the Cat King's journey - instead of sweeping it under the rug, or telling other fans they're "reading too deeply into it" and "just don't understand what demonstrating sexual interest in someone is." Or "it's fantasy." Because there's demonstrating sexual interest in someone, and then there's routinely and purposefully bull-dozing over someone's boundaries, which we see the Cat King to do Edwin. Anyway, apologies for my huge ramble, I am not trying to be mean to anyone or say anyone cannot ship the Cat King/Edwin (and I am admittedly biased - Edwin/Charles holds my heart) but I enjoy show analysis, healthy debate, etc,. and just really wanted to share my thoughts and engage with the community. All my love, Hephie.

[what-thisiscrazzzy]

Some thoughts from my second watch of ‘The Case of The Devlin House’

Sorry if this long and obvious I just need to say stuff

- Charles mentions liking the song playing in the house, noting that he played it a lot before his dad smashed it with a hammer. 1) this is the first thing about the house which strikes a personal chord between Charles and the Devlins 2) this likely puts Charles’ dad in his mind causing his emotional reaction to be more intense later? 3) it’s an example of his father being controlling. Later we hear that one of the girls in the house found her father extremely controlling. Charles talks about never being able to make him happy. This is an example of this behaviour, specifically something Charles finds joy in upsetting his father and causing a violent outburst 3) possibly a first clue to his fear of being just like his dad? It’s a link between a violent man and Charles during a case about child abuse, emotions can be very messy making links that aren’t 100% logical. I think the mention of the song just feels intentional as any other aspect of the case could link to Charles but his love of music is very specific.

- Edwin doesn’t have a notable reaction to the violence. Truthfully I was mostly watching Charles and the camera work does as well. However, Edwin notably doesn’t flinch as much as anyone else during the murders, he does react but not the same degree as far as I could tell. When Edwin and Crystal share a frame during the suicide she has a larger reaction. Additionally, he doesn’t freak out as much/like everyone else, staying mostly level headed. This is likely due to his time in hell, the horror is disturbing but doesn’t shock him to the same degree. Edwin has experience and witnessed violence for decades so while Charles is triggered and Crystal is very empathetic he remains more composed.

- Edwin only freaks out when Charles is in trouble. This adds onto what I’ve just mentioned but Edwin is more composed until Charles is caught in the loop. The loop troubles him but he only really reacts with the same level as dramatics once Charles is in trouble. Again I think his time in hell made him not less empathetic but more capable of repressing horror or dealing with it. But losing Charles is not something he is accustomed to and cannot keep his composure about.

- Crystal being incredibly empathetic. Thought of this after but Edwin’s line about her being not what she did but what she does or whatever it was perfectly encapsulates what this episode says about Crystal. I think it was easy to get caught up in the Charles of it all but this episode really shows how caring and empathetic she is. Crystal notes when Charles is seriously affected. She herself is incredibly upset during the murders and try’s to leave after the first loop. She’s very upset to find out how she used to act. That last example is interesting bc she is shown who she was and is disgusted, this is in an episode where she is helping others. We are really shown that at her core Crystal is a good and caring person, as this is a rewatch I can say that this really sets up that it was circumstances that made her so cold and callous pre-David. Without the feelings such as abandonment by her parents she really acts with a big heart, clearly upset by suffering around her. I don’t have much more to say but yeah the episode does a good job at really contrasting the before and after of Crystal and showing her true character.

- someone else pointed this out before i rewatched but: Charles’ loop starts with his snapping at Edwin. While the entire experience appears specifically triggering for Charles and his intense reaction is there from the beginning he only becomes trapped after snapping at Edwin. More specifically after facing multiple triggering situations and then snapping at Edwin. He hears a song that he relates to a bad memory of his dad, witnesses the abuse of powerless children, reads a diary of said abused child which he relates to heavily and the the events of his being trapped in the loop happen.

I think this relates back to what I was saying about the song. Multiple confusing emotions related to his trauma are brought up. A song both he and the murder liked is playing as he snaps at his best friend. Lots of feelings there.

His fear over his mother and his fear and hurt during his own abuse are brought up. And then he snaps at his best friend, try’s a violent solution and then is attacked. I think his fear over being just like his dad is brought up and then the Devlin father’s violence was reminiscent of the violence he faced previously. The feeling of helplessness as he couldn’t fight back and the fear of himself. It’s something he can’t stop and he’s powerless to help, while also bringing out a part of himself he hates.

Charles has a strong sense of justice and the events of the Devlin house is extremely unjust so he is extremely upset and frustrated at what is occurring.

Charles plays at being so happy all the time because although he calls himself the Brawn, he’s the protector, we can see later on that his own violent capabilities scare him.

We, the audience, and his friends know hes not a violent person and would only react so in self defence but Charles greatest fear is that he’s not a Good Guy.

The Devlin house triggers all the issues he carries after the abuse he suffered including his fear of himself. He sees himself in the victims but a small part of him is scared he’s also like the perpetrator.

There’s so much here and that why I love Charles bc he’s got so much going on in his head hidden behind a smile

This was only meant to be short but I kept rambling on. So basically the song, Edwin, Edwin freaking out over Charles, Charles being emotionally complex bc he cares so much and is so hurt.

[ilovepunkyanimeguys]

I want to work on writing some fics that focus on Charles and Edwin’s usual demeanors, rather than focusing too much on the parts they keep hidden inside. I need to remind myself that their exteriors are just as real as the part they keep hidden. I made another post talking about that before, but…

Especially with Charles, I want to keep in mind that his happiness, and especially his kindness, are not just facades to hide the darkness within. He’s a genuinely good, protective, immensely caring person, who’s kind and friendly and sees the good in everyone. And I want to make sure I write some fics that portray that, so I don’t forget how sweet and wonderful he really is. I’ve been focusing on his dark side (his anger, aggression, and anxiety caused by his trauma), but I can’t let his trauma control him. He’s a good man, and his trauma is not who he is. His anxiety and trauma makes him believe he’s a bad person. His view of himself is skewed by his trauma, and I think that’s a really interesting story element, but I don’t want to fall into the trap of focusing so much on that that I start to believe his doubts and insecurities are the truth. He isn’t violent, he’s protective. He will fight to protect those he loves. He doesn’t fight to hurt people.

With Edwin, it’s not as bad. Because I don’t inherently see his vulnerability as a bad thing. I think his fragility emphasizes his sweet, gentle side. The side of him that just wants to relax and sink into Charles’s embrace and let go of all of his stress and strictness. But also, I think I should keep in mind that he has strengths and shouldn’t see him as a damsel in distress who faints whenever there’s danger. He’s brave and intelligent and strong-willed when it comes to solving cases and going out of his way to help those in need. He’s just as heroic as Charles. He has a strong sense of justice and will stop at nothing to make sure they save people’s souls from being doomed like he was. Not to mention he’s got so much sass and spunk and is pretty much the boss of the operation.

[help-the-horse]

DBD Ghostface/Legion thoughts

So lately I've been thinking harder on the dead by daylight lore and characters and how the entity works and how all the characters interact with each other within the trials or otherwise, and I had a few thoughts on specifically the way the legion gang interact with Ghostface and vice versa. As a disclaimer I am in no way a lore aficionado, especially on each individual Legion character, so I think of them more as a collective (which they are and the game wants you to think of them that way but besides the point, Anyway) if I happen to get any important lore beats wrong or if you wildly disagree with me that's all cool I just like thinking about all the little horror guys in the running in circles game.

SO the main thing I think about is how the Legion and Ghostface have an absolutely HORRID rivalry. The Legion are essentially true crime fanatic punk druggie young adults and end up killing almost as a happenstance and not necessarily because they are bloodthirsty and sadistic in the same way I believe Ghostface to be. Now yes of course I am aware that the Ghostface of dbd is not canonically the same as what we see in the original film/franchise but I would imagine the attitude and mentality are basically the same. I see Ghostface as a character who kills for the thrill of it, for the control over others at the most basic level, thriving off the chase and manipulation and the actual action of the killing and seeing the life leave someone. On the other hand, I see Legion as more "posers" for lack of a better term, they kill because they think they should, because that's what they aspire to be, not because that's what they actually are. They are outcasts from society first and foremost, and the killing is just an extreme result of their anger with how they have been outcast.

So how does this influence how the two parties interact? I think that the Legion see Ghostface as what they wish they could be/think they are but know they are not. Ghostface is an actual brutal serial killer before being brought into the fog, Legion fantasized about being serial killers before they were brought into the fog. I think this would cause a never ending rivalry, where Legion is constantly fighting to get more and increasingly gruesome kills, working to elevate themselves above Ghostface and prove in some way they can "play with the big boys" and aren't to be mocked or taken less seriously. On the other side, Ghostface absolutely revels in the fact that Legion gets so angry and defensive, he loves the fact that he doesn't even have to try when all the Legion seems to do is struggle. Legion keeps tallies for how many they've killed, Ghostface takes his victory photos and throws them in a shoebox and forgets about them. Ghostface can kill alone, the Legion members are a group of individuals who work together to up their kill count.

Ghostface would be completely unfazed when all the Legion members group up on him, because he knows he's ultimately a better killer and they know it deep down too. Legion is fighting to fit in, Ghostface is in his element. This is also not to mention the at the very least widely accepted theory (if not canon I'm not sure) idea that Ghostface is actually the favorite killer of the Entity, being that he seems to have a more prominent connection to the fog through his stalking animation and that the tendrils of his clothes float, having more of that ethereal/eldritch power from the Entity.

Anyway, just a fun thought I had as I learn more about the dbd lore. Might do more posts on how other survivors/killers would interact amongst each other, just have to think about who would have some fun dynamics. I'm always open to suggestions!

[hephanna]

the cat king is definitely toxic but your point is kind of confusing because david is literally crystal's ex. as in they dated and kissed and all that. he's a demon who possessed her but it's not an allegory for an abusive ex-boyfriend because he is textually her abusive ex-boyfriend. so i don't understand why that's a part of your post? just confused

Hi, there!! Thanks so much, allow me to provide some clarification. The abuse that David commits against Crystal is supernatural in nature (i.e., he is literally a demon, he is able to invade her mind and appear to her mentally, he is able to steal her memories) obviously, a human abusive ex-boyfriend is unable to do those things in real life. The "demon possession" is therefore an allegory for the real abuse committed by real men towards women - feeling as if their minds and sense of self are being invaded, torn down, a loss of identity, not feeling safe anywhere. Real abusive men are not actually supernatural demons, but they sure can feel like demons towards the women they are abusing. Therefore, making Crystal's abusive ex-boyfriend a literal demon is a purposeful narrative choice meant emphasize and highlight real life abusive relationships. For example in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel & Spike are both Buffy's actual love interests, but the supernatural abuse they commit against Buffy is an allegory to the real abuse women experience, but expressed through supernatural elements. Similarly, the Cat King is a real potential love interest for Edwin: the desire he expresses towards Edwin is real, Edwin's attraction towards him is real, and Edwin does does kiss him on the cheek - just like David the Demon was Crystal's canonical abusive ex-boyfriend. The Cat King is literally a potential romantic partner for Edwin. However the toxicity that the Cat King expresses towards Edwin is supernatural in nature: magical bracelets, truth spells, shape-shifting, etc., and the point I was attempting to make is how the intent behind those magical acts (disrespecting boundaries, being pushy, etc.,) can be mirrored in what real life people are capable of. Hopefully this helps make sense of what I was saying! Thanks so much.