#doch

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Day 5

Emotions

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Part 1

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konnen dass “doch” sein?

Hi!

eine gute Frage!

The ask is linking to this post:

It is the case that we sometimes use doch in questions like this, but not in the position and usage of "-ne"/-innit.

Instead, that reassurance-seeking in German works via "oder?" (lit. "or?") or "nicht?" (lit. "not?")

Standard English: It’s cold, isn’t it?

Japanese: Samui desu ne?

German: Es ist kalt, oder? / Es ist kalt, nicht?

(the "nicht" in colloquial language frequently gets shortened to "nich?" or "ne?" [nə])

Doch is likely to appear in these sentences, because one of its usecases is expressing the speaker's hope for a yes in yes-or-no questions

see dwds

So you're likely to see "doch" and "oder?"/"nicht?" together:

Es ist noch nicht sieben Uhr, oder? (read as: what time is it? I suspect it's before 7)

Es ist doch noch nicht sieben Uhr, oder? (read as: plz plz tell me it's not seven o'clock yet)

Du hast doch den Briefkasten geleert, nicht? (read as: plz plz tell me you checked the mailbox)

Hope this helps! :)

[menschenauflauf]

List of Modal Particles in German (Modalpartikeln)

i.e. tone indicators (halt, schon, doch, ja,...)

Modal particles are words that don't really have a meaning when they're isolated but change the tone of a sentence. Confusingly, most modal particles have a homonym belonging to a different word class. (e.g. "aber" is also a conjunction meaning 'but') They're very common in German, especially spoken German.

This list is incomplete.

That's a big cake.

Das ist ein großer Kuchen.

halt: "Das ist halt ein großer Kuchen."

-> Well, it's a big cake. We both know that's simply what big cakes are like.

or "Kuchen sind halt zu groß."

-> Resignation about the fact cakes are too big in general.

eben: "Das ist eben ein großer Kuchen."

-> same as "halt" (very tiny nuance: 'halt' implies the statement is plausible, 'eben' that it's evident, so 'eben' is more apodictic) [2]

nun mal: "Das ist nun mal ein großer Kuchen."

-> same as "eben"

doch: "Ich dachte, wir können den Kuchen auf den kleinen Teller stellen."

"Das ist doch ein großer Kuchen!"

-> As we both know, the cake is big and I want you to reconsider what you said earlier based on that. (doch often implies shared knowledge and a correction)

doch/nur/bloß: "Ach hätte ich doch/nur/bloß ein großes Stück Kuchen!"

-> If only I had a big slice of cake!

wohl: "Warum kommt sie mit einem LKW zur Feier?"

"Es ist wohl ein großer Kuchen."

-> I'm assuming it must be a big cake, then, going from the information we have right now. (I'm using "es" not "das" bc it's implied the speaker hasn't seen it yet) In this case it's a joke.

ja: "Das ist ja ein großer Kuchen."

-> stress on "das": I'm surprised by how big this cake is! And I feel neutral to happy/pleased/positive about that.

or "Das ist ja ein großer Kuchen."

-> stress on "ist": Emphasising that I think we both know that the cake is big.

or similarly: "Das ist ja ein schöner Kuchen, aber viel zu groß!"

-> I'll hand it to you, that cake is nice, but come on, it's way too large! (speaker is using 'ja' to start with an appeasing statement, before disagreeing/giving a new consideration)

einmal/mal: "Das ist mal ein großer Kuchen!"

-> What a pleasant surprise, this is a big cake for once. (Speaker is being nice here)

aber: "Das ist aber ein großer Kuchen."

-> stress on "das": I'm surprised by how big this cake is!

schon: "Das ist schon ein großer Kuchen."

-> Despite what anyone else might say, that cake is big.

denn: "Ist es denn ein großer Kuchen?"

-> I'm especially interested whether the cake is big 👀

vielleicht: "Das ist vielleicht ein großer Kuchen!"

-> Wow, that is one big cake!

Imperatives:

doch: "Bestell doch einen Kuchen."

-> Why don't you order a cake? (speaker gives more or less obvious advice)

halt: Bestell halt einen Kuchen!

->Just order a cake. It's the obvious solution.

mal: Bestellst du mal einen Kuchen?

-> I can't order a cake myself right now, so could you do it for me?

or

-> Could you finally order a cake, please? We're waiting. (especially: "Bestellst du endlich mal einen Kuchen?")

eben:

eh: "Nimm dir doch ein Stück. Ich würde mich freuen und der Kuchen ist eh zu groß."

-> Come on, take a slice. I'd be happy and the cake is too big, anyway.

ruhig: "Fang ruhig an zu essen."

-> Go ahead, you can start eating. I really don't mind.

schon: Fang schon an zu essen!

-> Eat something already!

ja: Und bring ja Kuchen zur Feier mit!

-> You had better bring cake to the party!

Additional meanings that weren't covered in the previous examples:

schon: Wie groß kann der Kuchen schon sein?

-> How big can the cake be? (speaker is implying the cake can't be all that big -> implies irrelevance)

schon: Den Kuchen wird schon keiner essen.

-> Despite your/anyone's worries, I don't think anyone will eat the cake.

Combinations:

Yes! You can combine them to your heart's content!

"Das ist ja vielleicht mal ein großer Kuchen!"

Is a perfectly normal sentence in spoken German. And it means:

"That is yes maybe once a big cake."

"Wow, that is one big cake!"

I might write a follow-up post on how exactly to combine them! Although you can find it all in the book "Modalpartikeln und ihre Kombinationen" by Maria Thurmair. [2]

Literature

[1] Fabian Bross: German modal particles and the common ground. (PDF; 1,6 MB). In: Helikon. A Multidisciplinary Online Journal, 2, 2012, S. 182–209. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230881580_German_modal_particles_and_the_common_ground

[2] Maria Thurmair: Modalpartikeln und ihre Kombinationen. (PDF; 27 MB) Max Niemeyer Verlag, Tübingen 1989, ISBN 3-484-30223-2. http://epub.uni-regensburg.de/25039/1/ubr13058_ocr.pdf

[julietherebel]

Random Gedanke:

"Frauen sind wie Speck"