#duffergate

[perfectly-wrong-horribly-right]

Stranger Things Season 5 and The First Shadow

So, I've been doing a lot of thinking about 'The First Shadow' and how a lot of the promo and interviews made it seem important to season five, and how after that fake-ass "finale" the Duffers suddenly changed their tune. I wanted to do a deep-dive into what that's all about.

'The First Shadow', written by Kate Trefry, is based on a story written by the Duffers, Trefry, and Jack Thorne. Trefry said the play is "totally integrated" into the show:

She also said TFS is a "missing puzzle piece":

Hm, that sounds familiar...

Oh yeah, when Hopper said this while looking directly at us! 👁️👁️

Netflix called 'The First Shadow' the "beginning of the end" and teased it held the "key to the end":

That article was originally published on December 15, 2023, but interestingly enough, it appears to be last edited on the same day ST5 Volume 1 aired...

That is nearly two years later. Why would they do that? Unless 'The First Shadow' is important to season five, and they want us to know it!

After the "finale", the fans who did see the play were upset because of all the hype it got and how important to season five they thought it would be. The Duffers claimed they realized not everyone would be able to see it, so they left out a bunch of context from the play:

Which contradicts everything above and also a Hollywood Reporter interview from April 2025:

So, everything "links and connects" and sets up "big reveals" (plural) for season five. Although the only "big reveal" that comes to mind, that ties into both ST5 and TFS, was the fact that Henry is possessed by the Mind Flayer and has been for most of his life. Which doesn't really seem like a setup for a big reveal since it was already revealed in the play.

But seriously, why write an original story, then have one of your writers—who you wrote that story with—write a play about it while simultaneously writing two seasons?

Just for you to decide, not everyone can go see the play, so we gotta make sure it's not actually important to season five? Something doesn't add up here. Also, everyone could have seen the play had you recorded it and released it on Netflix, but they decided to do that after the "finale". Hm, why would they do that? I wonder if they changed something. They've already changed the play before; the West End and Broadway versions are both different.

The Duffers said the play was supposed to explore Henry's humanity:

Why bother setting up a redemption arc just to not follow through and brutally kill him instead?

The main question asked in 'The First Shadow' is: "Can love defeat fear?" But love didn't win, it didn't save Henry. He thought Patty was dead, but she isn't. Why tell the audience that she's alive at the end just to do nothing with that?

Unless they are going to do something, and there is more to ST5 than we currently have!

[leobean130]

i think a majority of the people with absolutely no byler doubt and complete trust in the duffers are people who have been there since season 1. the duffers are trying to fuck with us so we can all be wowed in the finale

[men-in-the-moon]

NO because I hate when the Robin and Will tunnel scene happened I knew EXACTLY what the Duffers were about to do. I hate that as soon as Robin started talking about Tammy I KNEW what that meant. Did it make any fucking sense in the context leading up to this point? Did it support a singular ounce of the queer lore the Duffers themselves planted between seasons 1 and 5? NO!

So how did I know????

Because theres no other fucking reason why they would even bring up Tammy fucking Thompson if not to prepare for Will's love for Mike to be unrequited. For Will's love to be squashed. They wanted Robin to be the one to let Will down easy, to prevent Will from even having the OPPORTUNITY to come out to Mike about his feelings.

BUT WHYYY WOULD THEY DO THAT AFTER SETTING EVERYTHING UP SO BEAUTIFULLY?

Read my fucking batshit insane theory under the cut.

Why would they do that?? Because the Duffers clearly became uncomfortable with the fandom's take on Mike. We analzyed. We saw things they didn't put there. We called him Mike Queerler. And that made them uncomfortable.

That was proved to me in that interview where they called our voices "noise". They clearly had set out to tell a straight story, regardless of how GAY they wrote their characters to be. And this is further supported by this concept that I've seen a few people bring up about literary anaylsis. There's an ancient Tumblr post that details the discourse on "sometimes the curtains are just blue."

(this isnt the exact post but it does address what I'm talking about)

I swear it was a post originally written by a junior high student who didn't want to find the deeper meaning in classic texts for a school project. Not wanting to do the fucking assignment they plead that surely Shapespeare's writing never has any deeper meaning than the surface level. Surely word choice is never intentional or hold greater value. Surely most stories must be taken at face value and not suffer through deep intellectual analysis.

That Tumblr user wanted the curtains to just be blue.

They didn't want there to be any deeper meaning because they themselves could. not. see. it.

Are the curtains just blue sometimes? No. The author wrote them to be blue for a reason.

WHETHER IT WAS A CONSCIOUS CHOICE OR NOT. I will die on this hill.

Because whether an author writes a small detail to drive the story forward or not, they decided to write that detail in the first place. They could have made the curtains blue just because they like the color blue, sure, but an intellectual reader is going to pick up on that detail and go wild. THEY are going to pick apart that detail until it makes sense.

The author might not even be conscious of why they detailed a scene to have specifically blue curtains, but the reader is going to make it make sense if they care enough to.

-The writer might not notice that BLUE is on their mind because they just recently got a divorce and so much of their home decor remains to be blue, and they hate that shade of blue but they are still surrounded by it while writing their antagonist's introduction, and they write their bedroom curtains to be blue.

-They might write their curtains to be blue because their childhood home had blue curtains.

-They might write the curtains to be blue because they're sitting by the ocean with a blueberry seltzer under the blue sky as stunning blue waves carry surfers on blue surf boards right on by the fucking writer's beach chair.

They might not be conscious of why such minute details ended up in their story, but there is a reason. Even if their reasoning is "it just made sense" for the setting, the time period, or the context.

The curtains are never just blue.

And whether you're the reader or the writer, if you don't see WHY the curtains are blue? It's either because you don't want to see it, or you're too fucking illiterate to see it.

So the Duffers wrote a queer story that was set up to be groundbreaking, and they didn't even see it. They didn't see it, and once the fandom got loud about how gay their story was, they had to mitigate. They had to block out the noise from our literary analysis and just 'tell the story they intended to tell from the start'. And why wouldn't they want their story to be gay from the start? Well, thats up to your interpretation.

LOL but If you're asking me? If Mike truly is a poorly written self insert, then that tells me everything I needed to know.

My batshit theory is that one of the Duffers had a queer friend growing up, and that queer friend ended up having a crush on one of them. And while they may not admit to it, that fact made them uncomfortable. "Oh but they gave Will such a great ending" bullshit. Why do I think this? Because we see time and time again in the Duffer's storytelling that they are fueled by guilt. Maybe this hypothetical queer friend they had went through something tragic. Maybe they wanted to give this fake hypothetical queer friend a good ending even though they didn't get one in real life. If this entirely fake hypothetical queer friend Actually came out to them and expressed how they truly felt? I think, in reality, whatever Vecna showed Will was what actually happened in response to this super totally fake theoretical gay best friend.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

My theory is one of the Duffer's childhood friends had a crush on them, they confessed their GAY feelings to them, the brother(s) didn't reciprocate, and in fact SHAMED their gay friend for having gay feelings for them, and cast them away. And idk maybe that ex-friend went off to kill themselves or die from aids. Which are things that actually, factually, 100% happened in the 80s and 90s (and sometimes EVEN NOW ACTUALLY).......

To me, an experience like this is 100% feasible. And the Duffer's response would be guilt. BUT SINCE THEY'RE SHITTY they would think whoa, sucks we had to reject our friend's feelings like that, too bad we're straight and are going to create a story based on him through the eyes of a straight person! That would surely honor our ex gay best friend!

I feel like nothing else makes this make sense. Its also a fucking canon event in my opinion that Mike wrote the whole story as one of his campigns, because in that scenario Mike would have written Will's gay feelings into the story. There's a post that points that out and has Will respond like "hah okay but why did you make my character gay for you...". Also my theory addresses the fact that Will's whole arc is to come out and just accept himself. Bc if one of the Duffers actually had a gay-love-confession-on-the-receiving-side-experience then they would 1000% believe their fake ex gay friend would still be alive if they just accepted themselves in the first place and not make things awkward when they decided to come out and confess his love for them.

Because DUH of course they had to REJECT him, and he just couldn't deal with it and HAD to go kill himself.

Am I making any fucking sense at all here.

Anyways.

I called it from the moment Robin was forced to bring up Tammy. Because I HAVE BEEN on the side of loving someone 'straight' who just couldn't find the kindness in their heart to let me down easy. They immediately made things awkward, shot me down, and made it a mission to get the fuck out of my life in the most non-graceful way possible. They got insecure. Much like how I theorize Ross Duffer felt insecure when the fandom started accusing his self insert of being gay. I think the Duffers wrote the beginning of the series with their heart a little too on their sleeve.

Because the fandom sees what the fandom sees.

We analyzed what was already there.

And to round out my totally-fake-hypothetical-ex-gay-best-friend theory, I'd bet a thousand bucks that their childhood friend trusted them with his feelings because he saw that his feelings were actually being returned. Much like how I saw the genuine love and affection my 'straight' best friend (who came out as pan afterwards btw) had towards me. Much like how we see Mike reciprocating Will's feelings from episode fucking one.

But.

Some people just can't affront their feelings like other people can. I'm never afraid of expressing my feelings. I'm not afraid of rejection. Its just heartbreaking to see someone else's insecurities completely dismantle a genuine connection for no reason.....

And thats my theory. Ross (or Matt) Duffer had a gay best friend confess to them in their youth and they rejected that poor boy so bad that they never spoke again. And they still aren't at the point of being able to address those feelings or properly cope with the trauma of loss. Is this fucking insane? YEAH.

But like I fucking said.

The curtains are never just fucking blue.

[perfectly-wrong-horribly-right]

The First Shadow: Release Date & Potential Changes

edit: I was wrong about the release date but that doesn't mean I'm wrong about them changing the play✌️

Update: I think I figured out what's being added to 'The First Shadow'!

I think The First Shadow is going to drop on Netflix on March 22, and not only that, but I think they changed some things. Let's get into it!

March 22 is Henry's birthday, and 'The First Shadow' is literally the Henry Creel play, so it's pretty obvious. Also, March 22 falls on a Sunday this year, and Netflix tends to release new content on weekends, so it's a pretty good bet. And we all know March 22 is a pretty important date in Stranger Things, so it makes sense they will do something that day.

As for why I think there will be changes to 'The First Shadow', I have a few reasons:

After the play first came out, the Duffers kept saying it was important to see the play to understand ST5. I think that was a half-truth, because with the season 5 we have currently, that's not true. I mean, sure, it adds some context, but like be serious. Also, they could have put it on Netflix before the season started airing, but they chose not to wonder why. They're releasing it now because of what they said: you need to see it to understand what comes next.

I already suspected there would be more coming before they announced they were filming the play, but that really solidified it for me. Especially because it took a whole week with no audiences, that's not common. Usually, when a show is filmed, it is in front of an audience, and it certainly doesn't take more than 2 or 3 days. Unless they needed the week because they were rehearsing new material for Netflix, then continued the show as usual after filming so as not to spoil the surprise.

And, no, they didn't take a break either:

That's Patty's actress responding to a fan online

In 'Behind the Curtain' (TFS doc), Kate Trefry (writer) said the Duffers told her to cut about 80% of what she initially wrote for the play to avoid "spoilers" for ST5.

[29:06]

I bet they put back what was originally cut.

This is probably a side note, but Kate spoke highly of the Duffers throughout the doc and even called them "narrative geniuses". I don't think she went out of her way to sing their praises if she didn't honestly mean it. She also seemed really proud of the work she did on ST5 and said she "totally fucking delivered".

Also, in the documentary, the Duffers talk about how the play and the show are "building to a surprising and emotional conclusion."

[6:22]

surprising you say👀

And yet, that's the finale we got? I don't buy it for one second. They have been working on season 5 since around the same time as season 4. And, no, I don't believe they started filming ST5 with an unfinished script for the finale, there's no way Netflix would allow that for one of their biggest shows. They had plenty of time to give us a good final season to a good show. What we currently have is only the end of beginning.

Stay Tuned & Don't Touch That Dial!

[perfectly-wrong-horribly-right]

They're Going to "George Lucas" It

Update: I want to add May 13th as a deadline for an announcement! That's when the Duffer Brothers have an interview addressing ST5 and the "finale"; I don't think they would set it for this date if they weren't planning on announcing anything before or on that day.

In a previous post, I talked a little bit about interactive films and how they take several months, or even longer, for programming/development to be completed. Night Trap (1992) took at least six months, and Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018) took eight. ST5 Volume 1 was released on November 26. I think it's safe to assume that's when they were finally able to dedicate more time to working on the interactive film. Because of how long interactive films take, they didn't have a lot of time before while they were working on the rest of the season—what we currently have.

Both the complete series box set and the complete season five scripts will be released in July, which leads me to believe ST5 will be released in full long before then. I'm also pretty sure 'Tales from '85' being released on the same day as New Coke—April 23rd—is a red herring. They obviously want us to pay attention to it so we'll come to the conclusion the rest of the season will be released on the same day New Coke was discontinued: July 11th. People hated the remake (TF85) and demanded the original (ST5).

Another reason I think season five will be completely released before July is because of a book I found at Target.

Stranger Things: The Official Story behind the Legendary Series

The author, Gina McIntyre, has written about Stranger Things before and could be someone the Duffers trust to keep a secret. The book is about the making of Stranger Things and takes readers behind the scenes. Why make the ST5 "documentary" or the behind the scenes content on Youtube then? I also noticed the description is short and vague, unlike her other books:

You'd think that for a show as big as Stranger Things, the description would have more to say...

The book will be released on June 30. It would be pretty wild if they released this book before giving us the complete season.

As for when I think they'll release it, they already told us!

May the 4th Be With You

May is six months from November, plenty of time for them to work on the interactive film!

And they said they're going to "George Lucas" it:

Pretty straightforward, they're going to release it on May 22nd. And what better day to announce it than on May 4th, Star Wars Day?

I also think it's worth noting The Empire Strikes Back was released on May 21st, so they could announce it on the 21st, then release it on the 22nd. Bandersnatch was announced the day before its release, so it's not unheard of.

The best place to hide something is in plain sight, after all!

[perfectly-wrong-horribly-right]

Why the Duffers Behavior After Season 5 Points to an Interactive Film

This isn't date speculation like some of my other posts. I wanted to make a post about how the Duffers' apparent personality change, after the "finale", is indicative of an interactive film. The change in how they present themselves feels sudden; it's really unnatural, that's why I can't help but feel like there's a reason for it.

They have essentially ruined their images by framing themselves as incompetent, self-entitled jerks who don't care about their fans or show. But to anyone who has kept up with the show and is familiar with their presence over the years, that's very out of character. They are socially awkward nerds, not dumb jerks. In fact, many crew members have been with Stranger Things since the early seasons. Paul Dichter has been with the show since season one, Kate Trefry since season two, and Amy Parris joined in season three.

I doubt many, if any, of the cast or crew would continue to work on the show if they didn't like working with the Duffers. They would've looked for work somewhere else, and Stranger Things would not have lasted as long as it has. It's obvious to me that the Duffers do, in fact, care about the show and the people who work on it. They use practical effects and sets whenever possible, whereas most big shows and movies these days usually use CGI/AI.

The Variety Article

There's a Variety article from October 2025 that I highly recommend you check out! Their personalities are completely different in this interview than in any other after the "finale". And no, they weren't pretending to not be stupid people for ten years without anyone noticing something was off. They have been framing themselves as incompetent and detached so people would stop asking questions they can't answer yet. Once you think someone is completely stupid and out-of-touch, you pretty much just try to ignore them and move on. It's not a perfect strategy, but it didn't not work.

A lot of the cast & crew basically sing their praises and talk about how hard-working and dedicated the Duffers are to Stranger Things. The following is a quote from David Harbour:

So, why the Jekyll and Hyde routine? Simple: they need more time with less attention.

It's an Interactive Film

This has pretty much been established already, but I digress. Interactive films take a while to get done, especially if they're complex. In the Variety article I mentioned, Paul Dichter and Kate Trefry had this exchange:

Sounds like a lot of different choices and outcomes, perfect for an interactive film!

In a different Variety article the Duffers were asked about Will's birthday and said this:

So, let me get this straight: your memory isn't good and you forgot his birthday, but you remember when you wrote the date?

Actually, you do have people who keep track of that stuff—story editors! You know, like Paul Dichter and Kate Trefry, for example.

Also, timelines you say👀. Are interactive films not literally about making choices that change the story, subsequently creating multiple timelines?!?!

Speaking of interactive films, I got curious and did a little research and found some pretty interesting stuff.

Night Trap (1992)

Night Trap was shot on 35mm film in 1987. Development took about six months, and editing took a few more. Before the film could be released, however, Hasbro canceled the release of the Control-Vision (game console) in 1989. This prompted Tom Zito (executive producer) to found Digital Pictures to complete the film. Night Trap was completed and later released in November 1992.

Fun fact: Zito originally wanted to make an interactive film based on the 'Nightmare on Elm Street' series!

Mr. Payback: An Interactive Movie (1995)

This was a sci-fi/action/comedy that was actually written and directed by Bob Gale. He is a co-writer and co-producer of the 'Back to the Future' trilogy. The film is considered lost media, as it was never released outside of movie theaters.

Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018)

Bandersnatch wasn't even announced until December 27, the day before its release. Netflix didn't even confirm it was interactive until after it was released. Production took eight months, and Netflix required assets to be locked in by the end of November 2018—a month before its release. Music was essential for the film (the Duffers said this about ST5); the viewer could even choose what music played at times throughout the film.

So, yeah, that's why this has been going on for so long. But since they were able to start putting out season 5, they've been able to dedicate more time than they previously had to the interactive film, which takes several months at least, depending on how much there is and how much was already done prior to what we currently have for season 5.

This isn't necessarily in defense of the Duffers, but I did want to analyze and understand what they're doing and why, and it all ties in beautifully to bandersnatchgate!

[perfectly-wrong-horribly-right]

The "Untitled Live-Action Spin-Off" is The First Shadow 2.0

Previously, I made a post about why I think 'The First Shadow' was changed for the pro-shot. At the time, I didn't have any theories on what exactly would be changed, but since then I found out about an "untitled live-action spin-off series" set in the Stranger Things universe, and after looking into it, I realized: this is what is being added to 'The First Shadow'. Now, as for whether or not anything else is being added or changed, I don't know, but I'm convinced this is going to be included.

Before season 5 started airing, the Duffers said it "comes full circle" and they tried "not to leave any loose ends"

"people who are watching in the future won't mind about the delays"👀

Why would they say they tried not to leave loose ends, knowing the "finale" would leave questions unanswered and that they already had a "spin-off series" in the works to address them? It doesn't make any sense!

The alleged "spin-off" takes place in a different town, includes new characters, and features a completely different mythology. Oh, and it's set in a different decade!

"Hopefully it's something announced soon-ish."

That article was published on December 25, 2025, and still the "spin-off" has no title, unless...

'The First Shadow' pro-shot was announced on February 10, 2026. Less than two months later!

The "spin-off" will somehow answer questions raised in the "finale" and explore more of Henry's past—specifically the mysterious rock connected to his powers and the Mind Flayer.

The only way this makes sense is if it's a prequel. But we already have a prequel: 'The First Shadow'. So, what is this? A prequel to a prequel that touches on lore the aforementioned prequel already covers? Why bother going through the trouble of creating a whole new show when you can just add the extra lore to the preexisting prequel?

Unless, it's not a spin-off; it's what's being added to 'The First Shadow'. Think about it: the "spin-off" takes place in a town that isn't Hawkins, and Henry is from Nevada. There are new characters and the uncovering more about the mystery rock—the same rock that was being studied in a lab by Dr. Brenner in Nevada, but one of Brenner's scientists defected, stole the rock and ended up in the cave system where Henry found him.

And every time I look for upcoming Netflix projects, TFS is nowhere to be seen, but do you know what is? That's right, the "untitled spin-off"! Notice how we have no official promo or release date for 'The First Shadow' on Netflix? But do you know what is getting a lot of promo? 'Tales from '85'! I'm pretty sure there's a connection there.

starting new tags: #tfsgate & #duffergate #tfsgate is for my theory that 'The First Shadow' is a big piece of the cg/lwg puzzle #duffergate is for the Duffers behavior—while and after ST5 aired—as well as all the lying they've been doing and what they're really up to I'm gonna go back and add them to my other TFS/Duffer behavior posts as well!