#elden ring speculation

[eyestrain-addict]

Some interesting visual story telling in messmers clinic I noticed

Perfumers are essentially the doctors of the lands between (and honestly I just really like the worldbuilding of the perfumers. There's something so very human about all their areas and stuff so when I saw this little bit of set dressing in the world I got vv excited) you can see all the accoutrement of the perfumers within the 'clinic', you even get a perfume ash of war. But there are no perfumers here. Not even any of the pages whom assist them. It's been abandoned.

This is such a amazing visual metaphor to me. To remind the viewer of something, and then the absence of said thing is incredibly obvious. (Honestly I'm of the opinion the perfumers have some of the best visual storytelling in the game, but I can't really put it into words because I just love it so much. The fact their areas are full of little objects and really creative worldbuilding that reminds you 'oh this is an entirely different culture' aaaaaa I just love it so much. Their building in leyndell is one of my favorites it feels like a place designed to be lived and worked in. Sorry anyway back to the point-)

If we believe that Queen Marikas war was a holy-revenge-fueled war in nature (which I have doubts about because the irl crusades were about conquest, disguised as a holy war to rally the peoples support but again not my point here) then these are the people she is fighting to avenge. But as the crusade raged on, the perfumers turned their healing sprays into mists of poison and fire. The clinic was abandoned, as the pain the perfumers could inflict was more important to the crusade. It's an amazing metaphor of how often violence fueled by revenge is never truly about justice or healing, or if it ever was can easily lose sight of their original goal. Marikas purge helped no one, no even her own people. Perhaps that's why the Black Knife Assassins (whom were notably all women and numen with close ties to Marika) sought to disrupt her Order. They knew better than anyone else it was not justice which led Marikas actions.

Maybe I'll make another post of how I think the real life history of the crusades factors into the plot of the DLC. But I thought this was a cool detail.

[veliatra]

Hi. Quick talk about the dlc.

Might be stupid, but Radahn in second phase is kinda a mirror to Godfrey first phase.

I don't know what to do with this information other than Miquella is Radahn's Serosh in a way to supress him.

Bye.

[the-odd-laundromat]

On Miquella, St. Trina, and Spirits

Warning, this is a fairly long post. Best buckle up.

I've started to let my imagination wander of late about Miquella, St. Trina, and spirit ashes within the lore of Elden Ring and its DLC. I made this for fun and I don't intend it in serious spirit. If this doesn't line up with your own theories or headcanons, that's cool. There are billions of people on the planet, and some of us are bound to disagree. Let's all be civil about it, please. (Do note this is just my personal blog, not dedicated exclusively to ER).

My theory is this: Apart from sleep (through St. Trina), Unalloyed Gold and the Haligtree, Miquella holds dominion over spirits; specifically Torrent, Spirit Ashes and spirit bosses you fight.

Miquella fits, if abstractly, into Elden Ring's mythological basis. He parallels the god Baldr from Norse myth, already an influence on Elden Ring (e.g., The Erdtree = Yggdrasil) in some ways: Baldr was associated with light and all good things, and was specifically noted to be beloved by all. Baldr's death (though that's Godwyn in ER) triggers Ragnarok. Baldr is among the gods who survive and return to a renewed, clean-slate world (Miquella wants to create a new world order with the Haligtree).

Now, I'll go out on a limb and propose that he also parallels Apollo of Greek myth. Apollo wasn't specifically beloved by all (I don't think), but he was significantly venerated, comparably to big-shots like Zeus, Athena, Aphrodite, and Hermes. He's also associated with light (one of his most common epithets is Phoebus Apollo, meaning Shining or Radiant Apollo), and is a twin (granted, Apollo and Artemis are rather different to Miq and Malenia). In the DLC trailer, Miquella glows, and the camera cuts immediately to a bright light bathing the strangler-fig tree (nature unknown) from behind.

Now comes the fun part: The connection between music, death, and sleep. Apollo is also famously a god of music, and in Elden Ring, spirits are also associated with it. You summon spirits in combat with the Spirit-Calling Bell, and Melina gives you the Spectral Steed Whistle to summon Torrent (who some speculate Miquella is the "original master" of, as supported by promotional art for the DLC). Curiously, Miquella's alter ego St. Trina is also associated with music: One of their titles is Saint Trina of the Cradlesong, and as mentioned in a cut quest, Miquella, as St. Trina, supposedly sang a lullaby to the Frenzied Flame Merchants to ease their suffering. To my knowledge, no other figure has such an association to music.

Fittingly for a game constantly trying to kill you, Elden Ring is in no shortage of death gods and suchlike figures. Maliketh and Godwyn may be considered death gods through their relation to Deathroot/the Rune of Death, you have the Deathbirds/Twinbird and the Gloam-Eyed Queen and the Ancestor Spirit, Ghostflame and Blackflame and the Frenzied Flame - heck, Malenia/the Scarlet Rot God could even qualify, as a harbinger of decay and apocalypse. My proposition is that Miquella is or will become another death god, but of merciful death, of deathlike sleep and the peaceful dream of oblivion - hence his connection to the Shadow Realm. And potentially the first spirit tuner - Hewg tutors Roderika because he's "indebted to a spirit tuner [he] met long ago". After all, in Greek mythology, Sleep (Hypnos) is brother to Death (Thanatos).

Are there holes in this? Yeah, probably. Will the DLC canon crush this theory under Messmer's open-toed cowboy boots? Most definitely. That's okay. Part of the fun of speculation is seeing just how crazy you can get with it. Sorry this is so long-winded. I hope you enjoyed this deranged romp through the mythology of this super cool video game.

[ishaslife]

Who is Messmer?

I really think that Messmer is Marika's exiled son or something. Radagon and her may have been involved from wayyy before and likely had a son in secret or he's an offshoot of the two of them when they merged (if they weren't already one being) and dude went on to do his own thing. Because if you remember, in one of Marika's echos, she's talking to her demigod kids and she's basically saying that they must strive to become a lord or even a god and if they failed to do either, they will be sacrificed.

I believe Marika had many, many more children yet only those who succeeded in making something of themselves were made demigods and were written about. Just like Melina who is also likely Marika's daughter and I definitely think, so is Messmer. A bit of a stretch, but he might just be her brother or even twin. Both of them have an eye that's shut, they are both associated with fire/burning and both of them have been removed from history. Their origins are shrouded in mystery, almost as if the world didn't want them to be remembered or recorded.

Perhaps Messmer succeeded in becoming one of the demigod children but to an extent where he attempted to usurp the erdtree order with one of the serpent as there is say that there is a forgotten serpent diety in Mt. Gelmir. This may the diety Rykard was in search of when he found the God-devouring serpent and assumed that to be the "outer" God.

My assumption is: Messmer was captured by his mother's forces and instead of being killed or sacrificed (probably because they thought that they could use his skills), he was exiled, his powers and strength being put to use in another land where he would serve his punishment by killing those robbed of the "grace of gold." Which is what he is continuing when we will meet him in the DLC. He sees us as being stripped of its grace because the influence of the greater will more or less no longer exists, we have established an entirely new order but Messmer doesn't know that.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is Marika's son as he basically mocks his mother's "decision" to have someone like us made lord, someone without grace.

[spoookiepie]

Honestly the fact that Ranni only shows any form of affection/protectiveness for Renalla is such an interesting character tell.

She doesn’t really talk about her family much, and certainly doesn’t reveal how she feels about them. One even has to die for her plans to succeed and while we never know if that saddens her or not, she doesn’t hesitate in seeing it happen.

But Renalla…

Ranni might not speak of her family much, but her mother is the only one she goes out of her way to protect from the player. Her brothers both die at our hands, but Ranni won’t allow the same to happen to Renalla. And that perhaps speaks volumes more than words could

[sordidbask]

I have never seen a more DLC-bait statement than "Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess."

If it doesn't come to pass after such hype and we don't get to see Malenia return for a hypothetical Miquella DLC, I'll throw myself off the balcony.

[infobotbot]

maybe Messmer the impaler is the product of immaculate conception, a virgin mary situation

[lorddoom01]

The Lord of Frenzied Flame and Elden Ring 2

The thing I loved the most about the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending of Elden Ring is the potential of what comes next. Cause it isn't just the world is burning down and Melina is going to hunt you down. These are not the only forces in the world still very much active in this apocalyptic setting. There are enough players remaining (even after killing all the bosses, actually especially afterwards) you could have another major conflict on par with the Shattering to occur as backdrop lore to a new Elden Ring game.

Malenia, depending on how you view her lore, could revive as a fully fledged Goddess of Rot. A half corrupted Miquella could entirely awaken (also as a full fledged god). Ranni the Witch still lives and seeks to bring about her Age of Stars. The giant Albinauric Phillia could awaken as well and whatever plan her kind have could begin as well. And let us not forget Godwyn, the Prince of the Undead. And of course Melina, the Deliverer of Destined Death.

And while yes most of these are still factors in the other endings, none of those are the end of the world. This ending would undoubtedly force all these factions to unify against your character or burn before you. It not only displays how powerful the Lord of Frenzied Flame could be, but also how desperate some of these actors are.

I can already picture Miquella being the one who sets out to unify these forces, while Ranni would try to keep them fractured. Miquella has always been presented as the best person in all of Elden Ring. Even though people unnaturally fall in love with him, he never seems to exploit this power and honestly cares for everyone. Meanwhile Ranni is a schemer, to the extent she might have had her trusted friends and advisors executed. She would undoubtedly try to stir up infighting, so once the Lord of Frenzied Flame is beaten, they would weaken themselves enough that she could take over.

The possibilities for the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending are so tantalizing for me. It is like the unspoken lore of the Shattering War. There is just so much to learn and explore with those settings. And I highly doubt the DLC will cover these moments, I do hope any future Elden Ring games do.