#endgame questions

[hailing-stars]

I really wanna know if when Tony snapped, he snapped every version of Thanos from every possible timeline, because if he didn’t, most of the multiverses are kind of doomed 

[agentem]

Endgame questions: Sharon Carter, Peggy Carter, Team Carters, some Steve stuff, SHIELD, some Bucky and Sam

I feel like I should just get the Sharon stuff out of the way. Readers, if you are new, I love Sharon Carter--mostly from the comics because she never had much to do in the movies. I also love Peggy Carter because, originally, Stan Lee had written them as sisters and I fucking LOVE SISTER RELATIONSHIPS (see future post on Gamora and Nebula).

Now, of course, they are great aunt and grand niece (that is Peggy is Sharon’s grandparent’s--I believe, grandfather Michael if Agent Carter is still canon--sibling.)

Markus and McFeely (who WROTE these movies) said Sharon was originally LIVING with Steve while he was on the run in Infinity War and that she was cut (”she was cut” is Sharon’s whole MCU history). I say that because she was originally the “female lead” of CATWS and was cut, in favor of Black Widow. She was originally part of “Team Captain America” and part of the airport battle in CAWC, but was cut in favor of Ant-Man/Spider-man happening. (This had to do with the Sony deal happening or not, which is neither here nor there.)

But the point is, she is a character that I care about. I don’t necessarily need her and Steve to be together in the comics. Some of my fave Sharon comics are her teaming with Black Widow or other Agents of SHIELD.

Anyway, back to them “living together.” I don’t think that is canon because if it is, it is fucking dark. It’s one thing to have kissed your grand-niece it’s another thing to have fucked her a bunch of times and had five years of a stable relationship with her from the time it started in CACW.

I HOPE he kissed her and then she fucking moved on with her life. She’s fucking thriving at the CIA. I hope she survived the Snap and maybe got involved with Nick Fury’s underground SHIELD. I mean, they mention Button Bob (whose real name I never remember) at the end of Infinity War as someone who is still on Fury’s team. He was also in Age of Ultron. I would’ve loved to have seen Sharon in Age of Ultron or mentioned as still a SHIELD agent in Infinity War.

Because SHIELD is goddamned important to her. She wanted to be like Peggy. She joined up despite her family’s protests (this is mentioned off-hand in CW) and Peggy was the only one who supported her. Those two had a familial relationship where Peggy mentored her and served as a guide for her career.

You know, what? Fuck it, I’m just going to headcanon that once Fury and Maria Hill are Snapped, Sharon is in-charge of SHIELD. (I think this probably conflicts with the TV show I haven’t watched since Simmons got stuck on that weird planet?) But I don’t give a fuck because Sharon needs to get something.

I am also conflicted as to whether going back to being with Peggy is “moving on” or “going back” for Steve. I think it is the latter, honestly. Like he got jealous that Tony got to have a family? They seem to have conflated “moving on” with “getting a life” in the film. But Nat talks about having a life with the Avengers. That is what I thought Steve had.

Like, okay maybe he wasn’t living with Sharon Carter for the last ten years. (Five on the run, five after the Snap). But is not having a girlfriend or children the worst thing in the world?

As an asexual childless individual, I don’t really understand. He seemed to rely on Nat and Sam and together they were trying to help Bucky, who is really just beginning his healing process in Wakanda when they PULL HIM OUT to join this fight.

I know a lot of Stucky fans are really bummed. I get that. The Russos always said that since they were brothers, they were attracted to the Steve/Bucky narrative as a brother story. (See above where I am super into sister stories, so I get that.) But I also know that a HUGE part of the audience did not read it as they saw it. And they know that. They totally swerved into it in CACW and were certainly aware of the backlash against the kiss with Sharon.

Even if the audience did read it as the Russos intended (and I don’t think creator intent is the same as what comes across): would Gamora abandon Nebula? Would Thor leave Loki? Would Pietro leave Wanda?

I did see that Sebastian Stan played it like Bucky somehow knew that Steve was leaving for good. That is why they have the “you’re taking all the stupid with you” exchange that they had when Bucky went off to war. (Is marriage really like war?) And had him know who the old man was way before Sam did.

But Bucky being sort of okay with it doesn’t mean it is okay? At the end of CACW said his philosophy was that he believed in people. Specific people, sure. He had abandoned the Avengers for Bucky, really.

The only way I can explain it, is that he and Nat were a team, right? And now she’s dead and he’s like “holy shit, I gotta find that life Tony talked about fast!” And he made a split second, impulsive decision. (Which, again, I really think you should PLAN your time travel before you do it, and like discuss the possible unseen ramifications with other people.)

I guess this movie is about the Avengers needing grief counselors (like if Sam had been there, since I assume he is certified in some way to run meetings at the VA, none of this would have happened).

Pause for a moment to appreciate Sam Wilson more. (Do it, goddamn it.)

As for Peggy Carter, I am not sure if this is a yay Peggy for me? I was happy to see her. And I would have looked at her with the same heart eyes that Steve did through the window, let’s be honest.

But I also really loved the first season of Agent Carter. That scene where she says goodbye to him on the Brooklyn Bridge (which better not be covered in goddamn boats, New York) was really great. Hayley Atwell moved me and I believed she was going to find love elsewhere and be FINE.

Not only FINE but THRIVE.

I know the show suggested that her husband was Daniel Sousa, who I liked just fine. I had always hoped the show would be more ambitious and play with the Peggy and Gabriel Jones dynamic from the comics. It’s not a big part of the comics, but when Steve comes back and is IMMEDIATELY like “gross you are old” to Peggy. she is devastated and Sharon is like “what the fuck, you asshole.” (Don’t be so mean to my older sister!) But she eventually finds love with Gabriel Jones, the Howling Commando, and the white lady with the black man pisses Red Skull off, which is fun for me. So I still ship it (just because “fuck you, nazis!”).

I feel like the MCU version of Steve might have picked up with Peggy even though she was old in CATWS, except she had the Alzheimer’s. I personally think that would’ve been fucking rad to cast an older actress and have her be the love interest. (See upcoming post on ageism and women in Hollywood). But they didn’t go there. They cast a Sharon Carter but really did not follow through with it.

Anyway, in the movie Peggy bonds with Steve because he’s an outsider and they’ve both “had every door shut in their face.” I thought it would have been cool to deal with that in the actual context of 50s America. MCU Peggy is NOT American but she is expected to enforce American laws as they were at the time. How does she feel about that with regard to race in America? How is Gabe dealing with having every door shut in his face, even after becoming a distinguished war hero and personally capturing Armin Zola (who they just let wander around SHIELD?) after Captain America and Bucky were busy dying/crying on the train.

I don’t know, that is what I wanted season 2 of Agent Carter to be. They did cast an African American actor as a kind of pre-Hulk character but he turned out to be terrible, which was pretty problematic for me, and left me thinking well maybe Peggy with Daniel Sousa wouln’t be so bad.

Daniel is a disabled veteran, he can’t be having a super fun life.

Oh wait, now his wife is probably leaving him for a Super Soldier? That has gotta hurt. I feel bad for these characters who are kind of abandoned by the narrative.

OTOH, we got to see Jarvis in a movie! And Sam is Captain America now. Change that logo, Disney+. I wanna see “The New Captain America and the Winter Soldier” now.

Steve let me down but Sam doesn’t usually. Maybe I should move on.

[samwilsonsbabymama]

So The Snap™️

During Infinity War when The Snap™️ first happened, Thanos was fine afterwards. But then when he did it again, he nearly died...

So that would mean, the first time you use all the stones, you should be fine afterwards, right?

Then why when Bruce and Tony did it, they melted/died?

Shouldnt they have gotten a 'freebie' and been fine? Or did they melt/die because they were human?

[agentem]

Endgame Questions: Thor, PTSD, hammers

I knew something pretty bad was coming for Thor. Even Rocket knew he wasn’t emotionally okay in Infinity War. And then his “failure” to go for the head--which was mean of Thanos to taunt him with, of course it’s also mean to kill people so... whatever.

I knew he was going to blame himself. I felt pretty worried for him, because I really enjoyed Thor Ragnarok and his stuff in Infinity War.

His arc in Endgame made me really sad. I have a lot of alcoholics in my family--people who self medicate. We had joked initially that Thor was dealing with trauma by eating carbs and drinking beer (in the Carol/Stormbreaker scene).

I guess no mental health professionals in New Asgard, huh? Not even Korg could help. That’s rough. (IDK why I thought Korg could fix things, he seemed very emotionally attuned to Thor in Ragnarok. Maybe when Taika is writing it, he is.)

I actually think the “it’s okay to fail” idea is a very important one, especially for very high strung people. I went through a very rough time after getting rejected from some colleges I applied to. I can’t say precisely but that is probably when my depression started.

I wanted him to get more time with Frigga, for her to give him mom hugs and maybe cut his hair--that was gross. Personal hygiene and mental health are sometimes deeply interconnected. He needs to learn self care a bit.

Worried about  his “fatness” and drinking being played for laughs. If that was insulting, blah blah blah. Don’t know how I feel about the portrayal overall. By my personal experience was not laughing but like “OH NO!!!”

When he got Mjolnir back, I cried a little. That was a very sweet moment for him and his only real “win” in the film. (Besides mom hugs, I guess.) But I do think it is more realistic to not have someone immediately snap out of depression and substance abuse.

(I had to do work stuff and my train of thought got interrupted here.)

I do sort of hope we get a Thor 4. I know Chris Hemsworth has said he would like to do it and I was encouraged by the news that Taika had pitched something. I don’t really want him in the Guardians of the Galaxy group for long. (I think he and Star-Lord will drive each other crazy possibly but it also feels like he would really change that dynamic and though I haven’t really loved the GotG movies except for Nebula and Gamora, that doesn’t feel right.)

I don’t think Thor had much character arc, although there was a lot of plot in Thor: the Dark World and Avengers: Age of Ultron. The real star of the first film seemed to be Loki, so maybe Chris Hemsworth doesn’t feel he has really finished with the character, the way Downey and Evans appear to feel.

I want Thor to have another win, and for him to not take it for granted. He was kind of arrogant in Thor, I suppose. But his triumphs often seemed inevitable. Maybe that is a case for a lot of us when are still living with our parents and/or have a safety net of some kind.

Thor is alone now, and struggling. I kind of relate to that. (Right now, he might be that annoying guy who is turning up with a tight group of friends--the Guardians--like he has always been part of the group.)

[agentem]

Endgame Thoughts: Time Travel, Branch Realities, Souls and Infinity Stones

I do not understand the time travel in this movie at all. Granted, it’s tricky in every time travel movie I’ve seen. But (SPOILER CHOP)!

But the movie itself does not seem to have consistent logic. Like Bruce and Tony are convinced that changing the past won’t change the future. (The “Back to the Future” is a lie scene--which, it’s not so fuck you. That movie thought it out way more.)

Then Bruce goes to the Ancient One (clearly Tilda Swinton and Mark Ruffalo are friends), and she she says it doesn’t create new timelines, it creates “branch realities” which I guess are now just Doctor Strange’s problem?

Steve is sent back with Mjolnir, the stones, etc to “clip all the branches” but he fucking doesn’t. He creates more branch realities by starting one where he is with Peggy.

-- There’s one where Loki is out there with the Tesseract, I think

-- One where Thanos never Snapped at all since he’s dead in 2014 (I want to go to there) 

-- I think all the stones were put back. But we have no confirmation of that which is a bit troubling.

-- I am not even sure what else. My brain kind of hurts already.

And maybe this is too religious or whatever but what about their souls. I am here referencing a soul as some kind of central aspect of a person that is NOT their physical body and isn’t altered by time travel mess.

Isn’t Gamora’s soul, whether or not they now have a younger version with the Guardians, still trapped in the Soul stone? Isn’t Nat’s?

Bruce says he tried to bring Nat back but he couldn’t, like it was some kind of thing that can’t be undone. If that is true, then Gamora--no matter what happens to this version of her in life--is cursed to end up in Soul World. And we shouldn’t really worry about her at all because of like pre-destination or whatever.

I found the dichotomy of how Gamora’s soul is treated (yay! we got her back) to how Natasha’s is treated to be annoying. Like is it undoable or is it not? Is there a Branch Reality where Gamora is never sent to the soul stone and her soul is still free?

IF so why can’t Natasha be saved?

These two things are in direct opposition to each other. And I certainly hope James Gunn will address them in GotG 3. But it seems lazy to be like “oh those branch realities? Don’t worry about ‘em!” Gamora’s soul! Fine, we got a younger version so it’s basically like she never died. But also what happened to her can never be undone.

My brain hurts. I don’t like it.

The way I read it is that an essence of Gamora and Natasha are in Soul World (the reality inside the Soul Stone). And they had the Soul Stone and no one even, like, tried to use it or figure it out on its own after the fight. PS what was Steve’s reaction to seeing Red Skull again if he returned it?

I had actually been expecting the stones to be given to various characters. Maybe that is stupid. Strange obviously gets the Time Stone, and they would rebuild Vision with the Mind Stone (no mention of Vision really), I thought Wanda would get the Reality Stone because it is red and it manipulates reality like Wanda can in the comics... Maybe give Carol the Space stone so she can show up faster. Try to rebuild Nova with the Power stone? IDK.

And I thought Nebula (with the orange on her face meaning something more than a simple visual cue that this is the older one) would have the Soul Stone because she was still trying to save her sister.

But then put them back (except they didn’t, really see above) so the stones are destroyed in the main MCU reality, which means part of Vision can be rebuilt but not all of him. Part of Gamora can maybe exist. And Nat is dead forever?

Nobody tried to do anything to restore these three except Bruce for five seconds? And we’re supposed to take his word that it’s undoable when he also couldn’t do what Tony and/or Thanos did?

I know it’s “just a movie” but at this point I am having trouble buying into it. Or feeling like the creators know what they are doing.

[agentem]

Endgame Questions: Valkyrie, Wong, Okoye, communications, etc.

More questions, probably not important ones. Maybe I am not ready for those.

One of my favorite parts of the fight was Valkyrie on the pegasus. Part of me is still the little girl going, “horsie!” I think.

But where did Valkyrie get  her pegasus. Was it Aragorn her pegasus from the comics? The one, I assume, he was riding when she fought Hela? Did Strange conquer him back somehow? Can you conjure animal lives but not human ones?

Or maybe, did some Asgardian smuggle away a teeny tiny pegasus in the final conflict with Hela (because I didn’t see any grown pegasus on the rainbow bridge during that fight, so I’m going to have to assume baby pegasuses are, like, fit-in-your-pocket sized)?

Does that mean all of New Asgard has access to pegsuses (what is the plural, guys?). Or just Valkyries? Do they have only one? Do they have a lot?

If a lot, can I ride one?

Who came to Valkyrie, Okoye and the living and said, “Hey, get ready for battle. Thanos is coming back, but don’t tell the Avengers.”

I assume it had to be Wong. He says to Strange, “you wanted MORE?” like “why did you think we needed more people?” Which means he and Strange were in contact while Strange was dead. I believe I saw a spoiler about Wong being in contact with Strange’s soul once.

I gotta say, I kind of wish they had showed that scene. Maybe have Strange say something cryptic like “if I tell you then it won’t happen” like he said to Tony, which would explain why the Avengers have such damned bad communication skills.

I spoke about this a little in my Captain Marvel post but the Avengers need to stop relying on outdated technology and maybe send each other texts and shit. There was a scene with Nat, talking to Rhodey, Okoye, Carol and Nebula/Rocket at one point. So I was like, oh good they have fixed it.

BUT THEY DIDN’T.

They never called Captain Marvel to tell her what they were doing. My sister kept asking why they didn’t just send Captain Marvel, who seems nigh invulnerable, back in time to the fights to ensure something didn’t go wrong. And I was like, “IDK. She had other stuff to do?” But then why not send Professor Hulk, who is also pretty tough, back to each time location one at a time? Instead of doing it all at once? 

I gotta say I’m pretty upset with Nebula and Tony for not really specifying what they thought happened to Gamora--as it was heavily implied by Thanos that he “had to” sacrifice her to get the Soul stone. I find it worrying that it can be read that Nebula and Tony sent Clint and Natasha to Vormir specifically knowing that they do love each other as friends, and thus one of them could get the stone. None of the other pairings were really with friends or by usual groupings. (Rocket was not with Nebula, for example. Rhodey not with Tony.)

The movie itself implies that it is unknowingly done which makes no sense to me. Guys, talk about stuff. I know you’re not used to it but have a feelings circle.

The biggest hole is Wong. Banner and Tony met Wong. Won was presumably invited to Pepper and Tony’s wedding, as Tony promised in Infinity War. The Avengers NEVER went to him to do any reconnaissance on the Time Stone situation? Because Banner did not know Stephen Strange wasn’t yet the Sorcerer Supreme.

Was Wong not even allowed to speak to them? Or tell them basic facts? With access to all their tech they never Googled “Stephen Strange doctor”? I bet he has a Yelp page with terrible patient reviews somewhere that would indicate where he would’ve been in 2012.

Was Wong the one who contacted Okoye and Valkyrie then? To get Wakandans and Asgardians for the fight?

In that case, is Wong really in charge of the whole operation and we just never got to see him until the end?

Do I just want more Benedict Wong?

ETA: Also this is a not really apology to the Loki stans who insisted HE was on the pegasus in the leaked footage. I laughed at you. I know you were just seeing what you wanted to see, but... woman of color versus white man. They do not look alike.

I laughed at you a lot.

[agentem]

Endgame Questions: Rhodey, Rocket, War Destroyer,

I was hoping for more Rhodey in Endgame because he was part of the core group. Alas.

The toys had War Destroyer armor and I thought that meant a storyline for Rhodey.

I actually concocted this theory that Rocket would build it for him, not Tony. Maybe when Tony was in space? I’m not sure. I saw the clip in the trailer of Rocket on Rhodey’s shoulder and thought it meant something.

Rhodey was wearing different armor in the final battle and I think(?) it was bigger.

Because he suited up when Bruce put on the Gauntlet, and then got out of the suit to save Rocket. I think he said “canopy” as like a code word for the suit to let him out. Did anyone hear that?

I was pretty stressed during that scene, because even though it was a small moment, I remembered that Rhodey was paralyzed and worried he couldn’t get to Rocket. He just army crawled over and it was fine. I wouldn’t have minded to stay on that a bit longer. It could have been an interesting moment.

Thinking about it, I don’t think Rocket got much to do either. He’s can build bombs that destroy anything and come up with plans to get out of multiple prisons, but he wasn’t much help in building anything (at least it seemed like Tony did the mental lifting).

He seemed to be there mostly to make horrible jokes at Thor’s expense. And then I wondered if it is more expensive to CGI a character into a movie than it is to have, like, Drax or Nebula say those lines.

These probably aren’t things I should be wondering in the movie?

They better not phase Don Cheadle out just because Tony is dead. He’s been part of the Avengers team officially since Age of Ultron. And especially if they had those five years together, then he’s pretty important to the group.

My next question is, how long does a raccoon live? Because Rocket said he didn’t have that long of a lifespan in GotG. Does this extra five years mean he should die soon? I googled it and it say 2-3 years in the wild but about 20 years in captivity.

Did this movie’s flash forward waste 1/4th of his life? Or do experimented on raccoons live longer? (I would actually thing shorter?)

[agentem]

Endgame Questions: Nebula, Gamora, Vormir, who knew, etc

I had very high hopes for Nebula going into Endgame. Obviously in the comics, she can use the Gauntlet, and she takes it from Thanos. I really wanted her to be the one to kill him because of what he has done to her personally. I wanted a hero arc for her so she could fully join the Guardians on the side of light.

I was... let down. There was some good stuff. But, ah, I can’t get into specifics until I cut.

So the early scenes with Nebula might have been my faves. We saw at the end of GotG2 when Gamora hugged her that she was not used to physical contact and affection. Yet here we see her touching Tony’s shoulder gently, in a mournful way.

I like when they play the football game. I don’t always love Tony, but he is very charming and he has enough confidence (bordering on arrogance sometimes) that things like losing a game of paper football don’t bother him at all. But Nebula is not used to winning anything. I imagine anything she did with her “siblings” was never a game but rather a way to prove themselves to Thanos. There were always strings attached.

That moment where he shakes her hand and she’s like initially confused and then does shake his hand made me tear up a bit.

I thought it was the beginning of her growth. Learning how to work with others (she was on the screen, reporting to Natasha and not trying to vie for control or undermine, say, Okoye or Rocket. It had a team vibe.)  But then during the planning stages and later (when it is secretly past!Nebula doing Thanos’ bidding) she is left out of the group scenes, like she isn’t really part of the team. I kept wondering when someone was going to say, “Hey where’s Nebula?” when they were going to have Banner put on the Gauntlet. No one did. Does this mean they never really considered her part of the Avengers proper?

So maybe she wasn’t part of the team. Maybe they weren’t friends, really. And that leads me to my deep fear.

Nebula knew the Soul Stone was on Vormir. Nebula knew Gamora knew where it was and that is why he took her there. She also knows that something (obviously not exactly what) happened where Thanos “had to” (and she says her father is not a liar) kill Gamora.

I don’t think it’s too much of a leap to assume there is some kind of Soul Stone test based on this information.

My fear was that Nebula was sending Clint and Natasha, somehow surmising that they were close--though Nebula is not usually particularly aware of other people’s emotions so this part is hazy for me. At this point I thought Tony had to be in on it to give her that information and I wasn’t sure why he would do that since...

Well, I thought perhaps she wanted the Soul Stone for her own purposes. Because we, the comic book readers, know about the Soul World. And we the audience know about it from the end of Infinity War. Maybe, having done research to find the stones for Thanos, she knew about the Soul World and hoped to find her sister there.

Maybe she was sacrificing Clint (because I think she would’ve seen him as the weak link not Natasha, I don’t know why I think this. She doesn’t seem to like men) to get Gamora back.

And then there would be a reveal of that and the Avengers would feel betrayed. Then Thanos would arrive and she’d prove herself in battle somehow.

Honestly, that is what I thought was going to happen as I was watching the film.

Instead we get Thanos being able to see the future through her cybernetic eye which I don’t understand on a time travel thing. I also don’t understand why Tony or Rocket didn’t do something about her eye, maybe check before they left that all her systems were properly functioning?

I don’t know, she had mentioned in GotG 2 about being in “ceaseless” pain because of the things Thanos had done to her. I sort of thought Tony or Rocket might “fix” her in her redemption arc. Like she would allow someone else in and admit that she was in constant pain, and they would be like “Whoa that sucks! I will get right on that!” (I thought it would be Tony as part of his realizing his dad was not so bad arc.)

So past Thanos being alerted seemed like ANOTHER real failure for the team to do their due diligence before embarcking on their Time Heist. I mean the one thing they DON’T want to do is bring Thanos back, right?

I liked some of her interactions with Rhodey because they are both part machine at this point, and I think he understood some of that. It was not said but it was in Don Cheadle’s amazing face when she stuck her hand into the thing surrounding the orb and her skin just melted off. (I love Don Cheadle, he does so much with so little.)

Then when she missed the extraction because of her eye, she seemed very genuinely concerned and tried to call back Clint and Natasha which made me think she wasn’t messing with them. And then I was confused.

There was some good stuff between her and Gamora on the ship. I loved when she was prisoner and Gamora came and gave her a hand up and Nebula finally took it. Although I could argue that is just a replay of what happened in GotG2, where they made peace with each other. So it’s not really NEW stuff it’s just MORE of the stuff I like.

The one scene of Gamora/Nebula that I did truly love was when those two confronted past Nebula. We got a real look into her mindset, that Thanos would always win somehow. That she saw no way out even when it was right in front of her face (literally!). Then when future Nebula shot past Nebula to save Gamora, I cried.

So much of Infinity War was about sacrifice and who would you be willing to sacrifice to save lives or get what you want. Nebula had NO hesitantion. She killed herself immediately when there was a threat to Gamora. I think that also gives you some insight as to where her brain is, in regards to her own worth in the galaxy but also how much she cares for her sister.

I am having a lot of trouble reconciling THAT with my earlier expectations of the film. Is she really just happy to have ANY version of Gamora around that she hasn’t given thought to her soul? Was it just a mistake to send Nat and Clint?

Nebula isn’t stupid but she’s also not a super strategic thinker. Maybe she really didn’t guess what the test on Vormir was. Maybe she thought this was another instance of her father being cruel, perhaps punishing Gamora for her disloyalty?

James Gunn, I am going to need a lot more Nebula and Gamora in GotG3. Historically, you have not been great with female characters. So I need you to get it together and really step up here.