#eurylochus hate

[animehaircolors]

Diving head first into Eurylochus drama

"Odysseus is just as bad"

No. Let's talk about it.

Consider morality like a math equation. +1 point for every good decision. -1 for every bad decision. (-2 for REALLY bad decisions) Admittedly this is a bit subjective. However, hear me out.

(We'll include attempted choices because Eurylochus admittedly doesn't get a ton of agency)

Eurylochus is easy because he does a lot less than Ody, so we'll start with him.

Full Speed Ahead: He wants to burn the island to the ground -1 this would not be helpful even slightly. It solves nothing. They burn the island to the ground? Well they're left with a lot of casualties, and a pile of inedible fruit

(I could make the argument that he also tried to run away and therefore get them all caught with Polyphemus, but that feels unfair considering the situation)

Luck Runs Out: This is actually a big reason why I hate him. Morality aside, he's incredibly whiny. He doesn't offer a solution to the situation at hand, only questions Odysseus in front of the crew and tries to shoot down the one plan they do have without suggesting anything else. -1 for 'planting seeds of doubt' (-10,000 in my personal book for being annoying, but that's not really about morality, so we'll stick with the -1)

Keep Your Friends Close: -1 (I will get into this in a little bit but I actually think this is the worst thing he ever did)

Puppeteer: net 0.75, in my book. He chooses not to go into Circe's palace, which is a good thing, and means he can tell Odysseus everything that happened. +1! It also implies that he would not cheat on Clymene, considering he wasn't immediately taken in by the pretty lady. -0.25 for wanting to leave the crew behind.

Different Beast: +1 he followed orders, and helped kill the sirens which was objectively the best option for keeping the crew safe.

Scylla: -0.25 Confessing about the wind bag was horrible timing, but he didn't know that.

Mutiny: -2 I know what you're thinking, (I'm not gonna dock points for their fight for either of them, it was sort of self defense on both of their parts if you think about it.) This is entirely about the cows. Bad bad move. Now before you come at me with "He was tired! It was a suicide attempt" yeah. I know. It's (morally) fine if you want off yourself, you shouldn't make everyone else die with you.

Final score: -3.5

Odysseus

Just A Man: -0.5 Yikes, but understandable with the situation

Full Speed Ahead: +1 for trying to find a peaceful solution before using violence.

Warrior of the Mind: -1 for not listening to Athena's warning, and going into the cyclops lair.

Polyphemus: +2 he tried to be peaceful at first, and the 'Nobody' thing was brilliant and saved them later on.

Remember Them: net -2. He created a plan to defeat the cyclops using his own club against him, which undoubtedly saved lives. +1. Then he did a stupid. -3

My Goodbye: -1 Athena is my favorite so I am biased. However, lashing out at a goddess is not smart. Just because she DIDN'T smite him, doesn't mean what he did was at all reasonable. A different god might've killed his whole crew over what he said.

Storm: +1 He came up with a plan to get them through the storm somewhat safely.

Luck Runs Out: I'm feeling nice, so I'll give a -0.5 for invalidating Eurylochus's concerns. I don't actually think he was TRYING to do that. To me that ending very much came across as "next time come to me privately" however, I can see how Eurylochus might've interpreted it differently, and Odysseus could've made that more clear.

Keep Your Friends Close: +1 Even though it didn't end up working he still came up with a plan and tried to follow through, staying up for nine days to try and get everyone home.

Ruthlessness: +0.5 for the trick with the windbag that allowed some of the crew to escape. (I'd give the full point except this happened BECAUSE Odysseus did a stupid. Still, I already docked points for that in Remember Them)

Puppeteer: +2 for going to save the crew, despite, at that point, having no magic. He was risking his own life for his men. I feel like people ignore this.

Done For: net 0. He won, but WTF do you mean he claimed he was a god? Boi, you're gonna get smited.

There Are Other Ways: net +1 I'd give him two points for not cheating and getting his men back. However -1 for choosing to got to the underworld at all.

Monster: -1 understandable, but bad.

Suffering: +1 I'll take off a point for Scylla in a minute, however the plan to get directions from the siren was a good idea I think.

Different Beast: +1.5 for the same reason as Eurylochus, except he actually came up with the plan.

Scylla: -2 He didn't tell his crew the plan, then tried to murder Eurylochus.

Thunderbringer: -3

I could keep going for him, but that feels unfair because Eurylochus didn't have the chance to make any more decisions after this point. And after this is when I'd say Odysseus kinda got his act together, because nothing after this point felt morally bad to me. So, in the interest of fairness, we'll end it here.

Final score: -2

----------------

I'm sure plenty of you disagree with my exact scoring, but I hope you get my point. In my eyes, Odysseus isn't better than Eurylochus because he makes less mistakes. He's better than Eurylochus, because he does more GOOD things, whereas Eurylochus just questions Odysseus most of the time, without offering any better plans. That's why I find him so annoying, and why I think many other fans do too, even if they don't realize it.

However there is one situation where I think Eurylochus did something that was worse than anything Odysseus did.

The wind bag. Let me explain.

I have sympathy for Eurylochus in mutiny, he was starving.

I have sympathy for Odysseus in Remember Them, he just saw his best friend die.

I have sympathy for Eurylochus in Puppeteer, he just saw his friends forcibly transformed into livestock by someone with magic far beyond anything he has access to.

I even have sympathy for Odysseus in Scylla, it was a high stress situation, and he found out his brother in law betrayed him.

But the wind bag?

Eurylochus had nine whole days to think this through. He wasn't under stress or pressure. Nine days of calm waves and no storm. Nine days of peaceful sailing.

Yes I know about the rumors, but think about this.

Say there's a fifty-fifty chance between it being treasure, or a hurricane. (There isn't because Odysseus doesn't care about treasure, only seeing his wife again, but I'll go with this for now.)

Do you take that chance? What if there was only a 25% chance, or even a 1% chance of a hurricane.

I wouldn't.

No matter how miniscule the chances are, no treasure would be valuable enough to risk never going home again. It's not as though Eurylochus is poor, he's married to a princess. The King's sister. This should not have been as tempting as it apparently was.

If there's even a 0.0001% chance my captain is telling the truth, then I'm not touching that bag. It should not have been worth the risk. If he's angry with Odysseus then fine, but he should be angry and distrustful at home.

And he had nine peaceful days to think it over.

(also there is literally NO TREASURE that would get me to stay up for nine days straight. I feel like that should've been an indication, because he was trying SO HARD to protect it.)

Also, complete side note, but I can't believe Mr "Don't forget how dangerous the gods are" is the one going "Oh yeah, I trust the winions, over my captain who got me through ten years of war" it makes me irrationally angry.

But mainly it's just the fact that he had so much time to think through this decision. Every other horrible choice is made in a moment of adrenaline and stress. Emotions run high clouding your judgement, and it's not like Odysseus always had time to think it through.

Eurylochus did though, at least in this instance, and that's why I think it was worse than all his other choices.

[ohumokay]

quick reminder: it's okay to love some complex characters and hate or dislike others

complex characters are, by definition, 3D and (hopefully well) developed. they have backstories and connections. traumas and responses. opinions and points of view. they are meant to start a conversation. meant to encourage viewers to look from other perspectives. meant to present controversial stances in a sometimes favorable light.

but they are controversial in nature. and its okay to have different opinions with the same information.

people are quick to say "everyone wants a complex character but cant handle [such and such]" but it's not that people cant handle the complex character, they simply believe the cons outweigh the pros. same on the flip side.

edit like five seconds after posting: im putting the tags in the post because there were too many and they cut off awkwardly lol

this is mostly about caitlyn from arcane and eurylochus from EPIC since they are both characters who stir up a lot of drama in the fandom. im personally very indifferent to caitlyn and a hater-turned-neutralist for eurylochus. i believe both their actions stemmed from trauma and grief and a lost (or gain in caitlyn's case) of determination. i also believe their actions were twisted and serious uncool for their respective situations

i understand caitlyn was grieving her mom -- and if someone killed my mom id probably hunt them too -- but she harmed several people who were already oppressed and assaulted vi for being humane. i cant excuse all that simply because she was grieving. i can understand her anger and frustration and accept that she turned it around at the last moment

as for eurylochus: i still have some lingering hate in my heart for that man, so imma tag this accordingly so his lovers and defenders aren't called here and offended

he was tired and hungry and desperate during the entirety of that trip. he was simply a man going against mystical monsters and literal gods. he was relying on a man who made one mistake that royally fucked them up forever. he was just a man lol

but his morality was flawed and his logic was lowkey hypocritical. when he questioned Ody PUBLICLY during luck runs out, he instilled a sense of distrust and hesitation in the crew members for Ody, which was not needed. if he truly cared about his friend and his crew he would have questioned him privately and less assertively. instead he put everyone on edge and forced Ody to get stern in a way that negatively affected everybody in the long run. he then opened the windbag when they were so close to home because he led himself to lose trust in a man that had did everything in his power thus far to keep everyone alive. he caused the death of 500+ men because of irrational paranoia

then on Circe's island he was willing to leave the remaining members to save his and Ody's own skins, and got mad when Ody didn't want to do that. but when it was time for Ody to risk a few lives and save many other, Eurylochus cause a damn mutiny. THEN PROCEEDED TO LEAD THE CREW TO THEIR DEATHS. and after making a mistake comparable to ody telling Polyphemus who he was, Eurylochus had the audacity to call for his captain. AND try to reason that the lives of men who just betrayed Ody and caused him his way home were more important than Ody's chance to get to his family.

[confusedgayscreeching]

Y’all I have so many feelings about Epic: the musical. Hatred for multiple characters is a big one!

Obviously, like any other sane individual I despise Calypso and Antinuous. If you don’t, you’re objectively wrong, I don’t make the rules.

I do however have very complicated feelings about Eurylochus. On one hand I understand the he’s only human and I get the doubt of Odysseus, especially later on, but on the other hand- bro was so dumb and hypocritical and it genuinely makes me so angry lmao. He expects perfection from his captain but then immediately turns around and goes against the orders he’s given and makes the exact same or worse mistakes of his own. And him blaming Odysseus for polities death in luck runs out will forever ruin him for me.

And don’t forget Eurylochus was second in command! He was also responsible for the crew, and literally everything he does harms that cause! He sows doubt and blame towards the captain and openly blames him the deaths of their men, deaths that literally could not have been avoided! He blames Odysseus for not being omnipotent and knowing exactly how to do everything perfectly. He was not only hypocritical and didn’t think anything through, but he also immediately got the crew killed every time he made a decision of his own. Opening the windbag against orders? Get ready for Poseidon to kill hundreds of your comrades! Killing the cows even though Odysseus begged you not to? Zeus’ turn for some carnage! He was at least partially responsible for every problem as second in command, as he said himself “if you want all the power you must carry all the blame.” By his own logic his position would make him partially to blame. And then to expect Odysseus to take the blame?? Especially when the thing Zeus is threatening them over was directly his fault this time? Lmao absolutely not. The arrogance is astounding!

Also people who get upset at Odysseus choosing himself in thunder bringer make me laugh cause really how many of us would choose differently? His crew mutinied against him, stabbed him, knocked him out, and went directly against what he asked of them. Literally immediately once he was not longer in charge they committed a crime against the god of the sun that he begged them not to do, why would he sacrifice himself for their error when he literally warned them? Especially when they don’t seem to know at all what they’re doing and would most likely get themselves killed anyway lmao.

[thebeegalaxy]

"don't forget how dangerous the gods are" really eurylochus? what about when you killed a motherfucking gods cow??? or when you opened the motherfucking wind bag which YOU were warning about???

fucking hell i hate eurylochus

[moon-x0]

Guys epic fans

Specifically Eury haters

I need to know your thought process

Why do you hate my boy? (Do know if you reply there is a 90% chance I will respond and I will be defending Eury)

[estelleiswhatsmyname]

Why did eurylochus think he would have been a better captain he went against Odysseus and Opened the bag and then was surprised by the consequences of his actions then he wanted to ditch his friends when they were turned into pigs, then he got mad at Odysseus for killing six men to go through the only area they wouldn't be killed then killed a cow and doomed them all

[mkweber]

Eurylochus Rant

I am a Eurylochus hater in the same way you are supposed to hate the Joker or the Penguin in a DC comic. They’re the villains.

Eurylochus is a mirror image of Odysseus. He has a wife at home, a family that loves him. People he is fighting like all hell to get back to.

Despite the similarities between the two men, Eurylochus is not a hero. He is Odysseus’ foil.

He betrays his king, he gives in to his weaknesses, he quits. Knowing the odds, knowing they are destined for failure, cursed by the gods and scorned by men. In the face of suffering he gives in.

But Odysseus never does and in the end his most-trusted friend, his own brother, becomes the biggest obstacle he has to face.