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at this rate jonathan and steve are going to fall madly in love and go on double dates in philadelphia with ronance and move into the new york city suburbs together and have six kids and jonathan is going to shout them all out in his oscar acceptance speech before mike even just LOOKS at will's painting hanging in his room like “wait a minute”
we don't talk about it enough so i'm just going to say it. lucas sinclair is stronger than all of us putting up with the gay ass drama in his friend group. like he had to be lowkey annoyed asf being dragged to will's house in the pouring fucking torrential rain by mike because mike needed emotional support while banging on will's door begging will to take him back after he said all that shit in the garage that lucas had NOTHING to do with but did lucas still go with him? yeah. yeah he did. and he did it for the gays. name a better ally
jonathan is the top in stonathan
half the room while will was in tears coming out as gay
14 year old mike wheeler, monologuing to eleven: i knew from the moment i met you that i loved you
12 year old mike wheeler, the moment he met eleven: crawl out my window and go knock on my house's door so my mom calls child services on you and you can go back to pennhurst asylum or whatever because i'm way too busy — wait did you say you know about will? where is he? is he okay? you can live in my closet if you help me find him
jokes aside, regarding will's formal coming out scene, i had a lot of complicated feelings around it as i'm sure many do. it's clear that the duffers are hyping this scene up as some great consolation to us queer fans while also laughing in our faces after queerbaiting the way they did. it was a case of queerbaiting that was frankly more malicious than anything i've ever seen... and the coming out — while still impactful and as i said, non-queer people "review-bombing" need to shut their mouths about it being "unnecessary" — was... off.
tl;dr it felt like a complete afterthought in terms of writing. they say they prepared for it for 9 years, but i have my doubts about that. based on how contrived and all over the place this finale was, there's simply no way unless you are admitting you don't know how to maintain proper direction, pacing, and pay off in your writing.
it was also very dated — not as in the show is set in the 80s, but as in i felt like i was watching a corny, tearjerker buzzfeed video about queerness, or a kurt hummel monologue on an old episode of glee. noah gave it his all and acted the hell out of the scene with the frankly lacklustre script he got, but it doesn't change for me that the scene laid out for him to work within was just not great. the content was so stereotypically what cishet people expect to hear from a coming out: "i'm just like you, just... different! i'm still me! i'm normal!" reiterating normalcy is always reductive. many queer people acknowledge that we aren't "normal" but that this is because society has deemed us to not be so. coming out, to some degree and especially back then, means embracing that. yes, we are the same in that our love and our stories and our lives have value and we can share interests with cishets etc., but we are different because those who have dominated society for generations have deemed us so. there's no need to downplay that. i thought will (and el) were better for being different, after all...?
i still cried because i really love will, and i'm so proud and happy for him, so glad to see him getting to embrace his queerness on screen for the audience to witness! i think he was happy and relieved about coming out and getting a positive response, and i think it was intended to be received by the audience that way. it was meant to be a heartfelt, powerful scene, but the problem lies in its execution and the ignorance of the duffers.
for me, a queer person, it was off. i was uncomfortable. i felt ill, frankly, and i couldn't figure out what that meant. i wanted to believe i was just experiencing overwhelmingly positive emotions, but i had to pause the scene 3 times for that strange sour feeling to dissipate. i don't know how to describe it.
first of all, i strongly dislike that it was set up that will made the decision to come out because he believed not doing so made him weak to vecna, and he needed to get stronger to help the party win. i don't think anyone should come out because they believe they have to for others, feel forced in some way, or are under duress. i don't think the duffers understand that a good, empowering coming out is always preceded by someone essentially accepting that it could go terribly, they could lose it all, their loved ones could abandon them... but they're ready for that because they cannot live without authenticity anymore, and they love themselves. they're doing it for themselves, not for others. they're ready to carry themselves on the journey. for will, none of this was true. yes, he had community support in robin by now, and it was clear his mother, his brother, his friends were all going to accept him narratively to the audience because of course they weren't going to blow any of that up with 1 episode left, but in the 80s this certainty would not have been the reality, and based on how anxious will was in the scene, we were supposed to believe he wasn't certain he'd be accepted. for all he knew, everyone could've turned their backs on him in that moment. if that was his state of mind, it would make this a terrible time and mindset to come out as your most vulnerable self in, right as the series is leading up to its final takedown requiring complete unity of its team of characters. will wasn't ready for such a grandiose public coming out, and it ended up coming off as a performative effort of the duffers.
there was no nuance, no stakes, no real queer voice influencing this coming out scene, and it showed. noah gave it his all and he's always been an amazing performer as will byers... he built that character, and his experiences as a gay man allowed him to tap into emotions that would still resonate with queer audiences, and that allowed him to make the best of the scene. but if a cishet man had been the actor here, i strongly, strongly doubt it would've had any of the impact it managed to have on us. it would've missed every beat and been completely tone-deaf. this is why i don't buy the duffers having planned this for 9 years. they couldn't have known when noah was 11 years old that he was going to be able to hard-carry this weak writing. only as he grew up did he gain the experiences necessary to inject life into this scene.
that said, will still needed an explicit coming out. i agree with that. homophobic audiences are miffed that will got a coming out scene because they didn't want to see the gay character get gay screentime. a coming out was necessary for this character. but a more intimate coming out for will — a scene with his mother and his brother, and then something separate with his close friends and none of the randos he hardly interacts with in the show sitting there blankly — would've been much more realistic, powerful, and better. his 1 on 1 scene with jonathan in the pizza parlour in season 4 was honestly so much more thought out and beautiful.
with what we got in season 5, i could just imagine myself sitting in that room like that, shaking and ripping out the viscera of myself and throwing it all out on the floor for everyone to parse through and not knowing if they'll handle it with care or cruelly crush it before my eyes. scary. i felt a bit sick inside. i felt the way i did sitting in that dark restaurant, trying to find the signs to tell my dad i am bisexual, i tried to get out of the phase all these years, pick one door or the other and walk through it like he said i should, but it didn't work, this is who i am and i can't change it, i'm not just trying to seek attention or hide from the truth, i'm not trying to lie to you or upset you... i was so hot with shame back then and my hands weren't working smoothly. similar feeling now and it wasn't even my coming out… crazy how that works...!
when i came out to my mother, it was a completely different experience. i knew she would accept me. i knew she "knew" and loved me, supported me. i knew she was an ally, her best friend in high school was trans after all lol. there was no chance i was losing her. i was safe. i wasn't scared. i felt how will probably felt knowing robin, jonathan, and even steve (who he'd learned is an ally and safe space for robin) were there.
every time i've come out since then — because it's lifelong, you have to keep coming out for the rest of your life, you don't just sit everyone down and that's the end of it — i've been ready. i'm prepared. i'm certain of myself and my identity, and happy with her. i'm always ready to fight for her, defend my queerness, walk away and alone if that's what it means. if i'm not accepted, i'm in a place where i won't be crushed by it.
anyway, it may just be my own history clouding things, but it seems i'm not the only one who felt uncomfortable watching the scene. i want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt and say that they probably wanted to pay homage to how terrifying it can be to come out, but it didn't translate and just ended up being a complete bastardisation. the only thing that sort of saved it was noah's performance as i mentioned, and noah is a gay man so of course he would be more in tune with what a queer audience would resonate with.
i just can't help thinking, how could we go from the beauty and power of robin's monologue and will's 3mm tape, and the genuine love in will and jonathan's heart-to-heart in season 4 post-van scene to this? it felt so cheap to me.
for a positive, i did think dustin, robin, and jonathan had beautiful reactions in the background. everyone else was a bit on the flat side, but robin and jonathan (who already knew basically) crying tears of joy and pride, and dustin actually looking like he was overwhelmed watching his friend spill his heart out like that... like he was listening intently and feeling a lot of emotion for will… props to gaten! and maya and charlie of course, haha. steve also showed some emotion, wiping away a tear. i will always love my favourite ally steve harrington y'all.
also: i've seen some people mention how it's a cop-out of sorts to not have will say "i'm gay", but that part actually doesn't bother me at all. i think back then (and probably even now for some) it's easier to say what you aren't than what you are. saying "i don't like girls" isn't as pointed and doesn't carry the same stigma as "i'm gay" and… well, will really wasn't certain how people were going to take it, especially given it wasn't a very intimate coming out restricted to very close friends and family. there's a lot of shame and fear surrounding queerness in this era and will was a direct victim of homophobia for a long time, since he was very little, and even when you know the loved ones you're opening up to won't hurt you, it's still a situation where dipping your toes in by saying something more vague (but still clear!) is preferable to diving in headfirst into what might be dark, icy water.
sigh... well. it may be a bit late, but this took time for me to process. i've been mulling over it here and there for the last few days. i wanted to kind of express everything i felt with it and maybe start a dialogue if anyone still needs that. feel free to vent, chat in my inbox, etc... i know this is a tough thing in particular and it goes way beyond fandom/shipping. queer representation can be really good and cathartic and well-written, or it can be confused and trigger feelings we'd rather not feel again or remember. i'm here to talk and support!
things i'm thinking about post s5 pt 1 (read if you like someone waxing on about their interest)
el and hopper's father-daughter dynamic and the HEALING they are both getting to experience from it is so evident. hopper is protecting el and teaching her, helping her grow, which he didn't get enough time to do with sarah. el has a parent figure who truly loves and values her for who she is and is proud of her. el is coming into her own beautifully. she is learning to be more and more independent and eager to be. hopper is getting to release some of his long held grief being el's father figure. i was crying when hopper said "i love you jane" thinking it was the last time he'd see her and el cried not wanting him to go.
steve honestly being so real with jonathan in that one scene. "if you stopped thinking about me so much and focused on her then maybe you could both finally be happy" or whatever he said. like honestly that's so true, it's obvious that jonathan still feels kind of inferior in so many ways and even though steve has his own hang ups — still trying to "impress" nancy sometimes if only because he's probably struggling with his own inferiority issues — jonathan doesn't have any reason to be so fixated on that. he has nancy... she loves him, he loves her... it's time he have confidence in himself and his relationship! i suppose we might see that come together with a marriage proposal...?
but also i don't know if nancy wants marriage yet...? she's been hard to read this season because she's so on edge with everything going on, but nancy's also always struck me as someone who is focused on her scholarly/career goals and is VERY independent. that's why jonathan who's pretty passive has been a good partner for her... but if he's proposing, i wonder what she'll say.
steve also making a really good, thoughtful point that nancy is still someone he sees as a friend and he wants to do nice things for her without it being viewed as an interference with her and jonathan's relationship. i'm pretty sure steve has some lingering feelings still but it's clear he's intending for nancy to make the final call and as long as she's happy, he'll still treat her with kindness and will be happy to be in her life as a friend. i think it's cool that he actually said that out loud to jonathan. he's a good guy deep down, beneath all the insecure stuff. who can blame him? i wonder if steve'll get some more development.
stonathan interactions... thank you lord for this delicious meal i'll eat it no problem........
dustin being very... different this season. it shows how traumatic eddie's death was for him, and how that trauma can alter someone. he's still the dustin we love, but he has darker moments and is definitely more brooding now.
MAX!!!! when i tell you i shouted when the camera panned up to her face above holly. i did not expect her to be there, even though i totally believed she was just trapped somewhere and that's why she was in a coma! i was so excited. i can't wait for her to escape and reunite with lucas and get to actually hold his hand and be with him without any barriers! play that kate bush lucas PLAY IT
also the story max told to holly to prove her identity about mike trying to have an orange mohawk before nancy talked him out of it? and basically saying he's not hot? i'm fucking crying what the hell... byler 🤝 bad taste in hairstyles
references to henry's trauma with a cave/crevice in a desert-like place... nevada memories anyone? are we gonna try and redeem henry with this? are we trauma bonding with vecna? please no, do not make me empathise with the groomer and predator let's just take his ass out
karen seeing a demogorgon for the first time and literally not pausing for even a second. she just jumped right the hell in to defend her youngest daughter, no questions asked, no hesitation. she kicked ass and she did it TIPSY! with a BROKEN WINE BOTTLE! i love karen wheeler so fucking much and if any of you frauds talk shit about her anymore i'm coming to your houses. (also i thought ted died but apparently he's not dead? good for him i guess)
robin getting to be the support to a younger queer person that she probably would've wanted growing up and ended up getting from steve... just her sharing her experiences and words of wisdom about queer life is clearly opening will's eyes to so many possibilities for himself. when he asked her how she knew vickie would like her (aka be queer) and robin just... described what people feel when they like each other. huge moment i think. it shows that gay people don't inherently experience love differently and i think it's probably something will didn't even think about... if byler endgame is in the cards, then maybe he'll start thinking of mike touching his hand to calm him down, looking/glancing at him, mike specifically NOT wanting to touch him at the airport and wondering about it...?
parallels to mike's "you're a superhero" to el and "you're like a sorcerer" to will, except superhero was a title that burdened and even upset el whereas sorcerer enabled will to gain strength and confidence and take control of his powers. mike looking at will with awe — he's amazed by him, the way he always has been by el. but he's also looking at him with elation, because in some small way... he helped will do that. his words helped give him strength to find his powers and use them. mike described feeling useless to el in the van, and will expressed to him that it's not true... that "el" does need him... but el doesn't need mike and hasn't for awhile. she's doing incredible with hopper and on her own. will, however... he was encouraged by mike. his memories with mike in part fueled his desire to fight back, break out of the "weak" box he'd been put in by so many, and finally find a way to protect his loved ones. and mike is so, so happy he could help make that difference. his love and his presence were that important to will.
joyce being so so so protective of will and us getting hints of how guilty and responsible she felt even though there was nothing she could've done to stop will from being taken... it's so easy to understand where she's coming from not wanting to lose him and have him get hurt again, but it's also been interfering with will coming into his own and finding his strength. it wasn't until mike mentioned the sorcerer thing and robin inspired him with her talk that he could break away from that... i wonder how joyce will take it, knowing her son is powerful and going to be a main "weapon" in their fight against vecna, but also still having an instinct to wrap him up and hide him from danger?
also will's powers? so cool. i love that he's connected to the hive mind and as detrimental as that can be, he can also use it to his advantage. i will admit i saw it coming that he would have some ability to "control" things from the upside down but i didn't actually expect the el-style psychokinesis... i wonder if it's limited to demogorgons/vecna/other possessed kids, or if he can manipulate multiple things like el can? i'm guessing his abilities are tethered to his connection to the upside down... but we'll have to wait and see. i'm hoping that his abilities are slightly different in origin to el's, because i think it'll make them a great team for the final take down... with el's more generalised psychic strength and abilities and will's specific ability to see and manipulate things from the upside down, they're going to kick so much ass and i can't fucking wait. also the white eyes omg!!! freaky but awesome
also JOYCE WENT TO SCHOOL WITH HENRY CREEL? IS THAT A REAL MEMORY? DID I SEE THAT SCENE FROM 1959 CORRECTLY?
i kinda love this derek kid lmao… he's a little shit but he's so out of pocket, faking doing a visualisation session with the other kids to help them escape and actually doing a pretty solid job of it? what is that kid's story deadass i need to know his lore because all i got was rich republican american parents and bitchy sister (who make erica make pie for them) and he's kind of a school bully and he sees henry like holly does... like what do i make of that
byler trying to stop the flooding pipe… like how many gay people does it take…
thank god we're getting erica as a more regular cast member. now i just need a tad more lucas. maybe when max gets back...
“so why wasn’t will affected and in pain while the mind flayer was being killed if he's connected to it and has always been shown in agony whenever the upside down, demogorgons, mind flayer, or vecna are being hurt?”
"um well because it was off camera. yeah. we didn’t show it but it was totally 100% happening. will just wasn’t the focus of the camera during the fight duh. it’s not like we forgot or anything. don’t ask stupid questions”
"okay well why didn't joyce and hopper recognise henry?"
"that. was also off camera. next"
"where did vickie go? did she and robin break up?"
"off camera something happened. or nothing happened. high schoolers don't stay together or maybe they do. they can stay together but they don't usually but they do also stay together. what was the question?"
