Dec 26, 2024
"And if he ever finds a friend who's willing to put up with his crap, he'll be lucky. Until he drives them away, too."
"I'll see what I can do."
The Social Contract, 5x17. Screencap part 1 here
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"And if he ever finds a friend who's willing to put up with his crap, he'll be lucky. Until he drives them away, too."
"I'll see what I can do."
The Social Contract, 5x17. Screencap part 1 here
A story like Thousand Autumns is very subtle in its romance.
Shen Qiao has only ever known his sect. He knows it very well, because of this fact. He knows the people, he knows the rules, he knows the daily doings and who is doing them. He knows every blade of grass and every stone. He’s like a lonely mountain flower, on the highest peak, unseen by any but a few birds and unknowing that there’s more it might never know.
When he finds himself away from his sect for the first time, he’s confused. At most, he’s gone to the base of the mountain, maybe the fields surrounding that, but no further. The flower was plucked and tossed aside.
For a man stumbling blindly in the world, literally and figuratively, there really isn’t a better guide than one that knows just about everything. And that’s, without a doubt, Yan Wushi.
Yan Wushi has lived longer than Shen Qiao, has been more places than Shen Qiao, and has fought more battles than Shen Qiao. Yan Wushi is the perfect example of something out of reach even for someone out of reach. He’s the only one who could answer any questions asked of him, but especially the questions that Shen Qiao would want to ask him.
And there’s no question in my mind that Yan Wushi doesn’t fall for Shen Qiao at first sight, but he’s certainly attracted to him. Not in an overtly sexual or emotional way, but Yan Wushi, the way his character is set up? It’s impossible for him not to be fascinated by Shen Qiao.
He knows Shen Qiao is the very picture of a peerless immortal. He’s well aware that Shen Qiao is considered untouchable by even the people closest to Shen Qiao. He’s most aware that Shen Qiao is Qi Fengge’s (coughhndisputedcough) favourite disciple, and honestly that’s enough for him to overwhemingly want to mess with Shen Qiao.
There are a lot of reasons for Yan Wushi to fall for Shen Qiao. Most of the people in the novel fall for Shen Qiao, after all, there is a precedent.
But the one I’ve seen questioned is Shen Qiao’s affection for Yan Wushi. Where does it come from? When did it start? Does Shen Qiao even fucking like that asshole?
The easy answer is: yes, he does. The novel tells us that. Shen Qiao, despite everything, does fall for Yan Wushi’s, um, “charms” in the end. This is made clear.
But why? A thousand voices cry out. Why the fuck would any reasonable person like Yan goddamn Wushi in any capacity?
Well, there’s your first mistake. Shen Qiao is not a reasonable person.
Shen Qiao as a character is absolutely terrifying. He could absolutely destroy the world given half the inclination, but he just doesn’t want to. He’s already considered unmatched before he’s pushed unceremoniously off of a mountain, and his journey only increases his strength. He isn’t quite equal to Yan Wushi, but he’s the only person Yan Wushi ever sees as equal to himself.
Shen Qiao’s best and worst trait is his patience. He’s unwavering. He really just embodies taoism, especially as it’s presented in the novels. He is the picture of a river that doesn’t stray from its path.
Which is why it’s hard for him to reconcile his own attraction to Yan Wushi, but let’s all be clear here. Yan Wushi absolutely starts seducing Shen Qiao on day fucking one. If he could’ve (if Qi Fengge hadn’t been there) he would’ve tried to eat that cabbage when it was just a little sprout. Shen Qiao is unpracticed in most social interactions, to be frank, but he’s especially unused to romance and Yan Wushi really is his first introduction to being hit on.
Yan Wushi is far from good, at really any point, to anybody but especially to Shen Qiao. But that doesn’t particularly matter because Shen Qiao chooses to forgive him, again and again. And I really think, after giving Shen Qiao to a confirmed terrible, awful person who has already promised to do terrible thing to Shen Qiao, that Shen Qiao himself wouldn’t forgive literally anyone else for doing that. And he shouldn’t, because it was really fucked up, but that still doesn’t matter because Shen Qiao ultimately DOES forgive Yan Wushi.
What am I saying? I’m saying that Shen Qiao fell for Yan Wushi first. It is the only way the story makes any sense. Shen Qiao is annoyed at him, he’s furious at him, he’s so fucking pissed he could kill that man, but he likes him. He likes Yan Wushi’s company. He likes that Yan Wushi gives him a challenge. He’s exasperated, but he likes it.
Shen Qiao forgives Yan Wushi SO MANY TIMES. Yan Wushi humiliates him and mocks him and is the absolute worst, but Shen Qiao forgives him and more than that, Shen Qiao always is waiting for Yan Wushi to come back to bother him more.
Is there more to Shen Qiao’s attraction? Probably. Is it a daddy kink? It could be. But I honestly can’t help but read it as Shen Qiao falling for the absolute pits of a man that is Yan Wushi. Shen Qiao likes that old bastard and decides to spend the rest of his life with the fucker and he is just too much of a block of ice to show it.
the term "AI psychosis" incorrectly implies that AI causes psychosis in people who aren't vulnerable to it to begin with. which is only gonna cause more misconceptions and make it harder to get folks with psychosis that isnt "because of" ai taken seriously. telling someone over and over that something isn't real isn't gonna give them psychosis unless they're predisposed to it. thats gaslighting.
yes its an issue that ai is lying and doing all this bullshit but like.. if someone has psychosis that was triggered by interacting with AI, it's just psychosis, the same as any other kind of psychosis. its not a different type of psychosis called "mold psychosis" b/c its triggered by seeing a bunch of mold. its just a type of psychosis. like. if I get PTSD from one type of trauma, and someone else gets it from another type of trauma, it's still PTSD. if I have OCD triggered by one thing, that doesn't mean it's a different mental illness to OCD triggered by another thing. so why would psychosis triggered by AI be considered a separate condition to psychosis triggered by anything else?
this is not a diagnosis that is currently recognized by science and frankly the way people are using the term right now is seriously belittling the dangers of psychosis in general. it is a Behaviour and a Response to ai being bullshit. it is not a diagnosis of psychosis it is a specific response.
people having these responses are literally listed in studies as being predisposed to psychosis. sure its reinforcing those hypothetical delusions but its the same as a human person reinforcing them. yeah, people who are already prone to struggling distinguishing reality from delusions have their situation exacerbated when presented with a tool that's specifically made to mimic human social interaction.
another talking point im seeing is that it is psychosis because its defined by someone not being able to distinguish what the AI says from reality... which is not at all characteristic of psychosis? for example, i have cotards syndrome. i know that physically my body is alive, and that the belief that i am dead is a delusion. i still experience that delusion despite that. and like, speaking as a person with psychosis), people with psychosis will latch onto anything to confirm delusions. chatgpt is a convenient source, thats true, but the psychotic drive to confirm your delusions via any means necessary and discarding anything to the contrary is like. a symptom.
chatgpt does not help psychosis and can in fact make it much worse but so can a lot of things. its a bot that loves to say yes to anything you say. of course its reaffirming delusions and if people start spiralling while in a 'conversation' with it and it confirms it that does not mean the "AI" is causing the psychosis, or that it is unique to "AI" or that half of these are even psychosis at all. and like im not defending chatgpt i think it sucks balls but like the last thing we need is "ai psychosis" to go the way of "hallucinations" in terms of thats not what those fucking words mean
ALSO even with the Actual phenomena of what is being called "ai psychosis" (ie, someone genuinely believing something false that AI told them and not being able to distinguish it from reality).... its mostly being used to be ableist. dont call it "ai psychosis" because someone is freaking out that their delusion is real because a chatbot agreed with them. yes, its a person with psychosis who is rightfully upset! but it isnt fair to blame it on AI and believe that removing the ai will fix everything. using the term ai psychosis not only demeans those people with other types of psychosis, but also dismisses folks who do experience increases in psychosis because of this as stupid or crazy.
this is not a recognized legal diagnosis and should not be treated as such. it is a phenomena that should be studied, but the way it is being treated is absolutely bullshit and people should probably have a conversation with anyone whos actually psychotic before they talk on this.
The Grand A-Z List of Whump 2/3
This list contains ~174 items listed I to Q
As always, I heavily encourage people to research topics thoroughly when writing as it is important to avoid stereotypes/misinformation. This list's intention is not to glorify/romanticise sensitive topics in any way.
This is a comprehensive list of injuries, Illnesses and tropes - including those from the Whumptober 2023 trope vote!
All submissions are listed in italics, and those who wanted to be tagged will be included at the end. If you have any more submissions: please send them via DM/my ask box.
[A-H] [R-Z] [NSFW List]
List below the cut:
🐾💖 Silco with animals 💖🐾
More domestic fluff. Fuck you
Synopsis: the journey of getting pets with Silco with three separate branches. Starts with just fish then evolves into either a snake, a raven, or a cat and dog pairing. Jinx and Sevika make appearances! Sevika speaks a couple times, which I show like this. Mostly fluff with some hurt and comfort, all of the animals are rescues and we get a little bit into their stories and how you help them ❤️ (also sorry about how long this is I got invested)
Silco: at first against the idea of having pets but eventually warms up to it. Sweet and kind. VERY weak for his pets. Empathetic, autistic, kind of mushy in this one because he gets attached to animals easily. Not a great communicator here but in an endearing way (he's just not good at picking pets).
Warnings: slightly less than canon typical violence, injuries, and ailments, all on animals. All pets stay alive and are happy and healthy in the end. I will put a = at the start of paragraphs that have triggering themes and colour the sentences in purple (like this!), hopefully making them easier to skip.
💞💖 Enjoy 💖💞
It was hard for Whip to watch the teen girl run from them, eventually getting lost between the buildings at the edge of the rice fields. He could track her. It would be easy to do so. Just switch his vision to x-ray and heat sensitive, and modify his hearing. He could easily catch her and bring her back to ask her questions.
But he wouldn’t. Midas seemed to think it would just make things worse, and had opted to let her go. So Whip would follow that decision, even if he didn’t quite understand it. Midas had been so ready to abandon the retrieval of the tokomov reactor in favor of following a lead once before. Yet perhaps it was because the lead was a person this time that he chose to respect their free will to leave.
Or maybe it was just because Midas already had too much information flooding his mind to handle, and didn’t want any more until later. It took several minutes of him just resting his forehead against Ian’s chest, keeping his eyes closed as he tried to filter through the torrent of pseudo memories that had been pulled to the front of his mind. Getting them categorized again and tucked away in their proper places. By the time Midas pulled back, eyes blinking, Whip had given up on being a sentry and had taken to fishing Midas’ and Ian’s shoes out of the water, dumping a small carp back into the pond when he turned one over.
“...Are you alright?” Ian asked softly, keeping his hands on Midas’ shoulders as he started looking around slightly. The question prompted Midas to look up instead of at the water, and he still had a slight squint.
“Yeah,” Midas assured, giving a small nod and blinking a few times before relenting and putting his hand back to his temple. “Just a headache,” he explained as support to his claim. “...Sometimes… I guess it’s like a box gets tipped over in my head. I have all these memories, but they don’t really feel like memories to me. Not like Whip’s memories did to him. And they sometimes contradict each other. Like telling me that a person is my sister, but also my aunt or something. And this time it just… happened all at once.”
The explanation was somewhat confusing at first, but the more Midas described what happened the more Ian was able to make a connection. “...The migraines you used to get,” Ian noted after nodding slowly in sudden realization. “When we first picked you up. Those were caused by the same thing?”
It took Midas a second to realize what Ian was talking about, but he was quick to remember the first half a year he’d been with the Sector 1109 people. He’d been snappy, and reclusive, and sometimes found curled up in the darkest corner he could find with his eyes closed and head covered by his arms. “Yeah. It happened a lot more often after I first woke up. But eventually I was able to categorize things? Kind of lock them away as data in the background instead of active memories,” he confirmed with a nod, rubbing his temple slightly.
“So that girl… made some of the data resurface?” Whip asked, semi satiating his own curiosity by bringing Midas’ attention back to the girl they’d bumped into, and using similar vocabulary as him.
Midas went quiet for a stretch, turning to look where the girl had run. Was that someone else looking at them? He didn’t recognize them, but they had a similar wide hat. Maybe they were just another worker that was wondering what all the commotion was about. Maybe they should leave before they caused anymore trouble. “...Meri…. I think her name is Meri, but I’m not completely sure. She’s… older than I have in my head. But there’s a lot of images of a little girl that looks a lot like her. W-... She-... Something about a stuffed bear. She always had it with her. But now she doesn’t.”
He was raising his hands to his head again, eyes pressing closed as trying to think too much caused the headache to get worse. It wasn’t something that Ian thought would be an easy solution, and he didn’t want Midas to end up feeling sick if the headache did devolve into a migraine. So he rose his hand again to rest on Midas’ back to start directing him away from the rice fields. “C’mon. Let’s go find some shade to sit under and take a break. We need our shoes to dry off too,” he prompted, gently guiding them towards the nearest set of trees he could see. They were a short ways from the edge of the rice fields, amidst a field of wildflowers and grass. Midas seemed to be affected by the sunlight a little more than usual, so Ian figured the shade would help.
“...You dropped your shoes in the water?” Midas asked, a mild teasing snicker in his voice as he followed Ian’s direction and sluggishly made his way out of the water canals.
“It was either that or watch you face plant in the water,” Ian countered, expressing what his thoughts had been at the moment. He’d honestly been worried Midas would get dizzy enough to lose his balance, or possibly completely pass out with the way he’d suddenly reacted.
Midas gave a snort of amusement that suddenly went quiet as Ian’s words sank in. So he cared more about him than the shoes possibly getting ruined by fish water? That was… nice to know. It caused a faint smile to pull at Midas’ mouth.
With the size of the rice fields it took them more than twenty minutes to reach the edge of them. And the walk was slowed even more for a moment as Midas and Ian both gingerly hobbled across the pebble strewn dirt pathway that prevented the meadow from invading the crop fields. Once they were back in the grass it was easier though, and Midas let the grass brush against his fingertips as the wind created waves in the foliage and tugged his hair. It smelled different from the rice fields. A faintly sweet scent that was calming along with the breeze. The smell of plants never faded. But the scent of flowers was different from the water, and the peaceful scenery helped his mind start to settle again. A slight rustle of grass and tree leaves caused him to close his eyes, his steps slowing slightly as he simply enjoyed the environment. It felt familiar. A bittersweet peace that was broken by the faint call of someone in the distance.
“Midas?”
That was his name, but not Whip or Ian who said it. A voice in the semi distance that caused Midas’ heart to skip a beat even as his throat closed slightly. Whip and Ian definitely heard it as well, their forms quickly shifting to face the source of the questioning shout and Whip’s hand subconsciously resting on the hilt of his sword.
And yet, once again, Midas raised a hand to still them for reasons he couldn’t explain, his body feeling suddenly weighed down as he also turned to the source of the shout. There was a man running towards them. A white swallow tail lab coat denoting his profession in medicine and biology. A symbol of status that was starkly contrasted by the presence of house slippers on his feet. But what caught Whip and Ian’s attention the most was the man’s features.
“MIDAS!”
A red haired man, the same shade as Midas’ own hair, was sprinting towards them, feet stumbling on the uneven ground. He barely slowed when he reached the three, keeping from knocking Midas over completely as he threw his arm around the lad in a smothering embrace. Yet Ian noticed the hold held a sense of fragile tenderness to it, as though the man were afraid he might hurt Midas by something as simple as a hug that was too rough. And while Ian and Whip were raising brows in confusion, Midas had frozen stiff in barely comprehending shock. Seeing the man’s face briefly before he’d hugged him had been like looking in a mirror; one that showed a few decades in the future with added glasses. And yet Midas found it was increasingly more difficult to breathe at no fault of the man’s tender yet all encompassing hold. His foreign yet eerily familiar voice quieted into sobbed words Midas couldn’t remember being stored in his mind prior to now.
“T’thank heavens! You’re alive-...”
The man was both laughing and sobbing as he spoke, pulling back only to cup both hands on Midas cheeks and look at him through his tears. Midas could feel the man’s whole frame shaking, both from exertion from running and from emotion. Tears saturated his cheeks even as they were squished by an overjoyed smile.
“My little Midas…”
The simple phrase caused Midas to feel like he was choking on his own esophagus, his frame unconsciously leaning forward slightly. And yet his expression was only a blank stare in lack of understanding. The vague answers to the misty cloud of questions in his mind beating against a wall that prevented them from being known by his conscious memory. He felt petrified. Unable to think of how to respond to what was happening since no coherent thought was able to present itself. Just a blank haze of emptiness only filled by a question and a statement.
Who are you?
I know you.
He was unable to even attempt to trigger any potential memories though. An attempt to further study the man’s face was continually thwarted as the man leaned forward to kiss his forehead, then hug him again, then kiss his temple then cheek. He was very affectionate, and half of Midas found it very odd. But what was more odd was that even though Midas couldn’t place a single memory of this man, the gestures of care still felt like they belonged. Like they’d happened before.
Who was this person?
Midas didn’t know. But he also couldn’t bring himself to ask because it felt so wrong to even consider doing so. As though the mere words would break this man’s spirit irreparably. Which only reinforced Midas’ thoughts that he should know this man, but didn’t.
His thoughts were inevitably distracted by realizing his own cheeks were damp. A shaking hand raising to his face as he was once again pulled into a tight hug made Midas realize it was because of his own tears. His body was crying despite having no prompting from his mind. Fresh, fat tears spilling from openly staring eyes and fingers shaking as the man’s frame shuddered with choked but elated sobs. It was a longer hug this time, and Midas’ nose was pressed against the man’s shoulder as the man’s hand moved to rest on the back of his head. The scent of the man’s figure inevitably became a smothering blanket to block out the rest of the ambience around Midas. A smell that made Midas’ chest ache from the comfort and heartache it brought. A familiarity that his heart knew but his mind didn’t. As though the words had been stolen from his memories but not the emotions.
Midas let out a confused, choked sob as he gave up on his mind and allowed himself to react completely on his emotions this time. Raising his shaking hands to return the hug and hesitantly gripping the white fabric of the coat, Midas hid his face into the man’s shoulder and let out a choked yet soft mixture between a laugh and a sob.
As Midas became lost in the whirlwind of complete lack of coherent thought smothered by overwhelming emotions, Whip ended up distracted by another approaching figure. One that was familiar to him. It was a shock to see her there, but after the initial surprise faded Whip gave her a wry smile. “So this is where you were hiding, Crystal,” Whip greeted, finding his anxiousness strangely calmed by the sight of one who had helped him so many times in the past.
“Yep. It’s ironically the last place people think to look,” Crystal responded, nodding her head in her own greeting while her hands remained loosely tucked in empty pockets. She decided against catching up with Whip though, putting that conversation aside for later and instead turning her gaze to Midas as he peeked his eyes over the shoulder he was buried in.
“Hey babe. It’s good to see you again,” Crystal greeted, her voice softening and expression growing slightly sorrowful as Midas’ own expression lacked recognition. “You can’t remember anything, can you?” she asked, gaining a slight smile when Midas looked faintly panicked at her pointing out what he’d subconsciously thought about trying to hide. “It’s okay. We had a hunch. I’m just surprised you ended up with these two,” Crystal consoled, turning her gaze back to Whip and Ian. “It’s funny, because I almost tried to contact you for a rescue mission a while ago. For the same kid.”
By now Whip was used to Crystal not starting from the beginning when talking about events, and he could only shake his head with a wry smile. “You gonna get around to telling us who this guy is? Or are we going to have to play guessing games instead of bodyguards like you initially wanted?” he asked, shifting his hand that had never left the hilt of his sword to let Crystal know he was uneasy with this stranger smothering his friend.
Luckily for both of them, the man realized the pieces of the situation he’d initially glossed over and gave a sheepish cough while reluctantly straightening slightly. “Sorry,” he apologized quickly, raising a hand to rub his eye under his glasses but still remaining reluctant to fully let Midas go. “I was… overwhelmed. Thank you, so much, for taking care of Midas and bringing him back.” For a moment he bowed his head low in gratitude, shifting Midas to the side before rising again and wrapping Midas close to his side this time. “I’m Hesopher Clandel. Midas’ father.”
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First
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Extra long post again because I wanted 2 pics for this one but I didn't want to spoil by having that 2nd pic on the top of a post X'D
I finally reached the scene that motivated me writing this entire story |D It feel so strange to reach that goal, but I can officially say that Midas' daddo is still alive and well, and full of hugs and kisses.
Party At the End Retrospective
Now, I had a lot of thoughts appearing when I was translating, and now I can coherently discuss them. Let’s talk about it and give it a rundown. The essay does not chronologically follow the events in Party At the End (mostly).
Glossary:
Translating
Introduction
Time Frame
Who the Fuck is Ladra (and Blue Zoisite)
Cinnabar
Sensei & Antarcticite
The Temple & Museum
They’re Putting a Gem on Display? (and The Gems That Don’t Appear)
Ghost & Cairn (and Lapis)
Padparadscha
Sphene, Topaz, and Peridot
What? There’s Fog on The Moon?
The Foodmakers (and 84)
The Fantastical Anatomy of Obsidian (and The Planet They Mention)
Gem Reveal: The Beryls, Red Diamond & Fluorite
The Young Ones
Diamond, Bortz, and the Admirabilis
The Rose Garden (and Rutile)
Bonus Round: The Party
Essay is below. Long, long post ahead, be warned (It’s a really long post guys).
Hi. This came about because I've seen a few of your posts with a list of George Lucas quotes and feel you've done a lot of research. In any of the quotes you've come across, has Lucas ever mentioned that if Qui-Gon had survived the fight with Maul that Anakin would've remained in the Light? I'm aware Filoni has discussed this topic but I haven't come seen anything from Lucas on it. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Hey there! Sorry for the incredibly late reply, had to gather all the relevant quotes and lay out my thoughts!
Note #1: This is such a very, VERY big subject, so the answer is gonna be long. Good news is, the bulk of this post is gonna be quote pictures and GIFs! If anybody wants to read another breakdown of Filoni’s interpretation of the Prequels, that also takes Canon material into account, I’ll refer you to @gffa’s masterfully-written post here.
CONTEXT:
The question asks about this interpretation that Dave Filoni has of the fight between Qui-Gon and Darth Maul, posited in Disney: Gallery - The Mandalorian:
Many people go with the notion that “Dave Filoni is basically George Lucas’s ‘Padawan’, so what he says is in line with Lucas’s vision.”
So... is it?
SHORT ANSWER:
No.
Lucas never publicly mentioned any of this was the case. At times, he outright stated the contrary.
LONG ANSWER:
#1: Why the title "Duel of the Fates"?
Quotes from George Lucas and John Williams mention nothing about how this duel between Qui-Gon and Darth Maul will decide Anakin's fate.
Per John Williams, it’s about the conflict between Good and Evil.
Probably why, instead of being re-used in the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan like it was intended to, Lucas used this theme in the duel between Yoda and Sidious. A duel that Matthew Stover sums up beautifully as:
“The expression of the fundamental conflict of the universe itself. Light against dark.”
#2: When is Anakin's fate decided, according to Lucas?
The notion that Anakin was doomed to fail from the get-go is going against the principle of choice that George was adamant to include in the Prequels.
Yes, fate/destiny plays a part in Star Wars, but whether you follow it is contingent on your choices and the choices of those around you. As Lucas puts it:
If I had to think of an example:
Darth Maul was Darth Sidious’ apprentice and eventual heir. He chose to give in to his arrogance - as he usually tended to - and mess around with Obi-Wan instead of just pushing him down the reactor shaft with the Force and secure the kill...
... and that cost him his future. For the rest of his life, Maul was never able to gain access to the power he had once been promised, when he was destined to become so much more.
So, in this case:
Anakin is the Chosen One. AKA, the Force chose him to destroy the Sith (who keep trying to enslave the Force and bend it to their will) and bring Balance to the Force. That’s his destiny, his fate. However, Anakin chooses to join the Dark Side and, thus, completely destroys the Balance and leaves the Force in darkness.
But this fall wasn’t decided by the outcome of some duel.
It was a progressive process that was mainly decided by Anakin’s own flaws and choices...
... and Palpatine’s manipulations (which influenced Anakin into making those choices rather than wiser ones).
Says Lucas, the first real step was killing the Tuskens in a fit of rage and then vowing he would never let anyone close to him die again. Another step was killing Dooku, knowing he was defenseless.
The definitive final step, the moment where Anakin’s future was truly decided and he turned, was letting Mace die and joining Sidious in order to stop Padmé from dying, AKA going against the Fates and the natural cycle of life and death.
(Quick aside, that’s where the George Lucas stroke of genius is, for me; Anakin goes against the Fates by going against his own fate. Brilliant.)
Each of these actions individually aren’t enough to cause one to fully fall to the Dark Side. Put together, with one action building up to the next? That’ll do it.
It was a collection of bad choices that made Anakin fall. Conversely, it was one good choice that made him rise again.
The Force is screaming at Luke that if he’s not careful, he’ll become the next Darth Vader. Luke eventually manages to listen to that warning, reject his hate for Vader and embrace the compassion he has for his father... and thus allows Anakin to finally embrace his own fate, fulfill his destiny and bring the Force back to its natural balanced state.
Note #2: Out of 507 collected quotes from Lucas, there’s about 214 that are relevant to this subject. In none of the 214 are the Jedi ever mentioned as having had a hand in Anakin’s fall. Which brings us to the next point:
#3: Are the Jedi compassionate?
Here's what Filoni says about this (left) vs what Lucas says (right).
Note #3: these are only the quotes where Lucas explicitly says Jedi are compassionate. There’s a bunch more where he explains that Jedi are allowed to love and specifies the difference between greed and compassion, which can be found in this post.
Filoni says the Prequel Jedi should be compassionate, in theory, but aren’t (but not Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon is ahead of them all).
Lucas says Jedi are compassionate, period. Note how he doesn’t make a distinction between “Prequel Jedi” and “OT Jedi”. They’re just Jedi.
#4: Qui-Gon & the Jedi Order.
To sum up Filoni’s reasoning in the previously posted quotes:
The Prequel Jedi lose the war.
The Prequel Jedi talk are political.
The Prequel Jedi are dispassionate.
The Prequel Jedi were deceived by the Sith.
Yoda says the Prequel Jedi are arrogant, in Episode II.
Qui-Gon hasn’t been allowed on the Council.
CONCLUSION: The Jedi have lost their way by becoming detached, dispassionate, arrogant and political, which is how they were deceived by the Sith and joined the war and couldn’t sense Sidious even though they were in the same room as him every day. The only one who is still being a Jedi the right way is Qui-Gon, who is compassionate and knows that you can love people without possessing them. Because of this viewpoint, he hasn’t been allowed on the Council. By extension, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka are also sort of special because they’re coming from his lineage.
Dave Filoni isn’t the only one who holds Qui-Gon up as this figure who is ahead of the curb, the one True Jedi who is still follows the real path. A lot of fans who read the EU books, specifically the Jedi Apprentice series, see him this way. It’s actually a very popular interpretation.
But almost all the stuff that’s in the Jedi Apprentice series comes from Jude Watson, Dave Wolverton, David Levithan and LucasFilm editors Sarah Hines Stephens and Jane Mason. Not George Lucas.
Tahl, Siri Tachi, Qui-Gon’s characterization, these were all elements decided on by Jude Watson and Dave Wolverton in order to create sources of drama for the stories they were telling. Aside from the script and Terry Brooks’s novelization of The Phantom Menace, they basically had carte blanche to define Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.
So what did Lucas say about the Jedi and Qui-Gon?
#1. Jedi are indeed allowed to love. Qui-Gon isn’t the only one who knows you can love someone without being attached to them. That’s standard Jedi stuff.
It’s part of the teachings.
We know this because Anakin - despite having problems applying it - literally explains the Jedi principle of non-attachment to Padmé in Episode II.
#2. Qui-Gon in Lucas’s mind. Let’s just look at how Lucas describes the character itself.
Okay, so Lucas says that Qui-Gon is a rebel, a maverick, who is bold and doesn’t go along, who pushes the envelope and moves beyond the bounds. He’s not neutral, he’s got firm principles and does things his way. He’s a strong, noble, centered character.
But nowhere does Lucas say that he’s “ahead of the rest of the Jedi” or that he’s “special” in some way. He’s a Jedi who disagrees with the Council and operates differently than they usually do. That’s it.
On the contrary, while Lucas does grant Qui-Gon’s instinct about Anakin is correct, he defines his decision as “wrong”, “controversial” and “the source of much of the problems that develop later on”. And if you look at the quotes piled on the left, there’s a very clear similarity drawn between the characters of Qui-Gon and Anakin. So the decision of taking Anakin from his mother and demanding the Jedi train this kid filled with fear as a Padawan straight away is meant to be framed as an impulsive move on Qui-Gon’s part, not unlike one Anakin would make.
But hey, let’s look past Lucas’s words, at what was said about Qui-Gon right before and right after The Phantom Menace was released:
Pretty much the same stuff. Headstrong, maverick, unruly. He feels and acts on instinct, rather than hanging back and thinking, he’s very empathetic. He’s more prone to action than your average Jedi.
At no point, be it in Lucas’s words or in the material released alongside Episode I, do we see anything about him “being more compassionate than your average Jedi” or “being the only Jedi to know that you can love someone without getting attached”.
Why?
Because it’s a character trait that was added later, in the now-non canon EU, and not by Lucas.
#3. Why the Jedi get deceived by the Sith.
The Jedi know the Dark Side has clouded everything. It’s not just the Sith. It’s the Hutts, it’s the corrupt Senators and greedy bureaucrats, it’s the pirates, etc. Tracking down the Sith’s specific brand of evil is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
The Jedi are one of the last meaningful beacons of light in the galaxy and they’re just being overwhelmed. They’re being deceived because instead of meeting them on a battlefield, the Sith decided to use politics (which the Jedi suck at) as a weapon and turn the very thing the Jedi were fighting for into what brings about their end.
But hey, no mentioning of “lack of compassion” or Qui-Gon, here. Moving on.
#4. The Jedi being political & losing the war.
They’re ambassadors of the Senate. They’re not political, their role is diplomatic. We see them continuously abstaining from getting involved in politics until the war forces them to.
Then, when they’re in the war, they’re getting manhandled by literally every politician shown in TCW (because of course they are, they’re warrior monks; once again, they suck at politics).
They lose the war because they’re not soldiers, they’re diplomats. They didn’t wanna fight it in the first place, Lucas makes it clear that they were drafted into service. And the reason they didn’t dodge the draft is because the Separatists were enslaving planets and hurting people by testing weapons on them, neutrality be damned.
It’s clearly shown, multiple times throughout canon, that the Jedi don’t want to be involved in it and yet Palpatine continuously orders them to keep on fighting.
Now, the war does make the Jedi lose their way and compromise on their principles. It’s designed to do so, it’s one big political manipulation (and seeing as the Jedi suck at politics, they fall for it). And sure, they do lose sight of the little guy to focus on the war effort, but all that really does is that the bulk of the galaxy doesn’t mourn the Jedi’s downfall, it doesn’t cause that downfall.
So again, it’s got nothing to do with them being dispassionate or anything like that.
#6. What Yoda really meant by saying Jedi were arrogant. George Lucas comments two times on the subject of “Jedi arrogance” in the director’s commentary of Attack of the Clones.
So the Jocasta Nu scene is meant to represent this idea that the Jedi are completely disarmed in front of the upcoming conflict. They’ve grown lax, complacent, they’ve lowered their guard (which happens, in times of peace).
Note #5: To be fair towards Madam Jocasta, she couldn’t have possibly suspected that Dooku - once the best Jedi in the Order bar Yoda - erased Kamino from the Jedi Archives because he had become a Sith about 15 years prior.
Still, them being complacent has nothing to do with them getting “dispassionate” or “detached”.
Like, even if they were (which they’re not, as pointed out in the previous section and point #1: they are compassionate and they are allowed to love), it wouldn’t be relevant because being less compassionate isn’t what makes you miss a planet getting erased from the Archives. If anything, they were so compassionate and trusting towards Dooku that it enabled him to sabotage the Archives the way he did.
Then we get to the Yoda scene.
Here’s what Lucas had to say.
While Yoda is generalizing, the subtext in his words is: “Obi-Wan, cut the kid some slack, you can be arrogant too, sometimes.”
Which, to be frank...
... is a fair point.
But I’d argue that’s part of an arc Obi-Wan and Anakin go through, in Episode II.
We start out in Episode II and their relationship is good. They’re joking around, there’s a symbiosis, Obi-Wan’s the by-the-book one, Anakin’s the boundary-tester, they complement each other. That’s why the elevator scene is there, it’s to establish what their relationship is normally like.
And Lucas said in 2008: you wanna see Anakin (and, by extension, his relationship with Obi-Wan) under normal circumstances? Watch The Clone Wars.
So they’re all good, minus the occasional bickering you’d get in any parent-child relationship... then Anakin sees Padmé for the first time in 10 years and she calls him a “little boy”. This makes Anakin overcompensate in hopes of impressing her and causes tension between him and Obi-Wan.
From that point on, Anakin gets more impulsive and petulant than he usually is, and Obi-Wan becomes more of a stern, overprotective, helicopter parent.
They both think they know better, and they both have valid points:
Anakin is better and much more skilled than your average Jedi and so a lot of the concerns Obi-Wan expresses aren’t necessary, he’s just nagging and questioning him pointlessly.
But Anakin does also have a tendency of getting too cocky, overestimating his abilities and putting his own emotional wants before his duty, which usually gets him into a lot of trouble.
By the end of the movie, Obi-Wan learns to put faith in his Padawan’s judgement and abilities...
... and Anakin does begin to put his duty before his wants...
... but he still lets his emotions rule him and overestimates himself, which costs him an arm.
While we’re on the subject, let’s segue to the next (and second-to-last) section.
#5: Obi-Wan as a teacher, compared to Qui-Gon.
So regarding the thing Filoni said about Obi-Wan not being a father figure, but a brother figure... I mean...
... but that aside, Lucas makes it clear that Obi-Wan is basically filling both roles, as a mentor.
Lucas doesn’t pin Anakin’s failure on Obi-Wan. As he explains... he did his best.
The problem wasn’t that Obi-Wan wasn’t up to the task, it’s that Palpatine was always sabotaging his teachings so that Anakin would learn the theory but never apply it. Had Palpatine - I dunno - tripped and fallen to his death upon being made Chancellor, Anakin would’ve turned out A-Okay.
But in reference to Obi-Wan’s attitude towards Jar Jar and Anakin, in Episode I... that’s also part of Obi-Wan’s arc.
Note #6: In 1996, while developing the storyline for the Prequels, Lucas did indeed toy with keeping the idea (which was hinted in ROTJ), that "Obi-Wan was too ambitious and failed to train Anakin", as I explain in this post. But as development went on and the character of Qui-Gon was created, the idea was retconned in service of re-centering more on the main themes of the Prequel trilogy: how a democracy becomes a dictatorship and how a good man becomes bad. Spoiler alert, the answer to both is that “it happens from within.”
In Episode I, Obi-Wan’s arc is learning to listen to “the Guide”.
Obi-Wan’s attitude isn’t indicative of the Jedi in general. It’s just who he is. Call it a personality trait or a full-on flaw, he’s a guarded, prudent person. As opposed to Qui-Gon, who is much more bold and listens to his instincts and the Living Force, instead of bogging himself down in thought. Because of this, Qui-Gon is likelier to listen to people like Jar Jar and Anakin (aka, the Guide) than Obi-Wan.
There’s literally a comic published in 1999 about this specific thing.
When Qui-Gon finds Jar Jar, Obi-Wan thinks it’s pointless and it’ll just weigh them down. When Qui-Gon finds Anakin, Obi-Wan is wary 'cause this kid might be dangerous... and he is proven wrong on both accounts. Jar Jar is key to the Naboo’s alliance with the Gungans and Anakin wins the Battle of Naboo.
So guess what? While he’s reluctant at first, he decides to train Anakin, with or without the Council’s approval. He takes on some of that rebelliousness Qui-Gon had. He learns to trust the Guide.
Skip to 10 years later, and his go-to is listening to the Guide, this time personified in Dexter Jettster.
There you go, that’s Obi-Wan’s arc in Episode I.
It’s not about Obi-Wan being “uncaring”, it’s about him learning to believe in the Guide as Qui-Gon would.
#5: Dave Filoni’s headcanon.
Finally, I wanted to clarify that this does not mean “Filoni doesn’t know jack about Star Wars”. A lot of the stuff he says about how the Force and the Dark Side work is similar to what Lucas said and did. For the most part, he does get it.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the conversations in Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian (including the part where Dave talks about the Prequels) must've been edited around a bit, for pacing purposes. Y’know, like, trimming some of the various "uhms" and "likes" and "y'know" and side-trackings, that sort of stuff which happens all the time with documentaries.
‘Reason I think this is that every time Dave brings up interpretations like this one, he's always careful to clarify that this is just his headcanon. It's how he sees things, not necessarily how they are.
So my guess is that Dave must've mentioned - at some point in that conversation - that this was all his headcanon, and that bit just got removed because the editor(s) felt that it was obvious and didn't need it to be stated out loud.
Note #7: It’s worth pointing out that I obviously have no definitive proof that Filoni’s headcanon is not in line with George Lucas’s as I’m not a telepath, and, really, all I’ve got is a collection of quotes, whereas Dave spent the better part of a decade working alongside George and learning from him. I can say, though, that it doesn’t align with everything Lucas said and didn’t say *publicly* about the Jedi in the Prequels.
Also, while he’s not talking about Jedi (he’s talking about Kallus and Zeb becoming friends in Season 2) I think this quote could give us an idea of where Dave is coming from with this interpretation:
So Dave is clearly describing a personal source of inspiration in the above quote. If that is also where he’s coming from with the “Prequel Jedi were detached/Qui-Gon as ahead of them” interpretation, I can’t really blame him for choosing to see the Prequels through a prism that makes them bearable for him. At least he’s engaging with the content rather than bashing it.
Which is more important than you’d think.
I’m a Prequel kid, and grew up loving BOTH the Original Trilogy and the Prequels, with a preference for the latter. But I couldn’t properly enjoy these films (for which I was the target demographic) without also seeing 30+ year olds (who weren’t the target demgraphic anymore) criticize the Prequels and The Clone Wars into oblivion because it wasn’t what they were hoping for.
Then one day, in university (2014, good times), we were asked what our favorite film was. I reluctantly said my favorite movie is “Revenge of the Sith, and I know it’s a bad film, but screw it, it’s my fav--
-- and all my classmates - Prequel kids like me, now grown up - interrupt me saying that “What? It’s not a bad film! The Prequels are awesome!” and listing everything they loved about those movies for a full minute.
Holy shit, how good that felt.
And Dave clearly gets that, as indicated by this quote.
If you go back to what he says in Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian, he admits stuff like the Jedi Council isn’t something he was expecting. But rather than whining about it, he had the creative instinct to put a spin on the Prequels that came from a personal place, which enabled him (and other people from his generation) to like them more.
And I’m grateful for that.
But when people online say Dave’s headcanon is exactly what Lucas was going for when making the Prequels... sorry, but - judging only by the George Lucas quotes I’ve collected till now - I’m gonna say that’s not the case.
Which means that depending on how you see the Prequels, this headcanon about the Jedi Order is either an improvement on what the author originally intended to convey, or a deterioration.