Just a moment of nerding out to help fuel everyone's The Dragon Prince elf horn headcanons, here's the national park service's breakdown of horns vs antlers:
"Antlers—found on members of the deer family—grow as an extension of the animal’s skull. They are true bone, are a single structure, and, generally, are found only on males.
Horns—found on pronghorn, bighorn sheep, and bison—are a two-part structure. An interior portion of bone (an extension of the skull) is covered by an exterior sheath grown by specialized hair follicles (similar to human fingernails). Horns are usually found on both males and (in a diminutive form) females.
Antlers are shed and regrown yearly while horns are never shed and continue to grow throughout an animal’s life. One exception is the pronghorn, which sheds and regrows its horn sheath each year." (source)
Summarized!
Antlers are made of bone and shed every year
Horns are made of bone with an outer covering of keratin (the stuff fingernails, hooves, and hair is made of), and don't tend to shed.
The sexual dimorphism is different too, antlers are usually exclusively a male thing where horns may differ from male to female but usually both have them.
(caribou have antlers on both males and females, though in different seasons, and pronghorns shed parts of their horns every year though, so there's flexibility within the general rules!)
(deeper dive of science and how it connects to the show under the cut, but CW for blood and arguable gore, as the science of antlers is a bit graphic, but I wouldn't say it's worse than certain deaths that occurred in season 7.)
Because they are made of bone at the core, horns are likely to bleed when broken closer to the base, but de-horning/trimming the tips off of horns is commonly done in cattle to keep them from injuring themselves or each other with no adverse effects for the animal. Imagine a much larger version of trimming the claws of a cat or dog - the tips are fine to go, but get too close to the base and you're hitting live tissue and veins.
Antlers have a different growth cycle. When they first grow, they're covered in a thin skin and fur layer called velvet, which is absolutely riddled with blood vessels to bring nutrients to the antler. If the velvet is broken, it will bleed, and scraping the velvet off is often a very bloody affair. Shedding it is literally just . . . scraping off a layer of skin and letting the antler wear and harden, it looks brutal, but the deer don't seem to be particularly distressed about it. If the antler is broken while it's still in velvet, it will bleed. If it's finished growing, though, an antler will calcify and harden, meaning there won't be blood in the antler itself once the velvet is removed (unlike horns). That's why the stumps don't bleed when they're shed later in the year. (source)
On that note, neither antlers nor horns have nerves the way the rest of the body does.
Antlers only have nerves in the velvet, and those are shed with the skin when the antlers are done growing. Again, despite the velvet being actual skin with nerves in it, they don't seem to mind it! I'm no professional, but I would hazard a guess that since there's no further need for extra blood to the area to grow the horn, reduced blood flow results in reduced sensation as they go to shed the velvet.
Horns don't have nerves in the tip, which is how dehorning can be done safely with cattle. When the horns first start to grow, the nerve and bloodless tip will be most of it, and it can be removed without harm to the animal, and if that trim is maintained, it will never grow longer horns. However, once a longer horn is grown, there are nerves in the thicker base just as there is blood.
Now because the Tidebound exist though, I'm going to delve into coral and shells for a second too, though mind, I don't know any of this shit nearly as well as I know horns (lived around cattle and deer) so this is what I could glean from some basic research and is by no means definitive
Coral don't have nervous systems the way we would think of them at all, with only the most basic of nerve nets throughout their bodies allowing them to react, and only minorly, to stimuli. Many scientists believe this means they don't feel pain as we would perceive it, but rather just register touch and cannot differentiate sensation. Others suggest that since they react by withdrawing from harm, this qualifies as some version of reacting to pain. However, since coral have no brains or backbones or advanced nervous systems, it's all rather theoretical. (source) So, my personal take would be that Finnegrin can probably feel things touching his "horns" regardless of where it is (where Terry probably can't at all, if he's not in velvet, and Rayla wouldn't be able to feel the tips of hers), but he wouldn't necessarily be able to differentiate what the touch is, just that it's there.
Shells are a whole different beast. The shells of vertebrates like turtles are way different than the shells of mollusks and gastropods, but the latter are the ones we see in Tidebound elves. Those are super unique in this conversation because not only do they not have nerves, those shells aren't living tissue at all. They don't even have proper cells. Those shells are constructed of very basic proteins and minerals that are hardened over time into the shell around the creature that lives inside. The shell can't be felt at all, though if the creature inside has enough of a nervous system to feel sensations, they will likely feel the shell move around them if there's contact with it. (source)
So, from what we know about elves!
If Moonshadow elves have true horns, Runaan should have been bleeding heavily for a few minutes from how low that horn was broken (though likely not enough to do him serious harm from blood loss, he'd just feel a bit iron deficient for a few days. Horns tend to clot quickly when broken). We can assume they did not do this because of the kids' rating of season 1, even if the writers knew horns should bleed. He also likely felt a significant amount of pain, and probably has a nasty headache and possibly a concussion from having his head rattled that hard.
In contrast, even if his horn was carved to fit the caps he wears, Ethari probably wouldn't have really felt it (other than vibrations in his skull). However, horns can be trained to grow in certain configurations over time, and the caps might have been a training tool to ensure they grew into the desired curve, and then just left on as decoration or armor. Moonshadow elves seem fond of dual-purpose everything, so a metal cap that's training tool, decoration, and armor all at once is right up their alley.
(on the note of Moonshadow elves, also, it seems likely that the "wood grain" we see on their horns is also willful decoration, as the Moonshadow children we witness don't have that grain, and the interior of Runaan's broken horn lacks any evidence of it. As we can see in this shot with Ruthari, the patterns also aren't of the same style from elf to elf, but the grain on Runaan's horns is mostly lines like his tattoos, and Ethari's horns and tattoos both feature delicate swirls.)
Sunfire elves definitely have horns, though they are intriguing as it seems there's not a very strong delineation between skin and horn. However, that could also just be art style, as there's plenty of horned animals that have fur or skin roughly the same color as the base of the horn around the base of it. This includes some pronghorns, which you'll remember are the neat antelope that sheds the keratin layer on their horns and regrows it but keeps the bony core, and antelope. We've pretty much covered how their horns would work with the Moonshadow elves, as they're pretty similar, though Sunfire elves' horns are smaller and their vulnerable zones would be as well, though they're also thinner and likely more vulnerable to breakage (hence, I imagine, all the armoring on them).
Skywing elves are an interesting conundrum though, because unlike Moonshadow and Sunfire elves, they have a quite varied set of horn styles. Astrid seems to have a fairly basic goat horn curve (as does Kosmo).
Nyx's horns curve so sharply that from many angles she appears to have two sets, but in her concept art we can see that she just has a secondary branch at the very base of her horns, which is reflected in Hendyr (the Skywing Dragonguard) as well. And all of these people are among the 20% of Skywing who have wings, so it's not genetically linked to that trait. The lobed pattern of Nyx and Hendyr's horns appears to be more standard, with most unnamed Skywing also having horns that are layered to look like feathers. The Elder is like this as well.
Suroh, the little Skywing boy Rayla meets in Bloodmoon Huntress, however, has goat horns like Astrid - except placed lower on his head, and having ridges that hers do not.
So far though, all of the Skywing seem to have some common traits: their horns are relatively short, and curl close to their heads, having ridges or lobes that mimic feathers. All of them resemble various types of goats, all are definitely horns.
I dunno what the fuck was wrong with this guy, why does he have dragon horns when none of the others do, what makes him special?
Everything. Everything makes Ibis special. I miss him so much.
*coughs* anyway, Skywing elves likely have a fairly strong culture of training their horns to grow in specific directions, based on the variance in how they curl. Also, if Astrid's horns continued to curl in that direction they would absolutely eventually stab her if they hadn't stopped growing or been trained to grow that far from her head. Imagine if she had the tight curl we see with Suroh but with her horn placement.
Now we get to the Earthblood, where things get more interesting.
Those are definitely goat horns, and not even decorative mimicry like Astrid's, just straight up bighorn ram. Simple. Case closed, right?
Nah.
Because this little kid is an Earthblood from the same community, who clearly seems to have branching going on in his head ornamentation already, which is generally a trait of antlers. (Though, there's those pronghorns again.) Unfortunately, we don't really see enough to confirm whether they're antlers or horns, but let's just assume antlers for the fun lore of it all. Earthblood elves start growing them at a much younger life stage than most antlered animals. It also makes sense why Earthblood elves seem to keep shorter hair than many other elves - the antlered ones have fucking velvet to worry about. Can you imagine getting dead, bloody skin out of your hair??
What's interesting is that Terry's horns do not have the branching I would expect from antlers. As a matter of fact, his horns are virtually indistinguishable from a Moonshadow elf's, though he doesn't have the purple wood grain effect we're used to seeing with them (again, my guess is that that's painted on anyway). So based on Terry alone, I would actually say he also just has horns, and N'than and Earthblood Callum (and the elves that indulge Earthblood Callum as a trope) being the only indication they sometimes have antlers.
oh but then, then we get into some Really Interesting stuff with Mukho. Look at that. Do those look like antlers? They do seem to have branching, but they also have what appears to be flat plates. I would actually hazard a guess that Mukho is one of the Earthblood we heard about back in the day, with horns of crystal or stone rather than antlers or goat horns. That one, I don't really know how to make work biologically, which is why I didn't give a rundown for it up top. This one's just magic.
The Tidebound also have some interesting shit going on, though. Finnegrin here has coral on his head, and if you remember, coral has basic nerves throughout its body but scientists debate whether it can feel pain as we understand it. My guess would be that Finnegrin and other Tidebound like him can register touch to their horns in a way that Rayla wouldn't be able to feel at the tips of hers, and an antlered Earthblood wouldn't feel unless in velvet, but he wouldn't necessarily feel pain at one of them being broken. He'd just be aware of it.
Akiyu would feel her "horns" even less, with shells being made of basic proteins and minerals and not, strictly speaking, having nerves or live tissue at all.
So! Elves have wildly varying cranial ornamentation and there's some Science about it!
Also, to veer into conjecture a bit, it's worth noting that while Moonshadow and Sunfire horns are constructed similarly, they're likely for very different evolutionary purposes. Moonshadow horns are larger, yes, but are heavily angled towards their back, indicating use either ramming with the length or base (as we see with goat horns) or defense against attacks from behind. Sunfire elf horns are smaller but often angled much more upright, indicating more ability to use them as stabbing weapons.
there’s a science to the formation of fandoms. for example, if the canon of something is too thorough in the development of its characters, then there’s not enough room for much further exploration. in order to build the foundation for a thriving fandom ecosystem, there NEEDS to be gaps in the story, little plot holes and imperfections scattered ~just so~ throughout the narrative that make the audience believe it’s their own idea to expand upon them. that is why the twilight saga fandom is still going strong, and why it’s so hard to write long fics about really good shit.
I am aware, this topic isn’t new, but it bothers me and to my knowledge it’s been a while since it’s been looked into thoroughly - and it’s the s06 mid-season hiatus, so plenty of time to look at things closely... So, let’s dig right in:
"According to the official CW website, Lena is between 25 and 32 years old since her first appearance."
[Source: Wikipedia, which links to a source from November 2018, but there's no mention of Lena's age in that source o.O]
...I am not sure what to make of the lack of source / credit / quote here, so what else do we have?
According to arrow.fandom.com Lena Kieran Luthor is born on October 24, 1993
[Source: Supergirl: The Secret Files of Kara Danvers, a companion book for Supergirl written by Warner Bros. Television, dubbed The Ultimate Guide to the Hit TV Show; page of reference. ].
This much better credited source ties in with her graduating from MIT before 2012, when at the age of 19 she met and befriended Jack Spheer.
And taking over LuthorCorp after Lex got convicted - at the sweet age of 23 - in 2016, and meeting Kara. She was young, but it’s a family business, she’s really smart (has 2 doctorates) and rich and her last name is Luthor, so board-members may have fought her every step, but really had to at least give her a chance, I guess.
And for some episodes and flashbacks those dates internally made sense (outside Katie McGrath being a whole 10 years older than her character ...presumably... Katie keeps her personal info very, well, personal) - and for many others it was / is inconsequential.
In episode 2x12 - set early 2017 - the title card for the flashback of Lena being brought into the Luthor mansion says "20 years ago" and we know Lena was 4 years old when her mother vanished into that lake (a theory for another day) and Lionel Luthor 'adopted' her. Which again puts Lena at being born in 1993.
But then, there's episode 5x06 (set in 2019), which features a flashback with the title card "15 years ago" and shows a teenage Lena and Andrea meeting at Mount Helena Boarding School and go (illegally) drinking. Which would set the flashback in 2004/05, and Lena being 11/12 years old - and in NO WAY would pass for drinking age and sneak into a bar with Andrea!
(Young Lena's actress, Lucy Loken, is born in 1999, making her 20 -!- at the time of filming of that episode. If the actress' age was any indication, Lena would have been 32 in 2016 at her first appearance in the show - which already exceeds the only other not-really-a source for her age.)
Yet, the rest seems to fit her vintage of 1993 again...
A 21 year old Lena, who has been working with Jack in their garage to cure cancer, while advocating at LuthorCorp, gets fired by Lex (who taunts her to go work at Jack's family business, Spheer Industries).
She takes a little time off instead, to grab Andrea and go on their treasure hunt in the Costa Rican jungle.
Their search for the Acratan medallion is set as "five years ago" according to the title card from 5x06 (set in 2020) putting the event somewhere late 2014 / early 2015, just before the series' very pilot.
A short while after that, Lena and Jack start a romantic relationship (3 years after meeting him, putting her at about 22 years old).
In 2016 (four years before the events of 5x06) Lex kidnaps Lena, ties her to a chair and brags about how he turned the sun red.
Lex is taken in by the police / gives himself up (?)
Jack comes running in, comforts a shaken Lena, he invites her to London
In London Lena meets Andrea again, who wears the medallion...
A few months later, Lex is convicted to 32 consecutive life-sentences and sent to Striker's Island
Lena (23) sees Supergirl on TV and ends things with Jack in Metropolis
Lena moves to National City, takes over LuthorCorp and gets interviewed by Kara (and Clark)...
So... yeah.
Most mentions of times and dates are vague, at best. Sources are hard to find. Assumptions are easily made.
Could Lena indeed be older than stated in the only tangible source that I could?
Sure.
That would mean instead of just assuming Lena meeting Andrea was timestamped wrongly, several other mentions of dates and time-frames were wrong / off by some years, but it could work.
What else does that mean?
Kara's born in 1966, was 13 in 1979 when Krypton exploded and her pod got stuck in the Phantom Zone.
Not one, but two decades later - in 2003 her pod landed on Earth, she's still 13 years old... (putting her year of birth in fake documents at 1990)
And in 2015, in the pilot, Kara's 25. Kara is 2-3 years older than Lena.
...or 49 years old and 26-27 years older than Lena, if you add the PZ-years .-.
Then again, now we have to deal with a completely new past and changed series / circumstances of past events thanks to Crisis (since 5x09)...
...
I am not trying to shame the writers on doing anything wrong, the show mislabeling things or the creative heads of not knowing their own timeline.
I could have missed something or may take the wrong source(s) or shown references to be valid!
I - a crazy fan who looks at all the given details - am just trying to make sense of the given facts and the implied timeline.
Is all that really important on the bigger scale of things?
No. It really isn't.
But, for anyone who wants to write fanfics and keep their facts straight, wants to remain somewhat in-canon and make certain points plot-points, or just get their references right, this IS a point worth looking into.
So, I hope that helped some of you or helped to re-evaluate some things.
Or that some of you can add to this and / or correct any mistakes or faulty assumptions I made, so I can figure this inconsistency out and rest more easily.
This morning, the Washington Post published an article titled “Who hates Star Wars for its newfound diversity? Here are the numbers.” It comes to the perhaps unsurprising conclusion that, as ferocious as it has become lately, the toxic subculture that has developed in Star Wars fandom is a vocal minority. But its sampling is still too narrow.
An interesting analysis of an interesting study! I’m particularly pleased to see spikes in abuse being discussed, even if that’s not the main point of the researcher’s work.
I’ve been doing chemistry in school and since I’m on a hilson brainrot I realized that both of them are like unstable elements and that’s why none of their relationships work accept for their relationship with each other
Wilson need more, he need more electrons that’s why he cheats and over compensates he’s trying to fill the void
and house well, he’s too much for anyone else to handle, nobody else has enough space in their shell, their life for him making the relationship unstable
but Wilson does
House either gives Wilson one of his electrons making them both stable or they share and electron making them stable, in constant and never ending orbit around each other.
This is mostly to serve as a kickstarter/resource for new writers in the fandom. To have a database where they know who to ask for advice on specific topics. And for veteran writers to know who to turn to when they need help developing a new skill.
In the end of fest survey we asked about your interest in writing workshops. This is to help me develop the idea further into planning stages. I am tagging you if you said you would be interested in participating, but any writers in the Bond fandom are encouraged to respond.
A couple of you have already helped with this survey but I added a little more detail so if you don’t mind filling it out again that would be wonderful. You can write “see above” for the required questions if you have already filled it out.
