#fanonvscanon

[robin-nightwing-agent37]

You know 99% of all Nightwing fan’s problems can be fixed by literally allowing Dick to grow past his previous editorial decisions and allow him to explore new friend groups, new love interests and create his own unique family. That way we continue the trend of Dick growing into a better more stable person while looking back fondly on the stepping stones that got him there.

This constant relying on stories, love interests and side characters that debuted like 20-30 years ago has got to end. It’s literally turning the fandom into something so toxic that even I considered leaving Nightwing. Pandering to nostalgia gets you nowhere. Let Hollywood show you how well pandering is looking for them! The MCU was successful because of NEW content!

Both Marvel and DC have a history of their best content being content that is new and novel. Batman didn’t get popular until he underwent multiple major changes. The Batman today isn’t the same Batman as he was 20-30 years ago. So why is it that Nightwing is the character where he has to repeat his greatest hits instead of growing past it.

We say we want Nightwing to be Alist and that we want Nightiwng to be up there with Superman or Spider-Man, but then at the same time we don’t allow him to have any other friends, stories or love interests outside the titans or Batfam. And now it’s become a war between both franchises. Dick can’t even get stable elseworld content. He was with both Kory and Babs in Future state, main continuity and in DCAU all so they can appease the fandoms. It’s ridiculous.

Young justice was a breath of fresh air before that got overtaken by fandom demands. You know for all the problems the Batman Arkham Games had, it probably for me had one of the better representations of Dick because he simply got to be Dick Grayson. No ties to anyone but Batman and Robin. That’s what I want. I want more of Dick Grayson being free from restraints and making his own content away from titans and batfam. I don’t want Titansfam or Batfam. I want Nightwingfam.

Idc if Dick has to join another franchise to do it. Idc if DC has to start his own editorial to do it. I just want them to DO IT! It’s so sad to see a once great character with so much potential become the laughing stock of the entire community all because writers, editors and fans can’t behave and care more about their head canons and fanfics than they do good content.

[robin-nightwing-agent37]

Controversial opinion on a topic I've seen come up? Idk, not aimed at anyone, just wanted to rant.

Characters are not static or unchanging because they don't grow the way you want them to. Characters have traits and lore that make it very hard to do anything that would launch them in a direction that contradicts that. When they talk about character growth and change, they are talking about taking an existing character’s lore and using that to guide them in a new direction. Like thinking, “what can I do to make this more interesting” or “What part of their mythos needs to be expanded on?” 

I’ll use Batman as an example. 

Batman is a character where his brand and image centers on him being a noble, hard faced, emotionally disconnected and obsessive guy. He has his set priorities and values, and he doesn't want to deviate from them. This doesn't make Batman an edgelord or make those who want to be as faithful to that characterization as possible edgelords. I get people want him to be this openly loving guy who gives hugs and actually fixes Gotham, but that directly contradicts everything that made Bruce Batman in the first place.

Gotham is a reflection of Batman, who is a reflection of Gotham. The whole point of Bruce being unable to put down the cowl and letting it take over his life is because he feels it is necessary to be that way in order to change Gotham. That's why Bruce Wayne is the mask. It's what makes all those amazing arguments and interactions he has matter. It's why Dick can't work with him. It's why Hal calls him out. It's why Diana argues with him. Batman is this way because he evolved to be this way and that's what makes his lore unique and fun to explore. 

It's not a character flaw or DC refusing to change. Batman isn't static, he just has lore that you can't just toss out because you want him to get married to Catwoman, have kids and be a shining beacon for love and hope. Batman is a multifaceted character who has shown that he has the capacity for love, happiness and joyfulness but it's hard for him to express those emotions because he doesn't want others and ultimately himself, to get hurt (again). Batman is gritty, his mythos are dark and crazy. It what makes those moments of emotional vulnerability or glimmers of hope that are much more impactful and memorable. Batman grows as character by having his crusade questioned. His ideas challenged. By expanding on his unexplored mythos or exploring some of his relationships with underutilized characters. By giving us a new and fun twist on one of his villains.

My point here is that there is a difference between wanting a character to grow and change because it further’s their existing lore and wanting a character to grow/change because “what if this happened” or because someone doesn't like how that character is supposed to be. People change, yes, but at the core of their being, they are exactly who they want to be. It's up to oneself whether they actually want to change. And for Batman, Batman wants to believe the only thing that needs to change is Gotham and one should always keep that in mind.

For the “what ifs” or getting the version of the character you want, Fanfic is a great place for that. That's why it's there. That's why we have fanon and these amazing communities where we can discuss personal head cannons. 

We don't have to like everything in canon, but that doesn't mean one has the right to negate said canon and just treat existing characters like OC’s and write them OOC. Respect existing character’s DEFINITIVE mythos.

[robin-nightwing-agent37]

I can't take Nightwing Solo seriously anymore

I just can't lol. Taylor has really shown that he knows really next to nothing about how dick operates as Nightwing. Portraying him as someone who needs protection and not as someone who is competent and intelligent enough to know he needs to lie low and cover all his bases because he has a hit on his head and also someone who wouldn't deny help if he knew he absolutely needed it.

This is the same character who has done the following:

Created his own suits

Created his own weapons

Has never been shy about asking for help if he felt he needed it

Fought the likes of Lady Shiva, Talia al Ghul and Deathstroke

Has shown time and time again his detective skills are unmatched by many

Has led three incredibly advanced teams

Has been trained by Batman, Justice League members, and other advanced people

And despite all of that, you're telling me that he would not have had that entire event under his strict watch knowing he had a hit on him? He would have had multiple contingencies in place and most definitely wouldn't have denied Babs being there. In fact, I feel Dick would have preferred Babs to be there to set up cameras and monitor for any suspicious activity.

Again, Dick is not a marshmallow. He is not someone who needs to be protected. He is someone who just needs support when he asks for it and to not be treated like a child. This is not to hate on Taylor, but he is writing Dick as fanon Dick and that is at an extreme disservice to who Dick is as a character. If you like this run, that's awesome, but at this point it's not Nightwing/Dick Grayson, it's just some idealised version of him that is just so OOC that it's really hard to even enjoy reading it without wanting to pull my hair out.

[middleearthfanonvscanon]

Elf women are not allowed to go to war.

I know, I know - the recent Hobbit movie trilogy has caused a number of fans to get indignant over the inclusion of Tauriel, a female captain of an Elf-army, because they think that an Elf-woman in battle is outside of canon. Also, I know that for many fanfic writers half the fun of writing LOTR/Hobbit fanfiction is to have a setup where some elf-woman wants to do something like learn to use weapons and everybody around her is shocked and appalled that a woman could even think of such things. After all, where's the romantic tension in a fanfic if a woman who wants to go to war won't be socially stigmatized like Mulan if she does?

But not only does canon not back up this notion of Elf women not being allowed into battle, canon flat out contradicts it. Here’s Laws and Customs among the Eldar: "There are, however, no matters which only a ner (adult male elf) can think of or do, or others with which only a nis (adult female elf) is concerned. There are indeed some differences between the natural inclinations of neri and nissi. . . the virtue of the nissi in this matter [their healing powers] was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly. . ." So although Elf women tend not to go to war as frequently as Elf-men, there's obviously no social stigma attached to doing so if they do want to - and when they do, they're definitely just as capable as their male counterparts!

TL,DR: Elf women do go to war, just not as often as Elf men.

[middleearthfanonvscanon]

Elves are asexual/Elves are hypersexual.

Whether you think Tolkien's Elves could never stoop so low as to engage in sexual intercourse (much less to enjoy it for its own sake), or whether you think Elves are constantly shoving their junk up each others' arses, here are two links you can visit - What Tolkien Officially Said About Elf Sex and Twenty-Two Words You Never Thought Tolkien Would Provide. The first link debunks the notion both that Elves are "above" enjoying sex and that Elves are hormonally charged, sex-starved animals who can't go a week without screwing the crap out of each other. The second link is a list with Elvish words for. . .well now, that would be telling, wouldn't it? Essentially, Elves do enjoy sex, but the thing is, they equate sex with marriage and they marry once in their eternal lifetime literally for forever. Finwe married again when his first wife died, but he was an exception to a very nearly absolute rule, to the point where the Valar (the demigods of Middle-Earth) had to have a big long debate and create a new Statute that allowed him to marry a second time. And even then they concluded it was a flawed decision. Also the desire for sex tends to go away after they've had children, because they do have other things they like to devote their time to (weaving, embroidery, jewel-smithing, music and poetry, language and lore, etc.) If the concept of simply not being interested in sex after a point in life seems inconceivable, I would encourage you to consider that, unlike our threescore and ten (or fourscore now), Elves can live for thousands of years, and in those thousands of years they do actually experience physical and spiritual change.

TL,DR: Yes, Elves like sex. No, they don’t make a parade of it like we do.

[middleearthfanonvscanon]

Legolas definitely has golden hair/Legolas definitely has dark hair

Because movie!Legolas has golden hair, most fanwriters assume that this is stated somewhere in canon. The fact is that Legolas’ hair color is never stated in any of the texts. According to “The Hobbit,” Thranduil ( or “the Elvenking”) has golden hair that gleams in the light of woodland fires, but his wife (who is probably Silvan, a Wood-elf) is almost certain to have dark hair. Legolas may have dark hair - or he may have golden hair. Canon just doesn’t say.

TL,DR: Legolas has no stated canon hair color.

[middleearthfanonvscanon]

Legolas’ mother/Thranduil’s wife is dead

I’m not sure quite how this one got started, but in most any fanfiction about Legolas and/or Thranduil you will find that the Queen (whatever her name is) has been tragically killed, more often than not in defense of a very young Legolas.

What is true is that we have no canon information on Legolas’ mother. We know of her only by implication, as with many characters in Tolkien’s writings, particularly women.

What you must understand about the Lord of the Rings and Tolkien’s work in general is that Middle-Earth is basically Tolkien’s version of an English mythology, and in old British mythology women aren’t generally talked about much except as being the desired lady of the gallant knight or the wicked temptress who must be resisted or something of that nature. The point is, for being an English mythology Tolkien talks about women quite a lot.

That being said, the fact that no mention is made of Legolas’ mother doesn’t mean she’s not there to be mentioned. Legolas’ father is the King of Mirkwood and he barely gets mentioned at all. In fact I can tell you exactly how many times he’s mentioned in LOTR: once during the Council of Elrond when Tolkien is basically doing the roll call for who’s there (Legolas is introduced as “the son of Thranduil”), once during the chapter “The Field of Cormallen” when Legolas mentions him in passing as “my Elven-lord”, and once in Appendix B of “Return of the King” when he meets up with Celeborn in the middle of Mirkwood and renames it Eryn Lasgalen.

In “The Hobbit” Thranduil doesn’t even get a name - he’s mentioned throughout as “the Elvenking” or “the elf-king” like in a fairy tale, and only when it’s necessary to mention an important figure of Mirkwood. So you see, even as the male ruling figure of an elf kingdom, Thranduil barely gets mentioned, so the fact that his wife the Queen isn’t directly mentioned doesn’t mean she’s not alive and kicking. In fact, given Legolas’ fairly light-hearted temprament and occasional naivete, it doesn’t seem likely that he’s suffered such a personal and devastating loss as the death of a mother.

Unlikely - but not impossible. Mirkwood is by LOTR a very dark and dangerous place, infested with great flesh-eating spiders and partly under the shadow of Dol Guldur, and Thranduil has no Ring of Power to fight it, only whatever good magic he can employ himself. It might well be the kind of place where rare is the Elf who hasn’t lost at least one close relative over the years.

It’s merely that canon doesn’t say one way or the other. And I know what I make of that :)

TL,DR: Canon never states or implies that Legolas’ mother is dead.

[middleearthfanonvscanon]

Nerdanel has red hair.

Nerdanel doesn’t have nearly as many fans as do other First Age characters, but the fans she does have are very loyal indeed (deservedly so!) and as such I’m perhaps not so sure that I shouldn’t leave this one alone.

Be that as it may, the idea that Nerdanel’s hair is red like her father’s and three of her sons’ is not only not stated in canon, as many assume it is - it’s even flatly contradicted in one place (as quoted by Dawn Felagund from an issue of the Vinyar Tengwar). There it’s explicitly stated that Nerdanel has brown hair.

If you don’t ever get a chance to read the issue for yourself, you should also understand that never in any other place does Tolkien write that Nerdanel herself has red hair.

In “The Shibboleth of Feanor” (which is in HoME 12 “The Peoples of Middle-Earth”) Mahtan (also called Urundil) has hair that’s “brown with hints of coppery-red”; Maedhros’ nickname of “Copper-top” clearly indicates his hair color; the twins Amrod and Amras share a mother-name that means “Top-russet;” but Nerdanel is almost conspicuously left out of the red-headed descriptions. Tolkien states that red hair is actually extremely rare in Elves, so that if Nerdanel herself had it he would have written so there.

More telling yet is the statement that Russandol, Ambarussa, and Ambarussa are all stated to have got their reddish-brown hair “from their maternal grandfather” or from “their mother’s kin” - never from their mother directly.

Only one conclusion to be drawn: Tolkien’s Nerdanel is a brunette and not a red-head.

TL,DR: Nerdanel is likely brown-haired, not red-haired.