Hello dear Skye,
I´m currently brainrotting over Fate again and fell especially back in love with the tragedy of Saul and Andreas (who i ship btw; like how could someone not ;)
That they were very close is canon, period. But there are also some aspects that may be not ofiicially canon but which I love-hate.
For example, in the 2nd book "Lighting the Fire" it says, that Andreas asked Saul to watch over Sky like "you always do for me". (I don´t know the exact wording, since I haven´t read it in English but in German, so I hope you´ll forgive my spelling mistakes)
And in an interview Andreas´ actor has stated that Andreas doesn´t hate Saul because he killed him (or attempted to) since he a person who takes things like that personal. Ken also says, that Andreas considers emotional bounds as weakness (as we can see in the series) and that he struggles with showing affection.
My question for you would be, why do you think that is?
Why does he have such a - i don´t wanna say hatred but i can´t think of another word - towards Silva?
And against the popular opinion that he was brainwashed, why do you think he follows Rosalind without a question?
I hope I don´t overrun you with this, I just wanted to hear your opinion.
I, for example, think that Andreas is hurt ´cause saul didn´t blindly trust him with his orders, since he maybe knew from Rosalind that Aster Dell was the Blood Witch hotspot. I know, it´s a bit contradictory to the theory that Andreas doesn´t take anything personal, but people (and especially feelings) are contradictory.
Sorry if I overwhelmed you with all of that. I didn´t mean to, it´s just something I think about and struggle to find answers to. So I thought it would be easier if I talk to someone who (hopefully) gets my point.
Anyway, love have a wonderful day and I hope to hear from you
Best Wishes :)
idk if you realized when you hit send this would absolutely make my week! on a Monday no less, thank you!!! I loved hearing your thoughts and please feel free to share more! Andreas, ˚♬ ﾟwhat a man, what a man, what a man ♫⋆｡♪ ₊˚♬ ﾟ
Because of your message I went back and watched the Ken interview (god I love him he cares so much about his characters) and to your point, I think it's fascinating that Ken says in one question "Andreas doesn't take anything personally, even Saul ‘killing’ him," and then in another question he says that is favorite scene to film was the sword scene, the line "I don't know whose fucking piece of shit is, but it's not mine."
Hello??? SIR! That is as personal as you can GET, insulting the fuck out of Sky's/Saul's sword. I personally interpret that line as Andreas talking about Sky, not just the sword, the "not mine, also a piece of shit [who wears an apron]."
I watched to the vid a couple times bc he mumbles a bit but something occurred to me that never did before, he plays Andreas as not taking it personal that Saul tried to stop him (aka he knew Aster Dell was wrong but he did it anyway) because he was loyal and obedient enough for Rosalind he really was prepared—even expected—to "die" for the cause.
BUT
As long as I've been in this fandom I've never considered that there's nothing in canon that would indicate Andreas expected Saul to be the one to take in Sky. I now think that Andreas had full expectations that someone else would raise Sky, specifically NOT Saul.
Because Ken says "Andreas was worried about how sensitive baby Sky was, so one of the reasons he could justify abandoning him was that he didn't want sensitive baby Sky to grow up in Andreas' violent, military-esque world." However, part of him hoped that Sky would grow up and get stronger and "unbreakable," and when he realizes that no, Saul is the one who raised him, "weak, sensitive Saul," he's fucking furious. All of the "I want what's best for my son uWu" goes out the window when he realizes that Saul Silva is the one who raised Sky instead of someone more tough. And I have to assume he had picked out someone to raise Sky (where is his mom? shhhh don't ask too many worldbuilding questions in this universe) but for some reason that message never got across, whether things happened to fast for him to ask that person, or maybe Saul just ignored his wishes (I could see him doing that, he's honestly moralistic to a fault, I could see him twisting around "Andreas wants this other person to raise Sky, someone innocent and out of the picture, but I deserve this punishment, I deserve to pay penance for 18+ years bc I killed this man [sorry I digress]).
So when Andreas realizes that it's actually weak, sensitive Saul that raised Sky into "a useless piece of shit that's not mine," that's where we get the rage. It DOES get personal.
I think 90% of his hatred comes from Saul usurping his role as Sky's father and not making him to be whatever Andreas’ definition of tough is.
(cut to the scene where Marco asks Saul if Sky has any of Andreas' bloodlust and Saul, extremely detachedly, saying no, he intentionally tried to raise Sky to be more compassionate and “stamp it out of him” or w/e)
I think the other 10% comes from just plain bitterness. He let Saul “kill” him without being able to retaliate for 16 damn years. He had to admit to himself that he chose the leader who doesn’t hesitate to tell him he’s going to “die” and go undercover for probably 40% of his life by the time he shows back up end of season 1. Farah would never ask that of Saul.
And to be fair I don't even think Ken is wrong talking out of both sides of his mouth, agreeing with your point 100% that Andreas just IS that contradictory!! Andreas can say he doesn't take anything personally while also going and getting himself killed because he is so emotionally attached to Beatrix. He absolutely "takes it personally" that Roz won't send a search party so he goes out against her orders and promptly dies. He doesn't care that Saul killed him but he DOES care that weak/emotional Saul raised his son. He hates Sebastian’s guts presumably because Basti was always “following Saul around like a sick puppy,” hello, jealous your crush is getting attention from another guy much??? Between Roz & Andreas, Rosalind is the only one that truly doesn’t take things personally (except blood witches maybe but both sides had decent points and I wish s2 had spent more time fleshing them both out).
Okay whew I hope you enjoyed me rambling about Saundreas, it’s been too long since I did so and I guess I had a lot pent up 😅
So for the second part of your question,
Personally I don’t ascribe to the theory Andreas was brainwashed; I guess I can see why some people want to give him a better start to his redemption arc but I just see way more evidence that Andreas was fucked up following someone fucked up than brainwashing… oop anyway not what you asked but do you have any thoughts one way or the other?
Anyway, to answer your second question:
All my thoughts on Andreas’ obedience hinge on the line Saul says at Aster Dell before the sword fight, “I know Rosalind gave you a sense of purpose. I know you're indebted to her.”
Record scratch! WHAT is that debt? It implies a blackmail of some kind or at least some pretty strong coercion.
I truly think the writers just forgot about this line bc it would have answered so many questions! I tried to answer this in the fic I wrote between S1 and S2, It Was Just Red, and my answer was that Rosalind helped Andreas’ wife conceive Sky using blood magic. This ascribed to S1’s type of blood witches, which was “humans that can do magic through blood sacrifices,” and that definition was thrown out the window in s2 in favor of “water fairies, but make it blood.”
