#good debate

[berniesrevolution]

@theliberaltony. In any average day i'd be all for unifiying the Democratic Party around Keith Ellison. Who is actualy my representative and i've met him. However I don't think that message is correct right now. Sure we always need to fight but sticking to our side of the political spectrum won't help anything right now. There is 10-20 Million people who will lose health insurance. People from every group. poc, native american, women, poor people, LGBTQ+, everyone.

I guess the disagreement here is whether both we and you believe we can and need to both protect our health care system and take the reigns of the Democratic party from an establishment that has increasingly caused the left to lose more and more power.

So really this is a disagreement on tactics. Let’s remember that the protest movement against this attack on healthcare is an electoral move as much as it is an attempt to try and stop the attacks itself, maybe even more so electoral. 

OFA, MoveOn.org, Democracy Spring, Bernie Sanders, Our Revolution, the DNC and the rest of the progressive opposition know that despite all of our coming efforts the conservatives will most likely still gut the public healthcare institutions, that’s not the point.  The point is to get everyone out to protest and resist it anyway. The point is to make sure they won’t be able to do it quietly. the point is to make sure everyone sees what they are doing and the repercussions it will bring. 

The point of it all is to resist while also highlighting the tremendous damage the conservatives in power are happy to inflict on working families of all stripes and use that as momentum to take back state and national gov’t control in 2018/20

- @delendarius  

Just to add my two cents, like I said in the last reply, we can do both. We can fight the Republican agenda and fight for the soul of our party. 

The best chance to stop an Obamacare repeal either is by Senate filibuster or by convincing Two Republican senators that they should vote against it. You aren’t going to change Donald’s mind, and you would have to change the mind of 30 Republican House Representatives. 

But if the people do not take control of the Democratic Party, we will see more major social programs taken away by the Republicans. You do not use the same leadership that has been losing elections the last 40 years and expect different results. 

At the end of the day, the fight for the Democratic Party is a fight to maintain the and expand the social programs that the American people rely on. Without winning this fight, we will see more repeals of programs in the future. 

Basically, it is shortsighted to prioritize this single fight when the big picture is much more important. - @theliberaltony

[infinitysisters]

When the generalisation and ideological stereotype underwear drawer gets opened

I think the debate on Jon Stewart’s ‘Daily Show’ that aired yesterday about “White Privilege” between Jon Stewart and Bill O’Reilly will probably be comparatively speaking, the least chatted and trolled about in history seeing that both TV hosts made great, even-handed, nuanced comments regarding their respective points of view. The headlines I’ve seen that say they engaged in a heated “shouting match” are bs. This was just a healthy, reasoned, public debate; a rare thing to witness. I was reminded of Chesterton’s remark that “People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.”

It was also interesting to observe that as generalizations on both sides got stripped and clarified, that one could sense the appreciation for points made by both. Not surprising by default when Stewart said …anything that ended with a period or exclamation point, but it was also noticeable when Stewart’s normally worshipful audience gave what I could only term as “respect” in the form of a grudging silence (actual clapping possibly being punishable by group-think, audience fatwa in this case) to Mr. O’Reilly, when he made some points regarding the attainable, real-life benefit of self-motivation, and honest hard work, despite circumstances that can be, have been, and are still experienced by people in this society of every race or color with any socio-economic barrier historically “systematized” or otherwise .

There was very little booing or boorishness when those points were made as only the truly mentally deficient, deranged, or sentimental, deep lefty narratives-kool-aid addict would try to speak against what in most democratic-ish societies (those being pretty rare themselves) and times has been known as…common sense.

[didee-anne]

Ror had on the Creation vs Evolution debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham. I missed most of it because I went to the gym to workout but the 40 minutes of it I caught I really enjoyed. Both men were civil and weren't taking jabs at one another, they responded well to the questions asked and had good rebuttals.

[pizzawolves-blog]

all i got out of this debate is that joe biden rules 

and that paul ryan has a bean for a daughter