#grey morality

[st4r-t3ars]

Freedom Burns

[black-ak9]

Category: Ambiguous and Strange Questions

Here's a scenario: Mavis commits a crime so serious in the monster world that it lands her in prison for more than 15 years. No getting off easy.

What does Dracula do? Does he use all his power and influence to break her out, even though it's morally wrong? Or does he let her face the consequences? Would he publicly disown her or just try to sweep it all under the rug?

Now, reverse it. If DRACULA were the one facing serious prison time, what does his father, Vlad, do? Is there a difference in their reactions, or are they the same?

I am very interested in hearing your thoughts and reasoning!

Hii!! Great question ✒️ and very interesting by the way

We're going to divide it into Dracula and Mavis vs Vlad and Dracula (teenager) Yep that man was more mischievous.

Dracula and Mavis 🖤🦇

First, I would investigate whether it was truly her fault or if it was a mistake or a false accusation.

I think his initial reaction upon learning of his daughter's crime would be shock, denial, and guilt, feeling responsible for her actions because he believes he was not a good father to Mavis

He would certainly intervene and use all his influence, favors, and power to do everything possible, but he would not get her out immediately. Instead, he would reduce her sentence (if she was truly guilty) so that she would learn the lesson of the consequences of her actions. Then Dracula would pull strings to ensure she received the best treatment and conditions and to speed up the process toward her freedom, etc.

Would he try to hide it? Of course! As much as possible, because he knows the world of monsters in terms of politics, lineages, rumors, and enemies who would take advantage of this slip-up.

So his strategy would be to “eliminate” anyone who poses a threat to his daughter's integrity in order to harm them more than she has done with the crime she committed; he would also control narratives, erase records, and manipulate information (in fact, I have a vampire OC who is part of the secret monster police, so he would be a great help).

And this is not to “clear” his daughter's name, but to protect the family.

His approach with Mavis would be: Dracula wouldn't yell at her, but he would show her his most fearsome and serious side. He is tough, but he is still her loving father, so he would find a way to support her in any way he could with unconditional love.

In conclusion: Dracula is a clear example of gray morality, But with and for love

And now for a somewhat radical change:

Vlad and Dracula ⛓️ ⚔️

Vlad thought more about the reputation in terms of fear and respect that he and his son commanded from others and, above all, “let's see how far this kid goes.”

As for the crime, Vlad did not consider it morally wrong, but rather cared about how useful and powerful it would be for his own interests, such as: how could this mistake be turned to his advantage? How could he make the best of the situation?

And most importantly: no one would dare judge his son; he would make sure that no gossiping witnesses would affect what mattered to him, and he would leave the rest as a lesson to be learned.

His reaction: drama? Not at all. He spoke to him like a coach and with sharp sarcasm: "Your mistake was not the crime, but being discovered."

And of course, “eliminating” the snoops who were present at the wrong time and place.

And the punishment that would surely follow: brutal and exhausting physical, psychological, and magical training. Since the punishment included pain and discipline.

Honestly, Vlad found it amusing that this was happening, because if his son's crimes caused such disasters, what massacres could he be capable of if he molded that demonic force?

In conclusion: Vlad's "love" is to mold him into someone perfectly invincible: A strong, powerful person is someone who is useful and capable of protecting everyone and fighting to the death against any adversity.

I would have liked to include a small drawing in this :P

Tell me your opinions on this :)

[crooked-wasteland]

Detroit Become Human is my favorite piece of garbage and I think it actually is an excellent example of terrible execution with a cornucopia of good ideas.

[hellaversity]

Geez, nobody in this fandom can defend or feel bad for a morally grey character without being accused of "woobifying" them.

You think Blitzø isn't the only asshole in every relationship he's in and that everyone else he's involved with needs to fix their issues too? Suddenly you think Blitzø just a misunderstood UwU baby who can do no wrong. Fuck nuance.

You sympathize with Stolas because of the way Stella treated him and think him cheating on her with Blitzø was cathartic revenge? Suddenly you think ALL cheating is justified regardless of how your partner treated you. Fuck complexity.

You acknowledge that Sera felt guilty for approving of genocide? Suddenly you think genocide is ok as long as you feel bad about it. Fuck logic.

Same as how simply liking a pure evil character as a CHARACTER (not as a person) will get you accused of being an apologist.

Think Valentino's design is cool and like the idea of VoxVal? All of a sudden you think him r**ing Angel Dust isn't that big of a deal and that his relationship with Vox is healthy and sweet. Fuck common sense.

I wish this black and white mentality, especially when looking at a morally grey series like this, would fucking stop.

[transgwender616]

Is it really gray morality if the characters can still be sorted into basically a hero and basically a villain?

[oddlittlestories]

Okay re Stacy - this is such an interesting case study of morality in the show.

Yes, she violated House’s bodily autonomy.

At the same time, it was pretty clear House was going to die if she didn’t.

Whatever your opinion on her choice, this is one of the fascinating moral points of the show. Although she couldn’t have known the full fallout of her decision, she made a choice that she knew he would see as betrayal. She did this a fully rational actor who decided she was okay with him hating her as long as he lived through it. It was an intense time, and maybe if she’d tried to talk him through it, he’d have found a way to pursue his own harsh ideas regardless. Maybe he’d have died while they were still discussing.

She saved his life. She violated his consent.

Was it right? If you say no, then you’re arguing that people have no right to intervene with suicidality - and in this case, suicidality mixed up in internalized ableism (I would rather die than be disabled). If you say yes, then you’re advocating for violations of consent (it’s okay not to talk to someone, not to try to make them see, not to at least inform them that you recognize they’re in no state to make their own decisions).

One amazing part of House is how often the show explores areas of grey morality, and I think this is a prime example. If it makes you feel a little icky to consider all the different angles of it - and by contrast, of the implied unrelated circumstances? I think that happens sometimes when things aren’t bright and clear.

If she had talked him through it, then we don’t have a conversation about right and wrong anymore. We don’t have to grapple with it as an audience.

But it’s interesting to consider, isn’t it? What do you do in an impossible situation?

[mastomysowner]

Vent valve opened

"One may stray from the path of a man, one may stray from the path of a woman, but there is no straying from the path of a HUMAN!"

Yeah, riiiiiight. It wouldn't be half as appalling if Oda wasn't trying to sell Bon Clay as a morally upstanding hero. He tried to carry out Operation Utopia to the last, was never called out for what he did, "died" a hero, mourned by all, and then went on to live happily ever after.

Not only did he support Croc's plan to kill countless innocents (and played a crucial role in it), but he also seemed to have the fun of his lifetime. On the first page, he looked like he was shocked by those gut-wrenching words and was about to give up the charade, just to immediately spit on everything Koza had said.

His decision to sacrifice himself for the people he likes and help them achieve their goals does not mitigate his guilt. The main theme of the manga is freedom, and he was free to do whatever he wanted with his life, just as those he helped risked their lives to live the way they wanted (Miss Valentine, the Straw Hats, indirectly Ace), but he nonchalantly deprived so many Alabastians of the freedom to do as much as breathe. It's like with Jango, who tried to kill three little boys and a sick girl for money, but sacrificed himself for his dance buddy. Guess Bon Clay just didn't like anyone in Alabasta enough ❤️

I've seen many people say that One Piece is a morally grey series, starting with the MC, but the story doesn't really treat itself and Luffy that way. For example, the Impel Down incident, which caused the most talk about Luffy's grey morals:

A guy from Reddit did all the work for me and summed it up:

Most of the criminals Luffy released joined Buggy and were used for gags, they didn't have time to do anything bad before joining the Cross Guild (they wanted tho).

There are many more examples. Luffy's questionable actions are either swept under the rug or turn out to be the best shit in this sleeve of the galaxy. They aren't part of the story, so he doesn't have to change.

But it would've been an interesting storyline if the usual princess of the arc had turned out to be... let's just say, not outright evil, but honestly deluded, and Luffy helping her made things even worse. Or if he had to not only kick the ass of the pirate rival currently in charge, but also choose a side in a civil war, or if his actions had led to power vacuum (the latter happened to Dressrosa when it was attacked by the Germ Pirates during the Reverie, but it was played for laughs, and Bege just happened to be there).

Anyway, I wrote all this because I went to reread the Koza scenes and read up to chapter 171. Also I honestly think the Gear 5 plot twist making Luffy the messiah destined to liberate the world is the worst thing that could've happened (not to mention that it seriously calls into question the WG's sanity).

Vent valve closed