#hacks meta

[orchidtreks]

Hacks spoilers:

This episode really had me nervous going into it. I didn’t know what to think. I had only seen stills and was like damn, both Ava and Deborah look super happy with these men.

The first half of the episode felt like a comphet speedrun. I was like? How tf are you even catching feelings for someone you don’t even know at all? How are you both so giddy? It felt so aggressively heterosexual that I was literally angry. Right in front of my salad???? Especially when they were mimicking the #Avorah tag that the fans gave! I was like wow. Here we go. I’m ready to be made the butt of the joke …

BUT THEN it all fell apart in the most delightful and incredible way. The pacing was pretty wild and so I felt overwhelmed by that, but the coming apart made the first half of the episode look like an over the top lampoon of aggressive hetero relationships getting pushed into shows where it makes NO logical sense for the characters or the plot. How many shows have we watched do this? Where even not just the hetero ness of it all, but the (almost always) female character getting forced into a relationship where it doesn’t make sense? The romantic relationship coming in at the expense of the plot?

Ava can’t stop herself from being judgmental of the hot guy who is amazing at sex. Deborah cant help herself from focusing on the attention she needs to further her career. No new tricks indeed. They both immediately screw up their relationships with men with their deeply ingrained personality traits we’ve seen them have for five seasons.

Also Marty asking Deborah to marry him… it was the far kinder choice to Marty for her to say no!! She knows him well enough for that.

When Marcus and Deborah said “I do” and shook hands on a business deal with the two of them as equals, I CHEERED! I love this! This show is wild. I am pretty certain there isn’t a romantic Ava and Deborah ending (personally I’m hoping for something ambiguous and open to interpretation). I just love that it’s about all types of relationships. I really don’t think I’ve seen a show do this, ever.

I’m also super intrigued by what they’re choosing to leak as promos too. Eeee!

[sapphcblues]

One massive sign of how far Deborah has come by the Hacks s4 finale is the fact that, even though she’s clearly Not Doing Great, she doesn’t try to push Ava away out of defensiveness.

Even in the beginning of the episode, this is true. Deborah still isn’t comfortable letting Ava see her in a really low, vulnerable state, but honestly, that tracks. It would be odd for her character if she did. The impressive part for me is that she doesn’t feel the need to pick a fight with Ava or construct some elaborate ruse to get rid of her; she goes “hey I think I need to be alone for a bit” and Ava says okay. The lack of drama there was huge.

And then on the boat … the way that conversation started matters. Deborah doesn’t lash out at her until Ava says she isn’t happy, and she does it in a way that seems as much like an attempt to give Ava an out as it is her trying to get distance from someone who notices her pain and asks too many questions about it. There’s also what @sapphicscholar and some others mentioned about Deborah not actually going for the jugular (“you’re the reason I’m not allowed to perform in the first place”/expressing regret over choosing Ava, whether or not she feels it) when I think that’s exactly where she would have gone with it even a season ago. I’m sure to Ava these feel like very, very small mercies, but it’s still a big deal.

Neither of these things are like … the pinnacle of mental health or anything, but that’s realistic for her. I don’t for a second question that Deborah was doing the absolute best she knew how to do, even if some of it still sucked and WAS hurtful to Ava by the end, and I fucking love this show’s writing for capturing the nuance of all that so well.

[cecret-with-a-c]

I think season 4 is really gonna dive into Ava's refusal to let Deborah go:

Does this make me scared of the season finale a month before the season even begins? Yes.

Ava is convinced she and Deborah must work together for the late night show to work and yeah, I believe the same thing, but the show keeps trying to push Ava away from Deborah, and Ava keeps refusing to, quite literally, let Deborah go.

I don't think the show intends to reward Ava's insistence to work for Deborah: when she gets too close, she gets sued, she gets fired and then she is abandoned, if not betrayed. And now, Deborah is growing and succeeding, and Ava remains as her shadow, the ghostwriter behind fifty percent of the comedian's words. Ruby already said it at the beginning of season 3: "You're gonna be working for her [not with her]. You'll always be working for her."

I think Ava is happy with that because she loves Deborah so much and just wants to witness and help her grow and she knows she's a substantial part of that. But Deborah already told her to spread her wings and all Ava managed to write when she was encouraged to work on her own stuff was Deborah's talk show. Deborah might not want to let her go anymore, but the story is almost begging Ava to do so.

I'm sure Ava and Deborah will make peace with each other this season. That is out of the question because these two just belong together. They're each other's person. However, I do think the show wants Ava to let go just a little and bloom. To find her own story. To find something to tell that isn't Deborah's life. Or whatever documentary she was working on on season 3.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the ending of season 4 involves Ava embracing something of her own to share with the world. She might leave, this time of her own accord, to chase a promising project, but that same formula might get old after all these years, so now I'm thinking maybe she'll stay, but she'll experiment with writing comedy for/about herself.

And maybe, just maybe, (the final) season 5 will give us two comedians. Working with each other. I don't know if Ava will be a stand up comedian or a screenwriter or a host or some shit. I have no idea. But I do think Ava is inevitably gonna write about her own life, and Deborah is gonna be right at her side for it.

Obviously, though, anything Ava writes about her own life will obviously feature Deborah. It will be marked and stained by her. It will have Deborah written all over it. I don't wanna get too ahead of myself and say that could be a question posed by season 5, you know, what can Ava write about that isn't Deborah? A doomed question because of course anything Ava writes will involve Deborah, because how could it not? The difference might be that, for once, Ava will be the one telling the story, instead of the person watching from the stage wings.

And if I'm not wrong, the show might end by telling us the final adventures of the one and only Deborah Vance through Ava Daniels' voice and eyes.

[homosociallyyours]

Hacks thought that i haven't quite fleshed out yet but it's cooking

Ava is a coyote.

She's the wild thing that terrifies Deborah. That haunts her dreams. That doesn't back down when she makes herself big and scary. The only one who doesn't run.

She's a threat to all the easiness that Deborah has fought to get-- the civility and stability and safety --and it makes something twist in Deborah's gut because. Why should she want to be wild? To yip and howl and terrorize the people who've settled inside their safe, warm, big houses?

Coyotes can hunt and travel in packs or alone. They will eat bugs and garbage as quickly as they'll eat smaller prey. All to survive. Killing them makes their populations explode, not shrink.

And i want there to be a parallel between Ava's dream of kissing Deborah in S1 and Deborah's dream of being licked by the coyote, but I admit that might be a bridge too far. (Haha. Unless...)

Anywayyyyy many thoughts head full and empty at the same time!!

[sweetheartfemme]

One thing i really love about Deb's character is that she's kind of a puzzle. You have to read between the lines to understand where she's coming from, her motivations. You have to watch for Jean's facial expressions and body language, you have to connect bits and pieces we learn about her past in oreder to make sense on why she's the way she is. And the writers for the most part have done a really good job with D's characterization.

yes—this is such a great take.

deborah’s not the kind of character who spells herself out, and that’s what makes her so compelling. so much of her inner world lives in the subtext—the long pauses, the tightness in her posture, the tight lipped (and clipped) replies, etc. jean’s performance fills in the silence with so much weight, and the writing gives us just enough to piece her together, but never the full picture. it asks us to look closer, to pay attention, to notice when the cracks show and what they reveal.

i'd argue the cinematography does, too. even in 4.05 (the ep with deborah's encounter with emily and devin at the restauraunt), you can tell that it's going to be, for lack of better terms, a "bit of a shit show", but there's a flicker of a moment where jean glances down at ava kissing devin and then emily, and it's only a moment where she actually seems more upset at ava kissing emily. this isn't reflected in the actual dialogue, though, and deborah actually only expresses how lucky devin is. not emily. it's very interesting.

deborah's characterization is careful, but deliberate, and that restraint makes her feel so much more real. a woman who’s built herself out of armor, but never fully stopped bleeding underneath.

[jaggedwolf]

So I've been watching Hacks in 4 episode chunks, which means that I saw 3x07–4x01 in one sitting, and man does that make palpable the mixture of shock and hurt Ava's hit with from Deborah's betrayal. 

Ava's so chill in 3x07. Yeah, she's heading back to LA in a couple of weeks since Deborah didn't get the job. Yeah, her mom is here and making deranged comments like saying her new roommate is the daughter she's never had. Yeah, fricking Kathy Vance is around and ain't that something. 

Yet Ava's remarkably accepting of it all. 

She's able to deal with Nina's Nina-ness with amusement over hurt, and appreciate her mom's efforts in understanding her work. She's truly okay with this stint of working with Deborah coming to an end, more okay than she is in 2x09 and 3x01.  She's going yeah, we're friends, I can leave her with a VR headset for Christmas and feel good about it. She has a tiny conversation with Kathy but doesn't feel the need to stick her head in.

In 3x08 they're back on the Late Night trail and Deborah's being well, Deborah about it, but Ava is still as steady. She doesn't slip with the New Yorker reporter, and she repeatedly pushes back on Deborah while making it clear she's on her team. 

She feels really confident about her place in Deborah's life! She tells the reporter "Deborah can be tough, for sure. But that's 'cause she has really high standards for herself and everyone else. But if you can meet those standards, she'll take care of you."

Except 3x09 happens and it turns out Deborah won't take care of her. Is in fact still scared and reactive enough to lie to Ava's face and pretend she doesn't give a shit about her. Of course Ava realizes that at a certain point, pretending not to give a shit about someone is the same as actually not giving a shit about them.  

Deborah's too important to Ava - see her inability to work on her own stuff despite that being one of Deborah's requests - for her to walk away like Marcus is finally going to.  But Deborah doesn't get to be the only one determining the fundamentals of their relationship. 

Ava no longer trusts her with that. Time to flip the script.

[whichcouldmeanothing]

the writing on hacks season 3 (and the whole show) is so good okay and here's why.

the main theme of the show is older and younger generations learning from each other, which is demonstrated mainly through ava and deborah. it started off with ava learning to respect deb's work and her career and understand all the obstacles she faced. this leads to deborah learning from ava: she learns that her story matters, and that by sharing it, she can connect with people and elevate her comedy like never before, which shapes the main plot of the show.

of course, deb also learns from ava about how to treat others. ava is always bringing up social equity, saving the environment and other political issues. a lot of it is trivial and played for comedy -- but now in episode 8, it has become CRUCIAL to deb's career and ultimately has a fantastic payoff.

further credit to the writing, deb's growth is not a straightforward benefit. it realistically portrays the messy and uncertain process of learning and putting your beliefs into action. from what ava has taught her, deb gets frustrated and "blames" ava for making her want more for herself, because learning is an uncomfortable process and hacks has never shied away from that. also, deb abandons the party with her comedy icons because she chose to stand up for ava instead (which hasn't had an immediate material effect on her career, but shows a very realistic conflict between peers, deb making that difficult decision, and ultimately she is the one who achieves higher success and is rewarded for her growth).

of course deb has a lot of people around her who have similar influences on her. dj and marcus and jimmy all have their shining moments where they also push deborah to reflect on herself and help her to grow. another credit to the writing to include so many nuanced relationships that all contribute something special!

but throughout this season they've really demonstrated why ava is so essential to the show. they told us explicitly at the start of season 3 that no one else has a relationship with deb like ava does, and it extends far beyond fashion advice. ava is the central relationship that has the greatest effect on deb's career because they are peers, and they have both put in the work to understand each other and collaborate. and it's ava's gen z qualities, her brash, entitled, unfiltered personality that facilitates the all of the great fights, confrontations, and discussions that have led to deb's growth.

and now, deb has FINALLY gotten her late night show, and it happened because ava convinced her to apologize. it's because of the dynamic that has been building since s1e1--ava calling out deb's bigotry, the feedback loop of them understanding each other's perspectives and growing into better people and better comedians because of it. that dynamic is the direct catalyst of deb's lifelong dream coming true.

we have had similar victories every season, with ava convincing deb to change for herself. ava helped deb write her special, and transformed her career by convincing her to share her story, and listened when deb started opening up in the first place, and was there all along to cheer on the vast untapped potential of a wounded woman using comedy as a mask, to help her evolve, and learn to use to her work to reconcile and heal.

in season 3, things are a little different. deb has to answer to others. she must face up to some real mistakes she's made, and all the little moments of ava correcting deb's language and questioning her actions, that always seemed like a petty annoyance before--now these very issues are the final test that will decide deb's fate.

when the world starts attacking her jokes, of course deb's strongest instinct is to defend herself, as she's had to do now for years and years and years. she's spent all this time building her career all by herself, one joke after the next, and if she spent one second in weakness or second-guessing, she would've been crushed. for deb, defending her career is her deepest, longest-held conviction, and going against that is REAL change. the question is, can deb handle it at this level? can she drop that defense? can she put respect for other people before herself? can she humble herself, admit she was wrong, and apologize?

with ava's help, she can. and for that, she wins.

[trying-to-get-somewhere-real]

this is a pretty niche post for people equally obsessed with hacks and the bear (so tagging @mollrat101 bc i feel like they will understand what i'm going for here better than anyone), but i needed to get it out of my brain and maybe it will also resonate for people who haven't seen hacks but still feel uneasy about where things might be going with claire (or hacks fans who just want to complain about marty :P) i only recently realized that claire makes me uneasy for similar reasons as marty made me uneasy by the end of s1 of hacks. it's not so much a question of whether i like them as characters or whether i am more invested in a competing ship, but about the work the writing needs to do to get me invested in a deb/marty or carm/claire endgame, and whether the respective shows realize they need to do that work. hacks s2 showed me that sometimes writers will just hand-waive what felt like Significant Issues and expect you to get on board with a relationship that they spent the entire prior season undermining, and i'm now paranoid about how easily storer et al. could do the same thing. if you introduce a character in one way and want me to root for them and their relationship with the protagonist in the long-run, you need to put in the real time and effort to develop them!!

at a high-level for anyone reading this who may not be familiar with hacks: marty was introduced in s1 as someone who had a romantic past with deb who then betrays her professionally about 2/3 through the season after sleeping with her again (seemingly for the first time in awhile). they end the season on very poor terms due to this betrayal. he is also written as someone who doesn't seem to understand why deb's work is so important to her and why her ex-husband's EXTREME betrayal (her creative collaborator who sabotaged her opportunity to be the first woman to ever host a late-night show and left her for her sister) would make her reluctant to be vulnerable with anyone ever again. tbh i believe the actors and characters have real chemistry—much more so than claire and carmy. BUT it never occurred to me that they could possibly be endgame because the writers made him such a villain in s1, and the time it would take to rehab him such that he would feel like a viable choice in the eyes of the audience was not something i expected them to give to that character in light of all of the other characters/plots/themes they seemed to want to explore and the focus on ava and deb as the central relationship (however you view it).

cut to s2: deb seems to kind of be over whatever marty did in s1 (with no explanation) and seems to be jealous of his new fiancee. and then we get an unexpected reveal that he proposed to her in the past and *she* turned him down. none of this really tracks with what we learned in s1, and feels like an easy way to paper over all of his quite serious flaws and make deb seem like the one responsible for all of their issues. there is no real effort to show him growing or making amends. it's just apparently fine now??????

claire is not a villain in the way marty was/is (to me, at least) but we didn't get to know her as an individual separate from carmy, we didn't get to see most of the big moments in their relationship happen in front of our eyeballs, and i generally did not feel that the writers meant for me to take her seriously as a long-term love interest because if they did, we would see the development of this relationship (and get to know this person) much better than we have. but the more i am seeing online references to a possible endgame for them, the more i have hacks s2 ptsd. i liked the bear s2 way more than hacks s2, and so at this very moment i trust storer and co. more. and to be completely honest i don't *really* want the writers to take time away from characters and relationships i care about more in order to develop claire. BUT if she's coming back and they're going to be something in the long-run and they don't take that time? it's just very poor writing to me. all shipping preferences aside, i need them to make me invest and believe that this is viable. you can't just tell me, you have to show me. right now, everything about her and them tells me i'm not supposed to care in the way i care about carm, syd, richie, nat, tina, marcus, etc. and i'm concerned that the people running the show might not realize that :/