#hadestown meta

[earlgraytay]

So I got to see the Hadestown proshot with my partner and my BFF this weekend and one of the things that just kind of hit me like a ton of bricks was--

That the Fates might not be real.

Like, if you think about it a sec- Hades is unarguably real in the world of Hadestown. The story makes no sense if he's "just" a metaphor for death. He has to be a person that you can argue with and plead with and struggle against and maybe- just maybe- melt his heart. Same with Persephone- she has to be a real person who takes pity on Orpheus and Eurydice, goes to bat for them against her husband, has feelings and motivations about this whole mess.

But the thing the Fates do, within the story, is give voice to the characters' doubts, fears, guilt, and spite. When The Chips Are Down is as much Eurydice arguing with herself as it is the Fates bullying her with an accordion. Word to the Wise is as much Hades remembering that Orpheus is dangerous for his rule and he can't afford to be kind when he's been so cruel for so long. Nothing Ever Changes is Orpheus' despair. And of course, Doubt Comes In is exactly that.

The Fates do other stuff, but it's all stuff that could easily be read as a metaphor. It's bad luck that Eurydice's candle gets blown out, that the wind steals her jacket, and so on. There's a few points where they serve as a Greek chorus- Gone, I'm Gone being the big one. But there's no point where they talk to the other characters or have a human role to play in the story. There's no point at which Orpheus has to convince the Fates of anything.

And if you pick that apart, oh my god, does it play into the themes of the show so well.

In the world of Hadestown, Fate is your own blinkered worldview. It's your doubts, your fears, your petty human cruelty, your guilt, and your despair. If you can rise above that fear and that despair, you can change your fate. And Orpheus was able to, for a time.

The thing that makes this story a tragedy is that the characters weren't able to. Hades let his fear for the state of his kingdom take control of him, and Orpheus let his fear that Eurydice wouldn't be there make him look back. And there's a level on which this tragedy was inevitable. People are the products of their circumstances, and fear is a natural part of ~the human condition~- people are always gonna be scared of things and mess up because of it.

But if you can overcome that fear, if you can form a union!! connect with the people around you and grow stronger together, if you can believe in the people you love and the world that could be--

Maybe this time we can all get it right.

[stuckasmain]

The doubt isn’t about Eurydice, the doubt has always been in himself. About himself and his worth. About Hades and the same thoughts. Never their women.

I’m sure I’m not the first to mention this but I saw something talking about/ wondering about the trust and her being there. He trusts her but not himself—- which is the whole point of the mirror with Hades + the wonder if it was a trick

[line-is-drawn11]

Hi guys I saw a truly RANCID and weird Hadestown take on Instagram a few days ago, and I'm still thinking about it, and I wanna complain.

So basically, this guy made a video on his issues with Orpheus's characterization in Hadestown, specifically on Broadway. And to summarize, he says that Orpheus being coded as neurodivergent/autistic is ableist and infantilizing towards his character and also irl autistic men???? He says that Orpheus being neurodivergent coded is used by the show's writing as a crutch to excuse him of his actions and take away his agency. And he contrasts Orpheus with George from Sunday in the Park with George by saying that George faces consequences for how he hurts people while Orpheus doesn't???

This video drove me up the wall. Because Orpheus DOES face consequences for his actions. Eurydice leaving and dying in the storm IS a consequence of Orpheus's actions, if he hadn't been so focused on his song and he had gone to Eurydice when she called, she probably wouldn't have died. Orpheus has to go to the underworld to get her because of his own actions, and HE LITERALLY BLAMES HIMSELF IN THE SHOW MULTIPLE TIMES??? How does the show take away his agency and/or infantilze him. How could Hadestown be construed as encouraging autistic men to use weaponized incompetence 🫩 and everyone in the instagram comments was either agreeing with him or saying that Orpheus wasn't even autistic coded???????

So I'm coming to you guys on tumblr to confirm that I'm not crazy. And that this is in fact an incorrect take. That's all thanks for reading

[susiephone]

I do wonder what the rest of the underworld in Hadestown is like because like. The factory workers all signed a contract. As Hades says, he only buys what people "choose" to sell (I put that in quotes because if Eurydice is any indication, most people are in truly desperate circumstances when they sign and probably aren't thinking clearly, and don't fully understand what they're agreeing to).

I take signing a contract to be the narrative's equivalent to suicide; people make a terrible, irreversible decision because they can't see another way out, and are then trapped forever. Eurydice is literally seduced by death. So that begs the question, what happens to people who die in accidents or murders, or of natural causes? Presumably, by his own rules, Hades can't conscript them.

Are they the fossils that feed Hadestown's furnaces? Are they chilling in the river Styx or the fields of Elysium somewhere? Do they just poof out of existence since Hades has no use for them? Has Hades been neglecting the rest of the Underworld outside his factories and company town?

[drachenfalter]

Gotta admire how Hadestown commits so much to not telling us what is real and what is metaphor that the show downright refuses to tell us at any point if Eurydice is truly dead now or simply a prisoner of the underworld.

Did she die in the storm, starving and freezing and the train is just a metaphor? Except the train and the train tracks are real, as is Hades. So she boarded the train, still alive, allowing the part of her that wanted to stick with Orpheus to die so she would survive?

Ok, but she's definitely dead after she went into Hades' office right? Hermes said so. Well, not quite, he clarifies that she's "dead to the world" because she signed a terrible contract. The fates say she "kissed her little life goodbye" but also talk about Hades giving her "everlasting life" in return. So maybe she died but was given "everlasting life", or that was just metaphor and Eurydice is still alive but might as well be dead because she's stuck in Hadestown, working endlessly. Her next death would be the forgetting, but before she can succumb to that Orpheus finds her and reminds her who she is, "makes her feel alive". She remembers everything (or at least everything that matters). Which leaves her final death. We know that when Orpheus turns around, Eurydice has to go back to Hadestown with no hope to escape. We don't know how exactly she goes back. Does she board the train again? Does Hermes take her back? (Did she never actually leave Hadestown as Orpheus feared and his final look at her was only a vision?) Anyway, in summary, despite Eurydice's death being so central to the story, there's a perfectly valid reading in which she's still alive at the end and it changes absolutely nothing.

[dayas]

Somebody’s bound to have said this before but can we talk about all the different meanings for the lines And you know how those Muses are/Sometimes they abandon you

First: Orpheus being abandoned by his mother, a literal Muse, hence why he’s being raised and protected by Hermes.

Second: Muse in the figurative sense, as inspiration, and it being notoriously fickle and fleeting. Muse abandoning Orpheus while he attempts to finish his song, though he abandons his own Muse just the same.

Third: Orpheus abandoning Eurydice in her time of need. Not on purpose; he’s entirely too wrapped up in his song. But nonetheless, she calls for him and he isn’t there. Unintentional as it may have been, he still abandoned her for the song he needed to complete.

Fourth: Eurydice as Orpheus’s other Muse, half figurative and half literal. Eurydice encouraging Orpheus to finish his song, which causes him to hyper focus on it, while Eurydice abandons him for the stability and comfort she needs. She abandons the unknowns and stormy weather of his world (which she knows intimately) for the shelter, certainty and safety of the world six feet under the ground below.

What I love about Hadestown in part is the depth it gave to Orpheus and Eurydice’s relationship. When the chips were down, neither of them could give the other what they needed: shelter for Eurydice, and an end to the song for Orpheus.

Orpheus also quite literally descends for his Muse (Eurydice) and discovers his figurative Muse and finishes the song. Eurydice realizes that she wants to be with Orpheus in the world above, and that the price for what she wanted was steeper than she knew. They both return to each other and realize (too late), that they are all they need.

Those lines foreshadow all the tragedy to come in a million different ways and yet we watch Orpheus and Eurydice fall in love and believe that maybe this time it will be different.

God. What a show. What a mind, Anaïs Mitchell.

[alyona11]

I just had this thought but… Since Chant states that both Hades and Persephone are deaf/blind it means that if Hades’ wake up song is Epic III, then Persephone’s is If It’s True. Which I somehow never gave a deeper thought because I always think of IIT as of a big character moment for Orpheus but damn it’s really interesting to think about!

How Long is the first time we see Persephone sober and her sudden change is provoked by Orpheus in If It’s True. It’s double interesting because Hadestown Persephone’s sin is her passiveness and sort of inability to say no to Hades in many ways: in her going with him in Way Down Hadestown, in her seeing and clearly not liking the state of the realm in Chant but not willing to fight Hades on that or make the change, in her closing her eyes on her relationship and drowning herself in wine. Orpheus breaking down yet finding powers to stand out for himself and the others and even directly calling her out on her lack of action (at least I interpret the ending of the song where Orpheus looks at her with kind of judgment like that) is what is making her finally put the matters in her own hands and try to talk to Hades.

It again adds to the idea that Hades isn’t the only problem in Hadestown. There are two people in this relationship and both have to change in order for things to work out. We just mostly stoplight Hades as the main problem and a sort of villain in this story because he is so proactive but we kinda ignore that Persephone’s passiveness is complicit in the state of the world and in Hadestown. She needs to be woken up as much as Hades does. It’s Hades who has deprived the dead of their eternal peace but it was Persephone who never said a word. It was Hades who came too early to get her home before her time but it was her who took his hand and walked into the train. I do love the depth it gives to Persephone as a character, she does feel like a real person.

[astralduck08]

somehow, despite tragedy, despite the sadness, hadestown is at its core hopeful.

orpheus loses hope with eurydice, and he goes from the boy "who used to see how the world could be" to just seeing "the way it is." but along the way, he spreads his message. eurydice falls in love with him for it. persephone is called by his song. hermes learned that "it might turn out this time". hades gives a second chance.

and the moment it all hits, that hadestown is hopeful, is during road to hell reprise. when hermes sings "on a sunny day, there was a railroad car. everybody looked and everybody saw, that spring had come again. " because yes, we're singing this old song again and again, and he's starting the train up again...but something is different now. spring has come again for the first time in memory. and they raise their cups to that. to hope, to the world we dream about, and the one we live in now.