#hdm meta

[peetapiepita]

You know how I've been complaining about Everlark and Silverparry deniers this past year. They've been bugging me a lot.

Today I saw a tweet about people being anti-romance these days and harping on the writers whenever the main characters have a romantic relationship. It's getting ridiculous.

I'm now struggling to remember if that was a thing 10/15 years ago when both fandoms were more active. I honestly can't remember because I wasn't on as many platforms as I am now and the ones I had been on seemed very romance-friendly as far as I remember.

On tumblr, I was mainly just THG/Everlark-focused 10 years ago and I honestly don't remember any Everlark deniers coming my way at all. Was it really the case or was it just me living in a bubble?

People today saying Everlark never had romance/they should be just friends are so weird to me as well. I was convinced they were just trying to be different but their persistence is weirding me out. Why does two fictional characters having a romantic relationship disturb you so much? Why are you hell bent on denying what the writer wrote in her books?

I don't know. I'm just really confused. Would love to hear your experience and opinions on it.

[regardstosoulandromance]

phillip pullman really heard “from dust you came and to dust you shall return” and went crazy

[hatters-workshop]

How do you reckon theatrical plays work with daemons in Lyra's world? I know they don't have movies in the same way we do, but I would imagine they have some kind of performing arts. Like I imagine characters in stories would have set daemon shapes, do you reckon there are like... daemon costumes for actors whose daemons don't match the character's shape? Or like daemon... make up? Fur dye? For if someone has something close, but say your cat daemon is white but it's mentioned in the narative that Hamlet's is a black cat. I imagine kids whose daemons don't settle til later into puberty would be very popular in acting circles, as their daemons could change to match the characters' for longer. Maybe children performing as older characters is common in a similar way to how men used to perform on the stage in female roles in the past, so that they can match their daemons to the character's. Or maybe media that is written specifically to be a play has character's daemons left a little vague, like generally feline shaped, or canine, or bird, so that it's left a little more to artistic interpretation for casting. Maybe there's much-talked about versions of certain plays bringing new aspects to the roles by casting someone with one daemon shape vs another, like someone playing Lady Macbeth with a grass snake vs a viper etc. Casting calls put out for people who have certain shaped daemons and an interest in performance.

Or maybe there's daemon swapping (though obviously not touching, though maybe there's ways of faking it, like how we have ways of fake kissing or slapping or stabbing etc in plays in our world, or maybe it's just standard costuming for actors to be covered from the neck down so there's no skin contact) where an actor will be on stage but another person's daemon is performing the role of their character's daemon. Maybe there's a special hidden spot built into theaters, either behind or under the stage for their human to be so that the daemon can move freely around the stage but not tug at their tether, and likewise for the human actor's daemon to hide. But imagine, daemon actors, performing in their own right! Maybe there's a kind of prestige to a play having one or more actors performing with their own daemon as is? Like people celebrating how perfect they are for the role?

[jamlavender]

While neither Marisa or Asriel seem to care much about Lyra the actual, living, breathing person (they hardly know her, nor care to, and they both treat her poorly whenever she’s around), their relationship is made so painful and spicy by just how clearly they’re both haunted - separately and together - by Lyra the abstract concept. That child we had and both abandoned, whose existence tore us apart, devastated our individual lives and has made it impossible for us to be together again in any real way without confronting it, which neither of us can bear to do. She comes up in every interaction of theirs in the trilogy itself and, as someone who’s written hundreds of thousands of words about them and their relationship, naturally overhangs everything shared between them after her conception, even if it’s just the quietly exhausting weight of her absence. This isn’t me saying that they’re sad to be without the actual Lyra, but rather that the fact they aren’t able to address what happened even a little bit prevents them from ever truly being able to be together again, and that clearly causes them both a great deal of pain. Lyra the concept is a shadow that still torments them both, and all they can do about it is repress it and avoid it and be furious about it, because the alternative is worse. PAIN. But it’s very rich to write and read and think about. 

[hellishfig]

one thing that gets me about marisa coulter is her intense self-hatred

it’s not obvious to look at her, so refined and casually cruel, but as soon as you witness her relationship with her dæmon, you see it

her dæmon, the golden monkey, is never named in the books or in the show. all the other people we meet with dæmons (who are important), they have names and speak. they are a part of a person’s soul, and that is made clear through their actions.

mrs. coulter cuts herself off from her own soul. she seems to hate her dæmon, and whether that’s because of the idea that settled dæmons represent original sin or because of her own personal feelings towards herself is unclear. but whatever the reason, she treats her dæmon with disdain, barely ever speaking to him and rarely taking his offered comfort. like her, the golden monkey is cruel and capricious, but he loves her because she is what he is. he is her soul made manifest, and she hates the vulnerability of that.

still, she craves love that she doesn’t feel she deserves. she wants lyra’s love and asriel’s love when she can’t even love herself.

[lordeasriel]

Just thought I'd drop in an idea I haven't seen anywhere else about a possible connection between HDM and BoD. We know the rose oil allows the user to 'see' Dust, but it's never mentioned in HDM. We also know that Asriel somehow got hold of a "special emulsion" that allowed him to photograph Dust. This got me wondering whether the special emulsion is made with the rose oil. What do you think?

Hallo Anon!

That's actually a very neat connection and if I had to guess, I'd say this is on the "very likely" zone of the Canon spectrum.

Though the roses' property have only been scientifically proven 5 years after Asriel's presentation, I think it's a reasonable thought to suggest the special emulsion would share some of its properties with the rose oil, if not being the actual same thing! Asriel could have had some experiments that lead him to the oil itself or he mimicked the effect using something different and either way, I think it connects very seamlessly to the plot.

I like this idea a lot, anon, thanks for sharing!

[appretiartis]

The thing that hurts the most about The Secret Commonwealth is that we spent so much of The Golden Compass learning that being separated from your daemon is traumatic and horrible and how the church wants to sever kids from their daemons and how Lyra barely escapes it and then... She and Pan get estranged from each other on their own volition. The Magisterium gets what it wanted, anyway.

[that-one-blind-writer]

thoughts on the HDM adaption, especially the story/narrative changes they made?

I figured it might be easiest to split this one into sections because I have a lot of thoughts. Warning for a long rambling post ahead, as well as spoilers from all the books😂

Casting

Honestly I just wanna say that I think Ruth Wilson was the perfect choice for Marisa. She’s such a talented actress, and clearly put a lot of thought into the character (especially how having a monkey dæmon would influence her body language). She also does an amazing job at making you feel sorry for Marisa, while simultaneously being terrified of her (most notably being the whole meeting with Lee). I like the casting overall, but Ruth Wilson as Marisa Coulter is definitely my favorite.

Overall Plot

I like it! I think they’re doing a very good job at sticking to the original plot of the books, and even adding a lot from the second trilogy (The very start of the show being the end of La Belle Sauvage, Mary following the rose petals which references The Secret Commonwealth, etc). In case you haven’t caught on, I’m a sucker for Marisa and Asriel, so I’m happy we’re getting to see more of their stories/their points of view. In the original trilogy, everything was mostly from Lyra’s point of view until The Amber Spyglass, so I’m loving the added perspectives from other characters in general.

Dæmons

When it comes to dæmons, I’m a bit skeptical about the adaptation. We aren’t really seeing as much of the symbolism of dæmons as we do in the books. Or maybe I’m just salty that we never got to see Pan’s leopard form, which is my favorite. Either way, I’m worried that the huge scene with Lyra and Pan in The Amber Spyglass won’t carry as much weight in the show as it does in the books. I’m also honestly interested to see if the monkey will talk in season 3. Because he actually does have a line in The Amber Spyglass, where he remarks “why is he showing this to us?” to Marisa in reference to the Intention Craft. He can actually speak if he wants to, and if he does speak, I hope they let Brian voice him.

Characterization

I’m definitely interested in the changes to the main characters, especially when it comes to personality. Let’s get into what I enjoyed first. I like this new vulnerable side of Asriel that we didn’t really get to see in the books (though I worry a nicer Asriel could mess up some of The Amber Spyglass’s most iconic Masriel scenes). I also really love this whole new depth to Marisa’s character that the show uncovers. That being said, I’m not a fan of how they “softened” Lyra’s character (is that the word I’m going for I guess?). In the books, she was a lot more like Asriel. That same arrogant boldness, extrovertedness, and fiery temper. We don’t see as much of that in the show. We also don’t see as much of the significance of lying. Lyra was a compulsive liar, just like her mother. It’s a huge part of some important scenes (such as the line, “Lyra had lied to Iofur Raknison with her words; her mother was lying with her whole life”). In fact, it actually looks like they’re covering up Marisa’s talent for lying with her ability to switch her emotions off. In the book, Marisa had controlled the Specters by lying to them. In the show, she controls them by switching her emotions off. In The Amber Spyglass, Marisa hides her love for Lyra from Metatron by lying. I have a feeling that the show will take that scene and put more emphasis on her suppressing her emotions than lying.

Masriel

Of course I had to give them their own section, I love them. I’m really happy that we’re seeing more of their story in the show. In the books, we don’t really get that much interaction (aside from the iconic mountain scene) until the third book. Which makes their ending a bit rushed. By slowing down and adding more through the seasons, we can really see how much they mean to each other, and I have a feeling I’ll cry harder watching the abyss scene than I did reading it. With the softening of their characters/relationship, I am a bit worried they’ll change too much of their scenes from The Amber Spyglass (I’m shocked Pullman got away with the gag scene in the book, I’m unfortunately not hopeful that it’ll make its way into the show)

TL;DR: I have a few things that irk me, but overall I’m really loving the adaptation. The Amber Spyglass (*cough* Masriel *cough*) is my favorite, and I’m really excited to see it on screen.