#just world

[mbti-notes]

Hello. My friend supports victim blaming. I read that this opinion comes from believeing in "just world" and it makes sense to me. I know in my heart that it's wrong, no matter how many "arguments" he presents because I see them as rationalization. I see this from his POV - he was bullied in the past and got through. But he won't see it from my POV (Why?) - I believe that things just happen *sometimes*. No particular reason. He got bullied because people in his class were trash. (1/2)

[con’t: In other time and place he wouldn’t have been. Kids in 90s and 00s in school were mostly sons and daughters of fearful abusive drunkards. Not anymore, they are fucking amazing today here. But he thinks that *self* is the problem, and from that he comes to conclusion that victim should be blamed for being *weak* - projects his expirience onto the world. He’s INxP, I am ISTP. Obviously weak have their problems to solve but they would do so if they could, so people should guide them instead?]

What is your exact question? Believing in a just world has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, one advantage is that you believe you have the power to influence moral outcomes, but one disadvantage is that “just” is an abstract concept that is difficult to define, which easily creates moral confusion. Not believing in a just world, like you do, also has its advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is that there’s less confusion and more acceptance of reality, but one disadvantage is that there is far less depth of understanding about moral problems and how to resolve them properly (i.e. oversimplification of morality, such a saying that all parents of a generation are this or that). To flip perspective: There are people that believe in a just world who do many good things to correct injustices; there are people that don’t believe in a just world who always shrug their shoulders and allow injustice to proliferate. 

Every belief (remember that belief is not the same as fact) has its advantages and disadvantages, and people often adopt beliefs for the psychological advantages without understanding the disadvantages, yourself included. Every belief system, when used the wrong way or for the wrong purposes, can lead to dysfunctional behavior. In other words, what matters most is not the belief itself (unless it is blatantly extremist) but how a person chooses to use it. As you said, he uses it as a means to project and deflect from his own psychological issues - his development issues are the root problem, not the belief itself. He’s got deep unresolved pain that negatively influences his thinking and behavior. When you say the “weak have their problems to solve but they would do so if they could”, he is a great example. He would think/behave differently if only he knew how, but all he knows is pain, so he can only understand the world through his pain. You can’t guide/help someone until they recognize that they have a problem, and it seems he unconsciously doesn’t want to confront his problem, which is why he projects it into harshly judging others. 

[yourkingmob]

Just World Fallacy

I was finally able to coax google to actually cooperate enough to find this on Slashdot again.

If a civilization has any obligations -- any at all -- then caring for the vulnerable is the first among them. Any system that can't -- or won't -- care for the very young, the very old and the physically infirm doesn't deserve to continue. I know Sparta sounds cool, but I'm kinda glad a people who threw babies against rocks and committed murder for sport aren't around any more. In fact, I would argue that their brutality is precisely WHY they're not around any more. People who are working together tend to weather crises far better than a group of jackasses standing around screaming "Only the Strong Survive!" Teamwork, you know? Maybe your coach mentioned it? Remember John Wayne screaming back, "That's WHAT I got?" No? OK. didn't think so. I'm old enough now to have watched a few of my friends and some of my family die. Heart disease is bad. Diabetes is worse. Cancer is flat-out evil. Real "We had to pick up a knife to save you" surgery is damn near the same thing as surviving a stabbing. I know, I know, those are just words to you. Let me put it in terms you may understand. You'd much rather be eaten by a vampire than succumb to cancer. You'd prefer any videogame death to what most fatal diseases have in store for you. Here's where I'm going to pull back my hood and tap you on the shoulder with a long, bony finger. Eat a perfect diet. Exercise all you want. Revel in whatever gifts youth and good health can provide. I'll still be waiting. I got Steve Jobs. I got Feynman. I got Newton. You think I'm going to miss you? At 35, you'll notice you've lost a step. At 45, you and your doctor will have a little chat. At 55, those chats become discussions. At 65, you begin long talks about the options you have remaining. Believe me when I say they'll dwindle. And this is the best possible outcome, assuming some little patch of slippery ice hasn't gotten you first. So while you're sitting there blithely saying we should kick the sick and the weak to the curb, I'm smiling. Because I know you'll be among them soon enough. And people like you always whine the loudest when I come.

Thank you "jeko" for this comment more than a decade ago, I hope you are doing well.

I could point out that California isn't bankrupt because of healthcare costs. I could do a whole excrutiatingly exhaustive review of just wh

[yourkingmob]

This is borrowed from a random user on Slashdot almost a decade ago, but it's absolutely incredible and echoes my every complaint about the libertarian view on life.

If a civilization has any obligations -- any at all -- then caring for the vulnerable is the first among them. Any system that can't -- or won't -- care for the very young, the very old and the physically infirm doesn't deserve to continue. I know Sparta sounds cool, but I'm kinda glad a people who threw babies against rocks and committed murder for sport aren't around any more.

In fact, I would argue that their brutality is precisely WHY they're not around any more. People who are working together tend to weather crisises far better than a group of jackasses standing around screaming "Only the Strong Survive!"

Teamwork, you know? Maybe your coach mentioned it? Remember John Wayne screaming back, "That's WHAT I got?" No? OK. didn't think so.

I'm old enough now to have watched a few of my friends and some of my family die. Heart disease is bad. Diabetes is worse. Cancer is flat-out evil. Real "We had to pick up a knife to save you" surgery is damn near the same thing as surviving a stabbing. I know, I know, those are just words to you. Let me put it in terms you may understand: You'd much rather be eaten by a vampire than succumb to cancer. You'd prefer any videogame death to what most fatal diseases have in store for you.

Here's where I'm going to pull back my hood and tap you on the shoulder with a long, bony finger. Eat a perfect diet. Exercise all you want. Revel in whatever gifts youth and good health can provide. I'll still be waiting. I got Steve Jobs. I got Feynman. I got Newton. You think I'm going to miss you? At 35, you'll notice you've lost a step. At 45, you and your doctor will have a little chat. At 55, those chats become discussions. At 65, you begin long talks about the options you have remaining.

...Believe me when I say they'll dwindle.

And this is the best possible outcome, assuming some little patch of slippery ice hasn't gotten you first.

So while you're sitting there blithely saying we should kick the sick and the weak to the curb, I'm smiling. Because I know you'll be among them soon enough.

And people like you always whine the loudest when I come.

I wish it was a just world.  I wish things were fair. However, I know better.  Deep down inside, you do too.  We all know better.

...And if you do not, then you are either oblivious: ignorant or a sociopath: dangerously without empathy, or delusional: lying to yourself.

If you dare try to push this 'let the weakest die' mentality on me, I will regard you as I regard all the backwards people who believed horrible racist and sexist things in the past: a relic of ignorance.

[typeyourguts]

MUST-WATCH 

[poetry-by-mashellmarii]