#mlb critical

[kathrahender]

"People hate Marinette because she's a hero with a gray morality"

No, my problem doesn't come from the fact that she's not 100% good. My problem comes from the fact that people love to paint her as a perfect and morally pure good heroine when she isn't one, and my problem also comes from the fact that the show itself doesn't acknowledge how terrible are her stalking and her behavior in some situations/with some characters.

[pascnicos]

this is killing me so fucking bad man how the hell does this man sleep at night knowing this is what he'll be remembered for

[jennrypan]

Season 6 is literally just how many side characters can we force into the plot and make important despite the over inflated cast to begin with and how many shitty adults can we excuse cuz they just "love too much/its the child's fault"

Cuz..why is Audrey allowed to verbally abuse her daughter since she was a child, abandon her and come back to do it again..only to have Two random ass kids out of no where..and then no one says shit. Chloe is just suppose to be a happy little Marinette 2.0 (like Zoe.) ??? After..Andre spoiled her rotten by doing whatever she said and tossing gifts and money at her instead of parenting..but its fine cuz He was just so abused by his scary wife and she was just so mean to him 🥺

Fucks sake.

[scrivello-10]

back on my analyzing Chloé thing

just based on my observations:

the seasons tend to be worked on simultaneously; rn, S6 is airing, S7 has started animation and voice work, and S8 is being written

we know S2 was airing when S3 and S4 were being written (there’s the Vesperia transformation storyboard that was created during S2 production)

imo it’s safe to say that S1-3 were most likely being worked on roughly around the same time.

i’m about to sound insanely condescending, so i’m apologizing in advance.

so speaking from the perspective of the creatives behind the show, and not from a narrative/story perspective, it’s safe to say that Chloé’s arc in S2-3 was always planned, especially considering the info above

what I personally think happened was that Chloé became more responsible in S2, which caused people to believe that she could get a redemption

however, I don’t believe the writers had that planned, especially considering that the seasons were most likely worked on around the same time

so as a result, a lot of the Chloé Fanbase took it personally when Chloé didn’t get the redemption they were hoping for; they had a vision for what they wanted to see, and that vision didn’t come to fruition. What ended up happening was that the Fanbase believed that it was done to purposely upset the fans (hence the “Astruc/the writers ruined her redemption” argument)

like don’t get me wrong, I could easily see where S2 hypothetically could’ve led to a redemption, but that was never the writers’ intention

there’s two points in S2 that stand out to me which tell me the redemption was never happening, and that it wasn’t a “last minute decision” (actively doing a rewatch of the show, so there could be more)

Chloé and Audrey bond over their cruelty and mistreatment of others; after Chloé asks why Audrey doesn’t love her, the two share a brief heart to heart, but both end up yelling at Marinette, and realize they have the same personality.

Chloé revealed her identity as Queen Bee

So both of these things were conscious choices made by the creatives behind the show. The argument of “the writers took away her redemption” doesn’t work here, because S2 is where the “start” of her redemption would’ve happened.

If S2 both wrote Chloé to be more responsible, but then also work it into her story to then bond over being terrible, all signs point to no redemption ever taking place.

again, don’t get me wrong, they could’ve made a different writing choice; you are free to hate the choice made, but blaming the writers for something they didn’t do isn’t fair to them.

With Chloé revealing her identity, there was always going to be some sort of payoff to that; she’s the only one of the S2 heroes introduced to reveal her identity. So again, a conscious choice made by the writers for S2.

Her losing her claims to the miraculous was also always going to happen. From a storytelling perspective, she became a target to Hawk Moth, and the miraculous would be at risk whenever she ever got to use it.

From a more technical perspective (like from the creatives), her arc would’ve been decided before S2 even started airing.

I still stand by the notion that Chloé was never getting a redemption, and that it was a hope from some of the fans, that never came to fruition.

[ozzo-the-wozzo]

I’m not one to usually salt on the show, but man are the weakest episodes in the latter seasons always the Chloe ones. They always feel like a jab at fans rather than their own actually useful thing that moves the plot and characters along, and I’m soooo sick of it like Astruc give it a REST already!!! You already sent her away! Genuinely so what if a bunch of people still wanted her to have a redemption arc- u are a grown ass man who needs to accept that fandoms will do their own thing like who cares 😭☠️

Initially (despite being a HUGE fan of the core five) I didn’t care much about Chloe’s redemption being abandoned/reversed/never a thing (apparently), at least not as much as other people. It felt more like the writers thought to themselves maybe we shouldn’t excuse bullying and even though I thought it was a little dumb, I was chill with letting them do their thing (esp since Chloe had some racist moments in earlier seasons so tbh I really can’t care as much as some of yall sorryyyy lmfao). But ironically now I DO care for the sole reason it has gotten soooo annoying to watch these patronizing episodes over and over again. Outside of Chloe herself, I feel like these are the episodes that are the most childish and where characters are the most ooc (don’t even get me STARTED on Collusion/ Revolution and the fact all of Paris just let a teenager take over 🫩). And yesss yes I know miraculous is a baby show but I still feel like there’s such a level of unseriousness in the Chloe episodes that is exhausting to sit through.

Idk, I guess I was just super duper excited for this episode since it was hyped up, only for it to rehash things we’ve gone through a million and one times because Astruc is getting bullied by teenagers on Twitter. Shits exhausting man and I hope it’s REALLY done for good now 😞

[11kouragekrystal]

I'm convinced the writers are realizing that Rooster Bold's power being every other ability is a huge fucky wucky for the balance of the show

He's my fav, but he's too overpowered. If he had half a brain and decided to summon the butterfly miraculous to him, the show would be over.

[y2khellhound]

Thomas Astruc and Vivziepop also give off the same vibes not only because of their garbage writing, but because like Viv, Thomas tries to lump all religions and cultures together without proper understanding of what needs to be done. He did this with the Yin Yang with Western concepts such as the Black Cat= Bad Luck and Ladybug= Good luck and did the Yin Yang of them on a superficial level of "bad and good makes one entity" without Tikki and Plagg actually having their personalities rub off on each other like they are each others other half. Like in darkness there is light and in light there is darkness is a Yin Yang principle, but of we do not see that. Also using Western Zodiac signs for the Japanese Special Characters???? What?! And don't get me started on how the Kwamis are just Djinn/Jinni mixed with how the Goetic Demons as well as some Pagan Deities are described to be. Vivziepop mashes Christianity and Mormonism with Judaism and randomly made a Welsh Banshee a demon. Not all demons from other cultures are demons in the Western European/American sense. Like even the Cyhyraeth she mentioned is from Welsh, Pre-Christian Mythology. It is more Ghostly than demonic and it is from Folk Tradition and religions which records been lost or altered as a result of outside contact and invasion over the years. Also the Japanese Yokai is a big example of a demon that isn't even a demon in the Christian sense. Pazuzu from Mesopotamian mythology is also another example as he is actually as in the texts, described as a good figure seen to protect infants from Lamashtu who is seen as a villainous Demoness that menaces pregnant women. Pazuzu is also described as a demon-god or as I like to believe, half-demon, half-deity, so a demigod. Also most sects of Judaism are NOT even like Christianity for the most part and are DEFINATELY not like Mormonism. And Judaism is a small religion that for the most part, isn't even a prolysetizing one like Christianity. There's also a lot of ethic religions other than Voodun that shouldn't be touched that have been tainted by white supremacists in the past- Indigenous Religions, Hinduism (See Helena Blavatsky, New Age, and the Nazis), and Shamanism, which is an East Asian religion whose practices and name was used to describe all folk and ethic religions which just...isn't correct ot true at all. There's Tunguistic Asians literally talking about this right now as Shamanism is THEIR practice.

[soundwaveprime]

Marinette is absolutely not responsible for helping Chloe improve as a person and has every right not to help. That doesn't mean however, we are not allowed to criticize her for how her "help" caused more problems and made the situation so much worse. Especially when the show itself brings up how Marinette "tried" again and agian to help and makes such a big deal about it while exaggerating about how much of a lose cause Chloe is, despite how we don't actually see Marinette do ANYTHING beyond getting Chloe to bond with her abuser, which is the exact opposite of help.

Yes Marinette comes from a good house with loving parents and entirely likely she could not fathom a parent hating their child, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize her for intentionally reuniting a victim with their abuser. Especially when Marinette witness throughout that same day Audrey belittling and emotionally abused Chloe non-stop. That's not even mentioning the fact that Marinette getting those two to bond is a LARGE contributor to why chloe backtrack on any progress she made thanks to the fact that the thing Marinette got theoss two to bond over in the first place was being MEAN TO OTHERS!