Scriv

they/she 20 my place for thoughts and theories for miraculous + occasional artwork (ty chamøy for the pfp)

[scrivello-10]

MASTER POST

Canon Stuff

Miraculous Season 6 Chronological Timeline (WIP)

Miss Hound + Vesperia

Proud of her Country

live laugh lesbian

SentiCats AU

(more stuff under #senticats au)

General Info

Miraculous Powers

The Interview

Marinette

Zoé

Chloé

Queen Bee

Ladybug

Kitty Noire

The Lovers

Nine Lives

Mustang Concept

Bunnyx Concept

Carapace/Rena Rouge/Argos Concepts

yeah idk

[scrivello-10]

chat do i restart my SentiCats! AU tarot card collection

it just occurred to me that i was doing those

[levii-athan]

and that makes two!

have officially finished both ladybeetle AND shadowclaw's references, might actually work on comic content now lol

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i’m taking this as a sign to actually work on my SentiCats AU

peak design fr fr

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can someone explain to me why the connection to the Avatar’s past lives is such a big deal

like in ATLA, the past lives were barely helpful. most of the time it whittled down to “do what you think is right” or “restore balance/peace” which isn’t actually informative.

Roku did the most of the past lives in Aang’s time, explaining his relationship with Sozin.

With Korra, Aang was the only one who ever spoke to her, let alone give her helpful info. He’s the one who informed her about Yakone, and who helped her connect to the Avatar State.

With Pavi, she’ll still have Korra to help her navigate the world; it’s not like she’ll be left in the dark. And the other past lives wouldn’t be remotely helpful.

Korra lived in a time where the industrial revolution was taking place; her being sheltered, and raised in an environment that hadn’t moved forward, she had to learn how to navigate her world, which the past lives couldn’t have helped her with.

We don’t know how long the gap between Korra and Pavi is, but Korra would be the only one to really help her, being the most recent Avatar.

[coraljd-art]

Aren't we simply stunning?

[scrivello-10]

quick Zoé blow Chloé up with your mind powers /j

[twistyquigley]

is lila a senti-being?

this is the one question that’s been on my mind since the dirtifiers.

upon thinking about it, i decided that, yes, she is; she seems to never falter, successfully leading multiple lives, deceiving entire groups of people at the same time, being able to assume another identity without doubt within a matter of seconds.

i even considered the concept that lila’s wish was to gain humanity, trading marinette’s in return.

however, i leaned more into the fact that she called kagami her sister, and tomoe her mother. initially, that was what made me consider her a senti-being, as felix refers to other sentimonsters as his siblings. but her being a senti-being didn’t feel right—why would tomoe bring her into existence?

assuming that she truly is in relation to tomoe, i looked into japanese cultures tying to perfection (kagami) and deception (lila). tomoe’s peacock holder design having that symbol on her stomach reminded me of the yin yang symbol, and, in turn, made me consider the balance that lila and kagami might represent.

in japanese culture, there’s a ‘social’ balance containing deception and perfection, being tatemae & honne.

honne represents one’s true feelings and desires, whereas tatemae represents society’s standards within people’s actions; socially respectable behaviour, politeness. essentially an acceptable form of deception.

whilst honne represents perfection, which should be kagami, i realised it was much more similar to lila—yes, she deceives and acts to impress people, but from an analytic and outsider perspective, her desires are abundantly clear.

to me, tatemae represented kagami over lila because of the fact that her existence is solely to impress tomoe. the haiku spoken when she was brought into existence stating ‘dragon above men’ suggested not only hierarchy, but performance to me. she is a dragon (perfect being) above men (humanity, the audience), performing for society’s adoration.

to amplify kagami representing tatemae, i noted that her ryuko design was similar to the principals of kintsugi—a concept which means to ‘honour deception’. in the art of kintsugi, if pottery were to break, it would be fixed in highlighting the cracks with gold instead of trying to repair it and make it appear as if it were never broken, therefore embracing the piece’s flaws, and honouring the break, noting it as part of the piece’s journey. this represents kagami because, yes, her existence was to deceive, however she gained control of her own life. whilst deception is inherently imperfection, kagami honoured the dragon miraculous being the embodiment of perfection, gaining the gold highlights in her design as if to pay respect to the fact that she overcame her own flaws and refused to represent deception.

this made me think about the parts of her haiku, ‘mirror’s reflection’, and, ‘diamond made into a girl’.

talking from a literal sense, this should mean that kagami, the dragon above men, is looking into a mirror (the balance that her and lila hold), and seeing the ‘diamond made into a girl’. this further solidifies the theory that kagami and lila balance each other out.

kagami is a dragon above men, symbolising the deceit that she will perform in her life to satisfy her mother. however, she turns on that, embracing the dragon miraculous and gaining control of her own life. she becomes perfection.

lila is a diamond made into a girl, symbolising the perfection that she should hold as a diamond. however, diamonds represent clarity—in turn, truth. truth is the one thing lila has never embodied, successfully becoming deception instead of perfection.

this leads me to believe that lila is a human, not a senti-being, because there is nothing about her that celebrates or acknowledges her shift; as a human, she is (quoting steven universe), expected to change and grow. this contradicts (and successfully ‘mirrors’) kagami’s entire existence as a senti-being. considering they are one another’s reflection in a mirror, they are the opposite of each other—existing to craft one’s self, and existing as a self that somebody else desires.

in conclusion, i believe that lila is not a senti-being because she, simply, exists. kagami is crafted to be her antithesis—suggesting that lila is a human because kagami is not.

so who is lila to tomoe?

very simply, i believe that lila is tomoe’s blood daughter. we know that tomoe hates men, but we don’t know why.

it’s acceptable to believe that tomoe had fallen inlove with a man and conceived lila, however, upon realising that lila was not the perfect daughter tomoe had wished for, she ignorantly blamed lila’s father, and began to see *all* men as imperfect, leading to her creating kagami with the peacock miraculous to embody perfection in spite of men.

this is further implied because we’ve never seen lila’s father, nor have we seen her lie about having one.

honestly, i’m not so sure about my last part about lila’s father. it’s weak, and doesn’t explain what her wish would be.

[scrivello-10]

peak theory right here

(adding on my own additional options;

Tomoe fell in love with a man, but was unaware that he already had a daughter: Lila. Tomoe wasn’t thrilled, but decided to give the child a chance, only to be thoroughly disappointed by her. idk the man died, leaving Lila, but Tomoe didn’t see her as being acceptable to carry on the Tsurugi legacy, and created Kagami; someone who’s virtually a clone of Tomoe, who fits her definition of perfection

or

the man in question created Lila as a “gift” for Tomoe; like realistically the man would have to be someone of status, and he probably had ties to Gabriel. Tomoe finds that the man’s idea of perfection was very different from hers; she created Kagami to prove a point, not realizing how the miraculous would affect her. The man did genuinely create Lila out of love, and it caught up to him, killing him. Because Tomoe wanted nothing to do with Lila, she went into the foster care system for a while, bouncing between families until Tomoe took her back.

but basically the man in question is the one that “disappointed” Tomoe, and she made the choice to not form any bonds with them)

[scrivello-10]

Chloé is now Schafley Wasp

[miozies]

Pound It!

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back on my mlp resurgence

i will forever stand by Starlight Glimmer’s backstory actually working well narratively

i feel like a lot of people look at it from an outside perspective, and not through Starlight’s eyes

she was what, like 10 years old? her one and only friend got his cutie mark, but was immediately sent away; to a child, losing the closest person to you would be deeply upsetting

Starlight then believed that Sunburst’s cutie mark is what caused him to leave, and abandon her, which started her hatred of them. She was too scared to make friends, because she thought that they’d leave once they got their cutie marks; it’s a valid fear.

just a note; coming from someone who has dealt with bad friendships + people leaving, it’s something that I understand; I still live with this fear that one day, my current friends will leave, and I’ll be alone. So I do understand Starlight’s perspective

While never explicitly stated, it’s safe to assume that Starlight believed her own cutie mark would also drive ponies away.

She definitely took an extreme route, but again, she very much believes that cutie marks destroy friendships; by eliminating the issue, then in theory, everyone can be friends. Starlight not giving up her own is insanely hypocritical, but my own guess is that she knew that cutie marks would cause problems; she knew that her magic was the only way any of this was possible; by covering up her cutie mark, she most likely justified keeping hers.

with the whole time-travel thing, it’s purely for the sake of revenge; she strongly believes that The Mane Six destroyed her only shot at friendship. She learned how they all got their cutie marks, and saw how united they were; by preventing that event from happening, she would be able to have them all feel the way she did, by destroying friendships. She didn’t know that the fate of Equestria genuinely fell on The Mane Six, so she didn’t think that what she would do would have a massive impact.

It’s only when Twilight, the literal Princess of Friendship, which Starlight knows, offers her a chance at becoming friends, that she believes that there actually may be hope for her.

[terrrorbunnii]

Literally don’t even remember drawing this

[scrivello-10]

heeheehee zoebrina

[shmellart]

The Warriors fandom was seriously lacking orange cat jokes, so I took matters into my own hands

Did you catch them all? 😼

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(new oc dropped) (ignore the text)

[miraculous-lesbians]

Leans back in chair do you think Zoe is kicking herself for moving to Paris right as the Knicks are winning the NBA finals

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she’s 100% seething that she wasn’t there to see it in person

(and literally telling everyone about it; none of them know anything about US basketball and are genuinely confused)

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bit of a divergence from what i usually post

but enjoy Coyotecall of Swanclan :3

[scrivello-10]

hear me out guys

since most of the S6 episodes revolving around the Miraculars had them confronting their parents, what if they’re building up to a Chloé and Zoé confrontation towards Audrey?

the show made it obvious in QotD that Chloé is being used and manipulated by Audrey and Noé, and Vesperia has yet to have had her transformation, so it’s possible that in S7 there’ll be an episode involving both of them

like Ivan confronted his dad in El Toro De Piedra, Nath confronted his mom in The Ruler, Adrien had to confront his father (even if it wasn’t actually him) in Mister Agreste, Kagami confronting her mom in Yaksi Gozen, and then again in The Dirtifiers, Nino confronting his parents in The Dirtifiers, etc

both Mylene and Sabrina had to deakumatize their parents in their respective episodes

if Audrey weren’t a terrible person, I could see the episode going more like Mylene and Sabrina’s, but chances are it’ll be more geared towards The Ruler and El Toro

[kenesketch]

zoe and sabrina designs for my mlb x alnst au! ( round 6 outfits btw🫀 )

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zoebrina mentioned!!! my goats are here fr 🗣️🔊🔊

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back on my analyzing Chloé thing

just based on my observations:

the seasons tend to be worked on simultaneously; rn, S6 is airing, S7 has started animation and voice work, and S8 is being written

we know S2 was airing when S3 and S4 were being written (there’s the Vesperia transformation storyboard that was created during S2 production)

imo it’s safe to say that S1-3 were most likely being worked on roughly around the same time.

i’m about to sound insanely condescending, so i’m apologizing in advance.

so speaking from the perspective of the creatives behind the show, and not from a narrative/story perspective, it’s safe to say that Chloé’s arc in S2-3 was always planned, especially considering the info above

what I personally think happened was that Chloé became more responsible in S2, which caused people to believe that she could get a redemption

however, I don’t believe the writers had that planned, especially considering that the seasons were most likely worked on around the same time

so as a result, a lot of the Chloé Fanbase took it personally when Chloé didn’t get the redemption they were hoping for; they had a vision for what they wanted to see, and that vision didn’t come to fruition. What ended up happening was that the Fanbase believed that it was done to purposely upset the fans (hence the “Astruc/the writers ruined her redemption” argument)

like don’t get me wrong, I could easily see where S2 hypothetically could’ve led to a redemption, but that was never the writers’ intention

there’s two points in S2 that stand out to me which tell me the redemption was never happening, and that it wasn’t a “last minute decision” (actively doing a rewatch of the show, so there could be more)

Chloé and Audrey bond over their cruelty and mistreatment of others; after Chloé asks why Audrey doesn’t love her, the two share a brief heart to heart, but both end up yelling at Marinette, and realize they have the same personality.

Chloé revealed her identity as Queen Bee

So both of these things were conscious choices made by the creatives behind the show. The argument of “the writers took away her redemption” doesn’t work here, because S2 is where the “start” of her redemption would’ve happened.

If S2 both wrote Chloé to be more responsible, but then also work it into her story to then bond over being terrible, all signs point to no redemption ever taking place.

again, don’t get me wrong, they could’ve made a different writing choice; you are free to hate the choice made, but blaming the writers for something they didn’t do isn’t fair to them.

With Chloé revealing her identity, there was always going to be some sort of payoff to that; she’s the only one of the S2 heroes introduced to reveal her identity. So again, a conscious choice made by the writers for S2.

Her losing her claims to the miraculous was also always going to happen. From a storytelling perspective, she became a target to Hawk Moth, and the miraculous would be at risk whenever she ever got to use it.

From a more technical perspective (like from the creatives), her arc would’ve been decided before S2 even started airing.

I still stand by the notion that Chloé was never getting a redemption, and that it was a hope from some of the fans, that never came to fruition.

[pandaofsecrets]

You're right for the wrong reasons.

Neither of your points actually prove anything. We've learned that the Miraculous holders can change their appearance at will and hide their identity that way (Cat Walker, Rena Furtive, Fury), so her revealing her identity wouldn't actually be that bad unless you're artificially afflicting characters with the Stupid Virus.

As for her and Audrey bonding over being terrible people, Marinette actively encouraged them to do that, so ????

No, what actually told me a Chloé redemption wasn't happening (and really, couldn't happen) was the temp hero system. A redeemed Queen Bee actively requires actual team dynamics in order to be interesting.

[scrivello-10]

speaking from a writing perspective, and not from how these things affect the lore of the story, or the “what ifs?” that could’ve happened (like changing appearances), what I said does make sense (at least to me haha)

like I do get what you’re saying from a storytelling perspective, and how other characters and circumstances don’t work with what I said

There were definitely things included later on into the show that could’ve changed Chloé’s arc/circumstance, but these elements (like changing appearances) weren’t introduced until S4. Looking back on it, there are definitely ways that the story could theoretically be revised knowing what we do now. Imo however, because these weren’t introduced during Queen Bee’s appearances, they don’t really work in this argument; Chloé wouldn’t know about this, let alone Ladybug (who knows if Fu even knew).

but what I was getting as was that the writers made the decision to have Chloé reveal her identity, which would’ve led to some sort of consequence needing to be written later on

In Chloé’s case it was that she lost the miraculous; in Alya’s case, she had to go into hiding. These were writing choices made, not taking into account the character dynamics/relationships

talking about it from a storytelling perspective, her revealing her identity did make her a target to Hawk Moth, similarly to what happened to Alya; I do think this is where Marinette’s own bias comes in.

Alya is her best friend and someone she trusts, so she believes Alya will be responsible with permanently keeping the miraculous. On the contrary, Chloé regularly bullied Marinette; it does make sense that Marinette wouldn’t trust Chloé to handle that.

Another story element that I do feel is important is who the guardians were. With Chloé, Master Fu was the guardian, and requested that Ladybug bring back the miraculous after they were used. With Alya, Marinette was the guardian, meaning that she was able to make her own decisions regarding the miraculous, and no longer had to act as a middle-man.

with the Audrey-Chloé conversation, the writers chose to have them bond over sharing the same personality (and also chose to write Marinette to encourage it)

The writers choosing to include them bonding over it was intentional; they wanted to show that Chloé still was a bully, regardless of getting the miraculous.

for both of these, there’s obviously the more story based things that need to happen to further the narrative, but speaking specifically about the creatives behind the show, they had purposely written these elements into the show to have some payoff in a later episode/season.

[generalluxun]

My turn!

Kagami also reveals herself pretty much instantly in Ikari Gozen, so that kind of makes 'Chloé reveals herself' a moot point. Nothing ever came from Kagami revealing herself.

Audrey and Chloé bonding: In any sane narrative the protagonist actively encouraging someone to be *worse* to obtain the love of an abusive parent would be treated as a point of failure for the protagonist that foreshadows a future lesson for the protagonist.

And the ultimate Trump card is: None of it matters. Their intentions don't matter. What they put on screen was tue narrative of an abused and neglected child being blamed for her own abuse and neglect. There is no world in which there is any defense of that in a children's show. It's a terrible mistake that needs to be corrected.

[scrivello-10]

don’t get me wrong, I do think that there was so much that could’ve been explored with Chloé’s character that ultimately wasn’t

I still do stand by the writers having a set intention with Chloé as a character, but I do agree that they handled her as a character very poorly. While I personally don’t care whether she gets a redemption or becomes more of an antagonist going forward, a big part of me wishes that they actually chose to explore more of what makes Chloé be Chloé (if that makes sense)

I’m not going to defend the quality of the writing, or list things I wish they did, because what has happened has already happened. I do want to clarify that my original post is in no way defending the writing, but just stating what happened objectively. I’ve said this a few times in the past, but I do hope Chloé as a character gets the same level of depth and attention as other characters have gotten in S6.

Similarly to the Chloé vs Alya example in my previous reply, Chloé, Alya, and Kagami all have a different set of consequences for their identities; Chloé loses the miraculous, Alya had to go into hiding, and Kagami has to actively deal with her mother + risk the miraculous being stolen.

Tbh I haven’t watched Ikari Gozen in a hot minute (mainly bc I find a lot of the earlier episodes to be very boring), but I’ll give it a rewatch; I know with the other heroes (Pegasus, Carapace, Rena Rouge, King Monkey, Ryûko, and Viperion) everyone around them was affected by Miracle Queen, so as far as I’m aware, very few people know their identities (I think the current list is Marinette, Adrien, Gabriel, Nathalie, Tomoe, and Lila?). Realistically speaking they’re all at the same level of risk, but I do think part of Chloé losing her miraculous comes back to a bias that Marinette most likely had.

[generalluxun]

Can I ask what the value of it being intentional is? If the end result is a tale that says 'children are responsible for their own abuse and no one is coming to help them if they act out in any way at all.' Why does it matter if it was pre-planned or not?

[scrivello-10]

when I talk about the intentionality of the show, I moreso mean it as “the writers most likely chose to not give her a redemption early on into the production of the show, so saying that they took away something that never existed isn’t fair to the writers”

usually when I see things like this, it’s related to a different character having a different arc than Chloé; ofc people are free to dislike how Chloé was handled, and dislike how downplayed the emotional/psychological abuse she faced (and critique the writing), but it doesn’t change that Chloé was written the way she was. Unfortunately for Chloé, there never was a “switch up” on her getting a redemption; I highly doubt it was ever meant to happen, even if the writing pointed in that direction

again, I really do not like the writing for Chloé; there was so much that could’ve been done, and her in S2 is when I found her to be the most interesting. S3-5 she genuinely annoyed me because of the constant “DADDY!” thing, but from what we’ve seen in S6, I do enjoy her there.

I really hope that she gets more development, whether that be some form of redemption or retribution, or if it’s her becoming a genuine threat.

I do agree that because of how the writing panned out, it served a very poor message, and I do understand why the Chloé fanbase hate how it was handled.

tbh I have no clue if any of this actually makes sense, so if you need me to clarify anything lmk!! 😭😭

[scrivello-10]

OH ALSO!!

in my SentiCats AU (which i swear im working on trust!!) I’m reworking Chloé in a way where she does want to become good on her own accord, and where she’s aware of her family’s abuse towards her

if anyone who comes across this has any suggestions, or anything you’d like to see please lmk!!

[generalluxun]

Ah okay, So when you speak of intentionality that's just like saying 'Premeditated' when it comes to murder. Considering the outcome, I'd say that makes it worse.

I'd also argue against the idea she was pre-planned actually. Since the earliest storyboards we have are from 2018, the same year that S3 aired. More likely that was when she was introduced conceptually. Season 4 didn't drop until 2021 so there's plenty of room for her existence to be fleshed out in there. I'd say all those storyboards do is argue against the idea that she was made *in response to* people's reactions to the end of S3. Her being in response to people's reactions to S1 and S2 is entirely valid still.

It is always crucial to remember that ML wasn't cleared for 5 seasons out the gate. It got one season, then two more, then two more, then three more, and now 2 after that. Having a solid outline of your 4th season to be aired in 6-7yrs time while writing a show that may not even make it to 3 is generally not how things are done.

*waves at Legend of Korra* There's another show that suffered hugely from the piecemeal seasoning. They were given one season. They wrote a one season plot. Then bam, they got 3 more seasons so they had to rewind Korra's development and start stapling on ideas to fill up the space. I'm not here hash out the merits of the final product but you can't miss the disconnect without being blind.

And again, for me, it doesn't even have to do with redeeming Chloe. She could be pitching a fit as she's taken away from Andre/Audrey/Noe. People in abusive situations do that. Going back to the situation, or another similar one, is EXTREMELY common. It's about showing the *audience* that what happened to her is abuse, and showing them she deserves help(like all children do) and what form that help *can* take.

Honestly I wouldn't expect her to come around on it for years, if we are going for 'realistic'. She's got to build a life time of emotional and ethical frameworks and THAT is a grueling task that doesn't show a clear value until it's almost done.

[scrivello-10]

oh i 100% agree that Chloé’s character was handled extremely poorly, especially under the assumption that this was always the plan from the writers

tbh the only reason I’d assume that the show has a general concept for seasons that haven’t aired, and won’t for a few years, is because Astruc has said that there’s enough material/story to cover 14+ seasons. I do get what you’re saying about there being time to change certain story elements because of how long the production process can be/is.

with TLoK, I feel like the seasons work out better as standalone pieces of media because of the way they were greenlit; there’s definitely an attempt at cohesiveness, but sometimes they did backpedal on certain elements (still love the show fr though haha)

i’ve been talking with a few other people about what we want to see happen with Chloé; given how it was laid out that Noé and Audrey are using her like a pawn, there’s a possibility that she’ll get some sort of development

whether that’s as an antagonist or starting the road to a redemption, who knows (let’s be real though it’s probably going to be the first one 😔)

realistically, there’s still so much of Chloé as a character that can be explored, and I really hope that some of the other writers try to fight in favor of giving Chloé development

ironically enough, given Astruc’s disdain for her, they haven’t written off Chloé at all, but rather given her something related to one of the main plots, so there’s a chance we’ll see more of her in the coming seasons

[scrivello-10]

was looking back on one of my older posts; if these images are real, then i was correct that S2-3 would’ve been worked on at the same time, along with parts of S4 being worked on while S2 was airing (photos below)

S2 started airing in December of 2016, finishing in November of 2018, which is when Sole Crusher was locked (aka officially written and finished) (locked November 9th)

Miracle Queen would’ve started production on September 9th, which would’ve been after Santa Claws (Christmas special i think?) had aired, but prior to the rest of S2 airing

Miracle Queen was locked on October 23rd, which would’ve been 2 days after S2 started airing

so everything in S2 would’ve led up to S3, and there wasn’t a switch up on Chloé as a character (is the writing of her “rise and fall” arc good? not really)

but this does show that Chloé wasn’t getting redeemed; if Miracle Queen existed prior to S2 airing, then her “downfall” had been planned from around the time of S2 being written

it also shows that Zoé was already a character that had existed, and that she wasn’t meant to be a “Chloé replacement” (was her writing good? meh. keep in mind that i am a Zoé fan/stan)

So general timeline:

First episode of S2 to be released was Santa Claws on December 11th 2016 (French Dub)

First version of Miracle Queen written September 5th, followed by a second version on October 12th

S2 officially starts airing on October 21st, 2017, with the Spanish Dub of The Collector

locked version (final version) of Miracle Queen was done on October 23rd, all in 2017

First version of Sole Crusher was written September 14th, 2018, followed by a second version on October 9th, 2018

Last episode of S2 released on November 3rd, 2018 (Swiss-French Dub)

Final version of Sole Crusher is locked on November 9th, 2018

S3 started on December 1st, 2018 (Spanish Dub) with the release of Chameleon

Vesperia’s transformation was storyboarded sometime in 2018, during S2’s airing (tumblr won’t let me add the video 💀💀)