#modox

[askjumblr]

There is a modern orthodox shul in my city and I want to go and see if I'd like it, but I don't know if they'd want me there and I don't want to be disrespectful. There are a few potential issues, so orthodox Jews, I would appreciate your opinions

First of all, I'm trans. More specifically (because I don't know if the specifics matter but I want to provide all potentially relevant information), I am a trans man who has started but not completed medical transition. I'm taking testosterone, which has given me some facial hair and a masculine look, but I've not had any surgeries so I still have female parts. So should I go to the men's or women's side? I've been living as male for my entire adult life, and I prefer it that way, but I think I could still pass as a woman if I shave and put on a dress. I don't want to make people uncomfortable or disrespect their religious observance, which is why I'm asking first. Men, would you be okay davening with someone that has a female body? Women, would you be okay davening with someone that feels like a man and lives as a man? I'm not going to go around telling people, but it feels wrong to be doing something I know goes against your religious beliefs without telling you. Just like how I wouldn't give an orthodox Jew food that didn't have a hechser. Please don't worry about offending me with your answer, I want to know how you actually feel about this.

Secondly, I converted reform. So I'm not Jewish by orthodox standards, correct? Should I tell them that? Obviously if there's not a lot of people there and they try to count me I'll tell them I don't count for their minyan, but other than that, I don't think people really need to know?

And finally, based on all of the above, should I even go? I want your honest opinion. Based on what I've read I think I'd like the structure of this service more. I don't like that they skip some prayers at my usual synagogue, I use an orthodox siddur at home, and I like a longer service, so all of those make me think I'd prefer to daven at an orthodox shul. However, I know that who I am is likely different than most people in that community, and I don't want to go if they don't want me there. So, orthodox (and particularly modox) Jews, what do you think?

Thank you!

This is going up too late for the Orthodox Jews of Europe, Israel, and any further east, but let's see if the Americans will have time to answer. Please keep to the FoR.

[snissel613]

The hardest thing for an orthodox to be is both a) very modern and b) desperately wanting a black fedora for style reasons at the same time

[hindahoney]

Why is it the same people who acknowledge muslim women are free to wear their hijab and that it's not a form of oppression who are so quick to insist orthodox Jewish women are oppressed.

Why does your feminism stop when a woman willfully chooses to cover up and dress modestly because it's more comfortable for her? Can dressing modestly not also make you confident? The only people who say this stuff are people who literally have never met an orthodox jew and just insist they know what they're talking about.

[laineystein]

I don’t really understand how you can be a feminist and follow more Orthodox Judaism practices so I’m wondering if you can speak on that a little bit because it’s always confused me. You’ve complained about the yeshiva dress code but you go to a shul and weddings and parties where men and women are separated. How can both be possible? (I’m a Jew btw so I’m not being rude. I’m just curious.)

I’m a feminist and I follow more Orthodox practices. These are choices I’ve made. That’s it. There’s nothing really to talk about? Some of the gender-separation practices bother me but most don’t. Either way, I can still be a feminist and exist in a world that often separates men and women - especially when it is done in a way that brings value to both. They have different *roles* but their autonomy is respected the same. For those of you who weren’t raised Orthodox, you have such a skewed view of what Orthodox Judaism is. You can be an Orthodox Jewish woman and not cover your hair. You can be an Orthodox Jewish woman and wear pants. All of my female friends that consider themselves Orthodox love being Orthodox. They love their marriages and their children and the homes they’ve built. Many of them work outside of the home. Some don’t. All of them have the choice to do so or not. They all feel they have had complete control over their lives. Many of them also consider themselves feminists. To state that such a thing cannot be true is to show ignorance toward what it means to be an Orthodox woman. Being a feminist is all about choice and about supporting other women. My Orthodox friends know I do not believe in shomer negiah or tzniut and they respect that. I also dress more modestly at shul and around them out of respect. These are choices I make. These are choices my Orthodox friends do not make me feel bad for. These choices don’t make you any less or more of an Orthodox Jew just like they don’t make you any more or any less of a feminist.

…hope that helps! 💁🏻‍♀️

[jewish-education]

Disobedience

Talked to @adamavshamayim recently about the Disobedience conversations going on around here and have decided to make a post. If you don’t want to deal with this drama, that’s why I’m keeping it under the cut. No spoilers, since I think like most people talking I haven’t seen the movie. This post is really a conversation about the conversation.

Ultimately, none of us can really say if the movie is an accurate reflection of the experience unless we are lesbian and from the type of Orthodox community in Disobedience. This movie can’t and shouldn’t be used to generalize the experiences of Orthodox women or Jewish LGBTQ folks. I understand the frustration that it will be, but unless the movie’s situation is close to your own can we please come at it from a “this isn’t my experience in my community” approach. I will make something rebloggable about Jewish diversity to this affect, but all y’all individually posting positive things about being an Orthodox woman or a Jewish LGBTQ person and letting people share those is even better.

Another really, really important point that’s been brought up is who gets a say in the social decisions of Orthodox communities (feminism, LGBTQ-acceptance, etc.). Ultimately, the only people who have power are people in those communities, and in some cases only the people in positions of power in those communities. But who should talk? I don’t agree that all people who “look” like outsiders shouldn’t get to have opinions.

First of all, there are folks who’ve left. And they should be listened to the most. But I agree that there have also been folks who tried.

I made an effort to socially integrate myself into a liberal Modern Orthodox community and realized it was never going to work for me because I wasn’t straight. I wasn’t willing to hide myself to the extent necessary to not be making waves, and I didn’t feel comfortable joining a community only to make waves. It didn’t feel like my place. There were folks who were out and working towards acceptance (and succeeding!), and I felt like I would hurt their credibility. Ultimately I’m happier where I am, but I’d like to make sure folks dismissing Orthodoxy on here bc they wanted to join are as specific as possible about their experiences. The way some posts have been worded means they can be dismissed as being based on generalization or stereotypical knowledge. If you’ve tried to socially integrate yourself into a community and faced barriers, that’s an important thing for Orthodox folks to hear and listen to. Imagine what you’d want to hear from a prospective convert who decided conversion wasn’t going to work for them. You’d probably be more interested in what they had to say if they had specific complaints about your shul/community rather than something vague about “Jewish people” or “Jewish communities” being “bad.” Now word it like that. Even if non-LGBTQ Orthodox folks don’t listen, it might help show LGBTQ Orthodox folks (or other people who were turned away) that they aren’t alone in some unpleasant experiences.

[ask-jumblr]

I am strongly considering conversion, and have spent some time at some shuls and reading up, and I really would like to convert modern orthodox, however. I am a lesbian and I don't feel like I'll be as accepted or as comfortable there. But! I am in NYC so maybe I'm being paranoid and somewhere like this exists. I love the queer synagogue here--several friends attend--but I am pulled to a different kind of observance (as in, would love to keep niddah even, ik that's weird) but at the same (1/3)

time I don’t know if it’s worth it to convert within a community where I’m less likely to find a wife, and where they may be less willing to discuss lgbt issues. And on the other hand, one can be more observant in reform, but at the same time, I would want to find a partner within the community at a similar level of observance as me. Sorry this is a little ramble, but any advice would be appreciated, especially from orthodox queer folks (2/3)

And to clarify, I have spent time in orthodox communities, one of my dear friends growing up was chassidish but she sadly passed away several years ago z”l, so I am actually familiar with the community somewhat and therefore do know what appeals to me about it, and know of course that homophobia is not inherent to the community, but it still isn’t the same as an explicitly queer friendly place (3/3)

Mod here: Anon has requested a preference to hear from Orthodox queer folks, but hasn’t excluded other groups. As a result, I’m not tagging/considering this post FOR. However, if you’re speaking from that perspective and feel comfortable identifying yourself, it would be helpful so anon can take into account your additional credibility.   

[adamavshamayim]

SRUGIM IS ON AMAZON PRIME

Watch it now.