#nart combat

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Naruto - Chapter #385

"An immortal man who is both my comrade and my mentor."

Itachi calls Uchiha Madara (Obito) his comrade and mentor.

The former descriptor may have been simply a lie to get Sasuke to distrust Obito as Itachi was also presenting himself as one whom Sasuke should never trust.

Nevertheless, it is interesting he said it at all, considering the antipathy there.

Naruto - Chapter #385

"For no matter how good you were, you couldn't have taken down the entire police force by yourself!"

These are also panels often used to show that Itachi to an extent saw Madara (Obito) as superior (in strength), admitting that without his help he would have failed to take down the Uchiha clan members, especially the police force.

(Also note that in the Itachi novels it is shown that Obito actually took down the entire police force by himself.)

In other words, Konoha (Danzō et al) knowingly set up Itachi to fail, as he would have died — and most likely become the excuse for Konoha's full forces (perhaps including Kakashi) to descend to directly complete their state-sanctioned Uchiha genocide — if he hadn't swallowed his pride and asked for (and received) Obito's assistance.

And evidently, the Uchiha clan members were far stronger than most fans think; they weren't just swiftly annihilated by a single 13yo, no matter how much of a prodigy.

Rather, it required arguably the two strongest Uchiha alive at the time to take them down; one of whom was also the strongest shinobi alive (even if no one knew it). Fugaku himself could have very well been a force to reckon with, but merely gave up without fighting as he could not stomach killing his own son.

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Naruto - Chapter #681

"Tobirama, who'd been studying the mysteries of the sharingan...

...stopped short of destroying Madara's body."

It is canon that Tobirama kept & hid away Madara's body for further "study" or experimentation, which strongly implies that, instead of properly burying them, Tobirama had been collecting and dissecting—for why else would one preserve a dead body—Uchiha corpses for some time, perhaps beginning in the Warring Clans Era.

(In the Zabuza Arc, Kakashi had also confirmed that the general practice in the shinobi world is to collect an enemy's corpse and "pick them apart" to learn of their secrets and jutsu, hence the need for hunter-nin. We see this in practice in Konoha, when Konoha shinobi pick apart Kakuzu's dead body. Hence, it is no stretch to extrapolate that this is precisely what Tobirama did with Uchiha—and perhaps other—corpses, and had planned to do with Madara's as well.)

How was Tobirama able to get away with this after the formation of the Senju-Uchiha alliance & Konoha? Despite Madara being branded a traitor, would the Uchiha clan not protest to their former clan head's corpse being treated this way, and their kekkei genkai being studied by a former rival clan? Or was this "acquisition" of Madara's body kept secret?

How did Tobirama not immediately realize Madara's corpse was a shadow clone?

If he never checked or dissected Madara's "corpse", then why preserve it in the first place?

Update: Thanks to @odditiesinnaruto for answering! Had not thought of the possibility that, knowing Tobirama would likely safeguard his corpse for "study", Madara could've set Izanagi to activate only after Tobirama's death—though in such a case, another question springs to mind: how would the transcription seal detect this stimulus/trigger for activation? (For Itachi's Amaterasu transcription seal in Sasuke's eye, he set it to activate with the trigger of Sasuke's eyes meeting Obito's sharingan.)

But I'd venture to resolve this (while also partly "covering" another potential plot hole) by extrapolating that the activation requirement must've simply been time: Madara probably used some complex fūinjutsu to preserve at least one of his eyes, and set that eye to use Izanagi, say, 5-10 years after his (first) death; when he could be sure that Tobirama would have... been "done" with his corpse (or even 20-30 years after; when he could be sure that Tobirama would already be dead or retired). The second metaphorical bird this stone of a headcanon hits is Madara's inactivity until his meeting with Obito, i.e. Why did Madara do nothing but chill alone in his cave until he finally awakened the Rinnegan at an old age, only to give Nagato his eyes, and go back to doing nothing until he got Obito?

...unfortunately, this headcanon leads me to yet more questions (lmao):

How could Madara be sure Tobirama wouldn't have taken his eyes or destroyed them (even accidentally), hence rendering him unable to perform Izanagi?

Also, does this mean Sharingan + Hashirama cells >>> Rinnegan, since Izanagi can resurrect someone after more than a year, while Rinnegan seemingly has a time limit (Nagato said he was "still in time" before resurrecting those who'd died to his assault in Konoha) except when someone's soul is already in the world of the living, such as Madara's case in the Fourth War?

Further, the very next page after the panels above states that Madara only transplanted Hashirama's cells in himself after resurrecting (using Izanagi) and spitting out the Hashirama bits that he bit off—so how did he use (& implant) Izanagi without Hashirama's cells? (Obito stated that Izanagi could only be used when one had both Uchiha & Senju powers.)

On that note, how the heck did Tobirama not find a bitten-off chunk of Hashirama in Madara's mouth (and immediately scream sus)? (I'm unfamiliar with autopsy procedures, let alone experimenting on the dead, but I'd assume the body would be thoroughly observed and "tampered" with, since that should be the whole point of preserving the corpse of someone notable for experimentation...?)

(Honestly, this wouldn't be so complicated if Kishi had simply had Hashirama insist on a proper burial for Madara—it'd be more in-character for Hashirama too—after which Madara activates Izanagi within days of his death; and presumably by this point Black Zetsu had revealed itself to Madara, so maybe Madara also had BZ latch onto his body & hide, so that it can possess him and take him away to safety should things veer off-course.)

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Naruto - Chapter #596

Right after Guy's taunting "no opportunity to suck me in, eh?", Obito proved him completely wrong—but curiously, instead of Guy himself, he absorbs only Guy's weapon. (plot armor or old-classmate-sentimentality from the old obito?)

Even more curiously, Obito, a master of genjutsu (feats include subduing & controlling Kurama, the strongest bijū, and Yagura, a perfect jinchūriki), did not take this chance to incapacitate Guy with genjutsu, even though he seems to have had the perfect chance as Guy looks right at his face (bottom right + left panel) instead of down at his feet, despite claiming to always do the latter when fighting a Sharingan user, such as in his mock fights with Kakashi.

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Naruto - Chapter #674-675

"If he'd been born earlier than Obito, I'd have..."

"You did exactly as I'd intended... exceeded my hopes, in fact."

If Madara regrets choosing Obito and wishes he could've chosen Sasuke instead, why would he say Obito exceeded his hopes?

Did he mean that Sasuke was equally as "desirable" as Obito, hence if he'd been born earlier, not around the same time, he would've chosen Sasuke? (If born around the same time, it would've been a toss-up in hindsight?)

Actually, why would he even say Obito "exceeded his hopes"?

Obito needed 17 long years to capture the bijū, which Madara clearly disapproved of.

(Chapter #659 - "Don't compare me with that brat who took years...")

Obito also needed the Akatsuki for this, seeing as he waited 15+ years to even start collecting the bijū, which many readers excuse as time that the Akatsuki needed to gather funds, increase their standing in the shinobi world, etc.

But based on his feats alone, Obito should have been able to easily collect all the bijū on his own & complete the plan long before Naruto even started:

Obito should already know Naruto was the new jinchūriki, and even if he didn't, he could've figured out every jinchūriki's location & identity within a few years at worst.

He had at his disposal White Zetsu, who could be cloned to infinity, and could perfectly impersonate anyone down to their chakra signature that even high-level sensors could not detect them. They should be the perfect spies to infiltrate any village.

Not to mention, the identity of every jinchūriki seems to be an "open secret" as we see in Naruto & Killer Bee. Unlike Bee, most of them also have little to no protection: Deidara said they were able to take 2 jinchūriki without a fuss before Gaara.

(If the Akatsuki were worried about calling attention to themselves by swiftly kidnapping jinchūriki, they could've left behind a White Zetsu as a double, which should hold for days if not weeks; long enough for no alarm to have been raised until all the bijū were already sealed.)

And with his Kamui, MS genjutsu, and Mokuton, Obito should've had no problem kidnapping every jinchūriki:

With Kamui, he could teleport anywhere, bypass any security measure (as he did with Konoha's barriers), bring anyone to his own dimension where they'd be helpless to his genjutsu/chakra-absorbing mokuton—with one touch & within seconds (as he did with Fū & Torune, who were said to be the best of Root ANBU: the elite of the elite).

With his genjutsu, Obito was able to turn Yagura, a perfect jinchūriki, into a puppet, which might scale this feat to equal if not above Kotoamatsukami. Even Ao & Mei thought it was Koto, when in fact it was Obito's Sharingan: Eye of Hypnotism.

With Mokuton, Obito could restrain bijū and absorb their chakra, just like Hashirama and Yamato, who only reached a fraction of Hashirama's power per his own admittance (and thus has a visibly different form of mokuton).

Yet for some reason, Obito failed to use all these abilities to complete his plan.

(Some theorize that Obito subconsciously sabotaged himself, hence all his doubts even during the war & falling to Talk no Jutsu.)

(We all know the real reason is plot.)

But worst of all, Madara had trusted Obito to revive him when the time was right, yet Obito clearly never planned on following through with that. Without Zetsu & Kabuto, Madara would have remained dead and rotting somewhere.

Either way, Obito's "performance" as Madara, which undeniably placed the Eye of the Moon Plan in limbo (no pun intended) for 15+ years, should not have warranted Madara saying that Obito "exceeded his hopes"—unless Madara was merely referring to how OP Kamui turned out to be.

(Even Zetsu knew this and was displeased by how Obito "went against" Madara's plans.)

(Chapter #657 - "He's a good-for-nothing traitor who went against Madara's plan.")

So why did Madara say this, and mere moments after implying he wished he could've chosen Sasuke instead of Obito?

[peekintoeternity]

combatIQmatters:

It was actually explained why Obito declared war. He clearly wanted to lure Bee and Naruto into the open, which he successfully accomplished, as it was better to have both jinchuriki captured. And um no, Zetsu was actually trolling the alliance heavily, they needed Naruto's emotion sensing to counter that, thus Naruto was on the battlefield, thus Naruto was lured out. And, bringing the world together was to show Obito's inner light. Do you think it was a coincidence TTJ Obito lost resolve as Naruto and Sasuke stabbed him? Do you think it was a coincidence Obito felt uncomfortable around Naruto? Obito deep down despite being 99 percent on board with the plan, had his doubts. He wanted to see what the world could achieve when they set aside their hatred for each other, and if they would be enough to take him down. And even then, the war was just a diversion. Sasuke had better conviction than Obito as I already said. Obito would have adjusted accordingly if the variables changed. If Kabuto and Edo Tensei never showed up, it was clear that the Zetsu would be used to infiltrate the alliance bases and cause confusion while fighting a battle of attrition, while Kisame gathers intel, and then Obito with rinnegan could kamui gg both Naruto and Bee once he found their location, and do what he needed to do. Obito himself was giving Guy, Kakashi, Naruto, and Bee a run for their money, so it was doable. Also, Obito would have the same Sasuke on his side fighting against Konoha and Naruto, so yeah, his plan was actually pretty smart.

[peekintoeternity]

Naruto - Chapter #510

"If I hadn't switched from flying...

...to slipping past that explosion..."

(This is the official Viz translation.)

Can Obito fly / levitate? Maybe it's similar to Ōnoki's method of "flying"?

(Since Ōnoki's jutsu, lightening the body, used on its own, would only make one get carried by the wind, there must be some secondary technique that allows for control of the direction & speed of their "floating" aka flying.)

It does seem like Obito's taking an awful long time hitting the bottom (seafloor) during that seeming freefall. Is he just levitating the whole time, like Konan is?

But if yes, why doesn't Obito simply shift upwards to avoid the sea of paper bombs?

If he could've done this, they should've at least shown him trying it, only to have Konan control the paper bombs to block him or something.

The only other instance of Obito levitating that I can remember (in pre-Jūbito form) is in the filler following Obito's reveal, episode 348, when he is shown killing the original Akatsuki members; but it's unclear how he accomplishes this, so it could be considered studio error?

That said, if he cannot levitate, how does he "rise from the ground" during his fight with Naruto, Bee, Kakashi, Guy? He was clearly not using Earth Style or something like the Hiding in Surface Technique, since Obito's near-identical feat is accomplished with Kamui, and he is not credited as a user of this jutsu (likely because he can do the same, maybe even with more versatility, using Kamui).

So the most likely explanation seems to be that it is related to how he never phases through the ground when he goes intangible; but this still leaves us with the question of why Obito doesn't just "fly" or levitate upwards to avoid falling through Konan's sea of paper bombs.

(Maybe he simply couldn't be bothered because he could just use Izanagi and spawn behind her, which had the added bonus of taking her by surprise and ending the "fight" as quickly as possible?)

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Naruto - Chapter #656

Madara's (the Rinnegan's) ninjutsu / chakra absorption is countered (and nullified) by Hashirama's Mokuton (Wood Dragon).

(Madara was then unable to absorb Naruto's rasen shuriken.)

Theoretically, it should be similarly possible to use Mokuton to counter chakra absorbing abilities such as those of the Ōtsutsuki's Karma, since Madara did not—and thus was likely unable to—absorb the Mokuton with the Rinnegan's Preta Path; instead, the chakra he expended (and required) to absorb the Mokuton got absorbed by the Mokuton, as stated by Hashirama & canon manga (precedent).

The statement in a Boruto novel (novelization of the movie)—that Momoshiki absorbed wood style—should then be considered an error, or a contradiction wherein the pre-established canon & manga canon should triumph, or at best, an exception / special case—as the Mokuton that Momoshiki's Rinnegan absorbed in the novel was likely not in the form of a powerful jutsu like the Wood Dragon (in fact we don't even know what Mokuton jutsu it was, since the novel only mentions it in one line), but rather a "sealed" jutsu fired at Momoshiki by Katasuke using a Scientific Ninja Tool (and due to logistics, with Hashirama and Madara and Obito being dead and all, it is most likely Yamato's "weaker" wood style).

...or, since later manga canon states that Karma (and thus the Ōtsutsuki's chakra absorption) cannot absorb natural matter, and Mokuton creates natural plant life (flora), the novel's one-line mention of Mokuton being absorbed can be considered to have been retconned (by material with greater canon status / superior canonicity). After all, if natural matter can be absorbed as well (not just chakra), why couldn't Momoshiki or even Pain simply absorb whole bodies like Naruto himself or whoever they're fighting, the way Obito can "absorb" or "seal away" whatever and whoever he touches into Kamui?