#otp analysis

[phoenixlionme]

I know this might sound weird but I REALLY like the Chaggie conflict from S1 is how much of Charlie's demeanor changed. The normally peppy and accommodating princess became easily angered and annoyed; calling Alastor an "asshole" to his face, rolling her eyes in front of Rosie, and her infamous "fuck you, you old bitch" to Susan while flipping her off. I mean, Charlie had more urgent matters and reveals already plaguing her mind but Vaggie's secrecy is what shook her. The idea that the person who has been her most steadfast supporter was lying to her; the idea that the person she trusts and loves the most didn't trust her with a huge secret when Charlie has shown numerous times that she truly values trust and redemption. And the fact that Charlie's anger directed at Vaggie isn't expressive or emotional but cold and icy. Even though it's a tense and stressful moment for the couple, it also shows how much Charlie values Vaggie that the possibility of Vaggie not fully loving her caused the princess such emotional turmoil.

[red-balloon12]

Why the “They’re Out Of Their Honeymoon Phase” argument doesn’t work (all that much)

So one of the popular arguments against the “Chaggie doesn’t have chemistry” critiques is that “They’re pass their honey moon phase.” And for a bit I believed in that sentiment. But the more I thought about it, the more I felt like that argument is kinda…dated? Because Moxxie and Mille are actually married and they had an actual “honeymoon” phase and yet they’re still very affectionate one year later.

My problem with this is that there shouldn’t be a set amount how affectionate a couple should be after a set period of time. Both M&M and Chaggie are Vaild couples. Chaggie strikes me as a couple that A. Are too busy to really be affectionate in public or B. Are a couple that don’t like to really PDA. Both are valid reasons as to why they aren’t as “passionate” with one another as M&M (or OzzFizz for that matter)

And I know what some of you Chaggie critics are going to say. “But how are we going to be convinced they are a couple if they don’t do couple-ly things. That isn’t entertaining.”

Well, they could keep doing what they’re doing now “building off of each other during work” while flirting a little. That way they still keep a low PDA while still doing “couplely” things (although they do hold hands a lot in public and Vaggie isn’t afraid to call Charlie petnames in public sooo…take that with what you will).

But honestly, in an ideal world, Chaggie shouldn’t have to prove themselves as a couple. People should just take them saying “yeah, we’re a couple” and just leave it. Because the reality is, low PDA couples exist in real life and I’ve seen a lot of couples feel seen by Chaggie because they are also low PDA. I think it’s important to showcase different types of couples. Couples that aren’t raunchy like M&M, couples that don’t show a lot of PDA like Chaggie, couples that are pretty raunchy in public like OzzFizz.

(And sometimes, couples may seems like they’re dating their “best friend” because sometimes…that’s what it is, a lot of couples had to be friends at some point, that’s how they work well with each other. This doesn’t add much to my over all argument. I just wanted to take a jab at the “they seem more like friends” argument)

So what does all of this mean? I think we should replace the “they’re out of their honeymoon phase” and replace it with “they’re just a couple that doesn’t like showing a lot of PDA and that’s okay.”

[thegaysharks-blog]

I have no sympathy for Emison shippers, sorry.

If anyone has a right to be upset, it's Paily shippers, since a medical rape storyline is going to ruin our ship because of fan service. That's the REAL queerbait right there. Paily was an original ship, like Ezria/Haleb/Spoby. Emison never had an actual relationship like Paily had. Entitled Emisons complaining about "Paige getting in the way of Emison" in 2017 can honestly go fuck themselves.

[phoenixlionme]

Do you guys ever truly think about Vaggie's vital importance to Charlie?

I sometimes think the fandom tend to overlook how much Vaggie means to Charlie. Think about it for a moment:

Before meeting with Vaggie, Charlie was alone. Her father was emotionally unavailable and unreceptive to her dream. Her mother had been gone for three years by that point, and Charlie had no way to contact her. She has no particular close relationships given how most of the Hell citizens see her as an airheaded joke. If still canon, she and her ex (Seviathan) are on bad terms and not friends. Charlie is virtually alone.

Then, she meets and rescues Vaggie. A supposed Sinner who is injured badly. And someone who doesn't see Charlie's kindness as a weakness but smiles out of gratitude. And that one smile had Charlie fall fast. They become friends and Charlie FINALLY has someone to talk to, vent, cry, and all that kind of stuff with Vaggie not being shady or uncaring at all. And unlike the Hazbin residents, Vaggie was never dismissive or gruff to Charlie.

Vaggie supported her ideas and plans, when everyone else (including her own father) didn't believe her. Vaggie became Charlie's best friend, confidant, true love, girlfriend (future wife), second-in-command, and partners. Vaggie became Charlie's everything.

And when Charlie learned of Vaggie's lie, the former was shaken with hurt and anger. Her defiance against Heaven became moot when Adam and Lute revealed her secret. She became noticeably angrier around people she would normally not be. Her anger, which would be expressive and near violent, became icy cold and distant when confronting Vaggie. And what truly shook Charlie's confidence was the idea that Vaggie never believed in her.

And let's we forget this moment at the end of the battle of the Hotel:

It got cropped out but we know the couple is glaring at Lute. And Charlie, who just moments had a look of some pity to a ranting Adam and even spared his life, shows none of that to Lute. Granted, Charlie didn't threaten to end her life but you can't tell me that Charlie wasn't thinking it. She's talking to a now one-armed, defenseless, crying Lute but Charlie goes demon mode with no look of sympathy. It's crystal clear: Charlie hates Lute for nearly killing Vaggie.

It's true that Charlie was the light that Vaggie needed to guide her back from the dark. But Vaggie is Charlie's guardian angel.

[phoenixlionme]

The Chaggie Moments from the S2 Trailer and What They Might Be About

These three Chaggie pics are the ones making fans (especially Chaggie fans) theorize what is happening. As such, I will give my opinion.

First Pic - Charlie is crying happy tears while Vaggie is beside her. Now, I strongly agree with the sentiment that this is because she has learned of Sir Pentious' ascension and is beyond overjoyed that not only has her friend survived but that her dream wasn't a foolhardy one.

Second Pic - Honestly, the most mysterious pic of them. Vaggie looks tired but gently holds Charlie's face. And she utters this line (which was the closing speaking line of the official S2 trailer), "We've faced impossible odds before. Together, we can do it again". One YouTuber even stated that Vaggie is on the ground and not in their bed. And I agree that whatever is happening here is probably a big spoiler. Why? When Vaggie mentions "we can do it again". I think by the 2nd pic, they are already aware of Sir Pentious' ascension but something else has happened after. Something bad that has caused problems for their goals. And Vaggie's whole expression implies she might be injured or hurt and she's smiling and gently holding Charlie's cheek to comfort the princess and whatever chaos has happened by that point.

Third Pic - I'm going to straight up say it: This is going to be the much anticipated sex scene Vivziepop has talked about. Although, I can see there being more than one and her keeping it secret to surprise fans. Why do I (and many others) think that? The soft lighting, the intimate close up of the two holding hands, Charlie's jacket is already off, and they are in their bed.

Now, I have seen some people claim the second and third pics are from the same scene. But I disagree. All three pics are from DIFFERENT Chaggie moments/scenes. Why do I think this? It's a simple reason but something I noticed - In each pic, we don't see one or (in the case of the third pic) both of their faces. Why does this matter? I am not a media expert but I think it might be a misdirection, to avoid spoilers. The crew specifically chose their pics to avoid spoilers but also make us think that some are happening together at the same time.

Another reason why I think the 2nd and 3rd pics are from different moments is because of the lighting. The second has the typical red background while the 3rd pic is much MORE softer. So, I think the trailer is throwing us off -> the second pic happens AFTER the third pic.

Here's how I think the moments will go

First Pic - Definitely first. Everyone learns about Sir Pentious and Charlie is overjoyed, relieved, and validated. And she's sharing a private moment with her girlfriend.

Third Pic - Don't know when but they have their intimate sex moment

Second Pic - The most mysterious pic means it's probably the biggest spoiler between all of the pics. Vaggie appears to be very tired or in pain; is talking about doing the impossible "again", which infers something BIG happened at that point; her gently holding Charlie's cheek in reassurance. And unlike the other two pics, where we can vaguely see that they are in their bedroom, the second pic obscures the background even more. It could be outside or inside. Either way, this pic of them couples with Vaggie's words, means SOMETHING BIG has transpired and Vaggie is trying to calm Charlie.

[phoenixlionme]

A small but still poignant Chaggie moment

Something I noticed in the "Dad Beat Dad" episode, as seen in the above gif -

When Charlie is asked by her father about her other friends, Charlie's first one to introduce is Vaggie, her girlfriend. She specifically refers to Vaggie as such but doesn't add that the latter is also the manager and I don't think it was done out of spite but just how much that between being her girlfriend and Hotel manager, Charlie is more grateful towards the former to an extent.

Charlie literally pulls Vaggie to meet her father. It's cute and so in-character for someone as expressive as Charlie.

How Charlie wraps one hand around Vaggie's arm and then gently holds the latter's opposite hand. It's quick and small but speaks volume to Charlie's comfort with Vaggie.

Just... how soft Charlie's voice gets when she refers to Vaggie as her girlfriend couples with the equally soft looks exchanged between them both.

[phoenixlionme]

New Chaggie Conflict in S2

I strongly believe that Chaggie will have a new conflict in S2 and this above moment from S1's "Welcome to Heaven" and "Hello Rosie" (I believe) hints at it.

Now, let's first talk about the above scene: It's from the song, "You Didn't Know" and Charlie has grown increasingly angry at Heaven's hypocrisy and unwillingness to consider redemption for Sinners. Vaggie tries to calm Charlie's temper and gently puts her hand on the latter's shoulder. However, an emotionally angry (and prideful) Charlie angrily pulls away from Vaggie's touch. Which leads to the second image - She would come to do this again when Vaggie tries to talk to Charlie about the latter's deal with Alastor; however, this time it's colder and deliberate as Charlie has learned and upset about Vaggie's secret/lie.

Now, why focus on those moments? Because the normally cheerful Charlie who gladly welcomes her girlfriend's warmth and gentle touch, rebukes said touch in those mentioned moments. And while the circumstances were different, they share a similar theme - The perceived idea from Charlie that Vaggie isn't fully supporting her. Now, when I state this, I am NOT trying to demonize Charlie, but it makes sense. Vaggie is the FIRST person to ever fully support and believe in Charlie, so if there's a moment that appears that Vaggie might not believe in her, Charlie will either get scared or angry.

Before i get to my theory, I will point out some recent info from Stephanie Beatriz, Vaggie's VA - Beatriz states that while Vaggie's devotion to help Charlie is genuine and beautiful, the VA wonder if it's truly healthy that someone put all their self-worth from one person and then asks who Vaggie is as a person without Charlie or the Hotel.

Now, I think at this point, you all are starting to get the gist of my theory: Vaggie will start to want to do things outside the Hotel and find out who she is outside of the Hotel and Charlie. Now, look Charlie is a genuinely loving and supportive person, but she's not perfect - She's naive, impulsive, insensitive, selfish, prideful; and, while she does respect and love Vaggie, she has a habit of steamrolling her girlfriend. And given her privileged status and lonely life prior to Vaggie, Charlie not initially approves or support Vaggie's wants. And the hesitation isn't from Charlie being controlling or abusive but of (understandable but still not cool) selfish desire to keep the one person who's always supported her, by her side and only focused on the Hotel. She won't be cruel but just gently suggests that she and Vaggie have the Hotel and redemption to focus on, which requires a lot of work.

And if Vaggie goes through with it, Vaggie will notice Charlie's lack of support, which she'll initially keep to herself. And while Charlie doesn't fully support, she does try to make sure she appreciates Vaggie's support and help of the Hotel but will grow angrier at Vaggie spending time at her new thing instead of the Hotel (her).

Then, the reveal that redemption works is revealed. Everything changes and both are stupefied and happy, but trouble comes: Maybe Vaggie sees Lute or hears about Lute doing something suspicious and tries to warn Charlie against any further redemption plans until Lute is dealt with. But Charlie doesn't listen. An argument ensues with both of them lobbying their hidden anger at one another. Maybe Vaggie tries to reach out to Charlie but a misguided and angry Charlie rebukes it, finally venting her true feelings of Vaggie not being at the Hotel as much. And Vaggie (who underwent character growth), gets angry back at Charlie, calling out the princess for her steamrolling and not supporting her. Then, it leads to Charlie saying something that shakes Vaggie to her core; Charlie immediately regrets what she said and tries to offer her the touch for comfort only for Vaggie to pull away.

[phoenixlionme]

Vaggie is Charlie's Anchor, Light, and Guiding Force

As the title of this post states, Vaggie is Charlie's stability. Her grounding force. Her source to go to for protection, mainly emotional but no doubt she also appreciates the physical protection. I made an earlier post that theorizes that the trust fall exercises foreshadows the faller would be saved by the person catching them; and Vaggie catching Charlie, I believe, foretells the former saving Charlie in some way in S2. In the "More Than Anything" song, Vaggie is given a special shot when Charlie glances at the other residents; Vaggie is the only one surrounded by the light, which not only foreshadowed her true origins for the next episode but also shows us visually how Charlie sees Vaggie - her light. And in the reprise, Vaggie literally but gentle guides Charlie from the dark into the light; I guarantee that's a big foreshadow for S2, I just know it. I just cannot stress enough (happily btw because I love this OTP) how much Vaggie means to Charlie. Without her guardian angel, Charlie probably would've never started the Hotel, never reconciled with her father, never found a family with the Hazbin staff, and would've been alone still. Vaggie is EVERYTHING to Charlie.