I got an ask about semantics, that Dean is often branded “toxic” and that it tends to be overused. Semantics isn’t my strong point, so i thought I’d come to a Dean historian. :)
Do you think this is overused for Dean?
I find it’s a much more interesting conversation when we describe his behavior for what it actually is—whether he’s being stubborn, dismissive, hostile, or even emotionally guarded. I think some of the specific ways he copes—through joking, deflection, self-sacrifice, breaking objects, or pushing people away—are very human.
I think it was @ilarual that pointed out that Supernatural isn’t a Saturday family drama… it can’t be divorced from its religious horror fantasy roots. The characters’ struggles—whether emotional breakdowns, crises of faith, or cycles of self-destruction—aren’t just personal; they’re heavy with cosmic forces, biblical themes, and the weight of fate itself.
Anyway, it’s hard for me not to see “toxic” as a copout word. (Forgive me for dumping on you.)
Hi Shal! I'm so honored to get two asks from you!! I was carrying them around in my head all week though I didn't have time to answer :(
I'm trying to gather my thoughts about this. Because, yes, I agree that calling Dean "toxic" is a) not accurate and b) a cop-out for analysis. And I certainly agree that that word is overused by deancrits particularly.
I think I'm probably not grasping the full weight and meaning of ilarual's point but from what I'm getting, I think that's a really important element to how dean (and sam and cas and jack etc) act and how we evaluate their actions. The stakes are always so damn high for all of them.
Stepping back for a moment, when reading fic I'm often a little frustrated if Dean is characterized the way he is in canon but most of the contexts that have made him behave, react, be that way are removed. Because in some of those instances, I think some of his behavior reads as pretty ungrounded from reality and maybe more into the kinds of patterns which coalesce into toxicity. (I mean I also think fanon makes people lean into these kinds of characterizations of dean - disaster bisexual, repressed and biphobic, and various other things which are incomprehensible to me)
But in canon, I tend to personally struggle to define any of TFW et al as "toxic." I recall a conversation I had with a friend after watching Lucifer Rising where she was critical of Dean for yelling at Cas when he was trying to break Cas free of Heaven's plans to bring on the Apocalypse. She said he was being mean. I remember feeling so confused - surely if the stakes are the whole entire world, you are well within your rights to raise your voice?
I think all of TFW has moments of being not particularly kind or good communicators or steamrolling each other's emotions or various other things which are kinda yucky interpersonally. But it's pretty much always because the stakes are so fucking high; the world is in peril; there isn't time to have a conversation; they are dealing with catastrophic grief while also having to do crisis management. Most of the conflict in spn happens when the characters are going through what, for most people, would hopefully be the worst day of their lives. And for our boys that happens again... and again...
I am not saying all of this to say we can't call out specific instances of them not being very kind to each other - Sam strangling Dean, Dean aiming a gun at Sam, Cas beating Dean up in an alley, Dean beating Cas up in s10 etc etc. And I also think it's important to talk about the ways these kind of moments constitute or break from their common behavioral patterns - or don't. Eg in your post about Amara and 15.15, you pointed out that betraying and forcibly sacrificing someone who isn't really a direct threat and is learning and growing is not in line with Dean's usual morals - a break from a pattern. And people often point out Cas' pattern for trying to problem solve solo. (These are just examples and by no means comprehensive!)
All this is to say that I actually think that if they all ever got to be in safe, calm world, got some space and time, they all really really do have values around talking things out (we see this again and again) and listening to the differences in how they feel or want to handle situations. Sam and Dean alone have a staggering amount of conversations at the end of episodes where they had conflict. Dean and Cas have multiple on-screen conversations about what caused tension between them and many off-screen conversations which are alluded to. I don't think any of them are perfect communicators. I think they all have various amounts of introspective capacity and effort at various times. They all have some well-worn and not all that healthy emotional go-tos because of the traumatic lives they have all lead - which would take time and safety to unlearn, unpack, and change.
I know your question was about Dean but there's not much I really have to say about Dean which doesn't apply to the others. I am specifically a die-hard Deangirl(gn) but this logic is what would keep me from making a long post about how Sam or Cas are Toxic(tm) even when I'm seeing them exhibit a specific behavior pattern which is annoying to me.
But the last thing I'll say is much more Dean specific and that is that Dean is sort of always just supposed to absorb and roll with everyone else's opinions and analysis and choices and not react with his true or full emotions or else he gets these labels thrown at him. This reminds me of a time I saw a Casgirl(gn) claim it was okay for Cas to beat Dean up in 5.18 because he was really mad at Dean... ? Or what we were talking about a week ago with the Mia Vallens therapy where Sam's frustration and hurt and anger are listened to and validated - including him lashing out at Dean - and the grief and frustration and cornering that Dean is feeling are somehow not supposed to affect the way he's acting? I'm certainly not the first to point this pattern out by any means but I do think that that's a big contributing factor in labeling Dean toxic while having explanations, exceptions, and excuses for the others.
Lastly, you are never dumping on me though I fear this reply is at risk of being a dump <3 I also don't even know if I really answered your question...
Oh wait, one more thing. I think the way fandom can be so focused on looking for the Victim(tm) and the Abuser(tm) means that, especially in many moments in spn, they are utterly missing that one of the inherent consequences of whichever godawful shit the characters are facing is that their beliefs about how to handle it will be in tension. And that's gonna suck for everyone. But it's actually no one's fault that they're arguing or disagreeing about how to handle it.
