#problematic fanfiction

[vagrantcallisto]

"This fanfic is disgusting!"

Bitch, nobody Clockwork Orange'd you into reading it.

[welcometothelairofthebitchking]

"Problematic ships normalizes xxx"

Do you think everything that exists in this world should be like a guide about how to act in the real world? Because let me tell you, you can NEVER purge everything you deem problematic in this world. It's just not possible even if you burn down every single 'problematic' thing on the Internet. But you know what you CAN do to stop 'problematic' things being 'normalized'? Practicing and teaching critical thinking skills!

Being critical of something doesn't mean destroying it if it's unethical. It doesn't mean avoiding it (unless you want to). It doesn't even mean you aren't allowed to enjoy it. It means recognizing that specific themes in that work are wrong and should never be replicated in the real world. Because they would harm someone.

The only reason such things are problematic is because they harm people. But art about fictional people doesn't harm anyone. I get that you're worried that people would try to copy things they read in ficiton in real life. But Everyone are going to come face to face with something wrong and fucked up in one point in their life even if it's not on ao3, and this is particularly why we shouldn't create an environment so sterile that people think everything they see can be treated as a guide as what is okay.

Because if you purge everything wrong and insist art only showcases things that are okay, then people would believe whatever they see in art is always an acceptable way to act, and when they eventually come across something fucked up? That's when normalization happens. Because they haven't been taught to fucking think.

as for why someone would even write or read such ships you deem disgusting? I don't know. a thousand reasons. One of the most prevalent reasons for reading such stories I've seen is coping with trauma. Yes. the people you are attacking are usually dealing with trauma themselves. Not necessary of that specific thing, or even something big, but fiction is about taking everything and turning it to 1000000. Something very simple in real life can be amped up in fiction so it becomes a horrible act.

Another reason is that fictional characters are ageless. They aren't 16. They aren't influenced more or less depending on their age, but their character design. THEY AREN'T REAL. They're just words on a page. You can write the same story and go like 'oh no this guy isn't 17 actually. he's 18' and that won't change a goddamn thing. they won't be harmed by such ships. Their ages won't affect them. It won't make a difference if you wait for a character to grow up or not.

Most importantly, Fanfiction is a way for people to live vicariously. To some extent, we are all projecting into our favorite characters. Which is why it doesn't matter if the character is 16 or 22. Because deep down, it's just a mirror of you. Again, to clarify, I'm NOT saying the readers of such works want anything like that to happen to them in real life. Like I said, fiction amplifies things. So even if it's a 'dark' fic or whatever, it can be a way of dealing with a much more minor issue in real life that hurt you in a way that feels similar in a much much much smaller scale.

[bauliya]

actually yeah i agree that fanfiction can be racist, i've encountered many fanfics depicting south asian characters as shitty caricatures, but you really have to step back and ask yourself if sending a suicide-bait anon to a white teenager who wrote something 500 ppl total will read is really doing anything in terms of awareness, organisation, or positive change, which is what activism actually is about

[fedonciadale]

I don't support neither petyr and sansa nor sansa, however I am sad to say that I read some fic of those couples and the way they have written them, it has seemed hot, and in a way I enjoyed them because I always imagine sansa a little more older, I stop reading those fics, but I feel like the worst person in the world, because I do not really support the couple, I think it was because I was like 18 and going through a stage of sexual discovery, and the way they write the sex seemed great to

(2) to me, but I feel I’m damaged. I don’t know why I’m writing this, I think I needed to tell someone. the worst thing is that I know how bad this couple is, I know that both of them are pedophiles and abusers, and I don’t want people to think that I support that. in the fics was consensual, and I imagined them with a different scenario to the canon, with a older sansa. I think what I had was more of a daddy kink, because I also read some fics with oberyn and sansa and jaime and sansa :(.          

Dear nonny,  

thank you for trusting me with this. Please, please, never feel ashamed for reading fics you liked! Nor for giving the authors some love for their hard work. There is something very important about fanfiction, it is called transformative work! That means that the characters are not necessarily the same way as they are in canon. In your own fandom world, you can imagine a 20 year old Sansa and a 40 year old man and like them as a couple, why not? It’s your fantasy? It might have been a phase as you say, but even if you still somehow like it, that doesn’t make you a bad person. If reading would make us bad persons I don’t know what is up with all those ‘creepy people’ who read crime fiction. Are they into murder? Certainly not.

Most of us cannot really say, what makes us ship a pairing. I mean I’ve shipped pairings all my life, and the ones I’ve shipped have been very different over the ages, because sometimes at a certain time a ship appeals to you that would never appeal to you later in life. And sometimes an author is just that good, that you like a fic even if you don’t especially like the couple. There is no shame in reading a good fic. Shipping a couple does not mean that you would support that in real life. I certainly won’t start campaigning for all cousins to marry - although I certainly have nothing against cousin marriage and you might persuade me to petition for allowing cousin marriage in the very few states where it is forbidden.

So, I got this of my chest. Reading fics with a couple doesn’t make you a shipper, being a shipper doesn’t make you into a person who would support this in real life. I know of some people who ship as a kind of coping mechanism. Since I fortunately was never abused I don’t really get why it would make you ship an abusive pairing, but who am I to tell somebody what to do to get over a bad experience?

So, I’m all for ship and let ship… I might not be into every pairing - and I have enough Jonsa fics on my ‘marked for later’ list as it is - but reading a good fic is always fun. Of course you have to be convinced of a pairing. I tried reading Jon€rys fic, but I gave up. The pairing just doesn’t work for me. Some ships I can’t understand (theon and Rams@y for example makes me shudder), but as I said, I certainly won’t go out of my lane to stop or scold these shippers. I just blacklist the pairings I don’t like.

So, even with problematic ships like Petyr/Sansa I can imagine that a good fic might lure me in, at least if the canon is bent in some way - Sansa being older or other things. You can always ship something and do it in a canonbent way, that makes it far less problematic.

I’ve shipped Dramione for some time - and I stil have a whole fic about them ready in my mind - but I never shipped them as a canon-ship, because I knew there were far too much problematic things about it. In my fanon headcanon I always slightly bent the canon so that it would be a better couple. There is nothing wrong about experimenting with a pairing and it doesn’t make you a bad shipper or something. It means you transform the settings of the author and mold them into your own fanon version. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, as long as you know what you are doing!

I would say, that it is somewhat problematic to ship Petyr/Sansa or Sansa and any of the much older men as in canon-shipping them. In the books Sansa is 11 when the series start. She is a child, no matter how she looks. That makes the interaction of any of the man with her somewhat creepy and inappropriate. I would also say, that you shouldn’t defend that ship with arguments real pedophiles use. You shouldn’t try to deny the problematic aspects of the ship.

So, I think there is a huge difference between canon-shipping and just shipping. I mean I could invent a canon AU, where Lyanna Mormont is older and marries Jon? That would not be wrong. I just think that canon-shipping is different. It is about where the story goes and what the characters are and about my imagination of the characters. That is always very subjective. So, my decision to ship something is also in a way subjective, even though I might have convincing evidence.

On the other hand, there are things in canon of GoT and ASOIAF that let me say that I don’t think Sansa could ever be in a healthy relationship with this particular man. Petyr is responsible for her family’s demise and his actions towards Sansa make my skin crawl. I cannot in good conscience tell myself that this would be a healthy pairing. I want to ship healthy pairings I want healthy pairings in canon. What bugs me, if people go out of their way to pretend a pairing is healthy which clearly isn’t. If someone ships them canonbent or admits that they ship them despite the problematic aspects, that’s o.k. for me.

Imho Jonsa is one of the healthiest ships available in ASOIAF and GOT. Two people of the same age, who like and respect each other and there is absolutely no way one of the halfs of the ship would do non-consensual. I’d rather have a pseudo-incest ship (and it is pseudo-incest) than any of the other options.

As for you feeling ‘damaged’ or strange after reading fics, I can assure you we all experience that at some time in our life. I remember even today a very disturbing Dramione fic I read, years and years ago. It was about torture and somehow I couldn’t stop to read and afterwards I was close to tears and asked myself: “Why the fuck did I read that? Or why the fuck did I continue to read it?” And I felt ashamed that I had read the damn thing to the very end instead of just stopping. I still feel ashamed in a way, even after years..... Still, that doesn’t mean that I support torture in real life or in fic or whereever. I made a mistake in reading that fic and I still don’t know why I did that.

So, if you like reading some well-written fics, just read them. Imagine Sansa older, in an AU or whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you don’t like a fic or a pairing is not for you, just stop reading.

Thanks for the ask and the trust!

[youll-ruin-the-flowers]

@ fanfic writers

Trans people don’t exist for your trans-AU fanfics. ESPECIALLY when it’s real-person fanfiction (i. e. Dan & Phil, One Direction, 5 Seconds of Summer). Trans AUs and headcanons are great when it’s a fictional character, but when it’s a real person, it’s a slap in the face. So please consider stopping; it doesn’t spread awareness or positivity, and are often written by cis people who don’t understand the trans experience at all.

Sincerely,

A transgender individual

[adsumcirrat]

About that “problematic fanfic” discourse that is going on:

Debating whether or not is okay to read and enjoy fanfics that are fetishizing gays and/or promoting racial or gender stereotypes which are harmful, is hypocritical to the max when there are fics specifically written for gore, vore, rape, bestiality, shota, pedophilia, and so on.

Like, if you admire a rape fanfic for being well-written and then turn around and blast another fic for gender-bending and misogyny, the only problem is your hypocrisy.

It’s live-and-let-live for all or nothing, not only those parts of fandoms that you personally like.

Also, let’s reiterate, that calm and factual discussion is much much different than blasting hell and flamewars into the author’s face.