#repcomm critical

[mysticaltora8276]

Except nowhere, not even legends indicated that was the case. And in Star Wars, the clone wars, the highest form of canon at the time and now the only remaining part of that tiered system made it abundantly clear that the Jedi did not treat them like that. I don’t know. I wouldn’t trust the workings of an author who said that she cheered when order 66 a genocide happened….. considering that even in the Star Wars republic comic one of the darker entries at the time, they were perfectly fine with clones getting names. And tried to save the clones when a contingency plan meant that they would blow up newly batched clones just because of the possibility of them being captured. Three Jedi, who supposedly “don’t care about the clones.” Had to convince Alpha 17 who was a clone to not do that. So yeah, and legends and Cannon that was never the case, except for Karen Travis is stupid world where she deliberately misunderstood Jedi theology and methodology just to fit her stupid viewpoint. And from what I’m hearing now of commando units, in particular special force units and how they treat women all I have to say is this let me get a straight Traviss you take a highly misogynistic place of work and perpetuate the misogynistic stereotypes because reasons? It’s a crappy thing for a woman to do to your fellow ladies.

[ranahan]

Trying the Republic Commando novels again,

spoilers under the cut!

At first I was really skeeved by both the pregnancy storyline and Kal’s character (he’s great as a fictional character, but man, what a piece of work). But now I’m starting to question why these elements were chosen for the story. What questions is the reader invited to ask? Is it just the author’s own biases showing, or are these elements there for a purpose?

I find the choice of Etain’s pregnancy storyline and her reasoning of “giving Darman a future” interesting. The “my line and legacy will continue after me” is a natborn concept. Would clones even attach similar sentiments to reproduction? I think not. If you shared your genetic code with millions of others, would you feel it was tied to your individuality, or would it feel more like common property? Would it be a part of what makes you, you—or would you find the part that’s not genetic more important? Would giving it to a child be an act of tying you together, or would the act of raising them (like you were trained by your training sergeant or brothers) be more salient?

Is this a purposeful “cultural” misunderstanding from the author’s part? I’d find that an interesting angle to explore, but since the pregnancy is hidden, we don’t get Darman’s thoughts on the matter (at least as far as I’ve gotten so far). Or is it simply a misunderstanding the purpose of which is to illustrate the clones’ position and other people making all the decisions concerning them, even outside the military life (Etain’s to get pregnant on purpose; Kal’s to not tell Darman)? Is the whole point of the plot line that there are no civilian lives and freedoms for the clones? Or is it just the author’s own biases showing through?

Similarly, I’m starting to wonder whether the whole point of Kal’s character isn’t that even the clones’ own father figure controls all their choices? It’s repeatedly emphasised how Kal doesn’t like and refuses to share information, makes one-sided decisions all the time, and bullies around everyone from jedi generals to his own sons until he gets what he thinks is best. He’s a control freak who can’t deal with letting other people make their own choices.

I was first disappointed that even the story that was supposed to be told “from the point of view of the disposable grunts,” actually centred on a pregnant Jedi and a rogue natborn sergeant. But now I’m wondering if the point of these characters isn’t to tell something about the clones? Military fiction after all sometimes does include relationship subplots, to explore how serving in the military affects the soldiers’ relationships and lives beyond the military. So are Etain and Kal serving the same function here, only because the soldiers in question are clones without rights, it works out a bit differently?

I don’t know. I hope I’m getting on the right track here, and not giving too generous an interpretation to the books, because I really wanted to like them (military fiction! in SW!) but then to my surprise didn’t. So I’m trying again with a bit more deliberate engagement with the elements that bothered me the first time. 🤔

[aces-to-apples]

Wanted to say thank you for your writing. I love all of it, even (especially) the Winx AU. You've also gotten me sucked into Halo. I'm marathon watching the games (I don't have an XBOX) and have started to read the novels as well. I have no idea what I'm doing with my life anymore but I'm having fun so...*shrugs*. Were there any novels you would stay away from? I saw that you liked the Kilo-Five ones. Anyways I love your blog and you are amazing! Sincerely, New Halo Fan

Ayyyyy, I’m glad you liked it (especially since it’s such a wacky combination) and I’m delighted to hear I got you into Halo! I know I sometimes talk about being RvB trash first and foremost, but honestly I’m Halo trash first, RvB trash second, and a human being third, that’s just how much I’ve always loved Halo. Imo it’s a shame that you can’t experience them first-hand, but if you’re still having fun then I’m so glad!

As for the novels, I haven’t really found any that I’d recommend “staying away from”, just a few of the earlier ones that didn’t do it for me and that’s very much subjective. (I’m gonna be honest, I accidentally bought one or two that are first-person POV and I haven’t even cracked them because I Cannot Do That.) My general advice with the novels, if you’re a slut for lore like I am, is to tackle them as chronologically as you can so you don’t miss anything. Timelines for the novels and games are abound, so the hardest part is just. Having access to all of them.

Wrt to the Kilo-Five trilogy....I really enjoyed it a lot, and I don’t necessarily have any problem saying that, it’s just that I read them when I was quite a bit younger and, well, less familiar with subtext and nuance. Tbh, that’s why I haven’t gone back to read them nowadays, because I’m afraid that I’ll suddenly see all of its flaws that I didn’t as a teenager and lose my love for them. And Karen Traviss’ track record with the RepComm series in the Star Wars Extended Universe—which is pretty much a hot mess of racism, abuse apologism, and misogyny—has me worried that they’re there and I just didn’t pick up on them. So I suppose my revised opinion on K5 is “Creator Chooses Not To Use Archive Warnings” and a big ol’ “Enter At Your Own Risk” sticker slapped onto the covers. I remember loving a lot of the lore, and definitely the characters, and definitely the dragging of Catherine Halsey, I’m just wary of recommending them as wholeheartedly as I would have a couple years ago. Maybe Bungie/Microsoft was able to keep a tighter leash on her biases, so as with pretty much all things ever, YMMV.

I hope you continue having a good time with Halo and thank you so much for your lovely words! (Is it too early to recommend Red vs. Blue? Probably, right? I mean, it’s a 17 season + miniseries-es undertaking all by itself and lbr quite a bit of the first few seasons haven’t aged wonderfully, but stilllllll.....)

Sincerely,

15+ Years Halo Fan

[mysticaltora8276]

From my usual Legends utter fool of an author Traviss. Firstly he wouldn’t be concerned about soldiers but the fact they’re sentient beings. You know for someone that keeps harping about the clones she again thinks of them as soldiers and humans second. Soooo who’s being dehumanizing? The Jedi who view them more as people who are soldiers? Or this author who views them as soldiers only?

Edit: Also “behind them is nothing” um they’re people. That should be the beginning and end of the conversation. They’ve lived, they’ve loved their brothers who are their family.

[mysticaltora8276]

Did I happen to mention that I do not like the Republic commando book series? Now the thing that I dislike aside for the obvious prejudice and racism and misogyny and ableism that permeates the book is the fact that it’s just so misinformed. And the thing is is that the author is intentionally misinformed.

Now this could’ve been an interesting story of someone with a radically stupid world view mind you in universe, but a different world nonetheless coming into contact with people who have a different world view and could’ve been good with someone who just has a weird viewpoint and an unreliable narrator. But nope. We’re supposed to take this guy seriously and take his word as gospel, even though he is demonstratively wrong.

And what’s worse is that the author constantly dismisses his emotional abuse as “being a good father.“ I don’t wanna know what kind of relationship the author had with her father because if that’s the kind of relationship that she and her father had…because it’s emotionally abusive.

Also what’s infuriating about this is the fact that there are moments tiny moments where it’s almost like her characters become self aware of how messed up it is, but they aren’t given enough screen time or they instantly shut down by non-arguments. So it’s almost like a part of the author is aware that this viewpoint is messed up, but refuses to let it go because it interferes with her fantasy. Again, if this was written by an unreliable narrator with a Jedi who has the facts to balance it out, it would’ve been interesting if a bit infuriating from a pro Jedi perspective. As is? It is a mess of prejudices, misinformation, and propaganda on the part of the author. In short, this would be good material for the Imperials to use as propaganda.

[mysticaltora8276]

Noticed that he is making it about himself and not the about the feelings of the clones in the “safe space“ for the clones. None of the clone troopers are speaking up on their own about their feelings. It’s just Skirata blustering about his and he’s not a clone. And again he is literally looking at someone who is suffering from a genocide of his people and saying that they are cowardly and “whining”. Again it’s a good thing that another Jedi survivor Kanen or Cal or Ahsoka or Reva or Obi-Wan and that’s in canon can you imagine some of the elders from legends like K’Krunk instead of that one as passive as this character is made out to be isn’t there because Skirata would be lucky if he had a face by the end of it.

And all of these others, he is making it about himself. None of it is about the clones. It’s about how he feels about it. And by the way, this clone trooper named Maze chose of his own free will to do the right thing because he knew it was right. Maze even calls him out on it. Unfortunately, this thing is never brought up again and Maze is just kind of forgotten about because he was spouting too close to the truth.

I mean, the part that gets me is this specially when he looks at Maze and says “please don’t tell me you did it out of the sense of loyalty.” Like the Jedi didn’t put their lives on the line constantly for the clones Pong Krell as an exception.

Compare that to the Bad Batch when they talk about what's going on with the Jedi. In that show it's made clear that the Batch would willing help out the Jedi because we're shown them taking one to safety. Not once is that youngling made to feel guilty about their people's genocide. Quite the contrary. So yes canon handled this way better then this alternative Traviss verse. Even Legends with its own issues handled it rather well.

[mysticaltora8276]

"So how do we justify what we are doing now? Breeding men without choice, and without freedom, to fight and die for us? When do the means justify the end? Where is our society heading? What are our ideals, and what are we without them? If we give in to expedience this way, where do we draw the line between ourselves and those we find unacceptably evil? I have no answer, Master. Do you?"

Padawan Bardan Jusik to the Jedi Council

Okay break down time

1. "So how do we justify what we are doing now? Breeding men without choice, and without freedom, to fight and die for us?" They didn't. The Sith instigated that........The Jedi know this. Jusik did you just ignore history? Or for that matter the entirity of Obi-Wan's mission. Oh right she hates Obi....

2. "When do the means justify the end? Where is our society heading? What are our ideals, and what are we without them? If we give in to expedience this way, where do we draw the line between ourselves and those we find unacceptably evil? I have no answer, Master. Do you?" Funny considering later on your fine with an abuser and someone who murders civilians for expediency.........Yeah shut up Jusik.

[mysticaltora8276]

I’ve just realized that there’s probably another character from the Republic commando series the Null arcs that I probably could work into actually being a fairly decent person…A’den. Because while he says unfair things about the Jedi, he never does anything quite morally reprehensible unlike the other four. So yeah, out of the six of them only two I can see becoming decent people while the others are more or less lost causes.

Edit: and he actually helps out a clone when needed despite there being a revelry between their batches. So yeah until he gets to Kyrimorut he actually is pretty decent aside from Jedi slander and not sharing information about things like the assassins which while bad aren’t war ending kind of bad.