#saw meta

[moonyflesh]

behind the scenes of Saw - (2004), starring Cary Elwes as “(Doctor) Lawrence Gordon”, Leigh Whanell as “Adam Stanheight”, and Tobin Bell as “John Kramer”.

((HAPPY JAMES WAN SUMMER!))

[girlwhannell]

was adam meant to free roam the bathroom?

isn’t it so unfair that adam’s key fell down the drain? it’s like he didn’t even have a chance to escape..

but isn’t that the point?

in saw 3, john tells amanda “you didn’t test anyones will to live, instead, you took away their only chance. your games were unwinnable.” and we are shown a montage of these unwinnable games. we see her fighting eric, troy in the classroom trap, kerry in the angel trap..

and her throwing adam’s key in the bathtub..

so how is amanda giving adam his key making his game unwinnable? and why does john consider that moment unfair?

is this meant to imply that amanda wasn’t supposed to do this?

maybe adam was meant to discover this key at some point, like the box in the wall, and free himself before 6. this would make it much harder for lawrence to kill him, adam could hide, he could potentially even escape. or maybe when the game was over, john would decide wether or not adam was worthy of living, getting the key for him. those options feel much more fair then his only mode of freedom falling down the drain the second he wakes up.

let’s talk about what john says in adam’s tape and if it confirms or denies this theory,

he begins with “up until now, you’ve simply sat in the shadows, watching others live out their lives.” then he actually gives adam an objective, a way to win the game, “are you going to watch yourself die today, or do something about it?”

john seems to think that it’s possible for adam to win the game, he’s meant to take control of his life, and escape.

adam managed to stay alive until 6, but he was still left to die.. so what gives? adam learns to appreciate his life and everything, he learns that he wants to be alive “i want to live!” however, what john had told him was “are you going to watch yourself die, or do something about it?”

when you really think about it, adam didn’t do anything to earn his survival. he killed zepp, sure, but that was only after the time limit was up, and he only did it to save lawrence, the man who attempted to kill him like 5 minutes ago. john certainly didn’t view that as enough, because he left him to rot.

“do something about it” could’ve meant that he was supposed to kill lawrence, which i don’t know how he could’ve done that if he’s chained to the other side of the room..

lmk what u guys think!

[envihellbender]

What do the Saw disciples have on their Spotify Wrapped?

Amanda:

Top Artists:

1. Slipknot

2. HANABIE.

3. Bring Me the Horizon

4. Alkaline Trio

5. System of a Down

Top Songs:

1. Killpop - Slipknot

2. We love sweets - HANABIE.

3. Bleed American - Jimmy Eat World

4. THE DEATH OF PEACE OF MIND - Bad Omens

5. LosT - Bring Me the Horizon

Adam (I literally write him as a disciple so much I forgot he wasn’t a canon disciple but I had already done this before I realise so here you go):

1. Architects

2. Crystal Lake

3. Silent Planet

4. Bloodywood

5. Whitechapel

Top Songs

1. Curse - Architects

2. Whiplash - Architectz

3. Woolworm - Indian Summer

4. Voices in my Head - Rare Americans

5. Gaddar - Bloodywood

Rare Americans, Misfits,

Hoffman:

Top Artists:

1. Skinny Puppy

2. Crippling Alcoholism

3. Type O Negative

4. KMFDM

5. HEALTH

Top Songs:

1. Assimilate - Skinny Puppy

2. Worlock - Skinny Puppy

3. Mr Sentimental - Crippling Alcoholism

4. Featherweight Kid - Crippling Alcoholism

5. I Don’t Wanna Be Me - Type O Negative

Lawrence

Top Artists:

1. The Beach Boys

2. Huey Lewis & The News

3. Tears for Fears

4. Phil Collins

5. Billy Idol

Top Songs:

1. California Girls - The Beach Boys

2. Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys

3. Everybody Wants to Rule the World - Tears for Fears

4. I Want A New Drug - Huey Lewis & the News

5. Heart and Soul - Huey Lewis & the News

[chainmotif]

amanda didn't know that jeff was coming nor did she know that the cops were about to raid the place, but she shot lynn anyway after john told her to 'think about tomorrow', a tomorrow when john finds out she was with cecil the night jill lost her baby and disowns her, when in reality john probably wouldn't even live through the night and she just couldn't accept it

[bringmefoxgloves]

the thing about the saw movies is that they are perhaps the horror movies (aside from lake mungo and a few other notable exceptions) that so clearly show ‘the dead haunt the narrative’ idea. 

aside from the obvious, of adam haunting the entire narrative through lawrence, there are so many others. the dead might die, but they continue to have a place in the narrative. as bodies in the bathroom (they just keep stacking and stacking, leaving different impressions on the space, different memories for the viewer). as numbers in the killing total of the jigsaw murders, lingering as little more than another bloody death, another facet of terror, but they still leave holes. 

the dead, perhaps the most of all, act as motivators for the living. examples of horrible fates they wish to avoid, people to save. there’s the dead girl haunts the narrative trope at the center of mark hoffman as a character with his sister, there’s the death of a child as a motivator for john kramer (if you accept jigsaw as part of canon, the death of a nephew as well). the death of a child again in the delon family. there’s the death of a father, that drives a child to murder in brent abbott and the threat of death of another child in the matthews family. 

the man who studies the dead, adam heffner, the mortician who has worked on all found victims of jigsaw and thus knows the secrets of the dead, the secrets of jigsaw, is killed by mark hoffman leaping out of a body bag, hidden among the dead. the dead keep their secrets and haunt the narrative and the living aren’t allowed to know them.

peter strahm’s hand is taken by mark hoffman, a puppetry of the dead, using the dead as a cover, as a scapegoat. peter strahm is there long after his death. his partner, lindsey perez, comes back from the dead, and is killed again for it.

john kramer’s death (along with all those around him: amanda and lynn and jeff) is the capstone of saw iii and saw iv opens on his body. his body holds a tape, literally a messenger of the dead. saw vi has perhaps the most telling line in it, spoken to mark who is already haunted with the dead, as he stands over john’s body:

“You think it’s the living who will have the ultimate judgement over you, because the dead will have no claim over your soul.”

[doks-aux]

My favorite thing about John "Jigsaw" Kramer is that at a certain point his actions only make sense if he's deliberately putting himself in situations that will just result in more pain for him so he can then have an excuse to torture people.

Why else buy insurance from a man who spelled out to his face his fully mathematical and detached manner of doing business unless he wanted a reason to punish him and further validation for his worldview?

[doomednarrative]

Thinking about The Bathroom Scene again after watching Saw 2004 for a second time and. I think what gets me most, in terms of Adam Specifically, is that...there was no real logical Reason for him to try and protect Lawrence from Zepp. Lawrence, who’s whole goal in the game was to kill him, and who did actually go through with shooting him when push came to shove, arguably did not deserve Adam’s protection.

And yet, Adam lays down, pretends to die in order to get the jump on Zepp, and then in a very cathartic yet sad scene to watch, beats the ever loving shit out of him, unleashing all the anger he’s had in him this entire game. Anger that gets directed into an action that saves the very person who was supposed to kill him.

Adam had a lot cut from his story in the script, but when you read through it you get the sense that he’s much more of a sympathetic character than you expect him to be. Even with what we’re given in the movie, you feel bad for him at times after seeing just how shitty his life is. He mentions his breakup with his girlfriend (over his anger, which is a point that stuck out to me Immediately tbh), the shitty apartment he lives in and the fact that he’s clearly living right on the poverty line, and he mentions that he’s estranged from his family in some way and hasn’t talked to them in some time. He’s a guy with a shitty life, who got stuck in a shitty trap thanks to trying to make ends meet through sleezy work, and in the end the game is basically rigged against him once he finds out he can’t even get the key that would unlock his chains, despite him technically winning the game because he managed to survive the whole time!!

It just...it gets me that the One direct action he takes to save anything in the games, it’s not to save himself, but to save Lawrence. And it’s not even the only time he acts sympathetically towards Lawrence considering he withholds the photo of Diana and Allison so as not to distress him further. (There’s an argument to be made that he might have withheld that info for his own gain too, but for my analysis here I’m not discussing that.)

The one real time we see this trademark anger of Adam’s that gets mentioned multiple times, it’s when he’s acting in defense of someone other than himself, and I think that says a lot about him and why a lot of people ended up liking him and being so upset over his death.

[karmaphone]

I literally think that John intended to go back for Adam. yeah he insulted him & his importance of Cherishing Your Life (give me that sweet cancer!) but he technically Survived his trap* and we know for a fact that Amanda wasn't supposed to go back and do what she did. I think John kept watching on those cameras** and intended to, just as he died, revive him and recruit him to be an apprentice. we see that at least two other times (Larry and Logan.) adam Passed, he's a stalker capable of following people and getting close without being detected, and he was Absolutely Changed by the experience. he even told him where the key to his chains were, (which he would have had access to if Amanda was willing to touch him again after putting him in the tub by putting the necklace around his neck, instead of just tossing it in the tub to slide down the drain) throw in the fact that Larry joined him and you know he'd join right away, especially considering how bleak and devoid of purpose his life was before and the way he was changed by his test

---

*technically, yes, his challenge was to survive without getting killed by Larry before 6, which he Did Accomplish. However, it was John who said that his challenge is to stop watching and Being A Voyeur and to Actually Do Something, which he did not do (until after 6. he clearly did Stop Being A Voyeur by killing Zepp to save Larry but he didn't do it within the time limit - and rules are rules) therefore I think leaving him in the bathroom (assuming that he had to have freed himself) was another Test - one that was ruined by Amanda's mercy killing

** this would also help to explain why Amanda was tested so many times by John - he watched her break down and ruin her first test and commit an outright murder, and then watched her lie to his face about it after promising to give every cell in her body over to him