hiii I'm just curious of your interpretation of the ares dialogue where he says he'd "not expected Death to have affection for another, save himself"? it's so funny for him to say that right after calling thanatos a "perfect choice of mate" lmaooo
oho. ohoho. i am smiling soooo pleasantly right now!! this dialogue does things to me and is central to my own interpretation of thanares…this is a DELIGHTFUL ask, thank you!! my apologies in advance, i'm going to expose my complete lack of normalcy and ramble a RIDICULOUS amount here. :')
in short, what i make of this dialogue is: to ares, thanatos is a "perfect choice of mate", and this includes his seeming inability or unwillingness to reciprocate affection toward others (cough. ares) in the same way. war needs death, but death doesn't need war. sure, that burns and ares wants more from thanatos than he gets, but i think he's also really into it. that said, because thanatos hasn't reciprocated affection when offered it from others in the past (presumably including ares), ares kinda assumes thanatos actually wouldn't/couldn't do so with anyone. when he does, this burns a lot more and draws into question ares' entire perception of thanatos (and the relationship ares thinks they have, whatever that may be). and ares is jealous. so he can't help but add that snarky "save himself" which i think is, in ares-typical prettied-up language, just him calling thanatos a self-absorbed wanker who spurned him. not that any of this makes ares see thanatos as less of a perfect choice, of course. because ares.
but there is SO MUCH MORE that i can rant about here and you've given me chance sooooo. haha. here's the longer, ramblier version.
in typical ares fashion, i think there are a few different and conflicting things going on in his head regarding all of this. i think ares is both genuinely surprised and genuinely happy for thanzag…but also deeply jealous and a touch bitter. this dialogue just confirms to me that ares sees himself as a jilted…something (not that thanatos necessarily even recognises that he's done any jilting).
i don't know exactly what i think went on between ares and thanatos canonically, but whatever it is—collegial, platonic, romantic, sexual, or some mysterious and more terrifying fifth option (this is where my money is)—ares clearly believes it was something deeper than thanatos does. i think that we can start to see this from ares' first dialogue about thanatos (plus all of his unhinged lusting for death more broadly). ares calls them "very close associates", which is enough to immediately send zagreus himself off to investigate wtf is happening between him and than…and thanatos just says ares is "professionally courteous" and "all right". while ares "appreciates [Thanatos'] take" on things, thanatos "does not care for [Ares'] approach at all". those are some big differences in descriptions, and ones that i suspect would have carried across into their interactions.
so, ok. we have ares fixated on whatever it is he thinks he has going on with thanatos, and thanatos being either completely oblivious and/or just not reciprocating with the same level of affection that ares offers. and this must hurt a bit, sure, but though ares seems to want more than he gets, he also doesn't seem to begrudge thanatos for not offering it to him—because, as far as ares can tell, thanatos doesn't offer affection to anyone.
i also don't think that this is a new dynamic between them. i think it's one that ares is very used to.
in the dialogues preceding the one in question, it sounds to me as though after last time ares saw him thanatos just kinda…took off without giving ares any kinds of heads up (which tracks), and has been ghosting him ever since? but, again, it is "best wishes" that ares sends, which is pretty kind for a god that's been snubbed like this. i think it safe to assume there are no grudges being held here, and that this isn't a first given ares' lack of surprise about it. and, though zagreus brings ares no response later, ares remains unfazed and still hopes "that thanatos is doing well".
so, why doesn't ares seem to take any of this as an indication that thanatos just doesn't see their relationship, whatever it may be, as being as deep as he does? why doesn't ares seem particularly upset at this point? i'll be reaching a bit more now, but i still think the argument is a fair one for me to make...
for starters, though ares clearly has sadistic tendencies, i think he also shows submissive and masochistic ones—especially where death is concerned. he is a self-proclaimed "student of death",* and speaks of death in, to my ears, the manner of a devotee (and we know ares is not too proud to worship; chaos names him as one that still makes offerings to them). i don't think ares sees himself and thanatos as having an equal relationship in this regard, nor do i think he necessarily dislikes it when thanatos fails to return the same depth of affection. instead, i think he finds something appealing in this particular pain. i think he kinda loves the hurt involved in yearning for and showing devotion to someone so immovable, someone that simultaneously gives his entire domain/existence meaning. especially because i reckon he thinks that this is just how thanatos is. beyond the game canon, i'm reminded here of aeschylus fragment 82:
"For, alone of gods, Thanatos loves not gifts; no, not by sacrifice, nor by libation, can you avail with him; he has no altar nor hymn of praise; from him, alone of gods, Peitho stands aloof." (peitho here being a companion of aphrodite, associated particularly with the persuasion of love and desire)
ares knows thanatos as a god that cannot be moved by any shows of affection toward him and who will not allow any affection he himself feels move him in turn, and this mediates how ares goes on to interpret than's treatment of himself. it doesn't matter if thanatos feels affection for him, ares knows that thanatos will not allow it to affect his actions even if he does, knows that he will hold himself aloof from peitho.
and again, i think it's in part because of this that ares sees thanatos as "a perfect choice of mate": because though ares yearns for more than thanatos offers him, i think that he delights in the torment of this yearning and in the savouring of (and reading into) what crumbs he does get. also…well, considering the lack of affection that ares receives from his parents, i wonder if he might find open displays of affection more difficult to trust (hence his initial standoffishness toward aphrodite in brazen sky in my interpretation of him). i think ares likes the restraint and the denial and the chase. i think that he enjoys that, to his mind, thanatos seems to be intentionally withholding affection from him. and i think that ares not only enjoys it but trusts it, because it's something that he knows.
and…then he realises that thanatos is completely smitten with zagreus, is accepting gifts from zagreus, is risking everything he's worked for—is even risking being locked in tartarus, after what ares knows thanatos went through with sisyphus—for zagreus. gods. it must forcefully recontextualise an awful lot for him. because now it's clear that being unaffectionate isn't something innate to thanatos—he just isn't moved by affection from ares, doesn't reciprocate affection equally with ares.
and...this is something of a pattern in ares' life, isn't it? so perhaps being unaffectionate isn't a property innate to thanatos, so much as being unworthy of affection is one innate to ares...BUT ANYWAY, we're going to avoid examining that much further here, just as ares himself would. :') my point is, of course ares would be a bit bitter...but this too is something he's familiar with.
yet ares likes his kin, this new family member that has taken even ares himself aback with his many shows of affection that lack ulterior motive. and ares feels…whatever it is that he does in-game for thanatos...so continues to cling to his own role of devotee toward him, even if now their relationship appears not quite what he may have thought. ares is a "student of death", is himself nothing without death, and it would seem that death has yet more to teach him. because of their dynamic, ares will take it all in stride.
so, though ares sees himself and thanatos as "very close associates" and zagreus and thanatos as only having grown "rather close"…he will support it. no, he will encourage it even, with an intense, voyeuristic kind of investment. as ares sees it, after all, "life and death are inextricable", and, if war can merely be "what connects the two", then dammit he will connect the two (and possibly try to live vicariously through his more likeable kin that he keeps trying to align with himself with).
…and this brings me to ares and how he thinks of zagreus. because i think that ares kinda sees himself in, and projects a decent bit of himself onto, zagreus—as do all of the olympians because they are all so messed up and desperate for genuine connection, BUT I DIGRESS. it's worthwhile to note that ares very frequently creates this connection between him and zagreus with reference to death. he does this from their very first dialogue, welcoming zag as a "fellow student of death", then continues doing so. later on, talking as one admirer of death to another (notably positioning himself here as holding a position of authority on the matter), ares states that "death rears its head in all too many forms" and encourages zag to try to "find them all" (though ares suggests it might be that he—zagreus, not ares—never will). over the course of the entire game, ares continues to position them as aligned, with both of them sharing interests that others fail to understand (murder. he means murder), and assuming that they are just generally in agreement. i could also talk about fathers here too, but i won't.
ANYWAY. in short, i think ares imagines that zagreus is in many ways like himself. and it follows that if ares feels thanatos would make a "perfect choice of mate" for himself, then of course he would also make a "perfect choice of mate" for zagreus. and, because ares is fond of zagreus and worships thanatos, he will determinedly support thanzag, even if he can't resist making the occasional salty remark.
sooo, yeah. all of that is to say…i think this dialogue just shows that ares is both a committed simp for death and the #1 biggest thanzag shipper, even if he is also intensely jealous of them.
THANK YOU FOR THIS ASK!!! this reply quickly became unmanageable, so hopefully it makes some sense and i didn't contradict myself any more than is becoming of a discussion about ares lol.
*i am interchangeably referring to instances where ares uses death/Death here, a delightful distinction made in sgg dialogue. my justification is 1) who are we meant to be receiving this written dialogue from? i'm assuming the here-unnamed narrator, which puts a barrier of interpretation between us and ares' actual intended meaning. which death/Death does ares mean in his dialogues? i don't thing we can know this for certain. 2) i question how much ares' view of thanatos himself may be tied up in than's role as death incarnate. to what extent does ares himself actually distinguish between death and Death? 3) i just think it's more fun. :)
UPDATE: if you enjoyed my answer here, you should absolutely check out this ask that i sent to @invisinoob, where he considers a few additional interpretations.
What is your favorite word in httyd franchise. Not phrase, just word lol
Lmao, that's a good one, words are harder to choose than phrases! Not sure if you mean the franchise as a whole or the movies or the books, but I would say:
I decided to make a genderfluid ask game in honor of genderfluid information day! Send in as many as you would like, there are even some I encourage you to send multiple of! Ask away!
Favorites
🌟: Do you have a favorite gender? If so what is it?
🚻: Do you have a favorite way to present? If so what is it?
🖊: Do you have a favorite set of pronouns? If so what is it?
❤️: Whats your favorite thing about being genderfluid?
🎬: Who’s your favorite genderfluid person/character/head cannon?
Changes
🎲: How often does your gender change?
🎺: Do you notice right away when your gender changes?
👨👩👧👦: Does who you’re around affect your gender?
🤹: Does what you’re doing affect your gender?
💻: Does being online vs irl affect your gender?
🎭: Do your emotions affect your gender?
👕: How does (or do you want) your presentation to change when your gender changes?
Gender List
🕒: What’s your current gender?
🙋♂️: What’s your most masculine gender?
🙋♀️: What’s your most feminine gender?
👞: What’s a random masculine gender you experience?
👠: What’s a random feminine gender you experience?
👟: What’s a random androgynous gender you experience?
🧦: What’s a random xeno gender you experience?
ℹ️: Are you ever [insert gender]?
Other
🏳️🌈: What does being genderfluid mean to you?
🔔: How did you figure out you were genderfluid?
💭: What was the first gender you identified in yourself (besides cis)?
🔛: How do you feel about [insert gendered term]?
⁉️: Ask what ever you want related to being genderfluid!
I've been binging your thanares fics and they're soo good 😭 they're such an underrated pair and you do them such justice! almost up to date with 'the brazen sky' and loving it, i adore how you write ares. he deserves more love ❤️❤️
awwwww thank you so much for such a lovely ask, i’m so glad you’ve been enjoying them!! 😭
thanares ATTACKED me unexpectedly earlier this year and i’ve not been the same since. i am haunted by them. it’s a delight!!
and ohhh, ares. he just kept elbowing his way into my earlier thanzag and thanatos pov fics until i finally caved and gave him his own…and now the brazen sky so fixed by stars is already my longest fic lol! he’s really just like a scrappy stray cat that turned up at my door and decided he lives here now. :’) i’m so glad!!! he deserves all the love and i just adore him – i’m glad you do too ❤️😭
If you are okay with revealing this....are there any gods we can expect to see in brazen sky? We've had wonderful experiences with Furor, the Keres, Hebe and Eli- Eileithyia buttt, anyone else to look forward to?? *blink blink* I'm most curious about Aphrodite (because of the. yk. secret lovers and the children. But there does seem to be sizeable difference in aphro-ares-heph drama in the game then in mythology so. curious how (or if) you'll be tackling that. also haha imagine she's kinda like what Ares was to Than in threads of gold which means you'll end up making a spin off series about them including a prequel and all the works. just like thanares.) and Enyo (because welll goddess of war who's in some versions a child of zeus and others a child of Nyx)
Anyways okay thats all for now byeeee
Hello again!! What a delightful few questions these have been, thank you!!
This one is slightly tricky; I will do my best not to ramble too much, but I probably still will lol. Ultimately, I have the answer that I currently believe to be true…but I also have the knowledge that this particular fic has been having its way with me and not the other way around, so this could change despite my best intentions!
The answer that I currently believe to be true is: for the most part, I’m not going to engage too much with gods that I haven’t at this point already introduced. I really try to give all of my characters at least a small character arc to go through, and when planning the brazen sky so fixed by stars (which I thought would be 7-9 chapters…oops), I was worried that if I included too many of the gods, I might compromise my ability to do this for each of them.
Now with all of that said, onto the next, more specific (and more spoiler-y) parts of your question!
APHRODITE!!! The simple answer here is that Aphrodite will not be playing an explicitly substantial role in brazen sky because this fic is intended to be pre-AphroAres and the way that I’m writing it, AphroAres don’t interact too much prior to the ThanAres collapse. That said, this does not mean that Aphrodite will have no presence in brazen sky whatsoever.
Full disclosure: I adore Ares and Aphrodite. You know how excited I get about the interplay between Ares’ and Than’s domains? Yeah, I get nearly as excited about this with regards to Ares and Aphrodite (sometimes more, depending on the day). Plus, I think that they are terrifying together (and often messy), which you know I love lol.
With regards to your threads of gold point: if pressed, I would say that Aphrodite becomes more to Ares what Zag is to Than, though they have very different dynamics. I would call them endgame, but not in a traditional or monogamous sense. I do not think gods are particularly interested in either of those things lol.
I don’t actually know anything about how Hades 2 is tackling the Aphro-Ares-Heph drama as I’ve somehow managed to avoid those particular spoilers. That said, I have my own loose take but I’ve not fleshed it out completely as I’m not planning to get to it in brazen sky – I’m going to stick with a predominantly ThanAres focus here, while sowing the seeds for future AphroAres. This is because, though I’m slightly terrified of getting roped into writing another longfic as I approach the crunch time for my thesis…I do have an idea for a brazen sky sequel with an AphroAres focus knocking about in my mind and I far prefer writing fanfic to working on said thesis lol. But we'll see, no promises!!
Sooo, I sadly don’t have a solid answer for you about the Aphro-Ares-Heph drama yet. But, to throw some Aphrodite crumbs your way, should you want them…
I think that Aphrodite is very aware of ThanAres. She is the goddess of love after all. In fact, I think Aphrodite winds up following the ThanAres drama quite closely. At first, she does it for entertainment, because of course she would clock Ares’ hopeless crush and find it entertaining. The murderous, socially-incompetent War guy who can’t even do his own job right half the time pining *pointlessly* after the notoriously serious and immovable Death Incarnate is so amusing, after all. Aphrodite is tuned in for this ridiculous soap opera. But then I think she gets surprised and starts to ship it; she gets invested. Not just because ThanAres does happen, but because of just how much heart Ares actually has and how much love he proves himself capable of giving. I think that Aphrodite finds that fascinating and incredibly endearing. Then, all of a sudden, Aphrodite realizes she has a crush of her own.
I actually wrote a messy little bit about this back in April while trying to work through it in my own mind. I still don’t know if I’ll ever actually write this fic or not, so if you would like to read my messy thoughts then let me know and I don’t mind sharing them with you (though there are some brazen spoilers in it). :)
ANYWAY.
ENYO!!! Yay, Enyo mention!! Originally, I wasn’t going to include her in brazen sky because I was a bit worried about putting everybody off by having too many ‘OC-ish’ characters, but so far, the feedback I’ve gotten is that…you guys seem to like my OC-ish characters? I’m not going to lie, the positive way that Eileithyia, Hebe and Furor were received did give me the confidence to allow them into the narrative more than was originally planned (which has been a factor in how unruly this fic has become for me, but a welcome one). Anyway, I do know how I would like to write Enyo and have actually been thinking about whether I would like to bring her in or not. If I ever write the potential AphroAres sequel then she will certainly appear there…but there is a chance that she may elbow her way into my fic-verse sooner. We’ll see, no promises.
Thanks for the ask, I am always happy to answer these (as I hope my ranting reply indicates)!! :D
Well hiiiii there. So. I can't believe you've only been asked something once?? I mean, on Tumblr, I'm sure you've been asked many questions loll. Anyways I feel this must be rectified soooo. Incoming 2 questions.
Number 1. I've always been dreadfully curious about this (and forgive me if you've answered this like in the story or elsewhere my memory is ass). Why is it that Furor goes by her Roman name in your fics? Is it like difference in domain sort of, kinda like how Mars and Ares are different in how they represent war?
2nd question in another ask because I got a bit side tracked <3
Why hello again!! This really is only the second ask I’ve ever had here haha. Very exciting stuff!!! :D
YES, FUROR ASK!! I may ramble a little bit as I think this is a very, very fun one, so my apologies for that in advance lol.
In the brazen sky so fixed by stars notes, I give the simplified answer that I use the name Furor for two reasons:
In-story reason: when she meets Ares, Furor is still very wary of him and opts to give him a name she knows he will not recognise out of caution. It winds up sticking (and I suspect that Furor quietly finds that she likes it, so ditches the old name).
Real-world reason: This is the name used for her in the Thebaid, which is the text that first sparked my interest in her. It stuck in my head (and I quietly liked it too lol).
However, there is a lot more background that I can offer you as to why exactly I was so drawn to the name Furor and why I felt that this particular name was better suited to my take on her character.
To start, as I mentioned above my initial interest in Furor came about because of her appearance in the Thebaid, specifically in the below Book 7 passage (full text from theoi.com) which takes place in Mars' Halls on Mount Haemus:
Here he observes barren forests, the sacred haunts of Mars – and he shudders as he looks – where on the far slopes of Haemus his savage mansion is ringed by a thousand furies. The walls are of iron structure, iron portals bear upon the threshold, the roof is carried by columns wrought of iron. The rays of Phoebus are weakened when they meet it, the very light fears that dwelling, and its murky glare dismays the stars. Fit sentinels hold watch there: from the outer gate wild Passion leaps, and blind Mischief and Angers flushed red and pallid Fear, and Treachery lurks with hidden sword, and Discord holding a two-edged blade. Threatenings innumerable make clamour in the court, sullen Valour stands in the midst, and Rage exultant [Furor] and armed Death with blood-stained visage are seated there; no blood but that of wars is on the altars, no fire but snatched from burning cities. All around were spoils of every land, and captured peoples adorned the temple’s high front, and fragments of iron-wrought gates and ships of war and empty chariots and faces ground by chariot-wheels, ay, almost even their groans! truly every form of violence and wounds. Himself was everywhere to behold […] (40-60)
Now, you can probably see why I love all of this, as it is something of a staple reference in quite a few of my fics. BUT, focusing on Furor! The part of this passage that I was initially most interested in was the part I’ve bolded, in which we see Mors [Thanatos] not only at Mars’ house, but armed and bloody.
At this point, I must note a conversation that I had with my friend @panathenaia about ThanAres while I was still publishing threads of gold, in which she drew my attention to the Latin for this section of the passage. In this, Rage exultant is named as Furor:
stat medio, laetusque furor uultuque cruento
Mors armata sedet; bellorum solus in aris
Further, the close proximity of their names - they are essentially sat together in the text, set apart from the other named attendees by a comma and a semicolon - led us to consider that they themselves may have been actually sitting together. And how interesting a pairing, what unusual circumstances!! Death, who is supposed to be calm and immovable, not only in the house of Mars but visibly in an absolute state – and paired with Furor? It seems odd company for Mors to keep. I was very interested in what circumstances might lead to such a thing and ultimately decided that perhaps Mors hadn’t sat himself there so much as he had been seated there. Why might that have been done, and by whom? Now, in my indulgent reading (which I playa bit more with in hateful things)...I just think it is interesting to raise the point that, not long after this, Mars returns to the battlefield and sends panic ahead of him to sow
ferus omni in pectore saeuit
mortis amor caedisque (137-138)
…‘a mad love [or lust] for death and slaughter raged in every heart’. I just think that's kinda neat. :-)
From there things only got worse where Furor is concerned. Take, for instance, the Aeneid and Dido's intense, tragic love, which is often described as a kind of furor (thanks again to @panathenia, who set me on this track). For example, one of a few little quotes I pulled out for when I need to feel things:
ardet amans Dido, traxitque per ossa Furorem (101)
Loving Dido burns, and she has dragged rage through her bones.
Anyway, as you can imagine, I have *no thoughts at all* about any of this. :-)
All of this is to say that, firstly, I use the name Furor because I am rather sentimental and think very fondly of both my early encounters with this source and the conversations that I have had surrounding it!
Secondly, even though I knew that the correct Greek equivalent was Lyssa, through all of my spiraling it was the references to Furor that most caught my attention. The more I thought about her, the more she really did become her own being for me with her own associations (which were predominantly Roman).
Thirdly, and as you are also well aware of at this point, there is little that I enjoy more than tormenting my friends with targeted attacks and references in fics! Having a Roman name in some Ancient Greek fanfics was a trade-off I was willing to accept in the name of violence. I have considered going back and changing all of the Furor mentions to Lyssa many times, but at this point I’ve already come too far and Furor is here to stay lol. <3
Thank you for you delightful question, I hope that this answers it!! :D
Hiiii Sennnn. Happy fanfic writer appreciation day! So. *hefts mic up* I have questions.
With brazen sky, do you think it'll end up a similar length to threads of gold, or do you think the Characters have pulled you in far too deep for that to occur? And also, as it's a sequel I'm curious as to where you'll end it off. If you're inclined to share with the class ofc.
Okay yeah that's all the questions I have but. Just to reiterate something as per the theme of this dayyyyy. I APPRECIATE YOUR WRITING!!! IT MAKES ME VERY INSANE AND I THINK YOU DESERVE TO BE FAMOUS FOR IT. Okay byeeee ^-^
OH HI, HELLO!!!
*picks up mic* yeah, so, this is actually my first ever ask? AND you’ve asked me to talk about my favourite possible topic that i am always inclined to share things about?? ahhh thank you!!!
Ok, this actually feels serious for some reason so I need to change register.
With brazen sky the original plan had been for it to be the same length as threads. I really liked the idea of those two fics mirroring each other! But then, as you quite rightly suggested, The Characters had their say and now we are already 5 chapters in without having made it beyond what was originally chapter 3 material. Whoops.
When writing the skeleton draft for brazen sky, it turns out that I really hadn’t accounted for just how much I would become invested in the Olympians as characters and their family dynamics. During the process of editing and fleshing out scenes that initially had felt more like connective tissue for the meatier ThanAres part of the story, those family scenes wound up taking on far more weight. While editing what was originally chapter 2, this became abundantly clear and I really just had to let go of my original plans and bend to the will of the gods. It worked out for the best but now it is a lot harder to say exactly how long this fic will wind up being. This is the first time that I’ve had a fic attack me this badly after I’d already begun posting, which is both terrifying and thrilling. Honestly, I really should have expected this from Ares!!
With all of this in mind, I currently have two different possible places where brazen sky could end. One of them aligns more closely to the timeline of when threads ended, and the second is a little bit further after. I won’t even lie anymore; it depends on The Characters which one you will get here. If, as we get closer to it, the first option feels like the correct ending for brazen sky, then the second option will simply become a shorter (please Ares, I beg of you) fic for the war and death series. I wasn't sure just how much detail you wanted to know; you can feel free to message me if you'd like to know more!
As a side note (and one that is relevant to all of the above), despite all appearances I am actually having the time of my life writing brazen sky! I really do love writing all of these characters and getting to share them so incredibly much!!
(and thank you so much??? 😭😭 it’s not been a fun day but this lovely ask just made it a lot better!!!)
