#sentitheory salt

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Thomas and writers: Children created from amoks are no less human than regularly born children. It’s just a different way about being born. I don’t see how anyone could have problems with it.

Me: (who actually thought about it for more than 10 seconds) Yea you might want to think about it more

[miraculosus]

When I say I can’t accept sentiadrien or even that I deny it, that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s canon it means I think it was a bad move. And it makes me not want to watch the show

[ilikekidsshows]

The thing I don't like from the senti theory that been going around lately in the fandom is that some people like to simplified and reduce Adrien's reaction and act simply because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien having trouble to express his anger? Oh it's because he's created that way. Adrien is a people pleaser? Yeah that's because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien can't talk back to his father? Gabriel made him can't do it by twisting his ring! Gabriel commanded Adrien and he comply? That's because Gabriel has his amok! They agree that Adrien is abused but most of them also agree that Adrien's inability to fight back Gabriel command is solely because of the amok not a trauma respond or at least mostly the former.

I'm a firm believer that senti Adrien is a big bullshit because if Gabriel has that power to control Adrien 24/7 then he would do it without hesitation, he won't need to wait until Adrien show a sign of rebelling to use it. He would do it every fucking single time! This is Gabriel, the same person who mock Ladybug and Cat Noir for getting sentimental over a sentimonster after all.

If I have a power that could control my son-puppet emotion, feeling and action, I wouldn't bother to manipulate-gaslight him. It's a waste of time and energy. He doesn't like the pancake I made? Twist the amok and he would eat it without protest. No effort needed. Unless this is the whole Even Evil Has Standard but I doubt it is.

This is another case of the Senti Stans being completely unaware of the implications of the things they’re saying. Like, they do not mean to imply the things they imply, you’ll see this in how genuinely angry and defensive they get every time someone points out said implications. This doesn’t change the fact that almost every single time a new defense of SentiAdrien shows up, it does indeed imply some stuff that really grinds people’s gears.

Because, here’s the thing; chalking up Adrien’s trauma responses as being a result of him being a Sentimonster is literally saying that he acts the way he does because he is not human. This idea that his Sentimonster programming informs his behavior is the same thing as saying that these actions make more sense if he’s not human. Said actions being trauma responses creates the implication that people who act like they’ve been traumatized act in unreasonable, weird or inhuman ways. It’s literally othering trauma victims as something other than a “normal” human.

This is why people who are against the SentiAdrien concept say that the concept makes light of Adrien’s story being an abuse story. The Stans can claim until they’re blue in the face that they still view Adrien’s abuse as abuse, but everything else they say creates implications that ring as the opposite, especially when they say that him being a Sentimonster would “explain” his or Gabriel’s behavior, when nothing about their situation is different from a real life abusive relationship.

If something already happens in the real world, unless the fictional universe is changing its mechanics, it requires no fantastical explanation. In the world of Equestria, seasons don't pass naturally, so the ponies need to pull off a Winter Wrap-up to change winter to spring. The only reason Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's responses to it would need to be explained is if neither existed naturally in the world of Miraculous. And, since Miraculous seems to be functioning similarly to our world when it comes to family stuff, that would be like the show was denying the actual existence of abusive families, especially if all the rich/abused kids are Sentimonsters, which is the popular current take on the concept.

In a fandom where people still vilify Adrien for his trauma responses, let’s not give the hatedom even more reasons to demonize him by saying him being a Sentimonster explains jack shit. It just gives people who don’t sympathize or empathize with trauma victims a free pass.

Here’s the thing about Gabriel’s characterization in a SentiAdrien situation: it doesn’t work no matter how you spin it. No matter what he’ll come out of it with inconsistent characterization and his behavior not making sense.

Option one is that Gabriel doesn’t care about Adrien and doesn’t care about Sentimonsters. That means that he would be using the Amok constantly to get out of dealing with Adrien wanting different things than he does, but he doesn’t do that so it’s inconsistent.

Option two is that Gabriel loves Adrien and therefore doesn’t want to control him. Then why is he okay with other people keeping hold of his son’s essence when he couldn’t trust them to begin with (Félix) or is learning he can’t trust them anymore (Nathalie)? It still doesn't make sense.

Either way we spin Gabriel’s relationship to his remote-control robot son, it just doesn’t work. Even if we go back by about a year back to the third option of Gabriel not knowing Adrien is a Sentimonster, that would just make all the Sentimonster “foreshadowing” nonsense.

[ilikekidsshows]

Thank you for all of your meta/analysis post! I've been binge reading your ML post and sadly, I too has lost interest in miraculous ever since s4 and even more so when I saw a clips that kind of confirmed that at least Kagami and Felix are senti. If Adrien too is a senti then it's no longer the story that I want to watch, after he's degraded to become a sidekick by s4, thinking that he'd be something less than a human just sadden me greatly especially since I've been in similar position as him and I'm always want to see how he free himself. But if he's a senti then his life is at the mercy of his cousin and even though felix said that the act of creating and deleting a sentimonster is monstrous and he won't do that, it still doesn't sit right for me. I want a story about a child who's abused by their BIOLOGICAL parents and try to get free from that toxic environment, not another Disney-esque story where the child is abused by their step parents and need a magic to break free or a prince charming to save them. Oh well it was good while it last I guess.

Thanks! Yeah, a lot of us who like Adrien a bit too much are dropping the show after we saw how season four treated him. Frankly, I was actually briefly worried that season five might end up being good, because then I'd have to watch season four to catch up. So season five being even worse is technically a good thing since now I don't have to watch "Kuro Neko". Frankly, with how different the show ended up feeling from what got me into it, I consider the start of season four a retooling of the series and seasons 1-3 the original Miraculous.

Apparently the new take on what real life family situation SentiAdrien parallels is artificial semination/fertility treatments, to try to deflect from the accusation that the concept demonizes unconventional family structures. However, that just means they're now demonizing fertility treatments. There are sects who fully believe that getting fertility treatments is going against some higher power that has decided that you'd be an unfit parent (many fundamentalist christian groups naturally believe this). Having the couples who resorted to magical fertility treatments always include at least one person who by all rights shouldn't have kids (Tomoe, Mr. Fathom according to Félix and supposedly Gabriel) is very much in line with this kind of thinking.

There's a reason I've been saying "the Sentimonsters better not be a metaphor for anything". The thing is that the very concept of "sentipeople" is so misguided that it will end up demonizing whatever group it's trying to drum up sympathy for. In addition, the instant you start to think about what being a Sentimonster would mean to a person, it becomes horrific. I can't see there being a satisfying conclusion because I don't care if the Amok or Peacock are in the hands of someone trustworthy: it's inherently wrong for anyone to have that power over another person. And Félix isn't even trustworthy.

If the 2002 He-Man was in Miraculous, he'd crush the Peacock Miraculous into dust and free Duusu to return to concept space. It's really the safest and the only morally correct choice.

[ilikekidsshows]

So apparently people said that Kagami too is a sentimonster and her amok is in her ring and it's not only her but rich people kid are sentimonster some people said and I just can't stress enough about the purpose on making a character a sentimonster, a being that the heroes killed here and there. Of course the theory stan would say that the sentimonster the heroes killed is not humanoid and therefore isn't the same but if Felix could sympathize with any sentimonster regardless the form as shown in strike back where he feel sad over a fallen sentimonster then wouldn't that make the heroes the cruel one for killing the sentimonster and therefore has no sympathy toward them just because they're not humanoid in shape?

If characters who are not themselves Sentimonsters are the ones deciding which Sentimonsters get human rights, even against the opinions of a confirmed human-level Sentimonster, a “Sentiperson” (assuming Félix is one), then we literally have a situation where a specific, small group of non-Sentimonster people is going to prioritize Sentimonsters that look, act and feel human to them, with the rest getting erased and not grieved. They get to decide which ones get to live and which ones can die unmourned, and the only Sentimonsters they’ll allow to live will be the ones they have personal relationships with. Even if said human characters are people who try to be empathetic and kind like Marinette, and the Sentimonsters getting erased aren't ones the audience is attached to, it's still a horrifying concept.

“This Sentimonster causes property damage so we have to get rid of them.”

“I’ve personally seen this Sentimonster act human enough for me so they get to stay.”

The Sentimonsters have their human rights depend on pleasing a person who arbitrarily has control over them. That’s really oppressive, isn’t it? Add to that the fact that Sentimonsters are designed to be slaves, so they’ll always have to be controlled, and it just gets really bad in terms of what this children’s show is saying about its characters. In cases where the knowledge of being a Sentimonster is being kept from said characters, that's saying that they need a "real" human making decisions in their stead over what they should know, in a conservatorship, if you will.

Even if we get lore that establishes that only Sentimonsters that are indistinguishable from humans count as basically humans because they’re fundamentally different from all the rest, it still doesn’t look good with the “all the rich kids are Sentimonsters” concept. And that’s because it frames a group of people with very specific othering traits as inhuman and it makes their continuing treatment in the show as lesser hold some really unsavory implications.

If the Venn diagram of Miraculous characters with family-related trauma and characters called literally "monsters" by the show is a circle, that's a problem, because that is making the Sentimonsters a stand-in for specific types of trauma victims and then proceeding to dehumanize said trauma victims for having “off-putting” ways of dealing with their trauma and abuse.

[miraculosus]

Look I’m happy for all the people who enjoy the sentihuman stuff but it’s like the cilantro soap thing for me. there are phenomenal fanworks that throngs of people praise to high heavens but i may never read just cuz of the heebies. I keep tag filtering on and poke at canon with a long stick. That’s just how it is

[miraculosus]

It should be known that I despise everything “senti-human” implicates in the canon narrative so naturally I was thinking about alternative explanations and I’ve got one that’s still kinda fucked up but isn’t magical robochild slavery: sentisurrogacy. That is, Emilie (or who ever else) upon being unable or unwilling to conceive/carry a child to term naturally would put the burden on a sentimonster which would then be duly disposed of once no longer of use in the manner of sentinino, sentialec, sentigabriel, etc. (mere simulacra and firmly not to be considered autonomous beings by the heroes or anyone; the fact they wear human likenesses increases only their threat level and not their humanity). A magic artificial incubator doesn’t even strictly require a humanoid form.

This route avoids destroying established characters by retroactively diminishing their humanity and smothering their self-determination prospects.

However it does open a separate can of worms as we wouldn’t want to demonize those who seek solutions to infertility, and the ethics of real-life surrogacy with real human people’s wombs remain controversial. (It also doesn’t explain the severity of her peacock fatigue as neatly as the sentinanny theory does.) Not that the show frames Adrien’s conception as a sin against nature or Emilie’s fate as its due punishment—she’s clearly shown as tragic/sympathetic/near-holy mother or whatever (albeit with sinister undertones but overall not malicious)..

[gale-gentlepenguin]

awholelotofladybug here. If it makes you feel any better, I have a slew of AUs, and in most of them, all the senti-kids are just kids.

Technically sentitheory isn’t 100% official until it’s stated…

But there are always AU’s

And for that I’m great full