Anyway call me a fandom old but I love when people still use chatty Ao3 tags that are tone-setting or even conversational and aren't just bare-bones nutrition label listings of fic contents. I know it was maybe a little out of hand back in the day and there's a lot of good that developed concurrently with the "content warning" styles of tagging, but a chatty unique tag is still wayyy more useful to me in the header when I'm browsing fics than someone tagging a 100k plot-heavy au with every specific sexual act that happens one time somewhere in the fic. Like. Who's reading that to specifically get their phone sex fix? Not me. Let me know what headspace you were in while writing! Tell me why that other core tag you threw on there doesn't QUITE fit but is relevant. Give me what I need to know about your story even if it doesn't fit into a neat little marketable box!
Like I mean this not even just in a "relax have fun!" kind of way (though that too). These chatty tags denote tone in ways that can efficiently go beyond a bare-bones purist's tag - and can be and become referential in and of themselves in ways that go beyond the raw text. For example; [character]'s A+ parenting about a character who isn't even in the story directly can denote themes of generational trauma, abuse history, communication issues, etc. and reference to a whole suite of shared fandom knowledge about a character's family history. It lets us do this without needing to overtag for those sub topics or suggest that so many of those things are central elements to the story rather than as a general character history vibe that might come up. It's a "known fandom idiom" now, but it all had to start with one person using a "non-standard" tag.
Also. Ao3 is perfectly fine with this style of tagging, they have explicitly said so, and that the tagging system is designed for this sort of flexibility specifically because it captures an important part of fandom culture that's being archived along with the art.
Does anyone think of how a fandom collectively will pick a character to absolutely despise the Canon depiction and everyone collectively rewrites the character to be a bastardized flanderization of said character?
What's that hated character in your fandom? Do you particularly love them?
and since I know that most people here seem to feel differently about that scene than I do and actually love it (which I don’t), I’m putting my thoughts below the cut. You know, don’t like, don’t read, etc etc.
I’m finally gathering the courage to voice my thoughts on why this scene bothers me so much. Please keep in mind that this is my personal opinion, shared on my personal blog, based on my own impressions and experiences with this topic.
Call me prude, but for me, the entire scene felt uncomfortable and left a sour taste in my mouth for several reasons. I honestly can’t wrap my head around why so many people seem so unbothered by it or even love it that much.
First of all, even if we assume that Moiraine and Siuan are breaking up, I’m not on board with the whole “yas, go for it, girl” rebound narrative. They’ve been in a relationship/marriage for over 20 years. Unless the word breakup is used, I don’t think we can assume they’re officially done. Yes, Siuan betrayed Moiraine in 2x07 (though, to be fair, Moiraine wasn’t exactly a saint either so I don’t place all the blame on Siuan). But considering the depth of their relationship, I’d expect them to have a definitive conversation before ending things, especially given their shared responsibilities and history. No matter what Moiraine assumes about their status, I feel like there needs to be a clear, final acknowledgment of their separation before we treat them as truly over.
And honestly, they don’t seem over. Moiraine’s emotional support fishing net, her saving Siuan and her little eyebrow twitch, the kiss from the trailer - all suggest there’s still something between them (and we know there will be). Even if they are broken up at this point, it’s only been about a month. I get that people handle breakups differently, but I don’t see Moiraine as someone who immediately starts messing around the moment she’s out of a long-term relationship.
Now, setting aside the possible cheating aspect, there are other issues with this scene: Lan. Oh my god, brother? We see in 3x01 that Moiraine is still yearning for Siuan. She’s clearly not over her and isn’t emotionally in a good place. Lan basically even mentions indirectly how unhappy she seems. And yet, he suggests this as a solution? As if Moiraine is just going to forget 20+ years of Siuan because some random stranger flashes her tits? I’m so sick of the trope that sex is a magical fix for emotional distress after a breakup. And… Moiraine wasn’t even thinking in that direction until Lan put the idea in her head, which makes it feel even more forced and icky. His suggestion kinda boils down to “quit moping and get laid so we aren‘t that miserable anymore,” without any thought given to the emotional fallout.
Does he (or Moiraine) really think she’d truly feel better afterward? Has anyone who’s ever had rebound sex actually forgotten their ex because of it? Did it magically fix everything? Did it bring you lasting happiness? Or regret and even more pain? Anyway. His advice felt dismissive, and more broadly, the way the show treats cheating as something casual or insignificant is frustrating. (Honestly, this issue extends beyond Moiraine and Siuan. Rand/Egwene comes to mind, and Egwene deserved so much better as well).
And yes, maybe it was intended as a lighthearted, funny moment, just some banter between Lan and Moiraine. But for me, it’s an absolute flop and not cute at all. I hope we don’t actually see Moiraine cheating or anything like that, but even the implication alone already makes me mad and sad. If the show actually goes there, I don’t think if I can stand behind it.
And before anyone argues that maybe Moiraine and Siuan aren’t monogamous, or that Siuan wouldn’t care. Sure, we don’t know for certain. But based on what the show has told us about their relationship, all we’ve seen so far is a deep commitment, loyalty and resilience, at least up until 2x07. And if we’re going with the idea that wanderer!Moiraine can be off having casual sex with strangers while Siuan sits in the Tower, unable to do the same because of her position as the Amyrlin… well, that doesn’t sound like a very balanced dynamic to me.
Which brings me to another issue: Moiraine is off in the Waste, thinking about casually hooking up with some stranger, while Siuan is back at the Tower, dealing with absolute chaos? I saw other posts about how lonely Siuan seems, and I felt that. Imagine being in her position! I say it again; Imagine being in her position! She’s probably riddled with guilt and regret and hurting too (as we can see in her expressions in both 2x07 and 3x01, and in her conversation with the kiddos). But she’s got responsibilities, political turmoil and an entire broken Tower to manage. I’m pretty sure she’s not off checking out some other naked woman because, you know… she has business to handle and shit to deal with (as does Moiraine, actually). Idk, I just feel so sorry for Siuan. And again, if we assume they’re truly broken up and will try to reconcile later, Moiraine’s “one hour of happiness” would/could complicate things even more.
I also know that Tumblr is obsessed with Moiraine/Lanfear, which is another idea I don’t love and haven’t been quiet about. But honestly? I’d rate the sweat tent scene as even worse because that is happening in real-time. Moiraine isn’t dreaming, isn’t having a vision, isn’t being threatened or forced. She isn‘t even gaining knowledge or power or whatever by (considering) sleeping with that woman.
Moreover, the sweat tent scene rubs me the wrong way because I cannot see Moiraine‘s character behaving like this. Yes, she’s human and has needs, blah, but I personally just don’t see her doing this. All of it feels like such a loser move. Why does there have to be so much toxicity and awful tropes all the fucking time? Can’t we just have that one pairing that is loyal and loves each other? I know this is my hopeless romantic side speaking, but I’m just disappointed in this scene and how the show suddenly portrays Moiraine and the fishwives.
That being said, I do love how diverse the show is in its portrayal of different relationships and I do think that‘s great and beautiful, and I do embrace it! But when it comes to the fishwives? I personally can’t mentally go there. Sorry.
If you made it through my TED Talk, my condolences.
May I know what did you mean about waiting for Diana's fan crack? Sorry out of the loop here?
The Diana fandom, like all Royal-watching, is a spectrum and there are different factions. They’ve been sniping at each other for awhile, so it’s possible that should Harry come back, they’ll get into a big fight that ends up splintering the fandom such that there’s no longer a Diana spectrum, it’s a William or Harry binary choice.
There’s the Diana cult, which are the fans that have beatified Diana and who refuse to accept that she had some messy truths and was in the wrong. They are usually the ones that keep the “he’s just a baby who walked behind the coffin” PR going. They’ll fall in behind Harry if he comes back no matter what and tend to be lumped in with the Harry Stans and Meghan Haters. Most of them don’t like Meghan but they’ll take her if it means Harry is back and if they could spit in Camilla’s face, they would.
There’s the “Diana can do no wrong” fans. They’re more even-keeled, recognize that Diana had her own issues and acknowledge she had her flaws, but generally like her and admire her and support her and have bought most of the PR. They can be intense if you criticize Diana but will generally leave you alone. This is the group that Harry targets when he does his landmine walls and frets about Meghan’s security. They’ll probably fall in behind Harry because Diana would’ve supported him. They can take it or leave it when it comes to Meghan.
There’s the “Diana was society’s ultimate victim” fans, who mostly focus on how tragic her life was. This is the group that a lot of the younger royal-watchers are falling into, the ones from the last couple do years that have fell in from all the Diana content in pop culture and on social media. They don’t really see or understand the whole picture of Diana (or the whole history), they just see her through the victim lens exclusively. This is who Harry targets when he frets about Meghan’s safety in context of Diana’s life and who Meghan targets with her “I’m just like her” narrative. They’ll be behind Harry as long as Harry keeps up his victim narrative too, but they have strong potential to shift and be behind Meghan instead if there’s a divorce. These are the fans also most likely to say that Diana would’ve loved Meghan and hated Kate.
(Also, completely random aside, every time I type “divorce” in context with the BRF, my inner voice spells it out the way the newscasters did when they announced Charles and Diana were divorcing. I’ll try to track the video down later and link it if you don’t know what I mean.)
There’s the Monarchist Diana fans, who are the fans that focus almost exclusively on Diana’s opinions of the royal family, which they boil down to “Queen Elizabeth good, King Charles bad, King William perfect” - in other words, these fans believe in Diana’s trust of the institution, her hope to see it thrive, and her desire of seeing William wear the crown more than anything else Diana saw, wore, did. These fans will stand behind William no matter what - they abhor the way Harry has been coming after William and there’s probably a very good chance that Harry has lost these fans for good with his attacks. Harry does sometimes try to target these fans - “making sure there’s good people around my grandmother/father”-type comments appeal to this group.
There’s what I call the Wombat William Diana fans, who focus on William being Diana’s favorite and only loyal confidant. They usually have blind admiration for William and his family. They’re often the ones (in my opinion) who are photoshopping or AI’ing Diana into William’s family photos. They can be a little creepy. These fans will fall in behind William no matter what and sometimes tend to get lumped in as Wales Wailers but they’re very take it or leave it when it comes to Kate. Harry’s completely lost most of these fans, but some of them do like the “they walked behind Diana’s coffin” narrative so they’ll probably consider forgiving Harry as long as William doesn’t say anything about how hurt he is/was. Once William opens his mouth, though, it’s game over.
There’s the group I call the “well actually” fans, who I feel are true fans of Diana. They see she was a complicated and messy person and know it doesn’t take away from the good things Diana did and what she meant to others. Like, they can empathize with her for how hurt she was over Charles’s affair while at the same time acknowledging that Diana also participated in the breakdown of the marriage with her own affairs. They don’t buy the PR easily, but they will participate in the nostalgia.
I have the hardest time deciding where they’ll go in the William v Harry fallout. They want the brothers to reconcile because it’s what Diana would have wanted, but they understand it isn’t an easy task and it will take a very long time, time that William has and time that Harry does not. I feel like they’d follow William’s lead because they see Harry digging himself into deeper and deeper holes, but quite a lot are sympathetic to Harry and would probably want to see how he handles himself.
(And what’s interesting to me about this group of fans is that they’re exclusively the ones who agree that Diana would’ve hated both Meghan and Kate and she’d be a horrible MIL because Diana would want to remain #1 for both William and Harry and she’d perceive the girlfriends/wives as competition and replacements.)
And then you have everyone else, who falls in the middle or in between all these different “sides” with varying intensity and passion.
And of course, a fandom isn’t a fandom without its haters and Diana has those too but that’s not the point of this post. All I’ll say about the haters is that there are three main “takes”: those who see Diana through Charles’s lens, those who villainize Diana, and those who just don’t like her, and everyone else who falls in between or just doesn’t care that much.
Most of the Diana fans I run into on this side of royal-watching are the “Diana did no wrong” and “well actually” fans. I’ve had a few unfortunate run-ins with the Diana cult and the “ultimate social victim” fans and they are *wild*. I don’t post a whole lot on Diana because of them. I haven’t seen any “Wombat William” fans on tumblr - I usually run into them on other socials but I don’t doubt they’re around here either. There are a few Monarchist Diana fans around here though. They’ll poke their head out from time to time.
Characters that are cute are obviously socially inept.
Luke Skywalker he is clearly just a sweet cinnamon roll.
What farm kid has not had to fight, do things by themselves, be independent as early as possible. Then he hangs out with rebel fighter. In the EU he takes on the Imperial Empires hand-picked assassins. Being insecure about his force powers, his skills in high society, skills as a teacher sure all of these things but he can actually fight and curse and swear. And he's definitely flirted with his crush before.
Mara Jade doesn't understand social cues so she doesn't know that Luke is flirting with her.
While true in Universe it's of one of the things that really bothers me about her character. She is supposed to be this badass super spy and if she can't read the situation around her she's dead. The emperor will just replace her. So she had to be good at her job. Even if she doesn't understand the message he's sending she should understand that he's trying to send a very personal message. And being a smart as she's supposed to be she should have a short list of things that he could possibly be sending as that message.
Also I tried to find gif of her and failed, sad face
I’m a bit concerned about OFMD Season 2, only because I know—I know—there will be a vocal minority of “fans” who are upset that Stede and Ed won’t be in fluffy domestic bliss by the end of the first episode, turn on the show, and start harassing the writers, cast, and crew. They don’t understand—or don’t care—how serialized television works, the importance of conflict and character arcs to a plot, and that everything won’t be resolved ten minutes into the season. It’s frustrating, and not fair to the creators, writers, and everyone else involved in the show.
Yes, I’m basing this on the utterly ridiculous behavior of those who dislike the main antagonist to the point that they’re attempting to get his actor fired and doxxing/harassing people who do enjoy his character. When you are so myopic and entitled and selfish that you’d ruin someone’s career because you don’t like the bad guy he plays, you’re incapable of thinking critically about the media you consume and probably shouldn’t be watching the show until you learn how to process it. Period.
I dislike Izzy’s behavior, but that’s the point of him. I enjoy and appreciate his purpose in the show because his animosity and ulterior motives help drive the plot and provide conflict for the Good Guys to overcome, which makes for good storytelling.
People are basing their enjoyment of the show on whether it measures up to fluffy fanfic and Booktok trends with Canva covers. This is also driven by Netflix’s binge-watching model, where entire seasons are released at once and there’s no waiting to find out what happens. I grew up with weekly episodes and cliffhangers; I can’t imagine how fans nowadays would handle “Who shot JR?” or most of The X-Files.
There’s this all-or-nothing attitude in modern fandom that if the show doesn’t immediately meet their highly specific requirements, they’ll take it out on the fandom and the show itself. This is made even worse because these types of fans exist in an echo chamber that doesn’t allow for any other opinions besides their own.
The fandom’s already struggling, and I don’t want Season 2 to be its death knell.
Anyway, tl;dr—impatient fans with tunnel vision will inevitably be disappointed when everything isn’t completely perfect ten minutes into the second season, and all hell will break loose.
It's so funny how tumblr works that like. Everyone has a distorted idea of what "everyone" says or what "general opinion" is. And it's just not a thing that's possible to measure here. Which is great! I disagree with the idea that we should all have to put things we dislike on our dashes for "content diversity" or w/e. But that does mean everyone has to remember that our little tumblr bubble is a tiny slice of the even tinier piece of all engagement with the thing we like across everything.
