#torniotalk

[tornioduva]

Dungeon meshi and body proportions

Ok, i'm feeling the rush i got from binging the manga this last week is starting to fade away, i'll be back to being a normal person soon i think. at least, that is before i find a new something for me to dive into uhuh.

Before that happens, i want to praise Ryoko Kui for one last think. The design of the characters!

For years i've expressed (maybe not so much online) my hate towards the "anime style", this homogenization of traits and beauty standards to an artificial degree, and the mass spread and consumption of it. yes, trends exist for a reason, this is not the first nor the last art current to be popular and i'm not the first detractor of one in history. I do think there is something uniquely harmful in this one though, and that is why i'm able to find the energy to be such a pretentious dipshit about it. That is a discussion for another day though.

All this to say that going through Dungeon Meshi and seiing these characters, plus (and in a way because of it) all the additional sketches of the daydream hour bonus sections, was such a breath of fresh air! (at least for what concerns japanese exported stories)

All i could say and praise in regard to character designs in general is perfectly expressed in this video, which i recommend you to watch if you want to hear my opinions (and the video author's too, uhuh):

I want to leave you though with at least one specific praise for me: Falin.

i've seen countless time people (online) just not understanding how people's body work, how much differences there can be and how proportions do distribute and affect the body. in anime I see a lot of short and tall people (mostly women girls) that share the same proportions despite their actual height, and that often leads to think "yeah, she is short" and than she's tall when around someone, or (most often) the contrary. same lenght of limbs, same head to body proportions, and little details like this.

Falin you can tell at a glance she is a tall woman before she's around anyone, even when she is standing near her brother who is taller than her.

Kui did her homework in studying bodies and variations, and, whether consciously or not, she differentiated her in body in subtle but fundamental ways: her head being slightly smaller than her body, the neck being fairly long, and her having somewhat broader shoulders.

I accept that there might be an element of suggestion at play here, considering also how she is dressed most of the time, but I really do think there is a direct effort at differentiation here.

This is the first time in a long time (in a series like this at least) where i've seen a woman carrying herself around others and the space around here kind of like a person like me, tall, would; at first i didn't think much of it, but then i saw her near other characters and....i don't know, i felt a warm, joyful feeling, seeing that i was right in recognizing that trait and being right.

I was especially happy in seeing her next to marcille. not so much for the height difference, but for how different they were in proportions and mannerism. A lesser manga i fear would have used marcille's body type and way of moving and interacting as the default for most other girls, but here she was uniquely herself!

Now, i could've used more extreme exemples to show how this author rocks in body types representations (while aknowledging there could've been even more diversification still), given there are far larger, taller and stranger women, but to me, nailing the little, most subtle details in such a chirurgical manner shows a greater level of mastery and comprehension. As such, Falin left me with a deeper fascination than most other characters.

Sorry for this wall of text, but i needed to let my happy thoughts go, so that i could be free again uhuh.

Feel free to tell me that i'm wrong, or that i should just accept anime media as is. i'm just really happy Dungeon meshi exists as is and i want Ryoko Kui to keep refining her craft, and drawing beautiful women and dwarves.

Plus, this was very much a stream of consciousness, i didn't go into technical details about what i think conveyed what i described, but if someone is interested, or does not get what i'm saying (while expressing it in a curious and gentle way, i won't respond to spiteful assholes), i'll be happy to make a follow up post in which i try to dissect this! For example, i didn't reread the whole manga to find examples of her, i just went to the wiki uhuh. in a follow up post maybe i'll try to go through chapters and pick more specific examples of her.

Anyway, have a good day!

[tornioduva]

Horikoshi, why

coming late to the parade as always. this is pure vent, i'm not even gonna reread this.

i sometimes hate myself for the surge of motivations that capture my mind and take it hostage until i exhaust them. this time was MHA; i saw the clips of the epilogue, and the surge of togachako ship content and i HAD to know the context. i stopped years ago at the third/fourth season, so i HAD to rewatch everything. in two weeks.

ok, now i'm free again, decompressing phase.

not gonna talk about the series as whole, though i could. I just want to express my frustration about Uraraka and Toga's characterization.

they are beautiful. that last episode with them hit me like a truck, and i now have aquired a new "cry on command" button if i need it. Problem is, that episode is built on the flimsiest foundation i've ever seen.

the times these two interacted are but a footnote to the entire story, and they are scattered far throughout the 8 SEASON + OVAS + MOVIES!!! That single episode managed to gaslight me and millions of others of a preexisting deep bond and rivalry between the two, that is completely believable and supremely compelling on paper, but then you go search for it back in the series and rediscover that up until that episode it had barely started/materialized as one.

i am overall satisfied with this series, i think it is a good hero story with super compelling characters, but this one thing will sting me forever. Uraraka deserved to be a protagonist alongside bakugo, deku and shoto. Fucking obliterate mineta from the face of the earth and give all of his screentime to her, and also i could've used less epic moments given to classmates that i barely care about if it could've meant more ochako and her story.

Not only the story, but also her hero moveset. I very much think she should've been more of a brawler, with her training for close combat fight (and maybe becoming a little more buff, why not), mostly because it would've led to a lot of really cool coreography; remove gravity and then hit and make opponent fly through the air. yeah, yeah, she is way more focused on defense, redirection and protection, but this could've served that purpose too. of course she would'nt rush into battles like deku or bakugo, but would've been interesting to see her as a brawler protector, fending off attackers from innocent bystanders. we get close to that in the first seasons, with her at the tournament and later training with gunhead, but then...it stops there. supremely disappointing.

Plus the fact that we get so little focus on her costumes and gadgets, while she benefits from them much more then deku, at least in a more interesting way. Like, yeah, of course support item are important for deku too, but it's always "i can't use my powers without exploding, but with this item i can", it's always just a crutch or a dampener. uraraka instead would need something a little more creative, like we see with her suddenly having a grappling hook and air boosts at some point.

in regard to her story and romance with Toga, i honestly think that the whole provisional license exam could've been scrapped in favour of a season dedicated to UA class schoolwork and sheenanigans, in which the league would've sent toga in UA in disguise; now, THAT would have created a lot of moments for her to meet and bond with both Izuku and Uraraka. Beacuse i'm sorry, no matter how much i love that episode, and no matter how much i can believe of Uraraka's deep and intense empathy, her longing to toga, talking about how she misinterpreted the signals that toga's "kept sending her" (when? only that one time when they were in the house alone maybe) and that she has always wanted to tell her about how special her smile was...all of that cannot develop out of the handful of encounters they had in the series. it just cannot.

Overall, despite me liking this series, now i can only imagine one in which my poor girl got some development, especially when looking at the whole todoroki family arc (which i loved, mind you. but if you managed to craft all of that while going forward with the main story, you could've spared some development for Uraraka too).

dunno if fixit fics will do the trick, i am very difficult to please with this things, i'll probably just seethe in my frustration, consuming every piece of togachako fanart like a rabid animal until i move forward.

Horikoshi, why.

[tornioduva]

...Another Silksong addendum (sorry)

...Ok, no, i have another thing that came to mind after watching a streamer i follow reaching the central part of the citadel, after the mechanical duo fight.

There you have the three musical statues talk to what they assumed would be a pilgrim, asking them to go and hear the three songs of the greats and come back to ascend.

ok, so...

...What is the POINT of the Pilgrimage actually???

Like, i can fully buy that the bugs believe the citadel to be holy and that they would ascend by arriving there, becoming more than bug. But in here we see a structured, planned arrival point of pilgrims; they made an automated system to direct pilgrims to the cradle.

For what???

like, were they sacrificial offers to GMS? was this a cruel act of filtration even back then, so to find truly devout (and strong) bugs so to have them join the higher ranks? were they being led only to be abducted? If i missed some enviromental, or written, clues to the actual point of this system and the cradle, please, illuminate me. as it stands...this kind falls into myazaki-esque type of narration, in a bad way for my taste, in the sense that it's left up to interpretation but with too much wiggle room for speculation and not enough solid ground to keep it real.

[tornioduva]

Silksong rant addendum

Another small think i thought about again (consider this an addition to the previous rant post): the silk. As i have understood it, GMS is the primal source of silk, and so bugs werent able to produce silk, she gifts her ability to them, the weavers. at least, if we consider the upper part of the journal an omniscient narrator. If this is the case, i don´t like this as well.

having the ability to produce silk be tied exclusively to one creature in my mind really narrows down your world by one property many bugs should have. sure, it is special even in our world, but its still incredibly varied and not of exclusive possesion of arachnids. not only that, but spiders here only have it because it was gifted, so it´s another defining characteristics being cut away from them, to add to my previous critique.

...At this point what even are arachnids in this world? they are basically defined only by hunting style and goblin noises.

I personally choose to interpret the journal as two entries from hornet, one more personal that the other, and so this is her understanding of silk and its origin; this way i am able to imagine are types of arachnids roaming in the world, and caterpillars making their own silk. Not only that, but i also prefere to believe GMS did NOT gift the ability to them, merely enhanced it; they naturally are able to produce silk, but only with GMS´s help they were able to weave their sould into it.

I know this is entirely an headcanon, given that the game seems pretty explicit about it all, but...

...listen, there is still enough wiggle room for me to me to be delusional about it, oook???

[tornioduva]

3,5 critiques about Silksong

!!!!SPOILERS BEWARE!!!!! ....So, Silksong. i need to say some stuff. First of all: shocker, i loved it. an amazing experience that i will cherish for a long time, more than HK i think (it may be the post game excitement talking, but i really feel i liked it way more than HK). Hornet, the story, the world, the gameplay, THE MUSIC. everything flows together so beautifully.

...but

as most things, i think there are some critical aspects that i think needed some more thought, that left me either confused or disappointed. 3,5 to be exact, as the title suggests. And no, it’s not going to be about the runbacks, or the double damage. If you’ve had trouble with that, go listen to Hornet’s voicelines in Hollow Knight, i think she might have something to say to you personally. So, to vent them in order, here's all of what i have to say in image form because my ramblings are too long for tumblr's post size as it turns out.

[tornioduva]

A NEW GERUDO DISCOURSE HAS HIT THE SECOND TOWER!!!

....Well, hello there. my time to shine i guess. Nobody is gonna read this, i do not matter in this discussion, especially considering that the discussion is happening mainly on youtube and twitter. BUT. for those that might.

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Skittybitty has released a new video discussing the greudo and orientalism, which i highly recommend. And then the opinionated nation attacked.

Now is a matter of censorship, politics in my fantasy videogame, "they're not real bro", and "if you're thinking about it this hard, you're the real racist/sexist/pervert". all that fun stuff.

Now, my intention is not really to touch all of that. i want to go to the root of another problem, one that is really at the foundation (in my opinion) of why some people find the Gerudo so problematic, while others think of them like any other fantasy race/species with no strings attached.

....Are the Gerudo hylians (humans) or are they a different species??? (from now own i'l say humans to indicate all the humanoid creatures that i think belong to the same species, like hylians and sheika).

That for me is the fundamental question that everyone that wants to engage in this discourse should answer first.

Skitty at some point in the video makes her stance clear, though with a tone that implies "obviously they're humans", a security that i personally do not share. To me it's not obvious, it's choice of interpretation that one makes based upon a loose set of lore details even nintendo is unsure what to do with it (i think. i do not remember any esplicit confirmation in the games, but i might be wrong). Why is not obvious? mainly due to:

how they are portrayed in botw/totk,

for the all-women quirk

because sheika exist.

Them being only women is the principal issue: it's clear that no thought was given to it and that it was adapted and reinterpretated later on, but with an hollow fundation. You can make the case of the gerudo being just a different ethinicity of humans as long as you don't factor in how they reproduce, at which point nothing makes sense anymore. You can reason about it with the faint implication of them being a cursed tribe, but they still act more as a separate group of people that thrives on its own, plus it's not how they are presented later on. If they are another species, this is their distinctive trait and you can work around it, if they are humans, this just makes no sense (as it is presented. i'm not saying that an all-women culture cannot exists, just that it's NOT presented as culture/tradition, but as a natural trait).

In botw/totk they are clearly different from humans in how they are portrayed. They always tower over other humans, they are always built differently, and their faces are always angular in a way that no human has. You could make the case that they might just be different looking humans; even in real life there are group of people much taller than anyone else, with uncommon (for some) facial features and colors. Problem is, there is a somewhat wide variety of humans in the games, with colored skintones and varied facial features, but they still are all clearly differentiated from gerudo, so this is an intentional choice, separating the two.

Then the sheika: by the way they are presented, they are functionally humans; they all look the same as hylians and their nature is seemingly the same. Only thing that changes is hair and eye color. With no other info on them, and judging by how the game proposes them to us, they are humans. Gerudo and sheika on paper should have a similar presentation in the world, but it's not the case, because one group is seen as an ethinicity, while the other is seen as a species.

That is why i think it's more of a choice of intepretation. Gerudo should be humans, it would only make sense, but it gets awkward and confusing the more you try to define them as that.

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Now, why do i think this matters more than talking about tropes and stereotypes first; after all an offensive caricature can be offensive regardless of its nature. Mostly to build a good fundation for talking about solutions, to properly discuss how to change them and to better explain it to those that do not get it.

People that view them as a different species won't view them as humans, they only see the cool design and the distinguishing traits. Hylians = generic humans (ears don't count, they are human enough). Sheika = generic humans with cool aesthetic. Gerudo = fantasy race.

So their line of reasoning would probably be more like: "of course it doesen't represent real people. it's like dwarves. do you see celitc and scottish people being offended by dwarves? Then why should middle-eastern people be offended by them". (to be clear, i do not agree with this, but i think this is the wall against which we are throwing ourselves in discussing this).

All this while those who see them as humans and not a different species immediately feel the ick at seeing a group of colored people be reduced to a monolitic culture in the "land of the unfamiliar". The problem here is that they want to immediatly fix them by portraying them as an accurate human ethnicity without changing the fundamental natural traits that make them not humans.

And thus the clash of heads ensues.

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My personal recommendation, by the authority of wanting to make a full redesign project of the gerudo and twili people while never actually working on that because i'm unfocused as hell (jokes aside, i have no degree nor studies in this matter, this is all a long articulated gut feeling), is to choose what you want them to be before proposing a redesign.

If you want them to be humans, get rid of their unhuman traits, and focus more on culture rather than physical difference.

If you want them to be a fully separate species, then make them more unhuman, with a fully different kind of culture that represent their unique traits somehow.

My personal preference goes more towards different species, simpli because i like the different natural traits, but heavily dislike how they are explained and presented.

In my own design project, what i'd like to do is to make them much more different from hylians and sheika, with many more settlements on the mountains and on the coast, all with different aesthetics and characteristics; for the all-women thing, i was thinking about making them a particular kind of intersex people, where they all look and present like women, but have an actual variety of sexes. Then the uniqueness of someone like Ganondorf would be being the only one with a full beard and no tits uhuh (aesthetically. i also dislike the idea of "the dickborne shall rule us aaaall!", so in my setting it would be more of a conquest of power among their ranks).

[tornioduva]

Just finished slay the princess. Amazing game, masterpiece, made me want to pick renpy again to make my own text adventure.

Then I did the first thing I always do after finishing something that I loved, the fan works. Now, most of the fanarts I've seen are beautiful, creative and inspiring. But, since I'm the same guy that obsessed over elves ear rotation and falin's height, I have to say something:

It seems that all of you seem to default the long quiet as an enormous, towering creature compared to the princess, when im my view, almost every canon iteration of two, especially in the pristine cut trailer, you can clearly see the them being the same height and roughly the same size.

To be clear, not saying that is wrong, it's fanwork, you can do what you want.

Just...it made me think.

[tornioduva]

Nitpicky rant about Dungeon meshi e Frieren elves

lately i've been reading Dungeon meshi e Frieren: Beyond Journey's End, and i've noticed a recurring detail, that will now bother me till the end of my existance:

Elf ears. Ears in general to be honest, but in elves is particularly visible.

They all share the mickey mouse ears syndrome, where they can only be seen by profile, only facing their insides, no matter the head's rotation aside from when you're behind them.

It's like these authors can't decide whether the ears are protruding or attached to the sides of the head. it's driving me crazy, because it keeps shifting the design i form in my head of the characters.

Like, i'm no expert in anatomy, let alone ears (they are the bane of my existance when drawing them) but i'm pretty sure Frieren ears should look something like this when you look at her by profile:

As i said, i'm no expert, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, i'll accept the L.

Now, i've seen that, at least in Dungeon meshi, they are able to freely move their ears, so the quick explanation could be "ears too hard to draw in that view, elves just move them and sometimes protrude, sometimes they do not" and i can kind of live with that, but it's too consistent as a thing to believe uhuh.

Anyway, this does not influence my experience with these stories, my opinions on them lie elsewhere; just an odd detail i noticed (that carried in their animated adaptations strangely enough) that now you too can't unsee! you're welcome.