#tpp meta

[cult-of-the-eye]

OH DEAR GOD RAMSES AND JUNO ARE FOILS OF EACH OTHER FUCK ME MAN RAMSES DEDICATED HIS ENTIRE LIFE TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR THE WRONG THAT HE HAD DONE AND SO DID JUNO BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM IS THAT JUNO REALISED THAT THE SENTIMENT WAS FLAWED BEFORE HE DIED FOR A CAUSE THAT WAS ALWAYS DOOMED

[liaroflesbos]

listened to tpp s2 Again and I can’t get ben’s line from the monster’s reflection out of my head, what he says when Juno finally figures out why Ben stayed with Sarah: “It wasn’t a good choice. It wasn’t a noble choice. But it was my choice. And I think it’s about time you start letting me take responsibility for my own choices, okay?”

because like, of course this means a lot in context of the Theia Soul, right? That Juno wishes beyond anything that Ben hadn’t stayed with Sarah, hadn’t kept himself in the firing line. Ramses/the Theia Soul would argue that Ben didn’t deserve to die for his choice to have hope that Sarah Steel would get better with him around, or whatever it was.

But deserving isn’t the point. Respect is the point. Ben made his choice, for good or ill, and he deserves the dignity of having that choice acknowledged. Even if it was the wrong choice, you can’t take that away from him.

[punksrespectpronouns]

SO I JUST RELISTENED TO TRAIN FROM NOWHERE AND I HAVE THOUGHTS

juno was so suspicious of Nureyev the whole game. but with the new insights into Nureyev’s backstory in the stone unturned and his history with Rangian street poker…

like Juno was so sure Nureyev was betting his life. and takes his name for granted and just is so skeptical the whole time. I can’t believe he didn’t see the parallel’s between him and Nureyev with Slip and Nureyev, they just switched roles

like Slip played that game and protected him and Nureyev was his good luck charm. and he lied in a game where the punishment for lying is very clear

but Nureyev couldn’t even do that because Juno was the collateral. they still didn’t know his name but they knew Juno’s. so Nureyev was in a position he either had to tell them his name or they would kill Juno

and like he said in that episode, Nureyev doesn’t have as good an understanding of the game as Slip. he was just buying time betting everything that Juno would be able to figure it out, putting all his trust in him

take this excerpt from the stone unturned (part two)

[Nureyev] The level of trust I placed in him was idiotic. But you must remember that only a few weeks before I'd given up on survival altogether, and besides... you and I both know that there are cases in which I'm tempted to give far more of myself than is sensible to a relative stranger. It is always incredibly stupid of me, but for all the pains it's caused, it's also brought my greatest joys. It's difficult to kick a gambling habit when it's worked so well in your favor.

I just think it’s romantic and seeing Nureyev’s experience with Rangian street poker and the sheer amount of trust he put in Juno in train from nowhere has me foaming at the mouth. please tell me i’m not the only one

[dykeyote]

cecil kanagawa as a sympathetic antagonist

ok u kno what . i should not suggest a cecil arc and not explain how i would write it if i were making a cecil arc . so i will do that now . in GREAT detail

kanagawa productions is being bought out by northstar which is mentioned in the show . i think itd be VERY interesting if min managed to gaslight girlboss gmurder her way to the top of that and take control of the company, putting her in an even more powerful position than before

cecil's the star of course, he's always been the moneymaker of the family, and min takes Advantage of that - with the rest of his family out of commission, cecil has to work three times as hard to make up for it, and min makes Sure he knows this

that leaves him frazzled and stressed and tired all the time, which makes him far more easily manipulated, whereas prior to murderous mask he was fairly oblivious to how codependent their relationship was but would still find ways around it like swapping with cass, he pretty much just does whatever she says

min is perfectly poised to expand and gain power over all of mars and even more . theres only one problem . rex glass and juno steel are still Out there and when shes gotten this far she's not going to let a possible problem go

so she track them down . she finds out nureyev's full name and she Eventually gets a Vague idea of where juno is

but min doesnt do the dirty work . shes not going to hunt someone down Herself, thats not her style . so Cecil does

he definitely doesnt know the full plan id think ,,,, one of his prime character traits throughout murderous mask Is his obliviousness (not realizing juno doesnt wanna go on his show, not realizing junos accusing him of murder for a VERY long time, not even knowing His Dad Died) and i think that would carry through to an arc with him, min tells him that she wants him to get them on a show again for the ratings or smt and he dorsnt quedtion it

so its basically this thing of cecil trying to EXTRAHHHHVAGANTLY kill our protags on live tv . its a very fun antag that makes the most of the fact that hes a Glamorous Gameshow Host and he poses a genuine threat and does some fucked up things, maybe he kidnaps one of junos friends and/or a member of the carte blanche as ransom. hes a PROPER antag

but at points that mask sort of drops ,, we see moments where cecil is genuinely scared, where that complete disregard for his own life is portrayed more darkly, and it becomes increasingly clear everything hes doing is for mins sake and not his own

like maybe at the beginning juno and everyone thinks cecil was lying about juno being his best friend and he actually Does hold a grudge ?? playing into junos paranoia maybe ?? but we see that he was Not lying and juno really Is his best friend in his eyes and this is a product of manipulation

i think he could also be a kinda cool parallel for nureyev ?? smt about identity issues . nureyev has identity problems because nobody knows anything about him and cecil has identity issues because everyone does and his entire life is a movie and his entire personality is a character . smt like that . cecil tells nureyev that he pities him for how unknown he is for how nobody even knows his NAME thats pathetic everyone knows who the great cecil kanagawa is and the underlying vibe is that hes jealous of reyevs anonymity 

and DEFINITELY do more with his relationship with juno . WAY more . does juno have any warm feelings for him or is it genuinely all frustration and annoyance !!! for either of these, does cecil realize this !!!! expand on the fact that cecil sees him as his best friend . expand on their history together . does cecil have a thing for juno and why is the answer yes? idk where it would go but theres a lot of interesting drama there

and REALLY build up on his feelings on his sister. does he miss her? does he feel betrayed that she killed their dad? do they still talk on comms? do they not and how do they feel about that? i definitely think they should bring cass back too u cant do a cecil arc without a cass arc but im focusin on this mostly

speaking of parallels . consider: cecil is a parallel for both juno and benten at once. this is a post for another day this is already too long but its a concept i have and i think they should do something with

i dont Quite know how it would end ,,,, theres a lot of diff ways it could go . im gonna go with the redemption arc ending and the tragic ending bc theyr the biggest ones that come to mind . both of them have min die because its deserved

REDEMPTION ARC . as we learn more about cecil throughout juno learns more too, realizing that this isnt what cecil Wants its what he Has To Have . cass kills min and its DESERVED and cecil is shattered he’s beyond betrayed i dont think he knows that cass was set up yet here ,,,, so hes incredibly incredibly angry and sad and hurt and he feels like cass is ruining his life and this is his Low point. but juno brings cecil to the carte blanche and cecil slowly heals, he unlearns all the fucked up shit being a kanagawa taught him and his relationship with cass slowly begins to heal . i think itd be cute if they made him and junos relationship more friendly too (: do smt with the fact that junos Very clearly cecils favorite and make him learn how to be someones friend normally . maybe have a jealousy thing with him and reyev bc cecils into juno . MAKE HIM FRIENDS WITH RITA i feel strongly about this they should be tech besties who goss about juno . just fun redemptiony stuff (:

or .... alternatively

TRAGIC MORALLY GREY ENDING . theres a lot of ways this could go but essentially cecil dies before he GETS that redemption . he goes out killing min because he found out that shes the one who killed his dad and all the comfort she’d provided him in his grief was fake . his last move is to kill min and he never Quite makes amends with juno and we have an arc where juno has to think about the fact that cecil tried to kill him hundreds of times over but he genuinely did really care about him and juno will never be able to see him again. how does he feel about that

idrk which one i prefer i think the redemption has more potential but the morally grey one is more realistic i think . but either way

in conclusion: BRING THE KANAGAWAS BACK . NOW

[julesdap]

things that Hit Different when you look at them again after listening to the what lies beyond 3 finale

murderous mask. after nureyev deceives juno, juno can't stand talking to sasha when she tries to call. he can’t trust anyone, in that moment. but in what lies beyond 2 & 3, after a year of trust, of peter nureyev, juno chooses to believe in him despite all evidence to the contrary—and to some extent, he chooses to believe in sasha wire, too, defending her from his family several times... right up until sasha decides to break that belief herself.

promised land 3. sarah steel: “if you want to live out there... you need someone to live for. you need someone else, so that when you’re not tough enough, they can be; so that right when you want to give up, you remember you can’t, because you’ve got someone better than you to worry about” and juno: “i can’t take the gamble. if I’m the only one who escaped... i have a responsibility, now. and i can’t throw that away.” before, sarah’s quote mirrors juno because like sarah, juno ended up throwing away something he loved because he was scared of losing it (leaving nureyev in final resting place). now, juno decides to do what sarah steel couldn’t do: saving himself to save his family.

monster’s reflection: juno feels about sasha wire in wlb 2 & 3 the way ben felt about sarah steel. against all his family’s advice, despite all the shitty things sasha is doing—capturing him, hurting his family—juno tries to act in good faith towards her. he spares her life, tries to take her with him, protects himself and his family but also trusts that she won’t hurt him. he could only ever see the person sasha wire was, and could be. never the monster.

tools of rust: rita calls dark matters’ system “like someone’s moving in.” it’s also said that m’tendere had “a good thing going,” with dark matters, before their agent was abruptly replaced and dark matters started trying to kill them. i think it’s pretty clear that this is when sasha got promoted (or, more likely, promoted herself by assassinating burgess). considering sasha’s top priority seems to be getting rid of things that would force humanity to reevaluate their entire structure of living if given public access (the curemother prime), no wonder m’tendere, who was working on the bottomless battery, was her first target.

what lies beyond 1. the more i think about it, the likelier it seems that nureyev was planning to tell juno everything after the wedding. he had packed all his things, he had stolen the items and was planning to give them to his creditors—but he wasn’t going to just leave. i mean. he gave juno the journal and then basically said, okay. after you finish this, come to me and we’ll talk. and the entire day he was on edge, nervous, paranoid about hearing his name... not just because he was getting ready to leave. because that night he was going to explain everything, and possibly face juno’s hurt for it. he never got to do that, though. dark matters caught up with them too early.

[hellishfig]

second citadel theory time

so the First Citadel, right? got destroyed 1000, maybe 2000 years ago? basically all of recorded history got wrecked along with it, so nobody knows what happened before it

the humans have their three saints, Aaron the Resolute, Damien the Tranquil, and Ferdinand the Brave. they are said to have destroyed the monstrous horde that attacked the First Citadel with divine power

now, i’m not so sure about divinity, but i am thinking about the universe, the Terminus, and the Battle at World’s End

according to what we’ve seen, the universe has its whims, and it is changeable. magic only works sometimes. why is that? it’s because the universe runs on emotion, and the emotional resonator tapped into that in The Lover’s of the Fallen Tower. the emotions there— specifically the love and loss— left a scar on the shores of the Terminus

the tower/shell at the edge of the Terminus is interesting for more reasons than just that scar, although the scar provides a lot of context for those other reasons. one example is Talfryn’s comment that it appeared as if the tower/shell was used extensively (by monsters at least) a thousand years ago, and then it was empty for a while, and then monsters moved in. another oddity is the tapestries. they depict monsters and humans together, living together, building together. the same thing seen in the memories. these memories focus on pix and david. why them? is their love story so compelling, that the universe keeps replaying it over and over again?i don’t think that’s it.

back to the saints for a second, and divinity or lack thereof. humans and monsters are both powerful in different ways, and the humans claimed the saints… but what if their divine power was simply magic from the universe? what if Aaron, Damien, and Ferdinand were half monster, like Olala? what if Pix and David were their parents, and the universe focused on them bc the love of their children was so strong, it immortalized their last moments?

and the terminal tower bridge was destroyed by forces from beyond the falls. is that what the saints fought? this question has yet to be answered, hopefully the upcoming season will be illuminating.

on to The Battle at World’s End. rereading the poem, it seems as though the two giants may represent monsters and humans. they fight at the edge of the world, locked in an eternal battle that neither of them remember beginning. it’s fitting that the setting is the Terminus, on the edge of the known world, and they are battling for an unknown reason.

tldr; humans and monsters are not as different as they would like to think. they are all children of the universe in the end, and the characters’ misconception that they can never live peacefully was birthed by the fall of the First Citadel, aka Fort Terminus.

[measuringspoon2]

something that the episode, the commentary, and even the script descriptions of sasha and juno touched on that i loved about this episode was that oftentimes, it’s pretty easy to say that the way somebody (usually, a villain) acts is completely and wholly because of their upbringing or backstory. even if it’s said in a “reason, not an excuse”, way, a lot of the time we fall into the habit of thinking that x + y + z = inevitable evil person, that if a hundred children were in the same situation the same thing would happen each time. in short, that they never had the autonomy to deviate from their fated descent into evil. 

but juno and sasha had the same upbringing. both lived in the same bad neighborhood, both had the same education, both had the same friends (each other, and mick). both had a sibling die and felt it was their fault. both responded to watching corrupt police ruin lives and livelihoods, often in regards to them directly, and both responded by becoming police themselves.

this episode proved that every individual has autonomy. has, in frankl fashion, the ability to chose how to respond what is done to them. juno chose to leave the police and recognized how totally corrupt they are. sasha became the director of the Worse Cops. while their pasts explain both of their actions, their pasts also prove that their actions are not predetermined. sort of carrying on in monster's reflection themes that you are not destined to become the people who hurt you (and i thought sasha had ridiculously similar dialogue to jack takano, of all people--"some people have to be dragged into their own best interests" sound familiar to anyone else?) in a way that i really loved.

[geisterzeit]

Hey big spoilers for What Lies Beyond part 3 below the cut!

So. Some thoughts about the new episode, and some headcanons, just kind of a ramble!

The Curemother is dead, but Juno lives on. I've seen a couple people write about their disbelief that the Prime is gone for good, and that it just hopped on over right into Juno's blood. And since, you know, Juno has a past of odd alien powers and goop doing a funny little dance inside of him, alongside an alien creature splattering all over his open wound... this really isn't too far-fetched of an idea.

And besides this, I just really love the idea of Juno increasingly becoming less and less human. After the Miasma ordeal, and now the Prime, Juno went through so much struggle to do good all his life and inevitably failing to meet his own idealized idea of what "good" is. After years of pain and hurt, he's only just now beginning to let those wounds heal, and giving us all a very excellent view of the growth any person is capable of, no matter how deep the hole they've dug themselves is. Then, a creature with the ability to heal, becoming part of Juno, whose perception of good has shifted slightly but ultimately still lies within helping people, no matter the amount (whether just 6 people or a city or a whole galaxy)? Juno, now suddenly embodying healing? Growth? Juno with the abilities of the Prime? MAN.

Besides this, I was talking to my boyfriend, who pointed out to me that Juno's namesake is, as Juno himself has said, known for "killing her kids." The Curemother Prime's connection to Juno and its constant attempts to warn and communicate with him throughout its time on the Carte Blanche just make me think about them having that odd connection... (And how the Prime is just a little creature. A little baby, even) And how Juno (arguably) contributed to the reason the Prime was killed. This really doesn't do much more than make me incredibly sad.

Furthermore, Io is one of Jupiter's moons. Jupiter is the husband of the Goddess Juno. Which, that just... oh man. That scares me.

At the end of the day, I am just having immense brainrot about Juno being a harbinger of the Prime. The amount of pain that could come from once again having your agency stripped from you, just like the THEIA but this time the ability to do good and help and heal is entirely within your control? I don't want to put this on Juno again, the duty to do good, to *be* good, and neither does he want to be subjected to that again...

But have you considered how cool it would be for him to slowly get more and more alien. I just want to design a cool Prime!Juno. And I just might go ahead and do that. Prime!Juno my beloved.... But anyway.

TL;DR: Juno Steel inheriting the Curemother Prime's healing abilities would be really cool and I'm just having fun with the finale, which by the way HURT SO MUCH.