#tw; syscourse

[lovestarvedcupid]

Fun fact! Created “systems” are the anti-plurals! I feel like spreading stigmas and being the primary reason systems aren’t believed is pretty anti-plural behavior. I’d also say supporting those who do that, is also pretty anti-plural behavior.

Dear, if you think they are the reason we aren't beleived, you are simply ignoring reality and trying to find someone to blame.

The reason we aren't beleived is because bigots are bigots and will ALWAYS find ways to not except us.

Again i repeat you are regurgitating anti-endo takes darling. I'm going to hold your hand for this one, there is no one to blame but the bigots themselves, and you reenforcing their beleifs by claiming systems that are easier to blame then you aren't real, is not helping.

This goes for every minority, homophobes who are truely homophobic* will continue to be homophobic whether the "weird" multigender bi-lesbian butch-fag is apart of the community or not. Truely anti plural people will be anti plural* whether the created system who system hops and has cringe alters is here or not.

*This does not go for those who simply need educating. That is a different can of worms.

There isn't a big bad in the community. Community members cannot spread stigmas when they are merely existing as themselves.

Anti plurals truely do see us as all the same. We are all one to them. We aren't even "not real" to them. They do not care if we're real. We're just freaks they need to eradicate.

[openly-journaling]

Bobby: 8/11/2022

Last night was absolutely horrible and caused me another split. It started out nice and everything for awhile.

We were playing genshin and ran into a couple. Eventually it got to talking about systems. Now I am not good at explaining things (I told them this and even said I could get them someone who could better explain these things) and I was being bombarded with questions I am not good at giving answers to so this got out of hand quickly.

Before the system talk I explained about how I met the person (who is currently my fiance now) when they was 17. We WERE NOT DATING AT THIS TIME.

A FEW MONTHS AFTERRRRRR she turned 18 our systems ended up dating each other. They decided to put words in my mouth and say I waited for her to turn 18. No??? That's just gross on so many levels like pedophilia with extra steps. I didn't even catch feelings for them until awhile after they turned 18.

Then they went on to attack me over endo systems and not just endo systems but being a system in general. Saying that because we're 23 and already at the amount of headmates we're at that we're absolutely delusional and don't exist and we should be in the mental hospital for this shit.

Then told us the person who diagnosed us should be imprisoned for not having forced us to take meds. We refuse because we DO NOT TRUST MEDICATION due to our own traumas with it and we've found so many ways to cope as we are.

And we're perfectly fine like that. Then they said we're clearly faking or something because something about controlling who fronts. We CANNOT always control who fronts especially in high stress situations.

And even just assuming that endos weren't real (I do believe endos are valid, just an example) or we're all delusional or something, it is NOT right for anyone to tell you what your experiences are like they know you and they know how you're supposed to work, even as a system.

They tried gaslighting us and interrupted us and raised their voice at us and then told us we were clearly being sketchy or something when we got the same way and worked to defend ourselves.

I ended up blocking them both and broke down crying afterwards and it caused me to split. I was already in such a depressive state of mind (note to my last post) and that didn't make it any easier.

I ALREADY question if we aren't delusional or real, I already question so much about things but it just.. hurt. Seriously what do people gain from putting others down and going this fucking far with it? It's hard enough being a system. And the age old "are we in any danger?" Question. Like wtf no??? Yeah some system mates have been quite horrible especially in their lives but that doesn't mean they'd act out HERE in the ways they used to.

When putting things through text it's easier to deal with because nobody is shutting you down or screaming in your face about how they're right and you're wrong. It's all in text but vc was just.. way different.

And yes we prefer to be up front about our system despite the risks like these. Though this is the first time something this bad has even happened to us. And it's making me WANT to be more cautious but there's a reason we're up front.

We're tired of losing old friends or fighting with people who have known us before we were a system that start refusing to believe or understand that we're a system. Yes there's still a time and a place to be up front about it and I will choose the honesty of the situation each time. So it's easier in most places to just bring it up so you KNOW who's going to stick around and support you and who will leave or get weirded out beforehand.

That way I don't get attached to someone who will just hurt and betray me later. I also don't want to be friends with people whom I can't even feel safe to speak openly and honestly with without judgement or fearing I'll do something wrong.

This is just genuinely not right and I'll never understand how people think it is or what they think they're accomplishing in bullying, harrasing and hurting others.

Like I don't even understand why Wrath likes doing it? Granted he ONLY does it WHEN and only when the attacks come to him first.

[lovestarvedcupid]

Regarding your post on created “systems”

“I’ve seen someone saying steak isn’t a fruit. Don’t let them divide it anyone.”

People who claim to be created “systems”, aren’t systems. They’re just attention seekers who leech off our community, and both stigmatize and delegitimize actual systems.

But they are. Once again I see 0 proof in your ask anon. And honestly this ask seems quite pointless as you know this wouldn't change my mind. You can't just state something and expect facts and reality to bend to your will.

Systems are multiple beings within a singular body.

Take a wild guess what a created system is?

Multiple beings within one body.

Being created doesn't change that, they are multiple real living beings in one body.

They are not leeching, they are quite literally just apart of this community. Quit acting like these aren't real living people you're talking about. You can see them, they exist, they are not leeches.

[lovestarvedcupid]

(if anything said here is incorrect do tell me, please provide evidence however as i will not be listening to those who don't! Unless evidence is obvious to research on my own )

Ooo! Ooo! I know something you said incorrect! It’s when you said that created “systems” are part of the community! Created “systems” are 9 times out of 10, not actually systems. And the other time is that they are systems but not created.

This is due in part to the fact that you can’t become a system by choice. This is something that anyone who’s done even a few minutes of research could tell you.

Cute. I said provide proof babe. Not simply throw your opinion at me.

Give me a source that says they aren't possible, I'm genuinely curious, give me a source that says they aren't possible at all?

Not a source that focusses on only traumagenic systems, nor a source that focusses on only other origins.

Give me a source that specifically says they are proven to not be possible.

Infact! Fun idea! Do this in 5 minutes! Make sure it's a scientific paper! Do it.

See this is the issue, you have to do more than 5 minutes of research, 5 minutes of research is not enough, you've clearly not done enough.

I, my friend, have had 5 years of experience in the plural community. I have been anti endo, endo neutral and pro endo, I have done years of research, and not once have I seen a source specifically say that it isn't possible, so I'm genuinely asking, where is your proof? Because if multiple systems say they are created, and no where says it's impossible, seems pretty damn possie they aren't lying.

They are apart of this community. They always will be.

[lovestarvedcupid]

Not being supportive of created “systems” isn’t dividing the community, it’s trying to push our oppressors out of spaces they don’t belong

Darling, created systems do not hold power over you, they are not a majority, they cannot oppress you because of that. That's not how you can use the term oppressors, you can claim their ableist, thats still factually wrong but ANYONE can be ableist, not ANYONE can be an oppressor unless they hold power over you.

They are apart of this community, and unfortunately as i cannot tell who you are, as you're on anon, i can only assume you are apart of a majority within system spaces (a singlet, a traumagenic system*, a endogenic noncreated system*). You are acting as the oppressor by kicking them out.

*not saying either of these hold power outside of system spaces, they do however, hold power within system spaces as they are more commonly accepted than created systems

I really wish i knew how they were oppressing you in the first place dear, they are not sending hate towards you like you are to them, they are not telling you you cannot be a system as you are to them. This is why it would be factually wrong to call them ableist either, they are merely existing, they do not affect you in any way, there fore their existence cannot be ableist.

Thats like claiming able bodied people simply existing is ableist to disabled people.

Or even worse, saying cane users are ableist towards wheelchair users for merely existing.

They are in the exact same boat as us, even if they got here by sailing a different route. They deserve to be in this community, you do not get to seperate us from them , you dont get that choice. You can however seperate yourself as a hateful person from the rest of us and personally, I'd prefer hateful people like you, out. Pro endogenic systems are not going to grovel at your feet as you split the community in half.

Sending my love out to created systems truely <3 stay strong out there

And remember we're stronger in numbers !!!

(if anything said here is incorrect do tell me, please provide evidence however as i will not be listening to those who don't! Unless evidence is obvious to research on my own )

Hoping this is simply trolling. But trolling like this still causes real harm to the community. So i will continue to give serious answers to every hateful message in my inbox.

[lovestarvedcupid]

friendly reminder to everyone that the burden of proof first goes to the initiator and *then* the defendant. also you are on the internet, the largest collection of human knowledge, experiences, and ideas created that is currently functional! use it!

I'm assuming this is directed at me here as I am assuming this is the same anon

*Shows you the MULTIPLE created systems claiming they exist* PROOF ✨

*Shows you myself, as I the one currently typing am a created headmate* PROOF ✨

I am. Again. Pointing at grass and going "hey look guys! Grass exists!" and you're claiming otherwise. Without... Proof of there being otherwise? While we currently stare at grass?

I mean, I'd get it if you had proof! If you could point at the grass and go "hey thats moss actually based on the texture and look of it! See, here in my nature guide is says we're actually standing on a funky chunk of moss due to this this and this reason !!! Botanists have quite literally studied this and proved it cannot be grass" but... You cant do that? All you can do is point at it and go "thats not grass :( it just pretending to be grass, its faker moss making fun of grass!! Its moss and lying!!! Ewwwwww icky moss!!!"

I'd like to add. This started with posts on my dash. This started with anti - created system entering the community I'm in, I reacted to a trend I saw, I do not consider myself the initiator. Do not act like there hasn't been an anti - created systems anon going into peoples inbox's long before i commented on this subject, harrassing them, claiming their anti - plural. Thats like a mass murderer going around killing people, someone commenting "huh i think we should stop this murderer guys" and then acting like the person who commented on such acts initiated the conflict.

[the-mechanical-cosmos]

Syscourse talk below, be warned. Please don't start any actual discourse below, this is just because I needed to get this out. Moots, feel free to ignore.

Not to be too big into syscourse right now but I. Genuinely don't know where to stand. On one hand, the medicalist views are very harmful and cause far too much fakeclaiming, while any that are considered endos are not only bringing a positive light to the entirety of plurality and trying to destigmatize it, but they're also the reason for like. 80% of the Accessability we have (or had) with things like simply plural.

But also when I first started figuring everything out about it, the only people I talked to were not quite on the medicalist view, but were pretty strictly trauma-only (or at least suspected to be on those I wasn't sure about)

We stay out of it because we don't know. Plurality isn't the entire disorder, it's just a symptom. I don't see why it's an issue if that symptom was caused by something other than trauma.

I don't know, I think my personal opinion on leaning more to the pro side is also due to the fact that most of our fictives came from like. Post source death stuff, and I was also starting to gain the view that anything is possible and there's infinite realities and stuff. And I think that sped it up.

Also the brain is just. Weird as a whole. There's so many times that it does things that genuinely just. Can't be explained with the knowledge and scientific stuff we have. There's no scientific proof either way, and honestly the Endo community is just. So much fucking nicer. They've helped us figure out so much more stuff than anyone else and most of them who we've met/interacted with are strictly anti-harrassment too. We have friends who identify as that, and it's clear that there's actually something there. I don't want to disregard their whole fucking identity because science hasn't gone deep enough into this to explain either way and we're all going off stuff from like. Years ago.

I think as long as it's good faith and no one's harassing anyone we should just fucking live and let live but with everything with simply plural, octocon and maybe ampersand shutting down it seems like it's split even more into pro vs anti and. It makes me uncomfortable and scared trying to figure out where the fuck I'm supposed to fall when trying to find something that actually works.

I'm scared this amount of stress might be what causes our first collapse. Which. will just make things worse.

[openly-journaling]

Bobby: August 25th 2022

I should be sleeping right now but I can't quite because I just I have to get this out. It's bothering me so much.

I didn't expect her to understand when I got here and I was right. I am being forced to mask. She says that all 78 of us are just one person with different personalities as in one with depression and one with anxiety and stuff like that and it's just not how it works and the way she was getting worked up about it shut me down and I was so tired to say anything anyway too tired to continue that and I think it was just easier if I shut down.

I don't care if all of them want to refer to us by the body's name fine. Whatever. I was just hoping that I wouldn't have to be as heavily dissociating but the Hope was very short-lived.

Obviously I still can't control the attitudes of certain headmates when they front. And whatever happens we're just going to have to figure out how to mask.

It just pisses me off when some people are refusing to understand that it's so much more complicated than that and you can't sit there and explain it to them because they get worked up because they are so set in their beliefs. I didn't expect anything else. But it still hurts.

It still hurts being told that you don't exist it still hurts being told that you aren't Who You Are. It's still hard to hear when people decide to tell you that you basically are making it all up in your head to deal with things.

I mean yes it is kind of all in our head. Because if it was on the outside I think it would be more prominent and people would actually see it. But there's no cure for it there's nothing to just fix it and I don't want it to be fixed. I like existing as I am.

She just had to tell me so much that she's right and I'm wrong and I can never argue with her and I don't want to get into an argument with her most specifically because that's not what I'm here for. I'm here for work and if I have to endure whatever I'm being put through then fine.

It's not even about lacking understanding it's even the basic disrespect of the fact that she won't even acknowledge us as who we are by our names.

It's just.. ugh exhausting

(edit) [4am Aug 26th still part of yesterday]

Despite being forced to mask and told that each of us is just emotions/thoughts given name (like she legitimately things I just name my individual thoughts and emotions and I know I can't argue back) I still had an okay day.

I can't tell if I split or didn't or maybe I just have a walk in of my own in my subsystem. But either way.. there is definitely yet another running around up here.

Everything was so stressful. From driving here on my own to cornered by her foster kids and climbed all over me. I don't like being touched but they may just have abandonment issues.

Well I got to work and work went well. My legs are still getting used to really being used again so of course they ache. Needless to say, I slept like a rock. I'd also driven here all night and stayed awake to work. Safe to say my schedule is probably well fixed and or will be in no time.

And at the end of the day, everything was interesting and I wasn't bored or depressed! Really the worst of it was being exhausted and extremely annoyed that I have to mask. But you know what, fuck it. I'll just treat this place like a work environment and they'll get to believe whatever of me because these things stay out of work for us anyway. Masking sucks, it does, but at the end of the day, we have each other.