#two state

[girlactionfigure]

[eretzyisrael]

@kyg_best

[chanaleah]

Hi, I appreciate that you emphasize you support a 2 state solution. What do you think of the Netanyahu gov't consistently opposing a Palestinian state? Also polls of Israelis indicating the majority wants a single state solution? Do you see a way to change these people's minds?

I think there needs to be a slow process to peace. Neither Israelis nor Palestinians trust the other side, and I think both are justified in that.

Since even before 1948, Israel has offered peace again and again and the Arab nations have rejected it. Israelis see how after the second intifada, Israel pulled out of Gaza, bulldozed the settlements, and handed it all over to Palestine. In return, they got rockets and terrorist attacks.

Palestinians in the west bank/judea & samaria see how extremist settlers continually encroach upon their land and act violently, and how the Israeli govt does almost nothing to mitigate it, sometimes even encouraging it. Gazans see how the most basic of items - fabric, medical supplies, toys - are restricted from entering Gaza. They see airstrikes destroying their homes and neighborhoods.

I personally don't support the Netanyahu/Likud govt - the same as a lot of Israelis, however not being Israeli myself I can't really do anything about that.

Honestly, I think people's mind cannot be changed with words. After this war is over (which I pray it will be soon) I think both Israel and Palestine (the Palestinian authority) need to show the other "side" that they are dedicated to peace. Israel can do that by cracking down on settler violence and illegal outposts and by perhaps turning more of Area B over the the PA. Palestine can do that by not committing acts of terrorism and violence. With less violence committed by settlers and Palestinians, I think the restrictions on the West Bank could be eased, and there could become a positive cycle of less violence leading to less restrictions.

I think if the people of each nation see the other government actually making steps toward peace then people might be more in support of a 2SS.

[girlactionfigure]

Calls for creation of a Palestinian state are oft-repeated by politicians (such as Macron) and on this website. But those calls are usually not accompanied by any focus on critical issues regarding the nature of such a state and its functioning. 

The focus, as always, is on Palestinian rights and Israeli responsibilities. But actual statehood entails responsibility - and sensitivity to neighbors' rights. It is past time to go beneath the surface of glib mantras. 

For those who spout platitudes about the need for a "two state solution" - it is incumbent on you to address questions such as the following (just a sampling of issues).  

I submit that if one is realistic, the answers to these questions are unsatisfactory.

 -Will it be formally and irrevocably recognized both by the Palestinians themselves and as a matter of international law that the creation of that state will end *all* Palestinian claims against Israel, including for the so-called "right of return" to Israel itself - i.e. an end to the conflict?   What evidence suggests that the Palestinians would be willing to do that?

-In the Oslo process, the Palestinians agreed to seek redress for their grievances through negotiation, not terror. Israel took "risks for peace" and despite the Palestinians gaining autonomy over their population centers in Gaza and the West Bank, that agreement was broken over the course of Oslo and collapsed utterly with Arafat's launch of the Second Intifada. And yet since Oslo's collapse Israel has borne the brunt of international opprobrium all the way up to October 7 and beyond. Based on this experience, how can Israel have confidence that a Palestinian peace commitment is strategic, not a tactical prelude to the next phase of conflict i.e. an Oslo repeat? 

-Will the new state be demilitarized? 

-Will the new state maintain adequate police power to act against terror groups, and would it actually use that power? 

-What security arrangements will be in place to ensure that the new state is not a launching ground for attacking Israel, as has been the case with all previous Israeli territorial withdrawals, and that there is no ingress of heavy weaponry or terror operatives, construction of attack tunnels, etc.? 

-If those security arrangements are proposed to include an international component, what basis is there to think it would be any more effective than UNIFIL in Southern Lebanon, which has been an utter failure? 

-Must that state be Judenrein, or could it have a Jewish minority, just as Israel has an Arab minority? And if it will have a Jewish minority, what security arrangements will be in place for them? 

-How will that state be governed? Will it be a democracy? If so, how can it be ensured that Hamas 2.0 will not use democratic means to seize power, such as occurred in Algeria (and as has precluded any Palestinian election since the early 2000s)? And if not, how would that work? 

-Enmity for Israel runs extremely deep. What educational reforms and other steps will be taken to cause Palestinians to accept actual coexistence with Israel? 

-What would be the precise territorial contours of the state? 

-What arrangements would prevail in Jerusalem? 

-If special arrangements are made to compensate Palestinian refugees and their descendants, will there also be arrangements made to compensate Jewish refugees from Arab lands and their descendants?

[girlactionfigure]

[soonintheclouds]

Saudi Crown Prince: We will assist in helping the Palestinians establish a state | ערוץ 7

“Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on Friday once again stressed the importance the kingdom places on a Palestinian state. Speaking at the Arab League summit taking place in the country, bin Salman said, according to Channel 12 News, “The Palestinian issue was and still is the main issue of the Arab countries and is at the top of the kingdom’s priorities. We will not delay in providing…

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[hppynews6]

Trump peace plan: Two-state solution proposed, Jerusalem to be Israel’s undivided capital!

Trump peace plan: Two-state solution proposed, Jerusalem to be Israel’s undivided capital!

Trump peace plan: Under the vision, Jerusalem will remain Israel’s undivided capital and the Palestinian territory will be doubled.

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[socialistsephardi]

So i think I've gathered enough information about the resolution to say something. I for one am happy that someone is addressing the situation with the settlements. From my perspective, regardless of legality, the settlements are absolutely immoral. I say that with full recognition of the fact that my sister lives in one. I don't want people hurt, but the settlements should be rolled back, just like the settlements in Gaza were. Certainly, I'm annoyed by and/or laughing at those who have taken the "thanks Obama" approach, because they fail to understand that this was going to happen regardless. I also don't understand why they aren't pissed at the other nations. Go yell at Russia, that country y'all want to be close with ffs. Also fuck Bibi and his whining. He knew damn well that the settlements were unjust. He's trying to frame this as anti-Israel, but the settlements aren't even inside of Israel. However, the language in the resolution is problematic. The Western Wall /could/ be understood by the resolution to be occupied territory. Bullshit on that. Jerusalem shall never be divided again, and the Wall shall remain in Jewish hands. Anything else is an evil unto the world. The Wall is the holiest site in Judaism and for thousands of years goyim used it as a trash rubble. They have no claim to the Wall.