#twow spec

[thebluelemontree]

In your opinion, will Sigorn make a capable feudal lord south of the Wall, and will his and Alys Karstark’s Thenns blend in seamlessly with the Northern community? As an aside, I personally believe Harrion will keep Karhold, while the Dreadfort will go to the Magnar and Alys, once House Bolton is extinct and everything is settled post-War for the Dawn. What are your thoughts?

I don't see why he wouldn't make a capable lord south of the Wall but still well within the North, especially with Alys by his side. I do love a power couple, and I think that's precisely what they are being set up to become. "Seamlessly" might be too strong a word. There are bound to be some bumps in the road early on with so much accumulated bad blood over the centuries. The difference is will cooler heads prevail to prevent and contain any violent outbreaks. Even as mortal enemies, the North is the best place to make peace with the Free Folk work. From a southron perspective, northerners are already a bunch of tree-worshipping country bumpkins. In the north North, you get even more hillbilly with the mountain clans, who are ruled by little more than petty lords that constantly quarrel amongst themselves. The Magnar is actually more closely aligned with most northern nobles than with those mountain clan chiefs or your typical wildling warlord. And the Thenns are written to be a natural and needed bridge between the Free Folk and the kneelers.

Thenn society is structured very similarly to life south of the Wall. The kneelers consider them more "sophisticated" because they have a system of lords and laws, with the Magnar as god-king. Because they abide by a hierarchy, they have the discipline to organize themselves more effectively than most other Free Folk. They are used to having permanent settlements, which allows for the mining of copper and tin, and subsequently the development of metallurgy to make bronze armor and weapons. They can decently outfit their own army instead of relying on stealing old random crap from fallen enemies. And the habit of not stealing things tends to go over well south of the Wall.

On the flip side, they primarily speak the Old Tongue, and "for thousands of years they've had more truck with the giants than with other men. It made them different." So among the Free Folk, Thenns are highly regarded as salt-of-the-earth First Men, probably even a little revered for their exceptionally close relationship with giants. They have established credibility with many Free Folk, so their influence can go a long way in convincing the latter that it's in their best interest to keep the king's peace as they resettle into their new way of life -- and that they can do so without giving up all of their cultural identity. The establishment of House Thenn says their people and history will continue on, even if they will never return to their valley of origin. In exchange, the slate will be wiped clean of any past raiding and thieving, and only future crimes will be subject to lawful consequences. Compromise on both sides will be key to successful integration. As for Sigorn himself, he already demonstrates that he can be both proud and flexible when it comes to his people's welfare. His father, Styr, made war on the Wall, died beneath it, and failed to bring his people through with brute force. Sigorn is open to doing things differently. It is significant that Sigorn is the first of the wildling leaders to bend the knee to Stannis, to agree to fight with the Night's Watch and hold the Wall against the Others, and to support Stannis's claim, in exchange for mass pardons, shelter, food, and eventual resettlement. Also, as a show of good faith, Sigorn will be recognized as a lord and granted a castle. And my god, the wedding of Alys and Sigorn is easily among the top 10 best scenes of the series. What a ray of hope it is after all the dirty dealing, bigotry, zealotry, and mutiny that's already happened, plus the horror of what's to come. Alys's father, Lord Rickard, met a bad end, too. He was executed by Robb for killing Lannister hostages. Both Alys and Sigorn could choose to hold on to their anger and make an enemy of any crow, kneeler, or Stark, respectively. That anger is there as we initially see them hurl it at Jon; however, they decide to let those grievances be buried with the dead as they turn toward making a better possible future instead. That's the strength, wisdom, and mercy you want in the people who will rebuild the world. Maybe make it a bit more just than before.

Speaking of Alys, I would say she probably will deserve a lot of credit for establishing strong, capable leadership in House Thenn. Sigorn barely speaks the Common Tongue but can take one look at Alys and know he's more than met his match. She is fierce and brave as fuck. At fifteen, she fled Karhold and made for the Wall alone with only a horse, meager sustenance, and the clothes on her back rather than submit to marrying a usurping cousin. The fact that Sigorn is so smitten with her already bodes well that he will look to her as a co-ruler and trust her counsel in areas he is lacking. When it comes to gender, the Free Folk tend to be a lot more egalitarian than the rest of Westeros.

Alys does first and foremost want Harrion to live as the rightful claimant to Karhold, and I hope he does. As a prisoner at Maidenpool, he's as safe-ish as he can be for now. The crown is a little too distracted at the moment to move up any threat of execution from the backburner. With Alys already married and (minor TWOW spoiler) Arnolf and Cregan's plan to betray Stannis also exposed, that whole plotline seems to have gone thoroughly tits up. So Harrion may make it through to the end. I'm not sure what the Lannisters would hope to gain by his death at this point anyway. Personally, I kinda hope the Dreadfort is razed to the ground by a dragon or the Others. No amount of sunshine and redecorating could erase the centuries of sadism, murder, pain, and misery contained within its walls. Even recently, Ramsay Bolton was hunting and butchering people there for fun. It's John Wayne Gacy's house of horrors, the demolition of which was welcomed as none too soon, and the property's address was changed to help erase it from existence. Fuck the Dreadfort and places like it. Who would honestly want to call that home? Even if you don't believe in curses, it's cursed. Cursed! I tell you.

[calamity-bean]

Excuse the unedited excited rambling here, but I really do go a bit wild when I think about how many of my favorite characters are, last we saw them, all palling around in the southwestern Vale or northeastern Riverlands, practically within A STONE’S THROW of each other...... Jaime and Brienne near Pennytree, likely headed southeast toward where we last saw Lady Stoneheart (and Gendry!), near the crossroads inn...... which is not far at all from the Quiet Isle and Sandor...... and from there you just keep heading east a little longer and you run right into Sansa at the Gates of the Moon! And yeah, there’s travel time between all these places, I’m not suggesting they’re right next door, but considering how far flung many of the characters have become by now?? It’s not much!

And considering EVERYTHING going on with Sansa’s arc right now -- people flocking from all over for the tourney! Sweetrobin being slowly poisoned! Shadrich very probably knowing who she really is! -- I can dream up more than a couple ways some of their paths might cross. Nearby characters might be drawn from the Riverlands to the Vale for the tourney... Sansa might wind up suddenly rushing down to the Riverlands, whether of her own will or to flee or even while being abducted. Characters in ASoIaF sometimes do wind up this close to one other and yet just miss each other, like ships in the night, but man, I’m hoping for some sort of convergence this time. Sandor I won’t really count on -- I don’t want him to stay retired, but I won’t discount the possibility that he might be staying on the QI for good -- but if Sansa ran into Jaime and/or Brienne and/or, y’know, HER UNDEAD MOTHER... Oh man. Oh man. Just imagine.

At the very least, it seems almost certain that we’re gonna get Jaime, Brienne, and Lady Stoneheart all together, and even if Sansa doesn’t cross paths with any of the others... I will disappointed, but I’m still reeaally interested in this whole tourney situation. I wanna see more of Mya and Myranda and Shadrich. I wanna see the tourney itself; in its scope and in Sansa’s deep investment, it already feels like an echo of the Hand’s tourney, which was a really thematically rich part of Sansa’s AGoT chapters, and I wanna see more of her within the context of this tourney compared to that first one. Overall, I just really feel like the plot points in the Vale are building to something BIG for Sansa. Bigger than, say, simply revealing herself and marrying Harry and rallying forces to reclaim Winterfell, as is supposedly Petyr’s plan. I feel like the situation is ripe for something to go WRONG up there, to go very much NOT the way Petyr has planned, and oh boy am I eager to see what it might be.

[ginmo]

do you think Brienne’s ideals are tested because she has to do something morally borderline to save Jaime? that could be good. I hope the challenges GRRM has foreshadowed don’t just involve her hurting Jaime and then feeling bad about it??

Yes, currently that’s what I believe. We already know she’s willing to die. From AFFC:

Seven, Brienne thought again, despairing. She had no chance against seven, she knew. No chance, and no choice. She stepped out into the rain, Oathkeeper in hand.

So... she didn’t suddenly change her mind when she was hanging because she was afraid of dying. IMO, Brienne yelled “sword” because as she was swinging, she realized that she was sacrificing Pod and Hyle and that they were all going to go after Jaime anyway, so they’d die for no reason. Her death doesn’t protect Jaime. If she pretends to go after him, she could maybe save the lives of Pod and Hyle and also get a chance to protect Jaime.

There’s no way she’s going to kill Jaime to please a zombie Cat lol. Lady Stoneheart is essentially Brienne’s version of Jaime’s Mad King. She’s clearly not Catelyn Stark and Brienne knows this, but this is Brienne’s turn to get shoved into the grey areas of oathkeeping and honor. To make Brienne even more grey by giving her equally questionable challenges of morality that Jaime has had, I’m wondering if her decision to go after Jaime ultimately gets Pod and/or Hyle killed anyway. I’m sure Brienne has a plan or is at least trying to formulate one by the time she reaches Jaime. Does she go back for them? Love is now in the equation. What if her plan takes her somewhere else that takes time and it gets Pod and/or Hyle killed? If Pod dies, she’d be sacrificing a child so she could have a chance to protect a person she loves, which is similar motivation to Jaime’s Bran push. It’s not the same, but it would be similar in the sense that he sacrificed a child’s life as an attempt to protect his family, and she’d be letting an innocent child die so she could try to save Jaime’s life. It would be a challenge of morality when love comes into play. I think she would try to return and that would be part of her plan, but just something to think about. If she’s going to go even darker than just having to go against Lady Catelyn who isn’t even Catelyn anymore, I think that’s a plausible scenario he could explore.

[thebluelemontree]

Do you think there is a similarity between Sandor's cynicism and Jaime's broken idealism? And do you think it will connect them in the future (especially as both of them seem set to spend significant time in the Riverlands)?

Oh, yeah. Very much. They are two sides of the same coin in their struggle with knighthood: what it's supposed to stand for vs their soul-crushing experience with it. It would be freaking criminal if they didn't reconnect and interact on the page. I would love to read any conversation between them. Now keep in mind I am not a Jaime expert, though I'm looking forward to doing a closer reread of him at some point. So I might be leaving some things out or oversimplifying. Despite having like one small direct interaction on the page (the joust at the Hand's tourney), there seems to be a lot of shared history and threads that connect them. We know Sandor's grandfather saved the life of Jaime's grandfather, resulting in the establishment of House Clegane. In their generation, however, they are both are products of highly dysfunctional families with a history of abuse (though different kinds), first inflicted by a sibling and then further compounded by their fathers.

Sandor entered service at the Rock at around 11ish years old in 281 or 282 AC, and was probably in his early to mid-teens when he became Cersei's shield. I say this because it seems like Sandor's worldview would have solidified into what it is after serving closely with the Lannisters at a still impressionable age. I imagine Sandor really distinguished himself during and shortly after Robert's Rebellion to get promoted to that privileged position. That's another thing that they have in common. Both distinguished themselves as formidable warriors at an uncommonly young age. I'm sure Jaime, who was already a member of the kingsguard, must have approved of Sandor because I doubt he'd be okay with just anyone guarding Cersei. And this must have been a point of pride for Sandor to prove himself as his grandfather once did, all without being a knight. Just as Jaime was proud of being knighted by Arthur Dayne and receiving his white cloak from King Aerys all at the age of 15, making him the youngest person ever raised to the kingsguard. The types of honors they both earned took them in different directions, but it is still a similarity. Once Cersei is wed to Robert in 284, this probably marks the start of when Jaime and Sandor were in each other's presence on a regular basis. A lot of rambling under the cut. I'm gonna tag @janiedean, because she knows way more about Jaime than I do, in case I get anything wrong or they have something to add that I missed.

While they didn't spend much, if any, time together under Tywin's roof, they were profoundly affected by Tywin's philosophy, ruling style, and expectations. The Rock is a place where weakness is not tolerated. As an orphaned homeless child, Sandor probably saw what Lord Tywin valued and adapted quickly to earn his keep. Sandor knows his role is to be a dog that accepts whatever scraps his master sees fit to give him. While Jaime's role is under enormous pressure to be the golden child heir even though he isn't naturally suited for it and doesn't want it, it's still water from the same well. It's the same overbearing "everyone in their place" mentality. As Tywin says, "There is a tool for every task, and a task for every tool."

Both have killed or attempted to kill a child at the start of the story, and it's no coincidence those respective children are a reflection of their younger selves.

Mycah, the butcher's boy (think how Sandor calls himself "the butcher"), was viciously attacked by Joffrey while playing with a toy sword, (i.e. playing at knighthood) and bloodied his face to teach him a lesson. Then Sandor, with a hardened heart, played his role as the enforcer of an unjust system that destroyed an innocent boy, literally cleaving him nearly in two. If that isn't a metaphor for Sandor's issues with knighthood and his resulting duality with the Hound, I'll eat my hat.

Bran idolizes knights, especially the kingsguard. He imagines himself joining their ranks one day, just as it was Jaime's dream come true when he became the youngest kingsguard ever inducted. Jaime seemed to him a knight from the stories, even if Robb told him why he was called the Kingslayer. In the scene where Bran is pushed from the tower window, Jaime's initial instinct was to save Bran and lift him up to safety, even though Bran had just caught them in the treasonous act of adultery. When Cersei shows disapproval of this choice, Jaime, almost robotically, looks away from Bran and resigns himself to carry out what he thinks must be done out of love, with loathing. This is our introduction to Jaime's conditioned paralysis in these types of situations, mirrored by Bran's literal paralysis.

Jaime's faith in the institution was murdered by a thousand cuts. It wasn't just from the horrifying things he witnessed from King Aerys but also from being chastised by his Lord Commander, Gerold Hightower, that "he swore a vow to guard the king, not judge him." All while said king is BBQing people and brutalizing his wife. When Jaime spoke up to protect the queen, Ser Jon Darry told him it was not their place. Do not use your judgment, Jaime. Do not think. Do not choose. Do not listen to your own moral compass. To be a knight is to be paralyzed by obedience to whom you swore your vows, no matter what the cost. Yes, Jaime's idealism told him his first fundamental oath was to protect the weak, and that's reflected in his natural instincts. Except that notion was drummed out of him by all sides. He was primed for it being raised in a brutal authoritarian family that despises weakness and learned that "love" means his total devotion and sacrifice. No wonder it's just easier to not think, and just "go away inside" so he can just get on with it. Or get through a traumatic event. We see that when he tells Brienne to disassociate from an SA, fearing any defiance will get her killed. That feels similar to Sandor's thought process when he advises Sansa, from one domestic violence survivor to another, to "save [herself] some pain" and just give Joffrey what he wants.

This is a good point to say both Jaime and Sandor have some really intense coping mechanisms for dealing with their trauma: Jaime and his disassociation, his "going away inside." Then putting on that Kingslayer idgaf attitude to cover up how weak and helpless he actually feels, "inside, where it does not show." Sandor with his Hound persona, an identity that helps him feel safe from revictimization, and occasional abuse of alcohol. Obviously, these things are not serving them well because it's led them to be in the service of bad people, and they're totally miserable from all the self-loathing that results from it. You could see how this all gets muddled with their common "love language": acts of service and displays of loyalty. (Not to mention, they are both featured in the two primary Beauty and The Beast themed storylines)

And another thing about these two: MAJOR issues with vows. Conflicting vows and loyalties have Jaime in such a chokehold that he feels more soiled every time keeping one inevitably breaks another. And then carries the constant judgment of others for it with him. The one time Jaime actively used his judgment and followed his own moral compass, he got SLAPPED with a moniker that labeled him as the most dishonorable scum alive for the next 16 years. So of course, he's like throwing up his hands and saying "fuck this shit, not making that mistake again."

Sandor refuses to make any vows to protest the institutions he views as hypocritical and corrupt; however, he justifies his own behavior by saying "I'm honest. It's the world that's awful." Which he knows is a bullshit answer because suddenly he can't stand Sansa looking at him when she was subjected to said awfulness and chose to hold fast to her ideals and remain a decent person. I swear their mentality at this stage is like two overly cynical (but really jaded idealist) teenage know-it-alls that like to lecture at their respective younger teens, who are, in some capacities, way more mature and wise than they are despite their naivete.

Now for how they feel about each other, which is admittedly, not obvious in the text. You have to read between the lines, and you only get one's POV. Jaime seems to be remarkably cool with Sandor. He's one of the few that knows Sandor well enough to be skeptical of his reported involvement with the Saltpans massacre, citing that sounded more like Gregor. SA is something Jaime is very sensitive to, and like I mentioned before, I don't think he would be okay with someone like Gregor being close to Cersei and the children. He does call Sandor dangerous as a statement-of-fact, but he probably did at least treat Sandor like an individual, and not just a Clegane. That's something that is important to Sandor.

We can't see into Sandor's head, but as far as we can tell, he's never said a negative thing about Jaime. That's despite almost certainly knowing about the incest. How could he not? He's very vigilant and observant. People not nearly as close to the queen knew about it. Servants talk. I doubt he'd be all that shocked by it. Now, this might just be the kind of thing Sandor's cynicism and disillusionment would call par for the course. And these are also his liege lords, to whom he feels he owes his loyalty for taking him in; however, I would also guess the fact that Jaime doesn't really pretend to be virtuous would make Sandor less inclined to judge him outright. It's the falsehood that pisses Sandor off, not honest shittiness. And the absence of judgment would be important to Jaime, at the bare minimum.

I'm not claiming they were ever friends by any means, but probably more like work colleagues that respected each other from a distance.

To finally finish up, the one interaction they have on-page is their joust at the Hand's tourney. Sandor is nearly unhorsed by Jaime, but on the next pass, Sandor strikes Jaime so hard Jaime's helmet gets twisted around backward and stuck on. While the crowd has a good laugh at that hilarious spectacle, Jaime seems like a really good sport about Sandor's win. He never shows any anger or hurt pride over this. In fact, Jaime rates Sandor highly as a fighter, so it makes sense he would feel no shame in losing to someone with bonafide skills in a close match. I would say Sandor is probably of the same mind because he wouldn't even bother to joust in Joffrey's name day tourney since the available competition overwhelmingly sucked. I have a feeling that the theme of brotherhood will be something that binds them going forward. Despite being separated by distance, they were made brothers of the kingsguard who wore the same white cloak for a time period. And Sandor stood in Jaime's shoes in the same throne room, paralyzed by indecision while watching his king torture a Stark. And it's something Sandor loathes himself for. This is why I'm dying for any dialogue between them. I can see them really "getting" each other now, especially post-redemption. Right now, I'm of the opinion that Jaime is on the verge of having a confessional moment with LSH, similar to Sandor's, which will make a definitive cut through his Gordion knot conflicting-oaths problem. So I feel like there is real potential here for them to find brotherhood in recovery from soiled knighthood.

I know that was very rambly. Thanks for the question.

[thebluelemontree]

Do you think Brienne and Sansa will meet?

I don't see how or why they wouldn't. It's probably going to be toward the end of TWOW after their current respective story arcs are wrapped up. I talked a bit about this here, but basically, Septon Meribald and Elder Brother will probably be the point of contact that brings "Team Sansa" and Team Brienne together. There are many threads tying different characters together leading back to the Quiet Isle, so getting them all together would kill multiple birds with one stone.

Meribald knows that Team Brienne killed the men who were actually responsible for the Saltpans massacre. Remember Rorge was impersonating the Hound which got Sandor blamed for horrendous crimes he did not commit and will be hanged on the spot if found. EB feels responsible for this because he left the Hound's helm on a cairn for Rorge to find. EB tried to clear Sandor's name through letters, claiming he was already dead, but that hasn't gotten any traction as far as the long arm of the law is concerned. This is real proof that may one day be used to help clear Sandor's name.

Brienne was taken captive by LSH at the inn at the crossroads. EB is a friend of the Heddles and the inn is currently run by Masha Heddle's nieces, Willow and Jeyne. I'm very sure Meribald is on his way back to the Quiet Isle to report that Saltpans outlaws also tried to do the same thing to the orphans sheltering there. They have Team Brienne to thank for preventing another massacre, but they are also facing hanging by LSH. I would think that Willow and Jeyne being associates of this noose-happy renegade R'hllorist cult is some cause for concern.

EB told Brienne the truth that Sandor never had Sansa, but he was with Arya until she left him on the bank of the Trident, which is a dead-end for leads on either Stark sister's current whereabouts; however, it is also not nothing, because Brienne is no longer on a wild goose chase of misinformation and misidentification. The trail may have gone cold for now, but that can easily change with new information.

The Quiet Isle has ravens and EB does get news from the outside world. If anything about Sansa or Arya pings his radar, he is going to take interest. He's already invested in the fates of both Stark sisters just by his investment of time and energy in Brienne and Sandor's stories.

EB has a call to action. In a short period of time, he's met two people who poured their hearts out about their inability to find/help Sansa Stark. When he tries to persuade Brienne that she should go home to her father, she adamantly refuses and says she must fulfill her oaths or die trying. EB was a knight in his old life, and the pull of those vows don't die easily. Case in point: he angrily refuses to forgive Ser Quincy Cox for his failure to protect the people of the Saltpans; however, EB also remained on the island while the massacre was going on. He was able to fight but chose not to as someone who has renounced violence. So his anger at Ser Quincy, who is a feeble old man, seems more like a projection of his own lame excuses and failure to act while innocents were getting slaughtered. That passage certainly isn't necessary to motivate Brienne, because she already knows what a true knight does and she's the one insisting she needs to fulfill her oaths or die trying. Nope, that story and Brienne sticking to her guns are there to motivate EB to act. Not the other way around.

And I would think, as a man of faith, he might take all this as a sign from his gods that he is being called upon to help in a just cause of finding Sansa before the bounty hunters do. Plus, he kinda owes Sandor big time for the Hound's helm fuck up.

And I think between Sansa and Brienne, I think Sansa is finally at a point in her development where she could interact with someone like Brienne without being shocked and judgemental. I go into that here (same as the first link I gave you if you haven't clicked it already). Sansa is more mature, she's taken the stick out of her butt, she's befriended more unconventional women, she's much warmer and more accepting instead of just being outwardly polite, etc. Some of Brienne's self-esteem issues have come from being rejected and mocked by the mean girls, so there's an opportunity here for some healing by someone like Sansa striking up a friendship with her. And I think Sansa would be genuinely curious about this lady knight that exemplifies Sansa's ideals. It would be beautiful to watch unfold.

And let's not forget, they are both halves of the two major B&tB themes going on. Not only that, they were both unknowingly in love with gay men who also happened to be a couple. But now they're over that and have moved on to... *gestures at my blog* They HAVE to meet. I mean, come on. They have way too much to talk about.

[thebluelemontree]

Alayne TWOW preview chapter: You have Sansa aware that LF is participating in a price-fixing scheme that starves the small folk & Alayne planning a 64-course feast for a Tourney in the middle of Winter. Do you think George is critiquing Sansa & LF à la Tyrion criticizing the Crown's expenses during Joff/Marge wedding? And when do you think Sansa will reflect on the smallfolk since its a theme in the other main 6 POV's. Hope this doesn't come across as anti-Sansa, just thinking about themes!

I think it helps to remember that Sansa's intention behind the tourney idea is entirely different than Littlefinger's. It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. Lord Robert's mother had filled him full of fears, but he always took courage from the tales she read him of Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight of legend, founder of his line. Why not surround him with Winged Knights? She had thought one night, after Sweetrobin had finally drifted off to sleep. His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave. And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen. -- Alayne I, TWOW. Her only thought was to help an anxiety-riddled child of murdered parents feel less fearful and defenseless. Robert is able to find his courage when he emulates Ser Artys Arryn and is consequently more physically and mentally resilient. When she told Littlefinger about her idea, he capitalized on it for his own reasons. He saw the perfect opportunity to draw Harrold Hardyng away from Yohn Royce's oppositional influence, leaving Royce up shit creek without a paddle. Harrold could then be caught between Alayne's seductions and pressure from his foster mother, Anya Waynwood, to accept the betrothal plan -- something we know Sansa has mixed feelings about. While the tourney was Sansa's idea, and she's proud of that, the sheer extravagance of it was undoubtedly more Littlefinger. He "went out and made it happen." It's not just showing off. It's a calculated move to extinguish any remaining challenges to his hold on power. The Vale houses are old, prestigious, and prideful, but many are cash poor and heavily in debt. This makes them incredibly vulnerable to flattery and thinly-veiled bribery. (Some are already shown to be overtly corrupt).

Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord.

-- There were gifts as well, splendid gifts. Each of the competitors received a cloak of cloth-of-silver and a lapis brooch in the shape of a pair of falcon's wings. Fine steel daggers were given to the brothers, fathers, and friends who had come to watch them tilt. For their mothers, sisters, and ladies fair there were bolts of silk and Myrish lace. This is a huge turnaround from Lysa's time as regent, whose boneheaded decisions and unseemly behavior thumbed her nose at her vassals. Here, Littlefinger is rolling out the red carpet and giving everyone the V.I.P. treatment. Framing the Winged Knights as a new kingsguard appeals to the culture of tradition and formal pageantry. The new Lord Protector may be too low of birth for their liking, but he is very, very generous with his friends. They know it's bribery, but it's being done in a way that allows the lords to save face and maintain the appearance of having honor. What I'm saying is, Sansa probably did have a role in organizing the event to an extent, but in reality, she only tangentially has something to gain from the betrothal at best. The real winner here is Littlefinger. All she wanted to do was help her cousin, and with lack of other options, maybe get to go home one day.

As you said, Sansa was privy to the price-gouging scheme with the grain. This information came out in the TWOW chapter, at the start of the tourney, and she wasn't necessarily meant to overhear it. So it's not something she's going to be able to do anything about right now, but it's assuredly important she has that information in her back pocket for later. Mass starvation and the potential for social unrest isn't quite an immediate issue as it was in King's Landing. Yes, it is short-sighted folly to have a big ballin' feast on the cusp of what's predicted to be a long winter, both thematically and in reality. There will be harsh consequences. I also think it's a big fuckin mistake to have all these people (and all that grain) gathered in one place while everyone is distracted. That setup is just asking for an epic disaster. Remember arrogant Ser Hugh of the Vale, who Sansa saw die at the Hand's tourney by a giant's lance, and the moons of Arryn sewn on his cloak became soaked with blood? Yeah. High body count coming, for sure. And the loss of that food would be a tragic blow for all of Westeros as much of that grain is sold outside the Vale as a winter staple. But it's thematically fitting to destroy that portion of it as it's tainted goods by the lords who bowed to corruption, represented in that conversation by lords Belmore and Grafton. If George is critiquing anything here, it's that it's not just that people like Littlefinger exist, it's the greater problem of non-sociopathic regular people putting aside their morals to enable them for personal gain. Littlefinger's ability to harm would be much more limited if he didn't have so many cronies. That being said, in that same scene, Sansa also hears Yohn Royce has his own grain stores, ships, and ports out of Runestone. And George has conveniently kept Royce and his resources safely far away from the Gates of the Moon. Hmm. That sounds like it might be something.

While a lot of this sounds bad (LBR, this is twow we're talking about, it's going to be fucking bad), laying waste to Littlefinger's plans may be what Sansa needs to finally escape him in the ensuing chaos. So I would say, all is not lost, anon. Sansa has other opportunities and alliances she can form outside of Littlefinger, which yes, good! She has experience from King's Landing about how not to handle a food shortage, and how good PR is a powerful tool for a leader to have (but needs to be backed by actually serving the people). The things Littlefinger has both intentionally and unintentionally exposed her to will make her a smarter, wiser, and less naive leader. Her training in organization and soft power makes her well-suited to be a logistical leader. I could see her in charge of supply trains getting to where they are needed in the coming war. I could see her sheltering refugees and becoming a great lady of the songs, who comforts and inspires with quiet courage and compassion. Thanks!

[thebluelemontree]

Hey, I'm new to your blog but I love it already! The effort that you put into your answers and analysis is greatly apprechiated!

What do you think about the posibillity that Sansa will give her favour in the upcomming tourney in TWOW to Sandor? I mean they seem to have a history with tourneys.

Here is the excerpt I'm referring to:

[Harry the Heir] grinned. "I will hold you up to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favour in the tourney?"

"You may not. It's promised to... another.". [Sansa] was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone." - Alayne 1, The Winds of Winter

Oh, anon. My dear, sweet anon. The answer to that question is part of my TWOW theory I wrote under the name Blue-Eyed Wolf.

You also might want to check out this essay at the Pawn to Player Project. Brashcandy arrived at some very similar thoughts on the upcoming tourney independently of me, which was thrilling. We did have a nice email correspondence over it afterward, though.

Thanks!

[thebluelemontree]

Hey Blue! I was wondering how you think George will deal with Sansa's reputation as a (co-) Kingslayer? I don't think it's as easy as "Oh, the North doesn't care about any of that" or "Bran will vouch for her". Do you think the Tyrell plot ever comes to light & would it actually undue the damage done to Sansa's reputation? Plus, should SR die in LF's care (as intended), will this further condemn her? I don't know why GRRM wants to tarnish her in-world reputation even if we know she's innocent.

I don't think being implicated in the assassination of a king is something she will be absolved entirely of by everyone, everywhere. And as we can see, her reputation as a kingslayer has been quite the inspiration for some tall tales. The masses seem to only care about a murdered boy-king in as much as it's a really sensational true crime story. I mean, someone even thought to write a play about it. Opinions and attitudes will vary, as they usually do. Which IMO is good writing. Do I think those that maintain belief in her guilt will really matter in the end? No. What always wins people to Sansa's side is the way she treats them, and one way or another, I think she will earn the love of many by her own merits. It's probably safe to say the apocalypse will have a way of putting the past in perspective. The fact of the matter is, Sansa is not a 100% innocent bystander and completely unknowing about the hairnet because she is not an idiot.

"It's very lovely," Sansa said, thinking, It is a ship I need, not a net for my hair.

"Lovelier than you know, sweet child. It's magic, you see. It's justice you hold. It's vengeance for your father." Dontos leaned close and kissed her again. "It's home." -- Sansa VIII, ACOK. She was also instructed to wear this hairnet specifically on Joffrey's wedding day. The interaction she has with Dontos after she receives the Tyrell offer to take her to Highgarden is full of red flags, which she can sense:

When she told Ser Dontos that she was going to Highgarden to marry Willas Tyrell, she thought he would be relieved and pleased for her. Instead he had grabbed her arm and said, "You cannot!" in a voice as thick with horror as with wine. "I tell you, these Tyrells are only Lannisters with flowers. I beg of you, forget this folly, give your Florian a kiss, and promise you'll go ahead as we have planned. The night of Joffrey's wedding, that's not so long, wear the silver hair net and do as I told you, and afterward we make our escape." He tried to plant a kiss on her cheek.

Sansa slipped from his grasp and stepped away from him. "I won't. I can't. Something would go wrong. When I wanted to escape you wouldn't take me, and now I don't need to." Dontos is not relieved and happy she found an alternate means of getting away from Joffrey (red flag). Again, he very insistently hammers into her that wearing the hairnet on Joffrey's wedding day is critical to their escape (red flag). If she has no sense of foreboding that this hairnet has some ill purpose by now, then she wouldn't be so freaked out about going through with that plan or worried things would somehow backfire. Could she be thinking escaping through a backdoor is riskier than going out through the front door under Tyrell protection? Sure. But there are more details that come up later that speak to her having a spidey sense that something is really off about the hairnet. It's not that she knew the jewels were poison specifically. She's just a layperson with no familiarity with poisons of any kind, and I would not expect her to make that guess immediately. But for crying out loud, Dontos told her the hairnet was "VENGEANCE for her father." (RED FLAG) How could a reasonable person not question what that means exactly or not associate vengeance with violence? Sansa avoided asking some pretty obvious and more probing questions when she is very invested in going home. Her ignorance is an intentional choice on her part. She doesn't want to know exactly what hairnet's role is and why it's so important. When the Tyrell plan blows up and she is wed to Tyrion, she commits to wearing the hairnet to the wedding after all, come what may. She had her change of clothes in the godswood, ready to go as soon as whatever happens happens. She's accepted the outcome, even if she isn't 100% sure what the outcome will look like. And after Joffrey is dead, Sansa's feelings are understandably mixed.

He had not been dead when she left the throne room. He had been on his knees, though, clawing at his throat, tearing at his own skin as he fought to breathe. The sight of it had been too terrible to watch, and she had turned and fled, sobbing. Lady Tanda had been fleeing as well. "You have a good heart, my lady," she said to Sansa. "Not every maid would weep so for a man who set her aside and wed her to a dwarf."

A good heart. I have a good heart. Hysterical laughter rose up her gullet, but Sansa choked it back down. The bells were ringing, slow and mournful. Ringing, ringing, ringing. They had rung for King Robert the same way. Joffrey was dead, he was dead, he was dead, dead, dead. Why was she crying, when she wanted to dance? Were they tears of joy? Sansa is not someone who wants to stand there and relish Joffrey's agonizing death. Watching him suffer doesn't give her joy, only terror. At the same time, knowing that her abuser is dead and she's free of him makes her want to rejoice. And it's totally okay for her to have this dual nature between wanting to protect what's left of her innocence by running away from the horror of that vengeance realized AND feeling a sense of satisfaction that ding-dong the motherfucker's dead (I love how there are bells ringing in the scene). I mean, it's no lie she wanted to see Joffrey dead since her father's execution. Even had the intent of killing him herself in AGOT, and was only stopped by a third party. All it's showing is there is a darker side to Sansa when provoked. Not malicious streak, but a shadow self that lies beyond the limits of her compassion. Of course, I think she still has a good heart. I don't blame her for feeling elated at Joffrey's death or deciding to wear the hairnet when she had no alternatives. Joffrey's threats were escalating in depravity. Ultimately, she says Joffrey's fate was just and that the gods heard her prayer. She just didn't count on being set up (along with Tyrion) to look guilty as hell, and that's the realization that letting Dontos's fairytale "magic stones to take you home" explanation slide did not, in fact, protect her from anything.

As much as she's trying to deny it to herself, everything about her body language (see here and here) screams that she knew on some instinctual level the hairnet was more than just a hairnet for some time. That it is probably was a weapon of some sort. If she had no idea, then she probably wouldn't think anything of the missing stone. It's when the undeniable reality of Joffrey's murder by poison sets in, and she's prime suspect #2, that she's finally confronting Dontos about it.

Even if the Tyrells' involvement was fully exposed (i.e. transferring the poison from the hairnet to Joffrey's wine), that information doesn't automatically exonerate Sansa in public opinion. It just confirms she delivered the murder weapon to the assassin's hand, making her part of an ever-widening ring of conspirators. So if anything, it might make her look even more guilty in some people's eyes, but they probably already thought she was guilty anyway since she has "traitor's blood," fled the scene, and had more than enough motive to kill Joffrey. I cannot stress enough here that George's goal was never to make Sansa look universally bad or good within the story or to readers. He's trying to tell a story where realistically flawed human characters are struggling with internal conflict as much as external ones. For Sansa's part, he's trying to take her from naive unearned idealism to forged-in-the-fire earned idealism. For that, he's putting her through moral challenges that are increasingly less clear-cut. That means, sometimes her hands won't be 100% clean. And that's okay! Sansa's tendency to put on rose-colored glasses so red flags just look like normal flags is a half-inherited trait (Ned does this) and half-coping mechanism when shit gets too real. It's a flaw that is very easy to sympathize with under her circumstances of being manipulated, coerced, and entrapped into doing things she isn't comfortable with; however, it's a coping mechanism that will not serve her and has to be unlearned if her adversary is Littlefinger and Sweetrobin's life hangs in the balance. Littlefinger's grooming is meant to slowly tease out that shadow self, erode her conscience, and walk her over in baby steps to a fully-fledged sociopathic-leaning partner in crime.

It's highly unrealistic for her to come out smelling of roses after a long association with Littlefinger and being increasingly implicated in his crimes; however, this is what whistleblowers are for. They come forward and expose the corruption they were once a party to. And yes, it takes courage to face the potential backlash or consequences to do the right thing. That's earned idealism. As for Sweetrobin, I don't have the energy right now to elaborate on how I don't think it's a foregone conclusion he will die. I'd say it's 60/40 he'll live. Some key points:

The waif's story tells us how it's possible to survive the ravages of sweetsleep abuse IF there is an intervention by a healer that knows how to treat it. It can leave a person permanently affected, but they can live to adulthood. I don't think George decided to give us this fun fact for no reason at all.

Maester Colemon is being purposefully vague and withholding critical information on SR's dosage and tolerance levels from Alayne. Once again, she is a layperson. Not a maester. She doesn't, at this time, have a reason to suspect a maester is recklessly endangering SR by overprescribing what is known as a legitimate medicine with anticonvulsant properties. She is not aware of how the drug's misuse is contributing to SR's condition. And it looks like Colemon anticipates an overdose soon, so he's getting ready to shift the blame onto Alayne. Or so he hopes. This situation is far more complex than the poisoned hairnet plot and will require more advanced detective skills from Sansa. Sweetsleep is not generally regarded as poison. It's medicine. Sansa has some pieces of the puzzle here, but not enough yet to put a picture together. Yes, SR is in real danger of dying if someone doesn't figure out what's going on and intervenes. His death could be a wake-up call for Sansa; however, this is also an opportunity in TWOW for Sansa to figure out what's happening and potentially SAVE her cousin's life (fist pump). So with all this in mind, I don't think it's appropriate or necessary to reward her with her name and reputation universally restored. She can have a little checkering on her story, and still turn out to be an overall good person who is loved and respected by people who actually matter to her. Thanks for the question!