#venom meta

[bruisedconscience-reblogs]

real talk he dimension hopped/multi-versed in the bar with dani rojas right, so that eddie wasn’t our eddie??? eh????

[bakageta]

What if the reason Venom doesn't shape their limbs into blades or clubs and keeps their form Human (but make it Bigger) is because the more extreme the difference between host and bonded form, the more the host's sense of proprioception is damaged?

Blades and clubs at the ends of limbs degrade fine motor control until the host's hands are useless. Regularly forming extra limbs creates an expectation of those limbs in the host and they become clumsy and unbalanced without them. Additional sense organs make the host feel blinded and muffled without them, and they become jumpy and paranoid.

So Venom limits themself. At first because here is a potential long term host, and there's no need to ruin him so quickly. Temporary offshoots of mass are probably okay, reaching and grasping with a tendril shouldn't be too damaging. Then because they want a mutualistic symbiosis, and they can't have that if they ruin Eddie's sense of his own body. So their form is humanoid, they limit their projections, and they use the tools their environment gives them.

Eddie does occasionally need to remember that he's not 8 feet tall with claws on his hands, though.

[ihasafandom]

Carnage Rewrite Part 4

Part 4/?

First / Second / Previous / Next Okay, looks like the consensus is that the institution sucks for Frances and the other inmates both, 0-1-3. Good to know. Also apparently her name is Shriek and not Scream. Sorry about that, my bad.

So, how did the movie go again? Lemme grab a scene-by-scene recap and summarize it.

Ok, that's a lot!

So lemme just...

I'll put the text in the readmore, but skip to "/summary" to skip.

Suffice it to say, it's got just as much trash as it does treasure. But it does give us something to work with!

Next time I'll make a list of storybeats from both the summary and the work we've already done here, and then synthesize them into a working outline.

Part 4/?

First / Second / Previous / Next

obligatory @symbruary even though it's now march orz

summary

Cletus and Frances talk about her powers and her getting transferred to another prison. Failed escape attempt during transfer, she gets shot by Mulligan.

Cletus insists that he get to talk to Eddie, Venom wants to eat the cop who brings him the news cause he’s a jerk but is rebuffed, Cletus wants a haiku printed in the paper for Frances, Eddie and Venom see the drawing in Cletus’ cell.

Venom reproduces the drawings, they determine that they mean that the bodies of Cletus’ victims are buried at the beach, this leads to the death penalty for Cletus.

Venom’s unhappy with their current diet, we see Sonny and Cher, Venom wants to be “the Lethal Protector” taking out bad guys.

Mrs Chen’s chocolate shipment is late, Eddie & Venom stop a mugging but Eddie talks V out of eating the mugger. They get a call from Anne.

They meet Anne at a restaurant (V is hoping she’ll take them back), and she reveals that she and Dan are engaged. Anne deduces that Venom is alive and tells it to take care of Eddie because he sucks at it and drives people away. Eddie drives home dangerously and V saves them.

Eddie goes to meet Cletus again, after a postcard with backstory that IDK about anyone else but I didn’t care about. Cletus provokes them, Venom pushes him, the confrontation draws blood which is visibly alive when Cletus later ingests it.

At home Eddie and Venom argue (Eddie feels unable to live his life and Venom is starving) and have a domestic violence. They separate and V possesses someone else while Eddie cleans the apartment.

Carnage prevents the lethal injection, it and Cletus slaughter the guards and escape. Carnage explains it wants to kill Venom so it will be the strongest symbiote, Cletus agrees so long as they find Frances. They steal a car and hack the internet to learn where she’s being held.

Eddie sees news of the escape, Mulligan orders Eddie to keep him updated if he finds anything out. Eddie investigates St Estes, sees “CK + FB” on a tree, tells Mulligan (who thought he killed Frances when he shot her years ago)

Venom goes thru bodies, but they are bad matches and keep dying. Goes to nightclub, people think it’s a costume, he does a speech and they love him but he misses Eddie. They go to Mrs Chen for help, arriving as their latest body is dying.

Cletus arrives at Ravenloft where Dr. Pazzo is taunting Frances. Cletus kills the Dr with tentacles and breaks her out, renaming her shriek. They kill the guards and go to St Estes to burn it. Cops arrive, Carnage and Shriek fight back, Carnage orders Cletus to keep Shriek under control.

Eddie taken into custody by Mulligan as bait for Cletus. He contacts Anne for help, Dan drives her tp the station and Eddie tells her he needs V so he can fight back.

Anne & Dan go to Mrs Chen, Anne realizes V is there and Mrs chen is compatible, and convinces it to go with them. They return to the station, Anne goes in and she-Venom breaks Eddie out. Venom demands a sincere apology, Eddie relents and apologizes for sending Venom out of his body, they rebond.

Cletus & Shriek plan a wedding, plan to kill respective targets – Shriek Mulligan, Cletus Eddie, Carnage Venom. They catch Mulligan and go to Anne’s Apartment, knock Dan out & capture Anne, leave note. Dan calls Eddie, tells him to go to cathedral.

Eddie, V and Dan arrive at cathedra, Venom panics at Carnage’s size and colour, Eddie promises V can eat anyone they want. They fight, Shriek tries to help but is rebuffed by Carnage despite Cletus’ protests. Dan throws fire at Carnage, Mulligan tries to flee but is cornered & hanged by Shriek.

Carnage collapses ceiling on Venom, grabs Anne to take to roof. V thinks they are not strong enough, Dan points out Cletus and Carnage are not as bonded cause Cletus is fighting against their treatment of Shriek, this inspires V to rise up and fight back and they stop Carnage from eating anne and save her from falling.

Bell ringing causes the symbiotes to weaken, Eddie & Cletus fight as men, Carnage & shriek have V cornered but V knocks Shriek off a ledge and her scream separates the symbiotes before she is crushed by the bell. Eddie & Cletus fall, V uses anne and Dan to catch Eddie but Cletus and Carnage are separated. It tries to crawl back to him but V eats it, grabs Cletus – who tells Eddie that all he wanted was for Eddie to be his friend – declares “fuck that guy” and eats his head.

Eddie & V skedaddle before the police arrive and Mulligan is alive but his eyes glow blue like Shriek’s. Later E&V try to decide what to do. They think about separating for good but decide to retreat to a tropical island instead.

V tells Eddie that symbiotes can see the multiverse, and when it’s about to demonstrate they are transported to the MCU. They see a news report about Spider-man and V growls and licks Spidey’s image.

/summary

[wisteria-lodge]

Eddie Brock’s AGRESSIVELY San Francisco T shirts as character choice

(I did not mean to use such goofy screencaps of Tom Hardy, but he makes a lot of very goofy faces in Venom (2018) 

First, just appreciate, please, how TOURISTY this t-shirt is. 

Now this one is merch from the Fillmore, a historic San Francisco music venue (not the SF in smaller lettering) 

And this one is more subtle, but is from a SPECIFICALLY San Francisco menswear brand called Benny Gold

And... I get this as a character choice. Eddie Brock is a born-and-raised New Yorker uprooted from his city (not easy on anyone, ESPECIALLY not easy on a New Yorker, ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY not easy on a reporter in new york.)  And he is desperately trying to adopt this new city (his girlfriends city.) He’s desperately trying to make this thing work. It’s dorky, and sweet. 

The San Francisco branding disappears after he bonds with Venom, and I read that as Eddie no longer feeling incomplete, and trying to bond with something larger than himself. He and Venom are a self-contained whole. 

[guessimabasicnerdgirlnow]

The vibe I got from movieverse is that V mostly just do their own thing when he and Eddie are at home. Definitely watches TV on his own, listen to music too, maybe browse the internet? Big fan of telenovelas, maybe watches cooking shows too. Probably try lots of diy projects.

They have a whole life without Eddie. I mean, Eddie is there physically but doing his own stuff, paying little attention to what V is doing and just feeling thankful he is not causing trouble and destruction.

The post credit scene was probably the first time Eddie actually watched that show with V.

Eddie calls V selfish but V doesn’t depend on Eddie because he wants to. He does things for Eddie like the breakfast or helping him with work all the time (with variable success). He just has needs (food) and he needs Eddie to provide it for him, or consent to V use their body to hunt.

And Eddie sees V as selfish because he doesn’t see V’s pleas as asking for food because he starving, rather he sees it as V asking him to kill people, which since the last movie Eddie realized he isn’t as okay with as he thought he was. I think he doesn’t get it, that most human food does nothing to V, that while they share Eddie’s body and Eddie’s body is okay, it doesn’t mean that V’s body doesn’t have needs too. (Wow picky eaters can relate to V here huh). But really, Eddie is the selfish one. For that and also for never allowing himself to know V. Do he and V do stuff together at home? Stuff that wasn’t already something Eddie does? I bet the post credits scene was the first time Eddie watched V’s telenovela. I bet he never cooked with V.

But in the end, when they realize they are symbiotic, they make once again the choice to be together. They’re different, they’re flawed, but they are willing to work towards a good relationship.

[verycharismaticdragon]

scroll fast to not catch venom spoiler

underapreciated moment in Venom:

at the end of the bike chase, Eddie says “oh that was pretty cool actually, not gonna lie” and then is hit by the bad guy’s car right after

which is 100x funnier the second time watching because you realize that was the first time someone called Venom symbiote, a known loser, cool

and hearing that caused them to fuck up immediately

[fuckyeahisawthat]

I found it really funny and odd how so many of my Mad Max: Fury Road peeps also really fuckin loved Venom, since on the surface they don’t seem like particularly similar movies, other than both being action flicks starring Tom Hardy. But then I kept finding more weird similarities:

- Tom Hardy plays a motorcycle-riding, leather-jacket-wearing dude who looks like a stoic action badass, is actually a softie full of vulnerability and feelings. His character is in a multi-vehicle chase where he almost gets squished between two cars.

- Bad guy is a rich and powerful dude who treats the poor and vulnerable as disposable, gives a whole speech about how he’s a godlike figure who’s saving the world.

- Two characters go from “stuck together under extreme duress” to “would die 4 u” by sharing a series of near-death experiences in rapid succession.

- No restrained playing it cool here, just fucking goes for it, balls to the wall with whatever’s going on. No chill. Chill is mediocre.

- Weird mix of tones that somehow works.

- Cannibalism: just gonna happen sometimes.

[honorarycassowary]

Venom vs. Mary Jane: 1988-2008

Venom’s first appearance in Amazing Spider-Man #299 is iconic. Mary Jane comes home, sees Peter in the darkness - and is horrified to learn that it isn’t Peter at all.

It’s gotten quite seared into the mythos of Venom’s origin that he was originally introduced threatening Mary Jane. I imagine when this issue was first released, seeing a distorted Spider-Man-like monster threatening MJ in her own house was an incredible cliffhanger! In the original comics, though, we don’t actually see Venom’s confrontation with Mary Jane beyond these opening lines. We only see the aftermath, where MJ is crying from fear, and hear her account of the event. 

Mary Jane: He wanted to know where my boyfriend was! He didn’t even know we were married!

Peter: Never mind that! Are you okay? Did he hurt you?

Mary Jane: Not ... physically. H-he just made me feel so helpless.

We also see Eddie and the symbiote talking among themselves after they’ve returned to their apartment. 

Yeah, yeah, I know! The woman wasn’t our target! but shaking her up could still work! I mean, if we don’t find him - he might find us! Either way...

There’s a couple interesting things about this conversation. First, Eddie’s dialogue here implies that he’s persuading the symbiote that threatening Mary Jane was okay, because they need to force a confrontation with Spider-Man somehow. Based on the phrasing, it seems like the symbiote objected to hurting Mary Jane, presumably because she was an innocent. (A bit of speculation I want to mention here is that back in Amazing Spider-Man #258, when the symbiote was posing as Spider-Man’s costume, Mary Jane revealed she knew Peter Parker was Spider-Man and that his lies over the years had hurt her deeply - could the symbiote have overheard this, and felt some commonality between itself and Mary Jane? Wanted Eddie to extend some sympathy towards her as someone who had also been wronged by Spider-Man?)

Secondly, it seems like Venom didn’t go to Peter’s apartment looking to threaten Mary Jane. “The woman wasn’t our target” - and who else could be their target but Peter Parker? Mary Jane was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and Eddie improvised, it seems.

But all that is backstory. Because like I said at the start, Venom’s introduction is iconic - and if there’s one thing iconic comics always have, it’s retellings. There’s been a lot of discussion in Venom fandom about how the portrayal of the symbiote during its time with Spider-Man has changed from the original Black Suit Saga up until modern retellings, but I haven’t seen the same discussion applied to retellings of Venom’s first appearance. 

To my knowledge, this scene has been retold twice: once in Uncanny Origins #7, and once in Dark Origin #4. We’ll go by order of publication date. 

Uncanny Origins was a series of oneshot comics retelling various characters’ origin stories; it ran from 1996 to 1997. The writer only had one issue to work with, so he pulled bits from Eddie’s backstory with Anne Weying, most of Amazing Spider-Man #300, and other bits and pieces, including that iconic intro from #299. It sticks very close to the original, even lifting bits of dialogue, but it’s the bits where it diverges that interest me.

Now we have the power to kill Spider-Man! And we know everything about Spider-Man that he knew when he wore the symbiote as his costume - we know who he is, where he lives - who he’s married to...

Mary Jane: Don’t come near me! P-Please! D-don’t touch me!

Venom: Ha ha! Worked like a charm! She’ll still be shaking in her designer boots when she’s old and gray. Yeah, yeah, I know the woman wasn’t our target - but what’s the point of knowing that Spider-Man is really Peter Parker if don’t use it to our advantage ... like terrorizing his wife just enough to get his attention!

From the start here, we see that Venom is much more deliberate about terrorizing Mary Jane in particular. In the first set of panels, Venom says that they know Mary Jane is Peter’s wife (which Venom explicitly didn’t know in the original version) and includes her identity in their list of information they can use to kill Spider-Man. In the second panel, we can see Venom watching Mary Jane walking home, meaning Venom broke into Peter’s apartment specifically to threaten her. In the original version, Venom wanted to find Peter and kill him, but was fine with Peter tracking him down for a confrontation as well; here, Eddie and the symbiote are trying to force Peter to come to them. 

I’d like to note, though, that this version keeps the internal argument between Eddie and the symbiote about whether Mary Jane is their target; it seems like this version still has the symbiote arguing she isn’t the true target and they should focus on Spider-Man, meaning Eddie is taking a harder stance on drawing Spider-Man out by threatening Mary Jane, as reflected by the changed second half of his dialogue.

Now we get to Dark Origin. This probably needs no introduction, but just in case - Dark Origin was published in 2008-2009 to introduce fans brought into the comics by Spider-Man 3 to Venom’s comics backstory. It departs from established backstory in several ways, and its retelling of Venom’s first appearance is similarly divergent.

Venom: Not just a costume... We find that very... very... offensive.

Mary Jane: Oh my god!

Eddie: I don’t know her. Is she his woman?

Symbiote: Yes... he chose her over us.

For starters, the scene is set up differently: Mary Jane initially mistakes Venom for a costume until they start talking (this scene also uses all-original dialogue; no quoting from #299 here!). This is also the first version of this scene where the reader can see the symbiote’s thoughts as well, and it eggs Eddie on throughout the scene by telling him that Spider-Man chose Mary Jane over it, which is an interesting contrast to its apparently reluctant-but-enabling-Eddie stance in the original and the earlier retelling. (I also happen to think this is an odd extrapolation for it to make, given that the symbiote’s time with Peter happened when he was more romantically entangled with Felicia than MJ, but I’m not here to adjudicate all of Dark Origin’s writing choices.) 

Dark Origin is by far the longest of these three stories, dedicating eight pages to Venom confronting Mary Jane. It doesn’t actually show either of their responses to the aftermath, but you win some, you lose some, I suppose.

Venom: You know we had a girl once. But when she found out we’d lied to her, she left. But he’s a bigger liar than me, and gets the girl... that’s not fair! I’m a good guy too! I’m a hero...

Remember how I said earlier that Dark Origin diverged from the original? Yeah, this is what I meant. 

The first two version of Venom’s introduction have them frightening Mary Jane, but it’s indicated in both versions that Venom never physically hurt Mary Jane (obviously breaking into her house and threatening her husband was psychologically harmful, especially since Mary Jane had no idea if Venom would hurt her or not). 

But in Dark Origin, Venom is much more physical with Mary Jane. The symbiote grabs her and drags her around with its tendrils; Eddie gets right in her face and nearly licks her; on the page after this they toss her into a wall. Eddie complaining to MJ that it’s not fair Peter gets the girl and he doesn’t also has a much creepier vibe than the original 80s dialogue did. It fits with the sort of “generalized scumbag” vibes I get from the Dark Origin versions of Eddie and the symbiote, but it’s definitely a different take on their characters than the 80s version. 

While the basic outline of Venom’s confrontation with Mary Jane remains the same (Venom breaks in, Mary Jane mistakes them for Spider-Man, Venom frightens her and threatens Peter), the tenor of the story changes greatly from 1988 to 2008. Granted, we haven’t had any retellings of this scene since Dark Origin, so I can’t be so confident about charting a trend, but it’s still interesting to see how very different the same story can be told twenty years apart.