why am i so bad at being good?

J. she/they. 23. Black. ISFP. mostly zk, but prone to rarepair brainrot. occasional salt rabbles. Sometimes writer?

[tea-and-la]

sorry but shit like this always reads delusional af to me.

"so many zukka moments" really??? what, like zuko mentioning that tagah was attractive? that sokka called zuko's face pretty? (as if friends can't also say this.) this is not even me saying this to hate, but that's so so minimal. it truly baffles me that people will eat shit like this up, and then when someone ships two characters who canonically almost died to save each other, that's seen as delusional.

also on a separate note, kataang and zukka shippers are so determined to "kick zutara off the pedestal." if they gotta talk about it as often as they do, that means it hasn't happened yet and folks need to learn to cope better. like why is your measurement of how "good" your ship is based off "de-throning" the most popular ship in the fanbase?

[sweetpea67]

“Just cause Katara forgave Zuko doesn’t mean she has to forget his evil deeds! It doesn’t mean she wants to be friends with him” she does want to be friends with him, though. They are friends. Canonically. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

[tea-and-la]

it’s always funny how canon supremacists understand what is and isn’t canon until it comes to zutara’s friendship lol. that’s when they start to self-insert and claim that katara would never be over it even though she canonically is and cried when she saved her friend’s life.

[tea-and-la]

“just as intense as me”

Korrasami and Zutara are two of my favorite OTPs because of their similar dynamics. At the core of both relationships, is the unconditional, non-judgmental acceptance of ALL sides of each other. 

In the Spirit World, there’s this beautiful scene when Korra and Asami are figuring out what they mean to each other. Korra reveals that she’s never felt understood because everyone else perceived her as ‘too much’: 

I really loved this panel because Korra presents as extremely confident and unconcerned with other people’s opinions, even from a young age. “I’m the avatar, you gotta deal with it.”

But here, in this panel she lets her guard down and is extremely vulnerable in confessing that she does notice how people view her and that, in a way, before Asami, it made her feel alienated, alone. 

The way that Asami is able to accept even her emotional, intense, and wild side (and even indulge in it--like their race car date) is so special because a strong relationship should be founded on complete acceptance of a person. It shouldn’t involve picking a choosing which traits you like about a person and ignoring or criticizing the traits that don’t fit into the idealized image you want to see.

I think Zutara represents the same thing to me, unequivocal acceptance of the person’s whole self. (Yes this is gonna be an excuse for me to talk about the southern raiders again)

Something I notice a lot of antis say while expressing dissent of Zutara (and support of kat/a*ng) is that “Katara is hot-headed and needed someone calm like A/ang to balance her out.” I’ve even heard someone refer to her as needing a ‘talk-me-down partner’ and while I’m not going to get into the nuances of why THAT take annoys me (and is canonically incorrect due to HER actually being the one to remain calm/level headed in emotionally charged situations except southern raiders), I think it fundamentally misunderstands Katara as a character.

Anyway, like Korra, I think the people closest to Katara have a tendency to think of her as being “too emotional and intense.” Of course, there was that jokey line the writers threw out in Ember Island Players: 

But on a serious note, there are several scenes that contrast how differently Katara and the rest of the gaang (particularly Sokka and A/ang) see things. For example, when Katara is initially unsuccessful in rescuing Haru, she refuses to leave without helping the Earthbenders and Sokka ‘we don’t have much time. get on!’ and then when he realized she wouldn't change her mind ‘i hate when you get like this. come on, let’s hide.’ 

 It’s emphasized again when Katara challenges Pakku to a duel and also, when Katara and Toph quarrel. Both times, A/ang as the mediator remarks, “she didn’t mean that.”

And again, in The Painted Lady when everyone else (Toph, Sokka, and A/ang) are willing to leave the polluted FN town and go about their mission. Then Katara delivers her powerful line, “i will never ever turn my back on people who need me.” 

That intensity, the drive to help everyone in need and her sacrificial nature, is most intently paralleled with Zuko’s arc. “you’re just as intense as me.” 

And finally, I’d be remiss to not mention The Southern Raiders. This is probably Katara’s most emotionally intense episode. And it is clear that her friends do not understand her motivations in this episode. She’s met with comments like “Um...what will this accomplish?” “You sound like Jet.” “She was my mother too (but I don’t feel the need for revenge so why do you?)”

In this episode, Zuko is able to be in a supportive role for her because he understands and also had the same drive to confront the person who took his mother away from him. Katara rarely shows emotion, but here she is clearly in pain and instead of deescalating her anger, it is exacerbated by her conversations with a/ang and sokka because they think she’s being too intense. 

I just think the fact that zuko accepted her negative emotions and never made her feel bad for having them shows how much he accepted all sides of her. And like Korrasami, it’s one of the things I love about what their relationship could’ve been.

[starry-nights12]

Toph wearing Aang's shirt bc she likes how he smells

[tea-and-la]

this would eat so well with a toph that is stubbornly denying her feelings (and that she is cold) when aang gives her a shirt to borrow.

[archives468833]

Nah like, as a society we really should talk about how antis discuss Taang and specifically, Aang.

They act like parasocial boy moms who wholeheartedly believe that their son (Aang) is a perfect, sweet boy and no woman under the sun deserves him.

Meanwhile, the son in question can't wait to graduate school and leave his crazy mom behind and run off with the girl she disapproves of 💀

[tea-and-la]

the fact that someone literally posted this today:

and someone else commented this:

like you heard it here first. you can only “validly” ship taang if you also ship kataang for some reason.

[tea-and-la]

TBH i feel like to be a taang shipper, you have to have an eye for subtle details.

the whole reason that toph was accidentally burned by zuko in the western air temple episode is because she went after him for aang. no one else in the gaang was willing to do that at this point in the show. toph knew how much aang needed a firebending teacher. she even says that she was hoping to talk to zuko and work something out.

toph knows aang needs to learn firebending but i think she can sense that he is deadset on not letting zuko into the group because of their history, but also because it is convenient for him to continue avoiding firebending. i think it is her hope to push him past the avoidance and his fear. she is obviously someone whose opinion aang values, so she knows that if she can suss zuko out, it might hold more weight. she has subtle ways (like this scene) where she consistently supports him and his growth without being asked or expected to.

[tea-and-la]

Pedestaling of Aang

was watching this tiktok earlier today about why the op felt katara and aang were incompatible (here) and it remind me of something.

in the tiktok, op points out that katara suppresses her negative emotions because she has a subconscious desire to emotionally shield aang. she references the waterbending scroll where katara tells aang to shut his air hole and how his reaction (wide eyed and tearful) makes katara immediately remorseful about her words. after that point, she pretty much never gets angry at aang, even in moments where it would be reasonable to do so (i.e. in the desert episode where she is yelled at).

it made me think of the episode where aang "learns" to firebend from jeong jeong, and accidentally burns katara. canonically, katara is decentered from that experience almost immediately, when she has to reassure aang that she's okay. additionally, she doesn't have any residual thoughts about it at any point in the series after that episode. we are meant to empathize with aang in this scene - how apologetic he is and how sad it is that he is being thrown to the ground by sokka. it becomes this penance that aang fans praise him for, and even find it romantic that he refuses to firebend again -- despite the fact that katara doesn't agree.

over the years, i've seen disturbing comments from people including blaming katara for "not getting out of the way" or "using waterbending to block." arguments like this (as well as overemphasis of the context/how aang feels after) always come from a compulsatory need to protect aang from criticism. which is why i find it ironic that aang/ka fans cannot fathom the idea of katara pedestaling aang when they do it in fandom constantly. Compared to when zuko accidentally burns toph, the emphasis was on toph's feelings (the impact) and not the intentions. Aang asks her directly how she feels about zuko joining the gaang, and toph says it'll give her time to get back at him for burning her feet (lol).

i also agree with a point in the tiktok where she describes that it is not nearly emphasized enough that katara is the last SWT waterbender and she did not get to grow up with masters surrounding her in the way that aang did for 12 years. within canon and even within the fandom, aang's experience as the last airbender is meant to be heavily centered to wash away any critiques. If not, you're being insensitive and (for some reason) antis start to conflate irl and assume that you can't possibly be pro-Palestine.

when katara tells aang, he doesn't understand how she feels in TSR, people have continued to hate on her for that comment FOR YEARS. when aang says the same thing in the new aang movie, "it's valid." the imbalance in the way some kas handle katara and aang's trauma often seems to favor pedestaling aang despite the fact that their trauma is often referenced as something that ka can bond about.

[tea-and-la]

funnily enough people love shipping toph and kanto as if kanto's whole "obsessed with how strong/cool toph is" gimmick was not taang's dynamic first.

[tea-and-la]

people who hate zutara because he betrayed her trust while shipping zukka make me laugh. do you really think sokka would be with someone who hurt his sister irreparably? like, yall think so little of sokka (bc of hypocrisy) when he’s been shown to be hella protective over katara.

[tea-and-la]

idc what people ship but these type of conversations over shipping differences need to stop.

telling a native person their indigenous background doesn’t matter bc “they’re american first”

invalidating Black “americans” who have went though centuries of unspeakable horrors and dehumanization that is still ongoing. i was “born in america” because my ancestors were fucking stolen.

[tea-and-la]

i find it hilarious when antis say that zukkas and zutophs and jetkos are the only ones who "do zuko ships right" and "don't make them assimilate" bc where tf do you think zukkas got the idea of sokka being a SWT ambassador from?? lmao

[tea-and-la]

Confirmation Bias in the ATLA fandom

Stating the obvious first, of course, it is fine that people don't ship or like Zutara as a ship. I don't think i've ever ran into a zutara shipper who has even implied that antis should ship it, or that antis are stupid if they do not.

However, it needs to be said that some zutara antis operate from confirmation bias and hypocrisy.

starting with the confirmation bias, there is this assumption that all zutara shippers envision headcanons the same way. To the extent, i've personally participated in conversations with individuals who claimed that 80% of the time, zutara shippers only talk about them in the FN with Katara as FireLady, which is a huge assumption to make especially for a fandom that you aren't a part of. (For example, I don't claim to know what any ship fanart of fandoms I'm not in looks like because I don't regularly engage with their content.)

it honestly feels like zutara antis intentionally go searching for and amplify zutara takes that confirm their feelings that zutara shippers are incapable of morality and undeserving of basic respect to the effect of "see what those horrible fans are doing! i knew they were all bad people!" Essentially, seeking to get more people to be antis, which is why zks have said that this is ship policing. going into ship tags to "convince zks about how stupid they are" or seeing it as your mission to stop people from shipping it is not the unbothered persona that people think it is. like, saying "idc what you ship" and then saying "but zutara is X dynamic" doesn't mean that the last part of that sentence goes away or that you are tolerant of people having different shipping opinions than you.

besides that, there's the very hypocritical assumption that zutara shippers should answer for the "sins" of other zutara shippers (from 1000 years ago) and sweeping generalizations about how zutaras think. for example, it is (beyond my understanding) "reasonable" to send hate to zk shippers because "zks in the past said this" or "zks mischaracterize aang." in no other IRL scenario does it make sense to assume all people who share one commonality think or feel the same way. for example, as a Black person, I do not and should not be seen to represent opinions for all Black individuals. also, people having a different read on fictional characters should not be a hall pass to be intentionally antagonistic to them. like there is no way that there should be viral twitter posts about how ppl are shocked that zutara shippers are capable of being pro palestine because of ship preference. that kind of sentiment is freely shared and supported because so many antis engage in confirmation bias unchecked.

this generalization and hypocrisy extends to colonizer/colonized conversations. as a BIPOC, i will never tell another BIPOC how they should feel about this argument because their lived experiences and perspectives are different than mine. however, i believe sweeping statements like "zutaras support colonization" are inappropriate--especially when stated by people who ship (or are fine with people who do ship) zukka, zutoph, jetko, etc. it feels dismissive of not just the people in fandom (someone recently said that BIPOC zk shippers are lost or seeking "oppressor" approval/affection which is NOT something you should say to someone irl) but also the characters. a few weeks ago, someone said that jetko was fine bc "jet didn't have colonization as bad as katara" and that "jet has more power than katara and an army" (note: i do ship jetko as well). additionally, for the past few years, i've seen some zukkas imply that sokka wasn't as affected by their mom's passing/didn't have as much trauma, so that's why zukka would be more permissable. i've even recently had someone imply that the difference in how the colonizer/colonized argument is discussed wrt zutara and zukka is because zukkas "aren't as loud" about their ship not being canon (despite the fact that ofc this presumes that all zks wanted zk to be canon). when these comments are leveraged, it feels less about the actual issues at hand and more about disdain for a group of shippers themselves. none of the arguments for why these biases/criticisms are disproportionate make sense (i.e. discussions of this argument should include all ships).

in general, i just wish that people didn't come into conversations with knee-jerk preconceived biases about their character/morality. i don't ship kataang or maiko, but idc if people do, and i'm mutuals with people who do. i don't think all kas or maikos should answer for strange things said by a person in their fandom. i think fandom culture needs to shift away from generalization and back to viewing people as their individual self.

[tea-and-la]

And by zuko having something to gain by switching sides (romantic love in this case) his redemption arc isnt as impactful, he had EVERYTHING to loose and nothing to gain when he joined the gaang which is why it was so effective.

this type of argument from antis is so annoying because it doesn't even make sense. katara isn't zuko's "something to gain" and it feels like a poor attempt to give zutara a similar level of "trophy" as the "hero gets the girl" trope. zuko switched sides because of his own change in heart. this is a quote from the day of Black sun:

No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. People around the world are terrified of the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.

this is not "i'm joining team avatar because i think katara is attractive and i want to be with her."

zuko and katara's relationship (canonically friends) is not predicated on obligation, so this anti argument doesn't make sense. in TSR, he asks what he can do to make it up to her and she gives him an IMPOSSIBLE task -- effectively saying that she will never forgive him. He isn't "gaining" anything because he had to earn her friendship/respect; it's why he was so shocked when she hugged him at the end of TSR. although, there is a ship that does have obligation written into it canonically - (nodding at "avatar's girl for example), but we never hear y'all antis bring ts up.

a potential romantic!zutara relationship would come after his redemption arc; and it doesn't make sense to retroactively trivialize the growth that he went through to get to that place.

also these arguments always feel disingenious because you would never catch these antis saying that zukka would erase zuko's redemption arc. like, we can't even keep consistency.

[pokidokieships]

What if I said the sudden hate and vitriol towards zutara in recent years is linked to the rise in conservatism… stay with me now… I can’t help but notice it because of the arguments I see such as “Water Tribe & Fire Nation can never be together… it’s way better that Mai & Zuko are married as they are both Fire Nation” or “It’s fine that Katara is a stay at home mom & healer… it doesn’t matter that she doesn’t play a pivotal role, go on to do anything great after the war…”

[livelovelingwen]

Hot take: Aang hate is forced atp

Some of yall talk about a kid like he's the devil or sum

[sokkastyles]

I actually don't see the screenshot saying Aang's the devil.

What I see is:

1) Implying he will go into the Avatar State if a girl doesn't return his affections (already implied by the show)

2) Implying that he values Katara as only a potential girlfriend and not as a friend (already implied by the show)

[livelovelingwen]

Disclaimer: this is long, badly explained, and I repeat myself. If something comes off as agressive, please tell me, this was not my intention.

"If I hadn't blocked my chakra, I'd probably be in the Avatar State right now!"

Out of context, it could sound like Aang is upset about Katara and that he's saying he'd enter the Avatar State if a girl doesn't return his feelings. The problem is that in context, it's more than that.

First, in The Ember Players episode, Aang was already upset with the play before the whole "the Avatar?, he's like a brother to me" scene, because he disliked the way he was portrayed. But then, in addition the play also brings up his uncertainty about Katara's feelings, so he leaves. What I mean to say here it's that his response to Katara with the "I'd probably be in the avatar state" it's not just because the play implies that his feelings are unrequited.

If someone wants to argue the line is awkward or that the writers shouldn't have put it like that, that's fair criticism, not saying the oposite.

"We kissed at the invasion, and I thought we were gonna be together."

You say that it would imply that Aang only values Katara as a potential girlfriend.

But for me, it shows that: Aang has romantic feelings for Katara, he wished that the Invasion kiss could mean they were moving toward a relationship, and he wants clarification because he's confused.

But none of that inherently means he doesn't value her friendship. Aang having feelings for Katara doesn't automatically means that he can't consider her a friend, platonic love and romantic love can coexist.

You can absolutely criticize the way Aang handles the conversation in that episode, (especially the kiss at the end when Katara told her she was confused) That's a valid and common criticism, even among people who like Aang. But "he wants clarification about their romantic status" and "he only sees her as a potential girlfriend" are two completely different claims.

But more importantly

My post was about people who constantly villainize Aang, and I accompanied it with an image of someone saying that Aang is a 'nice guy', which implies that his kindness isn't sincere and that his behavior towards Katara has just ulterior motives.

Aang does have flaws, but saying that he's secretly a "nice guy? For me a "nice guy" refers to someone who fakes kindness (to girls most of the time) just in hope to have a romantic relationship with a girl. It's someone who believes kindness entitles him to romance and only acts this way to people he considers potential partners.

But Aang is a sincerely kind character, he sees good in people, even showing empathy to enemies, which can become a  character flaw.

He does gets frustrated, insecure at times, and handles some situations poorly and I don't say people can't criticize him, but my point was that there are people who interpret all his mistakes in the worst way possible and conclude that he'sa bad person.

Again, this is a fandom, so people should have the right to criticize the characters of pieces of media. But I feel like Aang gets a lot of hate for a lot less then other characters, like the same standards are not applied to him. His flaws are exaggerated and then presented as his sole character instead of being just a part of his character.

That's why I made the og post. And my comment "Some of yall talk about a kid like he's the devil or sum" was not meant to come off as a way to excuse all his actions and errors because he's a kid. It wasn't meant to argue that Aang is a flawless character, it was more of a sort of vent post because i don't understand why some fandom interpretations portray Aang in a  such negative way, with takes that are like "Aang is a 'nice guy' who only sees Katara as a prize." or the "Aang just used Katara to have children"

[sokkastyles]

I think it's good that you've changed your tune, but your original post did NOT come across as a reasonable counter argument and did not get across that you think people are allowed to critique Aang, it came across as a hate post. You screenshot a post that made a valid critique and then stated that that person was saying Aang was the devil.

I also will push back against your arguments because Katara not returning his feelings WAS a huge part of why he hated the play. Throughout it, he reacts angrily whenever the play implies that Katara does not love him, not just in one scene, and nods when the Zuko actor says that Katara is "the Avatar's girl." That definitely implies the entitlement you've described above associated with the Nice Guy.

It's also wrong to say Nice Guys are faking being nice and therefore Aang can't be one. A lot of guys like this actually believe they are genuinely being nice and that is what makes them believe they deserve a girl's love. While it is true that this behavior is anything but nice, it is counter productive to focus on how nice the guy is, because the point is that niceness does not earn you access to a woman's body, and as we established, Aang DOES think that Katara should be his. Aang DOES nod at the statement that Katara is "the Avatar's girl." Aang DOES get angry when the play implies that he is happy with being just friends with Katara. Aang DOES demand to know when Katara will be his girlfriend and kisses her without her consent when she does not give him the answer he wants.

So I think the screenshot is pretty accurate, and behavior like this deserves to be criticized. Aang may believe he is genuinely a nice guy, but he doesn't really value Katara's friendship and his behavior hurts her when she doesn't become his girlfriend because he wants her to.

Think about this from Katara's perspective. A guy that you thought was your friend makes it clear to you that your friendship is not enough for him and interrogates you asking why you aren't his girlfriend, and blames you for the things an oversexed actress onstage does. Then your friend kisses you without your consent and violates your stated boundary. Doesn't seem very nice, does it?

It's also not very nice to make hate posts about zutara shippers, screenshot their posts, say that their opinions are forced and that they're calling a character the devil, and then say that your "intention" was not to come off as aggressive. Yes it was. You just thought it was okay to dehumanize and attack people for criticizing a fictional character.

[tea-and-la]

to add onto what sokkastyles has beautifully said, we also can't ignore the influence of the adult male creators as well as other scenes in the show. specifically the scene where the prisoners tell aang verbatim that he is a nice guy and that katara will come around. the best way for the show to prove that aang was okay with being "just friends" with katara would've been after EIP (and an apology), but of course, instead, the narrative thinks it's enough to just have katara initiate the finale kiss with no dialogue.

[thesehalcyondays]

Book 3 | That painful moment when we saw Zuko and Katara reach for the other from their POV *sob*

[te-al-latte]

I just realized something, you see, I love the fact that Zuko jumped in front of lightning for Katara cause it shows how Zuko is as a person, not because of the implication of Zutara or whatever. Yes, it’s a beautiful scene, and it shows how strong their friendship has grown. It shows Zuko’s selflessness. But let’s say it wasn’t Katara, like maybe it was Toph or Sokka or even Suki, will Zuko do the same? A 100% yes. He’d do it without thinking, because that’s just how Zuko is.

You know what’s the best part about the Agni Kai that screams ZUTARA? It’s these; Zuko reaching out for Katara even with all the pain he’s in and Katara reaching for him in desperation even with Azula on the offensive.

From a storytelling/storyboarding perspective, these frames show that they were each other’s priorities even in the midst of the chaos. 

[themoonandhersun]

the way zuko’s hand is shaking from the pain but he’s still reaching out to her. katara’s hand coated in water ….. ofc it’s to fight against azula- but also? you just know she wanted to heal him right then and there …. oh my zutara☹️

[tea-and-la]

i feel like her hand was coated bc she saw he was hurt and *forgot* azula was there and that there was a whole agni kai going on bc wanted to immediately get to him. her hand doesn’t look like it’s preparing to waterbend but then she has to cause azula snaps her back to reality. 😅

[demaparbat-hp]

Looking (dis)honorably