Mattie Larson The Skating Lesson Interview (x)
The interview is almost two hours long so I took notes and thought I’d highlight the interview. Highlighted what I thought were the most interesting points, but it was a great interview overall.
With Galina since she was about 6
Her gym burned down and galina moved w 12 gymnasts to start her own gym
Galina scared Mattie from the beginning
Galina called Mattie Matilda because Mattie was not the name of a champion
AOGC trained ballet every Saturday with galina at first and then later on a Russian
She was the first person who told Mattie she could go far and become a champion
When she got to third grade gymnastics started to become a job for her
Not pointing her toes wasn’t an option, it was a natural thing
Galina liked them to be creative with dance and play around with choreography
Galina was in a better mood pre Artur
Artur came around when she was 11 and became co owner
Artur and galina fed off each other’s negative energy
Artur used to be National bars coach
Bars was Mattie’s weakness, she was as proud of her 4th place on bars as her 1st on floor in 2010 nats
She freaked out before performances and had to water down her routines at meets
Her last routine she trained on bars was front stalder 1/1 + chow + pak, Maloney, stalder 1/1 + hindorff + bail, stalder shoot, tkachev, dismount...Never competed
Floor was her favorite, she used to dance, hip hop African jazz, she had an alter ego on floor
AOGC diet: no specific diet but given weird advice, just suck on a lemon before you compete, that’s what I did and I was good, not allowed to eat during seven hour practice, hide in bathroom and locker room and eat
Mattie wouldn’t eat all day and started taking laxatives, afraid to drink too much water, went home and ate three meals
Her weight fluctuated a lot, when she lost a lot of weight she could barely get through routines but galina and artur told her she looked great keep it up
She thinks she was a good gymnast, but wonders how good she could’ve been if she didn’t feel like she was on the verge of passing out every day
Would talk cry and laugh with her teammates about how the coaches treated them
She didn’t know any other way since she’d been with them so long - told herself “it’s temporary, if u wanna be a good gymnast, you have to go through crazy coaches and one day it’s over”
It’s not like she was looking around the ranch wishing she could be with another coach
Started at the ranch when she was 10 in tops, once when she was 11
When she was 12 Artur was on national staff but also coaching AOGC, so he sent footage to Marta saying I have this girl who I think can make it
Marta invited her and she just started going consistently since then
Had a hard time staying at the ranch during tops, was crying and a chaperone/camp counselor was there consoling her
Had never been to camp and she was super excited thinking tops was gonna be like the parent trap camp lmaooo
Difference between camp and gym: the break time w family, could pick what she wanted for dinner and watch tv; vs cold cabin, water smells like rotten eggs, bad food
Two a day practices w 9, 10, 11 year olds combined around six hours a day, very serious, not a lot of smiling or laughing, treated like they were on the national team already
2004 quad- They used to write down EVERY mistake you made- not for Mattie, but someone’s coach wrote down in a book when they practiced So and so is fat today, X is a lazy bitch
Marta has dooming presence, she would just look around, it was serious, a lot of tears overworking
Mattie has blocked the ranch out of her head, she looks back and remembers it but doesn’t even feel like it happened to her, it happened to someone else
Marta likes to see numbers: how many vaults can you do in 40 minutes, just go go go, not smart training just quantity
Marta didn’t really coach her, just pointers here and there, scare tactics are what made people good, if I survive this I can do anything
Mattie was favorable in Marta’s eyes, if they weren’t she wouldn’t even bother to learn their names
During lineups she would talk one on one and grab faces, good job/bad job, she would talk longer with ones she liked and move on from ones she didn’t care about and be like “ok...”
In 2008 before trials she gave an interview saying she didn’t mind missing out on school because all of her friends were at the gym
She looks back on that interview and doesn’t know why she said that, it wasn’t true, it’s just what good gymnasts say, it was a learned response even though nobody told her to say it
Mattie didn’t think she was viable for 08, she had minimal international experience, wasn’t consistent enough for her, Marta said so herself
Goal was to hit her routines and make to selection camp, knew she wasn’t going to make it even if she hit all her routines (which she did)
2008 was her goal as a kid
Her and Sam peszek were more or less up for the same spot, they had very similar strengths
They were hoping they would have a bar worker come in and save them like Sloan or Worley
Final camp: closed doors, 11 from trials, 6+3 alternates, her and Chelsea Davis were the only people that didn’t get spots
Everyone was injured or in pain in some way
Artur made Mattie go up to Marta because she was crying (she had a stress fracture) and say I can’t compete (post camp, pre selection) I’m too injured, even though she didn’t want to tell Marta
She believes Artur didn’t think she was going to make alternate, so instead of getting fired, let’s resign
He was upset because she wasn’t good at pretending she wasn’t in pain, may or may not have factored into her placement or rather lack thereof, but doesn’t think she would’ve made it anyway
Even if she could’ve been alternate, that’s not what artur wanted
Hung out w Chelsea Davis, corrie, just happy to have made it there, Can’t really speak for relationships among the more seasoned girls
Doesn’t believe there were any mind games among girls
Rooming with some girls can affect you, Sam Shapiro was extremely distracting, asked the person putting people together to put her with someone else and he told Artur that artur needed to get his gymnasts in line
Shawn was rooming with Sam Shapiro another time and complained and shawn got her own room
Post Olympic selection: defeated but didn’t take her long to turn around, took five days off and was back in the gym, didn’t think about how hard four years of elite would be bc she’d only been on national team for two years
Underlying competition with Sam Shapiro when they started competing together but never anything sinister just a little more tense
09 verification, last day last event
Change in COP no more lunges, you have to stick everything or you get a deduction
New camp rule: after you verify, you have to stick two passes of your choice
Mattie was pretty sure she was gonna make 09 worlds team
Verified floor, stuck Arabian double front, wanted to do it again, artur said it’s a little dangerous let’s do 2 1/2 punch front layout
When Mattie goes really hard on a pass it’s hard to do an easier pass for her bc of the momentum
She agrees to do what he says bc Marta is waiting, overrotated 2 1/2, gets lost in the air and lands w her feet sickled, and punched into the layout like that and her feet just gave out
Bounced off her head, heard a crack, both feet dangling dislocated, went to hospital for x rays, which went straight to Larry, doesn’t remember a doctor looking at them, they said she was fine, her feet looked scary gross and didn’t get wrapped
They had another day at the ranch of training and you can’t just be there not doing anything so she sat with her feet up doing arm curls trying to look busy
Mattie was happy because she was doing well, people were already wanting her to get agent representation and endorsements
At worlds she was scared, ranch training was not going well, galina said she wouldn’t make the team like that, Mattie says she didn’t think it was going badly, but galina wanted her to be perfect, there were little mistakes but matties neurosis got in her head because of comments like that
Her whole mindset changed from that, she wasn’t able to let it go, she internalized comments like that, destroyed her confidence, told herself she didn’t deserve to be there and that her training wasn’t going as well as she thought it had and it kind of just broke her down, lots of second guessing, losing lots of weight and feeling weaker
Championships mindset: you got this, do your best and you’ll win
vs Worlds: I don’t know, I really don’t know, this is the biggest competition I’m ever going to go to, lots of pressure from her mom, there was a lot on the line
Serious consideration for going pro, her mom was a gym mom and really wanted her to go pro, dad wanted her to maintain amateur status and go to college
Parents were separated in 08, but lived in the same house, gymnastics and money played a huge part, not a great home life 08-11
Lineup for worlds: original alternate was Chelsea Davis, then they swapped her in for Bridget as alternate and then switched again right before submitting final team lineups
It’s a game, keep you on your toes, if you’re not hitting you’re replaceable
The team didn’t know that Russia was ‘the team to beat’
“That poor girl was just always always so injured” -Mattie on Rebecca Bross lmaooo
Prelims didn’t go great for her but she was consistent for the most part with only a big mistake in her floor routine
During her interviews she was dying inside and straight up lying saying everything was going to be ok
Debate of Bridget vs Mattie on floor in team finals: Mattie was v inconsistent on floor
Marta said at this point ur not in finals so you have to prove u can do it, and Mattie swore “I can do it I can do it.... and I didn’t lol”
Mentally: everything is riding on this, and I made a promise, I’m not doing anything else in this competition, I missed out aa and individual ef, this is it
Mattie was just nervous and shaking inside
Worlds only 1 or 2 coaches on the floor at once, needed a heavy spot on the double layout in warmup, in competition she had enough adrenaline to get through, artur told mihai she needs a lot of lift in practice, she can’t say if it was on purpose but in practice mihai backed off her and didn’t even touch her while spotting
They start to discuss that mihai wasn’t a friend to coaches, Mattie can’t speak for that but he wasn’t a friend to her ‘in that damn moment’
She already hadn’t made individual finals, it was just for team so she doesn’t understand why he wouldn’t do it for the team
Doesn’t want to talk bad about mihai bc Mattie loves aly but she just didn’t have a good experience
Team finals: morning practice, warmups before competition, then compete time - all she had was a triangle of a toblerone bar after morning training, They had meals and Mattie just didn’t eat
She was so scared to get off the podium, Mattie’s own coach’s reaction was worse than Marta’s
She anticipated Marta’s ignorance because she’d seen it before w other girls, she didn’t talk to her the rest of the trip, ef, aa, men’s finals, they continue to train on those days as well
Artur shrugged his shoulders w nothing to say, they were so upset and disappointed that they didn’t know how to act
Girls were talking to her when they were in their rooms, they went out one night and had a good time but when coaches were around she couldn’t look like she was enjoying herself, she had to look like she had mourned her mistake
Felt like her hair was cute the way she had bangs highlights etc, they watched boys compete after her mistake and Mattie let her hair down, and galina took her aside and told her she had no right to wear her hair like that, put it up, she couldn’t even want to feel cute
They got a per diem to buy things, galina told her she didn’t deserve the pet diem for the trip
Mattie didn’t know Galina was going to be at worlds, and appeared to be excited she was there even though she didn’t like her
Mattie says Galina is better than Artur, perhaps because of their history, she did have a heart but was scary
She spent time at her house growing up and was close with her daughter, she went out to her first party ever with her daughter
Artur brought out the worst in galina
No recollection of the plane ride home
Artur left Mattie at the airport after worlds, her sister had to come pick her up
She took a few days off practice and was continued to be ignored
If she wanted to continue gymnastics she thought she would have to switch gyms, and they all turned her down
Karolyis used to steal gymnasts but discouraged that behavior as authority in order to keep harmony
Went to kelly hill and legacy elite, they said the same thing artur wants to keep training you, you need to go back and give him more time
She had to go back to aogc, hardly anything was said, she sat there crying and artur said are you ready to start training again and that was it, no discussion or apology
There options weren’t much better it didn’t matter because they were all saying the same thing
Mattie went to camp again and it was just different, she still wanted 2012
She never said she was done w her, but Marta didn’t watch her in training, never gave her talks, stopped showing interest in her training at home
Marta gave her a chance and she failed, and that was it, there were other gymnasts, she didn’t care
Things weren’t the same at her home gym at the ranch, it was just uncomfortable
She quit elite by asking her mom to stop at the gas station to get a Gatorade on the way to practice and she just started running
She was emotionally rejuvenated, in college away from parents who hate each other
Dad was cutting music for UCLA, mom wanted her to go anywhere else bc she thought her dad was having an affair w miss Val
Her mom was DEVASTATED about being done with elite, always comforting no matter how well she did, but thought it was just a bump in the road, the olympics is a year away don’t stop keep going
She ran out of motivation, didn’t care, was showing up to practice hung over, partying all the time, physically over it, wasn’t treating her body well, depressed, taking laxatives, didn’t care how she was doing in the gym, just happy to have a life
Feels bad about how her collegiate career turned out, she was number one recruit in her class, but she was just done
Competed bars and beam, couldn’t get through floor because she was out of shape and when she did compete she had big errors
Multiple meltdowns, not medically retired, paid for two quarters of school, got medical retirement for senior year, dropped out of school, was in a bad place, didn’t think she was going to graduate
Val spoke to athletic department, said I believe in you and think you can graduate, knew paying for it would be hard and she got a delayed medical retirement
Finally started seeing a therapist, told people about her laxative abuse, felt hopeful about people caring about her as a person not a gymnast
Dramatic leave, couldn’t step in the gym, didn’t have the words to say it
Doesn’t know about mckayla’s lawsuit at all, sued them separately
Marta was fighting to say mattie was her coaches responsibility, and the coaches are fighting to say vice versa, her lawyer said sue them both then since they’re both saying their at fault
They proved that Artur and Galina were the adults in charge that were responsible for her safety at the ranch
Sat through deposition and Mattie saw them for the first time since aogc, initially she was panicked, but realized she had nothing to be afraid of
Artur said there was no alcohol at the ranch, galina said Mattie was always their favorite gymnast and they never did anything wrong
Mattie and mckayla were friendly, Mattie was initially the favorite and mckayla became the favorite when she came in, mckayla looked up to her as someone who was a little older and been through a little more
Mckayla came to aogc already able to do the amanar, the technique didn’t come from aogc, they didn’t do much
She doesn’t keep in touch with the shapiros, not on bad terms necessarily
She recalls watching a mckayla interview when she first came to prominence talking about how great life was and how she as all her friends with her and thinking about how unhappy she actually was
Nassar Volunteered for national staff, wasn’t getting paid, red flag
Knew his hands were going inside of her, but she believed it was a legit treatment, told herself she wasn’t being molested it’s just a weird kind of treatment
She was already being abused at camp by Marta and her coaches, and Larry was being nice - the bar was low, all he had to do was give candy
He was socially awkward, didn’t spend a lot of time talking to adults, on his own or with the girls, while coaches were drinking and partying he was ‘treating’ them and being nice and talking to them; questioning about whether or not coaches were in on it, chalks it up to inabilities to see red flags
Never talked to teammates about treatments
Realized she was abused in 2016, an old teammate called her about Rachael denhollanders article about Larry, called the girl back and it was pretty silent, and they like kinda clicked together and everything made sense
Overlooked injuries: mckayla maroney, 2012 nationals 3 1/2 twist, continues training, competes two weeks later, unsafe, Marta liked him because he was a doctor signing off on girls as being safe when they were injured
Marta had a doctors approval and escaped blame for allowing gymnasts to compete injured
Mattie’s bias says Marta knew what was happening, she knew he was going into rooms with them alone, spending time with them, lenient with injuries, she cant say she knows for fact because she’s not in her head
The 08 quad girls seemed to come out unscathed: If you weren’t a Nastia you had to see him whether you felt ok or not
If you had the best gymnasts in the world you would think they would get a certified doctor and pay for one maybe
Originally wasn’t going to testify, decided two days before she would, didn’t sleep the night before and wrote her thoughts down, very therapeutic, wrote it like it was a journal entry, the first time she was proud of herself for something in a long time
She was still trying to find her identity as someone who isn’t a gymnast or a former gymnast, before that she had only felt proud in competition related situations, the first time in a while she felt powerful
Mattie is happy that the culture is changing and girls are able to speak their mind
Matties view of the sport:
What gymnasts do is impressive, the hardest sport out there
Doesn’t enjoy watching anymore
Finds enjoyment doing little things like handstands and walks
Doesn’t even like yoga because it reminds her of gymnastics stretching
Loves dance, did krav muga(?) she just needed to punch the shit out of something
Wishes gymnastics was different, like football or basketball, could make a living and didn’t have to give up college eligibility, but recognizes gymnasts peak at different ages
Wishes there weren’t as many creepy people weren’t involved
She’s done using her body for a living in anything physically demanding
Her views on gymnastics are confusing and still changing: she couldn’t watch anything before and now she can watch and appreciate simones gymnastics
Still doesn’t love it, doesn’t want kids to do it if she has kids
Looks back at her younger self and what she could do and says how and why
what should happen in abusive situations:
In her perfect ideal world, USAG starts from scratch without worrying about gold medals and being the best country and the olympics, recalibrate the sport, would love it to be strictly recreational without a national team
You don’t need to torture yourself and try to be one of the .0001% of all the gymnasts that get to the Olympic team
There are gymnasts who are not household names that have lifelong trauma
“Punish them all. I don’t care.”
Parents feel guilt, Mattie doesn’t blame her parents at all, Mattie feels hurt that her mom worked reception at aogc and didn’t step in when she should have because she thought Mattie could be a Star, she feels sad that her dad tried to rationalize with artur a few times and it ended in a screaming match that got nowhere and he felt like he couldn’t step in the gym again, yet felt it was ok to continue sending her there
They’re able to talk about it and Mattie recognizes that there’s a struggle to find a balance for a child prodigy between pushing them to be the best but also keeping them safe as a kid
There’s no handbook or rules to be happy healthy and successful
Working as dental assistant and voice actor
Is still finding herself but enjoying it as she is, gymnastics was always her thing, and she feels like she might be searching for ‘her thing’ for the rest of her life
Texts miss Val on and off checking in on each other
Talks to Aly a lot, lot of love there
Keeps in touch with mckayla here and there
Slowly but surely letting gymnastics back in because she appreciates what the girls do and what she did and how hard it is, she just wishes it were different
She feels good, solid and ok.
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