the concept of he-man not having a love interest and she-ra being raised with her soulmate. they’re already at the opposite ends of the pronouns spectrum, wym they’re also at the opposite ends of the dating spectrum

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the concept of he-man not having a love interest and she-ra being raised with her soulmate. they’re already at the opposite ends of the pronouns spectrum, wym they’re also at the opposite ends of the dating spectrum
nirvanna the band the backrooms… i want to put these two guys in a situation.
when jay stumbles into the backrooms first, he doesn’t really know what to do (he was on the couch trying to reach for a soda on a side table, and his hand phased into the wall). after many jumps between the outside world into the backrooms, he barely thinks of grabbing an item from the backrooms to take with him as proof that it wasn’t some dream.
but what does he take? what are features of the mattjay household that would stay after many memory iterations? could it be a key from the piano? a childhood picture or poster that isn’t quite right? a tape for a movie that’s so low-quality it might as well not work??
jay spends a long time in the backrooms until he meets backrooms!matt. he’s taller than real matt. his hat is bigger, his muscles are oddly distributed everywhere (buff arms and legs remembered from their wrestling matches, he has a big stomach bc jay doesn’t truly understand how much matt exercises to offset his binge eating, and his jeans are basically four strips of fabric hanging from a belt. after the skydome plan, jay really sees matt’s suicidal tendencies shine through (more than after the both hanging prank…). backrooms!matt is always running towards jay but never hurts him (he turns left at the last second and runs into the wall hard enough to bleed or break a bone, he runs directly into floor entrances to other rooms, etc). he Does hurt the other backrooms-made people because nobody’s allowed to be close to jay.
idk if jay would want to stay or leave. i think maybe what would attract him to stay is the weird versions of musical instruments he finds. pianos with multiple layers of keys (like an organ), weird mashups of instruments like a melodica, a contrabass guitar that reminds him of when he was shrunk down during “the book”… eventually he leaves and honestly forgets everything (the pillow he took fell behind the couch, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ whatever)
matt is another story!
he gets really excited about finding the backrooms and wants to pull jay into them so that they could explore together! he tells himself he’s committing everything to memory, and jay doesn’t believe him, but somehow, matt IS a great tour guide through the backrooms.
he only really gets upset by the backrooms!jay. the creature is loud (always singing or playing the small keyboard attached to his hands), and it crawls everywhere. it almost looks scared, like touching something would mess up its long hair, hurt his big nose, or stain his blazer.
the duo don’t realize that the backrooms are based on one or both of their memories, so they decide to leave, forget about the needy homunculus jay they saw together, and put a tall bookshelf in front of the portal to the backrooms :)
wrastling
You and i are gunna have a nice, happy life together → inspired by @furnacecrow's fanvid & not the same by @nothingbutchaff & this post
i think jay should transition, in viceland at least (continued below)
big picture: a lot of jay’s character in viceland revolves around lacking agency and autonomy. yes, she and matt are both trapped in their time-/feedback loop where they never have to change in any meaningful way or confront real problems outside of each other, but matt’s role is as a decision maker and someone who gets shit done; jay’s role is playing support to and being directed by matt. furthermore, matt likes their time-/feedback loop. jay does as well, of course, but she has more of a foot in reality, she has more of a want to leave the situation. regardless, she ends up returning to it over and over again.
extrapolation on big picture: jay lets matt set the pace in all interactions. even when she comes up with a plan it’s either commandeered by matt (‘the boy’) or replaced by something matt came up with (the burger’), and she seems mostly fine with this. when she wants to get away from matt, she chooses him anyway (‘the buddy’, ‘the buffet’, etc.), when matt does something that genuinely strikes a nerve, she chooses him anyway (‘the boost’, ‘the big time’, etc.). even their dynamic as a band, of course, is based around matt setting the pace for jay, and critically (and this is what i’m getting at here) this is something that she excels at and enjoys doing. when jay gets self conscious or wants to break away from matt it’s usually not because of something matt specifically has done (movie not withstanding, in this scenario), it usually comes from her internally (being obsessed with being cool in ‘the blindside’, the entire. i guess i’ll call it the job arc? in s2), it's less conscious hate of their circumstances and more the feeling she should be above this.
case study: i think it's pretty clear that matt and jay's clothing is supposed to mirror each other (conjectural, but also look at them). that's just good character design. a couple things about this: (a) matt's outfit is at once kind of slapdash and also meant to be representative of peacocking/pickup artistry. jay's outfit is a poor imitation of someone else's performance of masculinity - she isn't even doing the whole peacocking thing right, whether that be from genuine ineptitude or a need to be look more normal compared to matt. and (b) as her outfit is more solidified in viceland and pickup artistry as it was represented in 2007 isn't really a thing anymore (rendering both her and matt as just looking kind of dumb and out of place), it takes on more of the "kid dressing up as and pretending to be an adult" quality as we know matt and jay to possess. in any case, the outfit - jay's outfit - is meant to represent someone trying to be someone they're not and doing a bad job. more than that, despite looking more normal than matt's outfit, it's still out of place in daily life. it's still a blazer with elbow patches that she's wearing every day of her life including in her own home; and for what? because it matches matt? or because she genuinely thinks it's something she needs to look sophisticated or charismatic?
case study ii: 'the buddy' is really the first time in viceland where matt and jay are separated (or jay believes they're separated, whatever) for a substantial amount of time, and i think it's really interesting to analyze how jay acts towards other people on her own. mainly, i’m thinking of her approaching a guy talking to two girls and going “so, which one are you going for?” a couple things about this: (a) this is the first interaction we focus on at the party itself, ergo there's emphasis put upon it. (b) this is not anything viceland jay would say. in webseries women and sex were more pressing concerns for them, but not in viceland where they’re completely locked into getting a show at the rivoli. a lot of people joke that viceland matt and jay “don’t know what sex is” and i’ll put my thoughts on those jokes aside because it kind of literally is true. it’s a completely sexless show, mostly because it’s supposed to capture this idea of their eternal childhood feedback loop. even when we see someone’s dick or ass or whatever it’s completely devoid of sex; it’s juvenile. so, all to say, viceland jay making a comment like this is incredibly out of place. it’s juvenile, yes, but it calls to mind sex and masculinity (the idea that the only reason you, as a man, would talk to a woman is to have sex with her) so brazenly that it’s odd. and (c) well, why is jay saying this then. jay doesn’t really talk to other people on her own. when matt’s there, he’s the one that talks to the other party, and even when jay does speak in these situations it’s usually to matt. she’s also, like, really bad at talking and communicating in general, but that's besides the point.
synthesis from case studies (compiled w/ big picture): there's two big points here, intertwined with each other. i'll go over them both.
jay is imitating matt and either doesn't like it, is indifferent to it, or maybe even completely unaware she's doing it. this one's pretty obvious, again, look at them. i think you could even argue that "which one are you going for?" is an attempt to act like matt and say something transgressive. now, jay imitating matt makes sense, as i've said before their entire relationship is matt setting the pace for jay, but i've mentioned it with the added context of jay enjoying that. why would i say here that jay imitating matt is something neutral or negative? i've talked about inaction as degendering before (even as your inaction leads you to perform tasks we associate with a specific gender) and i think it occurs here as well. jay is not someone who makes choices for herself, she is not someone who wants to make choices for herself. matt is already a model for her in so much of her life, but obviously can't be in every facet of her life. whether or not you feel that matt is someone confident in his masculinity or confident being a man at all is ultimately secondary to the fact that jay views him as confident and extroverted and capable. jay is, like, 1000x less of a real person that matt is - she can't swear uncensored, she's gets way more infantilized from webseries to viceland - of course she'd look up to him, not even as man, but as an actual human being. despite this, any attempts to model herself after matt are unmitigated failures: her outfit sticks out like crazy, it's clear that she's pretending to be something she's not; whenever she tries to talk to people or come across as confident, it fails hard. she's not good at being the standard she has for being a man.
jay feels the need to perform masculinity when she's outside of her relationship to matt and, more broadly, she views her relationship with matt as somewhere where she can/is "allowed to" slot into the role of a woman (or, rather, the role of woman as viewed by matt and jay). this one's kind of the crux of the whole thing, and i hope it doesn't take too much to see what i'm getting at here. jay already has a reputation in the fandom for being a princess, for sitting back and letting matt do the work, and of course i've already mentioned several times that she does enjoy being directed by matt, regardless of whether or not she puts up a fight about it. every time she acts outside of this role (out of character), it's brought on by external circumstances, either by her getting to view the dynamic as an outsider or by stepping out of the dynamic entirely. i find it so interesting that when jay gets put down and starts seeing herself as uncool, she feels she needs to over correct and cosplay (literally and metaphorically!) as a hypermasculine renegade to prove she is cool. i find it so interesting that when away from matt for the first time in a while and forced to make decisions on her own, she feels the need to be The Most Straight Man Possible to the first person she talks to. i find it so interesting that in the world where she and matt drifted apart, she's a masculine sex symbol (again, in a piece of media where sex isn't all too important). and with all of those examples, we are meant to see these occurrences as wrong, as bad endings, or as times where jay feels uncomfortable. this isn't to say her relationship with matt is perfect even if it's something jay really likes and prefers to existing in the real world. it's unsustainable when the narrative calls for it, but more importantly matt is fucking batshit. matt constantly embarrasses jay, or puts her in danger, or actively manipulates her. this isn't me doing a callout post for a fictional character (i like matt just fine, thank you, and i think it's funny when jay thinks she's going to get shot, thank you), it's me saying the relationship has major downsides that come from specifically from jay letting matt do whatever he wants with and to her, and jay keeps ending up in these situations, either because she doesn't want to make choices for herself, or because she wants to remain in her relationship with matt and will do whatever she can to do so.
in essence i guess i'm saying that jay gets to microdose on being a woman in her relationship with matt, but it's scary and misogynistic.
regarding the doylist perspective: for one, real life jay mccarrol is (i mean, as far as i know, unless something really cool happens or is happening) a cis man. ergo, the character jay mccarrol is intended to be presented as and played like a cis man as well. for two, zapruder films projects but especially ntbts are wholly unconcerned with women as characters. it was bad in webseries where women featured comparatively more prominently; it is not better in viceland where women do not feature at all. misogyny is baked into it, intentionally and not, as it is with any piece of art made by men. even points i've drawn upon as being in favor of this reading are based on misogynistic ideas present in text. while i don't believe the intention in a lot of the content of ntbts is designed to emasculate jay in the same way a lot of transmisogynstic jokes/narratives typically do, emasculation is still at play - that's still shorthand they're using. compared to matt, we are meant to read jay as more feminine, and this absolutely extends to negative traits he has as well. furthermore, some things that happen to jay become very pointed when i say ‘this is a character that can be read as transfem’ (jay’s whole penis being exposed to everyone on accident, jay’s character in the ‘operation avalanche’ short film), and while the shows general attitude about comedy and what it thinks is funny contribute to that, those are things that only get cast in a bigoted light due to a reading i as an outsider am producing. as i discuss a transfem reading of jay's character, i run the risk of ignoring stories that have actual transfem characters in them (or, as the case may be, stories that will have characters transition in text), and perpetuating transmisogynstic ideas in order to do so. i think this is a risk that tme people who enjoy transfem readings of canonically male characters take and should be aware of. even so, i don't think readings like this are completely moot or offensive, at least all the time and in every situation. on one hand, authorial intent means very little to me personally, i believe what matters is what's present in text and what an audience can take away from it; on the other hand, i think readings like this are useful. i like to think i haven’t concocted this from nothing and am using evidence found in text to support it, and to that end it’s a way to examine misogynistic/bigoted themes present in the text with a different lens. the show has not made room for this perspective, and yet it haunts so much of the character writing, how is that? why is that? and on a third hand, as with all transfem readings done by tme people it should be handled with respect. i think it’s important to interrogate why you feel a specific way, get a specific ‘vibe’ from a character; and, honestly, i think it’s important for people to consider that with all analysis done for a show that was/is bigoted from the onset, because then you take for granted that the show with two men as the only important and fleshed out characters is giving you gay vibes.
regarding the watsonian perspective: ntbts is a show about doing the same thing over and over again. it's sisyphus, as everyone knows and webweaves and whatevers. the whole show is about getting to play at the rivoli, if they do then the show ends. the whole thing is about matt and jay's dynamic, if the band breaks up then they either have to get back together, or the show ends; if the dynamic gets offset in someway, then it'll return to the status quo, or the show wouldn't be the same anymore. from a doylist perspective, the show can't handle such a dramatic upheaval like jay transitioning or even toying with being a girl, because then it wouldn't be about nirvanna the band anymore, because that's not what they talk about. from a watsonian perspective (which is, allegedly, what i'm supposed to be discussing here), jay can't handle admitting wanting to transition or even toying with being a girl because it could risk changing up her and matt's relationship dramatically, and the band would break up (and, of course, the show would end). matt and jay exist in perpetual childhood where they don't have to deal with anything serious and if they do they can just hug it out. in fact, every time jay tries to change up this dynamic or do anything on her own, she’s punished for it. she tries to dress herself, and her whole penis get exposed; she tries to get a job, and her best friend gets mad at her; she tries to get famous on her own, and then matt fucking dies. to transition, to admit that she wants this extraordinarily big thing for herself (let alone to go forward with it!), would be actually fucking terrifying to her. yes, matt and jay can have their eternal, consistent feedback loop and never need anything but each other and they can love it more than anything, but obviously with that there's pressure to never change anything about it. i don't say all this to say there's not a circumstance where i could see jay transitioning in universe - i think many people could write or think up a million different ways it could happen and have most of them be feasible. i do, however, there's an INSANE uphill climb that has to happen before jay even considers there's something about their dynamic that makes her unhappy, and an even greater one to realize that it's something that she can and is allowed to do something about.
tl;dr: jay mccarrol is really interesting to read as a closeted/unaware trans woman. i hope she transitions or never gets the help she needs and stews in internalized transmisogyny forever. whichever would make more narrative sense to you, the reader, i guess.
pj saying he showed dan and phil ntbts last year and they enjoyed it. this is like the craziest crossover for me
the reason why ntbtstm has had such a devastating impact on me is because of how much it recontextualizes the webseries and the show. i wasn't reading anything queer between those two guys when watching all that (apart from a few key moments that do get a knowing smile outta me) and just on the face of it, i still don't think either show is that deep. but a feature film requires a little more cohesion, a little more integrity than the 'anything goes nothing matters'-ness of the series. they were kinda forced to take a long hard look at what the heart of their show is and build a narrative around that and yeah a lot of times it comes off really gay.
but not in an overt tropey accidentally-said-something-homo way (although. it has to be said matt canonically choosing to be jays no.1 groupie in another life among many other things, is some insane fanfic bullshit but i digress) instead what's happening is a lot more introspective and sincere. opening the film on the webseries intro isn't just context for new audiences and it's not just nostalgia for recurring ones, it establishes that this movie is gonna involve a lot of reflection. the characters are going to be looking at their situation objectively, one they've been cycling through for 20 real life years, and that's gonna stir up some revelations. that's pretty loaded in concept, especially for two guys who've basically committed to being celibate because of the relationship they have with each other. the hangover joke gets a lot of credit for how meta it is and evidently it sparked a lot of humility in millennials by confronting them with just how casual homophobia was in the 00s. it is a great bit and people are right to discuss it the way they do, but on a personal level? for the characters?? it's lowkey sick. this is the time period and society that their relationship as we know it began. it's reflected in how matt used to tease jay for acting too gay and how jay always squirmed under matt's touch. the joke is a commentary on Society™ but this is the society they grew and worked through together. so the fact that it begins with jay reluctantly getting up to leave matt alone, and plays out as a dramatic horror-like reveal with matt being singled out as the only one not laughing at an incredibly homophobic joke, well it's funny but it's lowkey serious too.
peering at their younger selves from a literal closet by itself could be a real weighty piece of storytelling. what's happening is these characters are seeing their innocent, naïve selves with a matured understanding of how their relationship is going to progress and what that means to them. and yeah irl matt and jay like to joke about the old characters being in the closet, the practicality of the shot isn't all that serious. however they are famously now also on record as discussing those secret and embarrassing crushes that are forever left unsaid. so the realities of how this affects the characters isn't lost on them. a lot of the subtext is incidental rather than being meticulously crafted but it still leads up to the same conclusion. these men cannot voice just how important they are to each other, they and the audience can only begin to grasp that by looking at their actions.
it always comes back to the Watching Jay Sleep scene to me. cause obviously that scene exists just so we can have a funny gag where he wakes up and matt has to distract him from the fact that he's from the future. but it would have made a lot more sense if the setup was matt having to steal the orbitz from jay's room and sneak past without disturbing him, imo that would have been more logical and tense from the outset. instead what happens is a lot more suspect. matt fully puts the breaks on a high intensity stealth mission because the sight of jay makes his breath hitch. he leans closer and lingers in the moment because he loves him, loves looking at him. he'd been watching and listening to their younger selves with present day jared and jay all night this wasn't a new look as such, what's different is that this was a private moment. it's self indulgent and dangerous so it's especially shocking for him when he gets caught in the act. caught in the act of time travelling yes that's the bit, but from jay's perspective matt was just watching him sleep, naked and vulnerable. which he literally was, there legitimately isn't any other reason for him to be in that situation- he was on his way out! so while the focus is on the fear of messing with the past timeline, it's an incredibly revealing scene that speaks to a recurring theme that can be felt throughout the film. in the final scene jay looks at him with so much love and excitement and it's just as personal and secretive as how matt looked at him in their old apartment. it's only when the other has their back turned that their defences break down and a sliver of something real slips through. neither realises just how strongly the other feels and they're content to keep it that way as long as it means they can stay together.
Holy fuck he’s so fangs here
big fan of that one shot from Four Wild Swipes where you can actually see Jay decide in real time, completely straight-faced, that he has to physically restrain Matt to prevent his friends from dying in a tragic swiping accident
and i do genuinely think part of why Jay takes the "straight man" role less seriously in the Vice series is that they had other people present on set to make sure they didn't get hurt. in the webseries, i get the impression that that burden was sometimes Jay's and sometimes Jared's, depending on which one of them was feeling responsible that day and which one was willing to let Matt die or kill someone for his art. crucially, this was variable.
Jay's face when Matt first asks him to be in a band, btw. turned away from his proxy Matt, facing the sun, unbothered, basking in the glory of being Matt's bandmate, locked in for life. this is the only time we see Jay in bed with a woman and surprise! it's still about Matt. shocking
no no, bro, it's totally -- it's actually totally normal and hetero to dream about swallowing your best friend whole so you can carry him inside your body and he can never leave you, bro, broooo, be so for real right nowww
Made a chart for sorting fantheories
Jay, I got a feeling things are going to work out okay for us.
Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie (2025) dir. Matt Johnson
imaginary friend
it's wild to think about how jay very much did think there was a possibility that he might watch his best friend inadvertently die in real life for their silly little web show. like that was a thing that actually happened lol. jay had to very seriously consider for a moment that matt could be killed. and he just sat there and solemnly promised matt that he would air an accidental hanging video to an unsuspecting audience like a wife whose husband was being shipped to war, all for the bit. like they are both absolutely insane I stg I don't know if people get how ridiculous they are
not to bring up the simpsons in 2026 but
HOLD UP..... JARED RAAB'S FILMOGRAPHY IS THIS FIRE??
some viewing/download links, with Jared's role in brackets:
Covered (editor, camera, one book credits him for the VO as well)
14.3 Seconds (editor)
Buffalo Death Mask (cinematographer)
haven't been able to find anything else yet but i'll update if/when i do
found descriptions of four more cool projects:
and found some more links!
What Isn't There (editor, SFX, animation)
Road Movie (editor)
Answer the Call (appears on-screen, any other role unclear)