How yall feel bout werewolves
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@vamprisonment
How yall feel bout werewolves
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tragedy enjoyers when a character upholds the system that they themselves were a victim of
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I find this issue pretty prevalent in vtm , but the idea that your character participating/accepting/engaging with ingame propaganda or dubious power structure reflects on you or your character as some sort of gullible/morally bad.
I see this especially when people are mousy about engaging with dubious politics and instead circle around and are like well no my character's completely untouched and above politics and thinks it's all stupid and infighting and points their nose down at anyone else who is playing the political game (the game with load bearing lore justifications for why- ) and it often comes down to the player isn't comfortable having their character genuinely sincerely engage with the setting's narratives of uncomfortable power and survival and are instead morally superior.
I find this unfortunately prevalent with autarkis players that think by not engaging with politics in the political game their character is exempt and above and everyone else is just stupid and not as enlightened about it instead, when like there's a reason, there is a power structure and people partake, it's not this arbitrary inconvenience that people do because they're prissy, like this is a political parlour tabletop that especially younger vampires do not have much options outside of and sure you can homebrew whatever but then like, again. This is ap olitical vampire game, with politics, side stepping core playing theme is like asking why there's combat in dnd.
Okay but THIS exactly. 90% of VTM centers around the politics and its unique social structure, so it feels weird and frankly stupid to try and remove your characters from it— Kinda defeats the point of the game? Even in a real world setting, absolutely no one is above having some sort of political stance. That being said, the politics, regardless of whatever faction you choose, is largely what keeps your characters ‘alive..?’ Agree with it or don’t, but the only reason you’re not ash is because some form of structure is keeping you grounded. Even if your character chooses to stand on the outskirts of it, there’s really just no way to remove them from it fully. If you do, you won’t make it far.
It’s far more interesting to— “hate the game” but to play it to your favor, rather than take this weird morally superior high-horse stance in a world where everyone sucks all the time. If anything, it just makes the character really boring and flat. Have your character make tough choices that directly conflict with their morals! Make them take risks that challenge their understand of the world! Have them do things that they ultimately hate, but must in order to survive or protect the people they love! For the love of God, do anything that isn’t “I’m better than all of you because I don’t pick sides.” Please.
#I’m actually begging#it makes your characters insufferable and boring as fuck#the games politics don’t reflect your own#your character can be a bad person and that’s OKAY#actually make them compelling#please#vtm#vampire the masquerade#world of darkness#thoughts#really good post
I've been playing my "hardline" Camarilla Hardestadt Ventrue as someone who sees the Camarilla for what it is on some level, and still buys into it in the sense that "This is better than the alternative", because he has a childe in the Sabbat. Like my thought process was like how would someone who sees the failings of the system around them and has seen what the fundamental opposite of that is react to any of the things happening currently?
And one of the other PCs is talking about changing the system from the inside and that's why he isn't an anarch, and Arda just tells him "You won't be able to do that, the best you can do is try to shape your life in a way that the system can do less harm to it." Which like, I don't usually play characters that are so aware of the issues around them, but being what he is it felt appropriate. More than that too, even knowing the failings, he DOES buy into the Camarilla. To the point of having a soft spot for thinbloods and telling them to go get branded because he genuinely believes it will help them long-term. Similarly to the point that when he gets stuck with a shit job he doesn't want (coterie Shadow), he takes it with a smile and just starts thinking of ways to move up from it without drawing ire from the Prince. You can treat whatever sect beliefs your vamp subscribes to the way that irl people treat religion, where they interpret things in ways that benefit them if they can get away with it (saying this as a religious person but like let's be real, this is very common).
It falls back on how people want to play any vampire game except vtm and they dont realize it (not the player I mentioned here btw he is lovely, I just mean broadly speaking). People just ignore the political and personal horror and want to play a blood stained love themed chronicle or a different game entirely which is fine but I wish people were honest about that.
what yall are describing sounds like people refusing to engage with the core premise of the game: “your existence as a vampire is predicated on doing harm. now what are you going to do about it?”
and i agree completely! from personal experience, withdrawing from politics can also come from a place of inexperience. my first vampire character was very much out of touch with the grander political machine, because i as the player was brand new and i didn’t know all the ins and outs of it yet.
having said that though, the point of that character was that they needed to have a reckoning with their own capacity for harm. lauchlainn was traumatized, desperate, and hanging all their hopes for healing on trying to go back to how things were before their embrace.
these kinds of apolitical characters CAN be a lot of fun to play (and to play with!) — but only if the player is aware that being “apolitical” is bullshit. it is a comfortable shorthand for remaining blissfully ignorant. this is a personal and POLITICAL horror game. no one gets to sidestep their own complicity.
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I don't know which ST needs to hear this, but remember that NPC has fortitude
One of my favorite things about Vampire Masquerade is the nuance of survival.
I think a lot of people get so wrapped up in playing a powerful bloodsucking vampire that they kinda forget they’ve become an actual parasite. Not just a predator. Everything has a right to survival, but that includes the people you’re hunting. And, by extension, the things hunting you. Your survival is completely dependent on the suffering of others.
A kindred may not have chosen to be embraced, or desire to harm people, but they inevitably will. They must. Regardless of how they feel about it, they now live in a society that not just hunts, but actively exploits and profits from the culling of humanity. As such humans are, naturally, allowed to retaliate and defend themselves: however necessary.
That being said, when measuring the brutality of things; a hunter is no better than a kindred when mercilessly killing every supernatural creature in sight. Likewise, kindred are not exactly martyrs being unfairly targeted for the ‘crime of existing.’ Both have a right to survival, but to survive, there will always exist some level of brutality and unfairness. It’s not evil to want to live - the only evil exists in how you go about living.
One of my favorite things about Vampire Masquerade is the nuance of survival.
I think a lot of people get so wrapped up in playing a powerful bloodsucking vampire that they kinda forget they’ve become an actual parasite. Not just a predator. Everything has a right to survival, but that includes the people you’re hunting. And, by extension, the things hunting you. Your survival is completely dependent on the suffering of others.
A kindred may not have chosen to be embraced, or desire to harm people, but they inevitably will. They must. Regardless of how they feel about it, they now live in a society that not just hunts, but actively exploits and profits from the culling of humanity. As such humans are, naturally, allowed to retaliate and defend themselves: however necessary.
That being said, when measuring the brutality of things; a hunter is no better than a kindred when mercilessly killing every supernatural creature in sight. Likewise, kindred are not exactly martyrs being unfairly targeted for the ‘crime of existing.’ Both have a right to survival, but to survive, there will always exist some level of brutality and unfairness. It’s not evil to want to live - the only evil exists in how you go about living.