uncle iroh is treated very much like a paragon of virtue in the series. yes we know he has had a violent past, that he has done terrible things, committed atrocities in the service of the fire nationā but we donāt really feel it because all of that had happened off screen and prior to the series. instead, he comes to us as a more perfect being and one deified with secret good deeds revealed throughout the story: uncle iroh is the keeper of the dragons and an important member of the white lotus, he is just that awesome.
uncle iroh is so divorced from his immediate past that we donāt see him haunted by any of it unless itās by lu tenā which begs the question: did he really turn his back on the fire nation due to a moral awakening or was it only/mostly for his own good? he certainly doesnāt behave in a manner youād expect from a repentant ex-imperialist: heās not too worried about walking the streets of ba singe se, let alone actually staying there after the war ended. (the same war he participated in on the side of the aggressors, mind you.) he is shameless enough to be living there while hiding away and was unscrupulous in accepting hospitality from earth kingdom folks who were made refugees by the fire nation, i.e., songās family. does he not feel guilty or at least uncomfortable with his circumstances, especially since it has only been 5 or so years since the siege at ba sing se and thus still very fresh in the grand scheme of things? is iroh just that Enlightened and At Peace with his past that it doesnāt color his every movement? or is his lack of a moral hangover just a writing oversight? were they scared to make their most lovable character in a rated TV-Y7 cartoon a tad more polarizing?
while uncle iroh does his job well for the storyā that is, to act as zukoās guiding lightā i do wish he were knocked off his pedestal a bit more. uncle iroh is, after all, the proto-zuko to ozaiās proto-azula. i wish to see him at least slightly paranoid about people recognizing him from his military days and vice versa. i wish to see him uneasy about being in the earth kingdom (out of guilt? as opposed to zukoās superiority complex and anger). i wish to see him meet another person who also has visible burn scars, one that has nothing to do with zuko/his family, and still look away in shame or disgust by the implications. et cetera et cetera. anything to indicate he feels something more about himself and other people that isnāt just Wise Old Man.
I know exactly what you mean, OP. And I think thereās one detail where it all connects.
Itās the other way around.
Iroh is the proto-Azula to Zukoās proto-Ozai.
Iroh and Azula are the favored golden children, far more accomplished due to being exploited for their skills by their fathers but held as heroes for it, would-be conquerors of Ba Sing Se, jolly and quick to make a joke.
Ozai and Zuko are the rejected sons, the scapegoats of their fathers, less accomplished and thus more eager to earn the throne and prove themselves at any cost. Theyāre less prone to humor and more impulsive, likely to rely on their skills rather than form a tactical plan like their siblings theyāre deathly jealous of and want to one-up.
Everything youāve said about Irohās portrayal is true, but I think there may be one explanation. And thatās one that doesnāt play well with the view the audience gets of Iroh as a sage guide in Zukoās life.
Yes, Iroh may be wise and unconditionally loving to Zuko, and he may extend kindness to many others, but that doesnāt mean he is so charitable to everyone.
In fact there is one person whom he has a blind spot for, a negative opinion he doesnāt seem to want to re-examine, a person he condemns and offers no patient redemption or warm tea or kind advice and loving reassurance. There is one person he writes off entirely, even more than he does to Ozai whom he still wishes he could redeem.
Itās his own niece. Azula.
But why? Why is he so unwilling to reach out to her the way he does to Zuko? If he doesnāt think itās too late for even his brother to change, why does he not extend this same grace to the youngest member of his family, the one Ozai has manipulated and become enmeshed with the most, the one who has never been unconditionally loved and desperately needs it?
Because here we see the dark secret of how Iroh lives with his past self.
He doesnāt.
He doesnāt forgive himself. He doesnāt afford his past self any charity or grace or forgiveness at all. Instead he disassociates himself, completely removes those parts of himself, except for when he has to connect to an old war buddy and then only selectively does he admit the parts that arenāt so bad. Music night. Old memories of shenanigans they got up to as soldiers. Never does be want to discuss the horrors he was responsible for. He doesnāt have anything to say to the Earth Kingdom soldiers who capture him and want to take him in to face justice for what heās done.
He looks away.
Just like he did when Zuko got burned.
Itās only when heās at Lu Tenās grave, confronted by the one victim of his past he cannot look away from, that Iroh admits. Iroh apologizes. Iroh weeps.
Itās easy to love Zuko. Zuko is a second chance to save Lu Ten. To save Ozai. To be the good man Iroh wishes he had always been.
I definitely agree with everything in this thread, but Irohās disdain for Azula is a bit more philosophical in my opinion. Iroh and Azula didnāt just have the same rise. They had the same fall.
I love @prying-pandora666ās analogy on Iroh looking away from Azula like he looked away during Zukoās mutilation because thatās actually the theme of Irohās life. Iroh acknowledges that he looked away from Ozai (and likely their fatherās favoritism) in their youth. He looked away during Ursa and Ozaiās abusive marriage (I doubt that he could have done much, but judging by his own treatment of women I donāt know how much he cared). And after losing his son and having his throne usurped, he looked away rather than fighting for his birthright.
Azula on the other hand has always looked right at whatever was coming for her. She wanted a relationship with her brother, but not at the cost of her safety and made that clear.
Iroh was lucky enough to get around punishment for his actions. Azula fought for her throne and lost. She went through abuse from the asylum, she went through an estranged and negligent relationship with her mother, she went through three years alone with Ozai, and she went through betrayal on all fronts of her life.
Azula gets through things. Iroh gets around them. One of Irohās defining negative traits in the show is that he can be a coward. Azula shows him a reflection of himself if he wellā¦wasnāt.
like i personally love this art style on him but itās kinda hard to look at him and go āwow phoenix king so powerful so abusiveā (disclaimer I know he was an absolutely awful character and as an Azula stan i hate his guts but this is a joke post lol)
Tbh I think it was a good stylistic choice, since we are seeing him from Azula's perspective and Azula does not see him as obviously evil.
If we want Azula to be humanized, if we want to understand why abuse victims struggle to leave their abusers, we need to understand that Ozai is not the villain to her, he's her dad and she wants his love.
It's also terrifying given the context of who we know Ozai really is, to see him cooing over how powerful Azula is, because we know that as innocent and sweet as this looks, it is...not.
I really love this because he almost seems lik just... a dad. A good dad who's proud of his little girl. It's eerie. It's the thing Azula liked to delude herself into thinking he was.
Mishimas and Kazamas as Fire Nation Family Members
Note: Spoilers from Tekken 8 leaks/Avatar: The Last Airbender, including the comics
Heihachi as Ozai
Megalomaniac
Instigated his father's death to take his place
Hates his son(s)
A test of his son's strength led to said son being permanently scarred
Reina as Azula
Takes on Daddy's mannerisms
Cruel and arrogant
Proficient fighter at a young age
Mocking/dismissive relationship with an older brother/brother figure
Jin as Zuko
Betrayed by his father/father figure
Compelled to fight against the family's evil ways
Wrestles between being good and being evil
Mother disappears under mysterious circumstances
Lars as Iroh
Noblest member of the family
Leaves the family military for more honorable pursuits
Mentor figure to his nephew
Stands with his nephew when he's doing good, and against him when he's doing bad
Jun as Ursa
Comes from a family of high spirituality
Deeply loves and is protective of her son
Disappears under mysterious circumstances
Willingly/unwillingly leaves her son with an untrustworthy father figure
Asuka as Kiyi
Connected to the main family but not a part of it
Fiery personality
One of the youngest members of the combined family
Mostly divorced from the main family's machinations
As for the other family members, I couldn't fit them cleanly in like I could the others
Kazuya would have been the perfect Zuko (Heihachi even scarred him as well), but he utterly loathes Heihachi and becomes as evil as his old man. He doesn't have Zuko's desire for acknowledgement nor his struggle with good and evil (although Tekken 8 may change that). Since he also doesn't have the "normal" father/son relationship with Jin (having been dead until he was an adult), there's not enough emotional investment on Jin's part for him to be Ozai
Lee is working on the side of angels, but it's more out of convenience, opportunity, personal vengeance, and some affection for Lars and Alisa rather than morality, so he doesn't fit the Iroh mold. Also, like Kazuya, his main motivation is not Heihachi's love, so he doesn't fit Zuko either.
Kazumi is almost the opposite of Ursa: whereas Ursa loathed her husband and loved her son, Kazumi loved her husband, and although she also loved her son she wasn't above having him killed if he turned out evil. She also tries to kill her husband rather than kill for him. They both do come from a storied lineage, however.
Jinpachi was a peaceful man who loved his grandson and, as far as we know, his son as well. He doesn't fit "Wage war on the world" Sozin or "Kill your son for your hubris" Azulon. He probably would've work as an Iroh who's a balancing influence on his descendants, but he gets possessed and dies before he gets the chance.
Like perfect vibes. Heās angry, heās whiny, his voice cracks, he drew rage art of Aang and hung it on his wall right after meeting him, he disguised himself by wrapping a scarf over his eye, some random woman beat him upā¦
Iāve only seen three episodes and heās perfect.
Hiii! I'm here to read your ramble about TK8's story. Personally I've tried to keep my expectations as low as possible. But I still ended up disappointed. So what's your take? Gimme the good, the bad, and the missed opportunities.
Tekken 8 Story Thoughts
hello hello hello. Tekken 8 spoilers ahead, I'll put them under the cut.
First off, I have to say I'm having a really good time. I enjoyed playing through story mode, I enjoyed the character episodes. I'm loving customising characters, I'm looking forward to my fight stick arriving and learning some cool new combos and playing with mates.
Everything feels really nice, looks very cool (aside from some giant shoulders and oddly proportioned necks), and I adore little touches like Jin and Hwoarang getting to wear each other's clothes.
Story mode.
Well, what can I say.
It's as I feared, really. Honestly, all I can say is that there's a deep lack of appreciation for the skill of writing in the video game world. One day, perhaps Tekken will hire people who care about stories, about plot, about character development and character presentation. There is no conflict in the Tekken 8 story. I know this sounds weird given that 90% of it is Jin and Kazuya punching each other, but here's an example of what I mean:
Leo meets their father for the first time in nearly 15 years. It happens off screen.
Lars goes from wanting to kill Jin, to forgiving him. It happens off screen.
Kazuya goes from having life ambition 'kill Heihachi' to developing a philosophy that advocates the enslavement of the world to his will. It happens off screen.
Hwoarang travels back from the Middle East with one eye; Claudio decides to stop being conniving and instead genuinely help Xiao; Lee builds airships and perfects battlesuits; the UN decides to work with Yggdrasil despite Lars gunning down their troops in TK7. All of this happens off screen.
And still Kazuya and Jin do not manage to have a single conversation. The closest we get is in chapter one, where Kazuya accuses Jin of being just like him. Jin fears, rightly, later, that Kazuya is right, but he's essentially told that if he chooses to be nicer, then no they're not the same. There's no consequences for his actions as head of the Zaibatsu, no real conflict between Jin and any of the people he's hurt, not even Alisa, who sits down for a heart to heart with him and never brings up the way he forced her to hurt Lars and spoke of her as merely a tool and not a person. There is conflict in this story but no Conflict. No drama. No points of difficulty that require meaningful resolution.
And instead we have trite versions of a story that boil down Jin's conundrum to one of acceptance of a force that has destroyed his life, literally torn apart his friends, eaten people, and been a source of torture to him. He's told 'just accept it's a part of you!' as if this is about a surface level appearance, rather than a violence that has destroyed everything he loves, and that he can see the consequences of in Kazuya. I think Devil Jin was treated poorly and tritely in this story, and that if one wants a 'redemption' acceptance for this devil power, it has to come with interrogation and recognition of the way it has hurt Jin and those around him. It canonically hospitalised Hwoarang, and there's no awareness of this in the story.
That said, I really, truly loved this line from Jin to his mother's apparition.
It moved me emotionally in a way that no other video game cutscene has, and for all its misdoings, I'm so pleased this was included in Tekken 8. This is a deeply Jin line to me, written by someone who understands him. Jin's suicidal tendencies have been a recurring theme ever since Devil first awoke, and post-TK6 this is exacerbated further. There's no one on earth who hates Jin more than Jin, and him needing the desire to live as an important part of his strength against Kazuya, is really well done. I wish we could have seen more from Jin conencting with his uncles, Xiao, and Hwoarang to achieve this state of mind, but I commend the sentiment anyway.
When he asked his mother and she granted him the ability to help him, I thought for sure this was going to be about purification. In a way I suppose it was, but I was very tired and unimpressed by Angel Jin. From the overdesign to yet another emphasis on pure violence to defeat Kazuya, I was just completely uninterested. This uninterest was momentarily suspended when they lost their Devil powers, something I thought was brave and interesting of them to do. Somehow this changed absolutely nothing though, and Jin and Kaz don't even pause for a conversation really before they go on.
I do think it's in character for Kazuya to consider his Devil a tool to use for an end, but I think that's much more something he'd say than actually feel. He's had Devil's power with him since he was five years old, and he's relied on it time and again to save him, I think internally he'd be terrified of losing it. Devil is all that's stood between Kazuya and Heihachi for all his life. There's some trite remark about Devil Jin trying to 'protect Jin'. This is only true in so far as DJ awoke when Heihachi gunned Jin down. Devil Kazuya, however, has kept Kazuya alive all his life, and given him the strength to survive in a world where he's constantly been at Heihachi's mercy. Kazuya's desire to live is absolutely what fuelled him all his life, and his need for power comes out of that survival. His infatuation with power grows beyond this, and after Heihachi's death, we see how warped and out of control this grows, but I feel there are deep inconsistencies in the Tekken 8 story because no one ever sat down to really think about Kazuya's relationship with his Devil, and what that might mean for what they were spinning for Jin.
That said, someone was drinking the good stuff when they wrote this:
This is Kazuya's only good line in Tekken 8, in my humble opinion. It's the one moment where they let him have a tiny bit of actual characterisation. They hint at tying his motivations back into experiences linked to fear and lack of control. It's such a shame, because they acheived this much better in Tekken 7, where they drew clear parallels between the childhood trauma Kazuya faced and his final fight against Heihachi. And yet they leave his motivations again in obscurity in this game, leaving the majority of people, including Jin, none the wiser for why he is doing this other than to be evil for evil's sake.
Why does Jin never ask him about Jun? Or mention that he's been seeing his mother? Why does he not talk about purification linked to being a Kazama? Why has he got so much time for thinking about his own difficulties, but never seeks to ask about Kazuya's? One of the reasons I love Kazuya as a character is because he revels in his own villainhood, and will never volunteer a justification for his actions in the way Heihachi or Jin would. He would rather be seen as cruel than as weak. And it's weakness to him to admit or even evaluate within himself why it is that he needs to be all powerful. But that means that, narratively, he needs a foil to play across from him, and ask the questions that will otherwise never be raised. He needs someone like Jin, or Jun, or Lee, who knows him or has the interest in understanding him, to force him to speak about his past.
There's so much missing from this game, I don't really know where to start. I was discussing this with friends, and we feel like someone on the team had some vision, and was trying to do something interesting, but they were largely shot down at every turn by whoever watched Blood Rebellion and wanted that but 2 hours longer and no cute refridgerator scene.
I can't believe I played all of Tekken 8 and I still don't know if Jun is alive, or why Jin isn't being held accountable for his actions, or why Jin and Kazuya even have any beef. Tekken 7 left us with so many questions and Tekken 8 answers basically none of them. At least they managed to tie more of the cast into this game? But then why did everyone just forget about Zafina and Claudio when they collapsed? Don't they care? Where did Hwoarang go? He got on a bike in that fight then never had a battlefield fight or appeared in front of the Sanctum at Yakushima. Why don't Victor or Raven care about Lars defying them last game? Is Raven salty that Jin blew up a helicopter with him (maybe) and all his men in it? Does Jin hear Azazel return to life? Is he affected by it? That MF was talking in his head for months. If Kazuya could have defeated Azazel so easily, why did he just waltz off in TK6?
I do like the idea that the 'two evil stars colliding' as the end of Azazel being Jin and Kazuya destroying each others devils, forshadowed in TK6 and brought to conclusion here, but all the meaning and interest in this is destroyed by whatever they're trying to do with Reina. I cannot expressed how frustrated I am with her as a character. I suppose perhaps she's from the Devil-Human Integration period of research Heihachi undertook, though my understanding was that he never retrieved Devil cells that were needed for the research, or he would have injected himself with Devil. Perhaps Reina was part of a programme that continued on where Steve and the supersoldier programme were left off. I don't know. I just know that it takes a way a lot of impact that could have meant exploring a devil-free Tekken game in future.
One thing I do Not want to see, is Tekken 9 waltzing in with Kazuya suddenly being a good guy, teaming up with Jin and fighting Reina. Not without serious weight and reflection on his actions, or discussing the corrupting influence of Devil over him. And I've lost a lot of faith in Tekken really understanding their characters or story-writing enough to do this.
I didn't even get on to character episodes, but I think I've rambled enough for one day! Thank you for the asks.
I need people to not talk over me or other brown people when we say we are absolutely GUTTED about the fact that Amita had to watch a white woman in brownface peform the stunts she TRAINED FOR!
Inej Ghafa was so important to us! To me! She is a badass brown girl who stays loving and compassionate despite the trauma she faces, she defends herself and she holds on to her faith and she falls in love and she puts herself first and has goals and aims and is unapologetically herself! She's so dynamic and real and flawed and human and perfect! She made me feel SEEN in a way no other character in fiction ever has! I finally felt like I could write about a protagonist like myself and be well received one day! I found out Amita was cast and how passionate she was about Inej in the same way we all are!
Amita put her heart and soul into Inej and we LOVE HER for it! She performed her role MAGNIFICENTLY and worked so hard to be able to do it. She reread the book multiple times! She trained for the acrobatics and the knife skills all on her own even before the show started filming! She gained literal scars because of how hard she worked! She gave Inej Ghafa her all because like us, she finally felt SEEN in a piece of media and wanted to do her justice and She DID!
And then we all find out that we now have to share Inej Ghafa with a WHITE WOMAN who did BROWNFACE and the showrunners and producers just let it happen?? That Amita had to be told that all her hard work wasn't enough and that instead of a brown stunt woman, a white woman was brought instead and she had to sit and watch HER character be performed by someone who doesn't even understand the importance of her?
It feels disgusting. Inej feels tainted. Like she isn't OURS anymore. Like she doesn't belong to us brown girls anymore when we had been waiting for her for so long!
And to know that Amita trained SO HARD and ended up having to smile through the pain when a white stunt double was donning her skin color to do a stunt a BROWN stunt woman deserved to have been given the opportunity to perform, even if Amita couldn't fit the requirements for whatever reason? Inej Ghafa belongs to the brown women. She deserved to be shared with only a brown woman as a stunt double. She deserved to be played by a fellow brown woman who understood her significance!
It's disgusting. It's appalling and I HATE everyone who had a hand in making this happen. My stomach roiled in disgust when I found out. I wanted to scream and cry. Amita was so brave for having to tolerate that happen and be unable to do anything about it. I am so proud of her but the fact is she shouldn't HAVE to have experienced that kind of racism as part of her job to bring Inej to life for us.
And on top of that, they made Zoya, another brown girl in the show, racist for absolutely NO REASON. It served 0 plot purpose. The show would have been exactly the same without it. This character trait didn't even exist for Zoya in the books.
Please do NOT talk over brown women when we say that we are tired and hurt and upset and angry! Please help us hold Netflix accountable because in no way is this okay! Netflix and Eric and Leigh have been toting Shadow and Bone for diversity points and meanwhile have been silencing their poc cast in the background and forcing them to watch as more and more opportunities slip by them. As they are told once again that what they can do is nothing compared to what a white person can do.
AND as a note cuz I've seen white people talk about this: we DO NOT want the show cancelled! Thats avoiding the problem! Not fixing it! We demand a better production crew. There are so many POC in this cast: Archie, Jessie, Kit, Sujaya and Amita have put their heart and soul into these characters despite the racism behind the scenes. They deserve to continue to play these characters they love and put so much hard work into bringing to life while the production crew that's being racist behind the scenes get sacked!
Edit: Non POC can absolutely reblog this! I made this post so people would know and so that the message about how not okay this is could spread. I encourage you all to please help raise our voices because some days it feels no one else cares but us, especially when it comes to desi people.
Sorry but the contrast between canon Levi Ackerman and the fandoms interpretation of him will NEVER not be funny. Like dude is always just š§ or š and has NEVER done anything remotely sexual and you know heās awkward as fuck but yāall still swear youād bussdown and call him daddy. Itās okay I love yāall
Before I turn this whole acc into aot mess, lemme just say I love Hange, Levi, and Erwin they are my fav characters by far but WHO cut their hair omg. Esp Levi, he must be cutting that shit on his own bc no one who loves you is fucking up an undercut that bad.
Okay so I just learned that Leviās mom used to cut his hair and itās a very sentimental experience for him and now I feel really bad thanks. Leviās undercut is fine.
kianamaiart
ellievsbear
turnnoffyourmind
blakekathryn
yousharknotpass
pixelskylines
theartofmadeline
