Several Mushrooms @2-more-mushrooms - Tumblr Blog

archival-librarian

I feel like what someone thinks is irrelevant in deciding if they're a good person. What they do matters.

It doesn't matter why someone does a good thing it only matters that it was done.

2-more-mushrooms

What is the purpose of this thought process? What's the purpose of the idea of a good person at all?

These are genuine questions

musorka-m

If in the Weird route we see that we get to side B chapter 7, doesn't it mean that in the normal path we will also go there, but only to side A?

IDK what to say

2-more-mushrooms

It'll probably just say "chapter 7" but, yeah, I mean probably.

mouselikething

something i think is overlooked is Noelle gets over her fear of mice in the normal route

i know. sounds silly. what does it matter if shes scared of mice or not?

but i think thats the most direct way of showing that the weird route is not the only way for Noelle to "change" or "get stronger". she changes her feelings about mice. she becomes more courageous and can deal with things she was terrified of before. all without being abused or assaulted or tossed around. all while still being her own person who isnt forced to be reliant on someone else

the weird route is not and will never be the "good ending" for Noelle (and frankly i think its very upsetting that people say that considering its connections to abuse and suicidal ideation). she always had the capability to change and be strong, and all she needs is support to face and overcome her fears. in fact the weird route is even worse for her because it reinforces her belief that she is nothing by herself and she must be reliant on others

2-more-mushrooms

If people are saying doing the weird route is noelle's good ending because it will make her braver, more able to fend for herself, or stronger, I disagree with them.

The weird route is noelle's good ending because it's the ending where she gets to be herself. (In my analysis I mean. I totally see why other people would say it's a bad ending.)

The way she frames it, she's felt trapped in her own body, forced to conform to the character of "noelle" that someone (toby fox? gaster, maybe?) wrote into Deltarune. But there is this other character, a deeper one, a truer one, that built the character we know as Noelle. But it's a facade based on rules and expectations. Not that noelle can't break the rules of authority figures, but that she can't break the rules of her characterization. In the weird route, we command false noelle to siphon true noelle. Do we corrupt true noelle along the way, making her worse, making her reliant on us? Yes. This is bad. But I think it's more important that she's able to make decisions than that she's pure.

buckysrightarm1

tag game :)

Answer as many or few as you want!

1. If you were a bird, what type of bird would you be?

2. if you were an aquatic creature, would you be mammal, amphibian, fish, or something else?

3. do you have a favorite plushie/do you have a plushie

4. sleep. This isn’t a question. Sleep and drink water :) /threat

I’ll go first!

I would be a seagull!

I would be a mammal, probably some type of seal :)

I have two plushies that I snuggle at night! One is a sloth named Silver, and the other is a fish I made and named after my fish, Hyacinth. I love them dearly :)

i drank an entire bottle of water, and when I’m done with this, I will sleep! If it is night in your time zone I’m making you do the same

tags!!: @legalityoftheraccoons @holybananapants @robot-prince-of-the-apocalypse @aluminum-canz @minute-maid-offical @fireinthefoxpen @makeitfast9052 @duckofmisfortuneoffical @luceygoosey9 +open tags :]

atelierwilt

HI THANK U FOR TAGGING ME TIWA?? this looks so fun omg omg okay let's see

1: I think I would be a robin maybe?? specifically an Australian scarlet robin but idk if my friends would agree

2: I like to think I'd be a sea bunny :3.. so like. thats a type of sea slug, right?

3: I only have 3 plushies but I love them all very dearly, a unicorn dino, a banana and a corgi!!

4: ..no 🧍‍♀️.

@pen-far @sausage015 @rorokkubi

sausage015

thank u for the tag twinsy <3

1:

2: hmmmmmmm sponge (blue one/brain sponge).

3: all of my plushies are my children i love them all.

4: its 7 pm rn dawg 🥹

--> Tagss: @atropinenightshade @luannie @urfavvsarah @lilymoon1 @egylibenthusiast @starryskiesahead + people i forgot the usernames of (anyone else can join ofc)

urfavvsarah

yayyyy!!! ty for the tag!!!

1. i would be a raven or a barn owl!!!

2. lowkey whale sharks are pretty cool so i would be one of those

3. i have two favorite plushies!!! my korilakkuma bear and my blueberry cheesecake cow squishmallow:333

4. i will not be sleeping because it’s like. 1pm where i live, but i have drank 2 bottles of water today<33

TAGGIES!!: @mumus-candied-bonezzz @crumboat @old-books-excite-me @xscenequeenx @not-loucifer @sush1kat @mushroombea @cheese-enjoyer9471 and anyone else i forgot!!!! /nf

not-loucifer

thanks for the tag :D

probably a pileated woodpecker because they’re my favorite bird :D i too love barn owls however!!

2) probably a reptile?? perchance a turtle or a manatee if i was a mammal

3) i have a giant koala named fernando who i love cherish and adore

4) i CHUGGED water today because i was in the sun :D im about to go to sleep but im gonna read first ☝️

tags: @martinifruit @fryingthepanwithapplesauce @dolly-is-cool @punkgeorgewashington @leap541 @old-books-excite-me+ anyone else!!

martinifruit

1) hmm. cardinal maybe? i don’t know enough about birds for this

2) stingray

3) i’ve got a lot of plushies but my favorite is probably my very fuzzy zorua one, or oliver the otter, who i inherited from my mom

4) i drank so much lemonade today. and also i need to shower before bed and then maybe i will

@existn-t, @centipeedles, @chickensoup-thesecond, @possibly-evil, @katoninefandoms, @m1chaelcer4, @flarefloofer and whoever else wants to join

flarefloofer

Either a great-eared nightjar (my favorite- dragon birbs) OR a pigeon/seagull because I’m a menace 🤷‍♀️

100% a mammal, probably an otter or something

lots of plushies but my favorite is this dog I’ve had since I was a kid ❤️

it’s noon so I think I’ll get thrown out a window if I try to sleep lol (am drinking water for once tho!)

@toastedpotatoes @coherent-thoughts-needed +open tags!

toastedpotatoes

thank you for the tag!!!

1. i like to think i'd be a eurasian magpie :) they're smart and they have zero regard for authority, i love them

they're also so pretty!!!!

2. fih ?? maybe ??? 3. i have two penguins!! both are gifts from friends and i love them very much 4. [greatly beleaguered sigh] yes sir

@siorshreabhadh @peppermint-3 @robinparravel @highimpactemotions @dracarya-and-sal + open tags :)

dracarya-and-sal

crow. i love crows. they are intelligent and they enjoy screwing with people. they are loyal and yet complete menaces. this is all i need in life. also a group of crows is called a murder so if i had a necklace it would be an accessory to murder hehe

octopus because they have the most random abilities. like oh yeah of course they can change their color and shape and texture and have blue blood and three hearts and can THINK with their TENTACLES. this isnt even a surprise. they just keep pulling more crazy stuff and nobody questions it.

i have no plushies right now :pensive: but i want a kuromi plushie

i actually saw this, went to sleep, woke up, came back, and posted. i am 4 parallel universes ahead of you @megatronstherapist @2-more-mushrooms

2-more-mushrooms

I think probably a goose or a swan. But if a swan, like. A really ugly, gnarly swan. With like a gash over one eye or something. I'd be a pristine goose.

I will take this opportunity to mention that my favorite kind of bird is probably the blue heron. I like lots of birds (including crows) but there's no bird, and probably no other animal, that gets me being like "omg it's a heron" just from seeing them or hearing them mentioned. Blue heron specifically because of a reference to a joke I made and they're pretty. I think I'd work well as a heron but my actual answer is goose or gnarly swan (or maybe Pigeon or dove or raven or rooster or parrot. There's a lot of birds I could be).

2. Probably a reptile, in both the general and specific. Turtles, crocodiles, and lizards all work well, as well as just the general concept of me being a reptile (though probably less well than general amphibian).

3. I don't know if I'd say I have a favorite plushie, but I think since the day I was born I've had a small rabbit. I've gone through three pairs of pajamas for it (currently on the third, I mean), and have taken it with me to basically every building I've slept for the night in, somehow without it getting lost or broken into multiple pieces. Fun fact about me is that I was more distraught in the recent nightmare where I lost the rabbit than in the nightmare where I was (cw death) diagnosed with some kind of illness that would kill me soon. Though that second dream was a special case; in my other recent nightmares where people were in real peril, I was as much or more distressed than in that dream.

4. Yeah I probably should huh. Gonna go get some water soon at least. Though the water here kinda sucks actually. Eh it's healthy either way

2-more-mushrooms

Oh damn I forgot to give tags

Uh

@mushroominaforest @isthereaduck

There those work

aquilacalvitium

GOD how the HELL did Toby Fox and Temmie Chang manage to make Flowery an actually good and kind person who never actually does anything wrong and is objectively good and friendly and helpful towards everyone and yet also manage to make him SO EXTREMELY HATEABLE AND PUNCHABLE LIKE OH MY GOD I WANT TO DROP-KICK HIM INTO A DITCH

2-more-mushrooms

Toby fox succeeded at making the other end of the spectrum; making a good-natured annoying character, rather than a charming evil one.

buckysrightarm1

tag game :)

Answer as many or few as you want!

1. If you were a bird, what type of bird would you be?

2. if you were an aquatic creature, would you be mammal, amphibian, fish, or something else?

3. do you have a favorite plushie/do you have a plushie

4. sleep. This isn’t a question. Sleep and drink water :) /threat

I’ll go first!

I would be a seagull!

I would be a mammal, probably some type of seal :)

I have two plushies that I snuggle at night! One is a sloth named Silver, and the other is a fish I made and named after my fish, Hyacinth. I love them dearly :)

i drank an entire bottle of water, and when I’m done with this, I will sleep! If it is night in your time zone I’m making you do the same

tags!!: @legalityoftheraccoons @holybananapants @robot-prince-of-the-apocalypse @aluminum-canz @minute-maid-offical @fireinthefoxpen @makeitfast9052 @duckofmisfortuneoffical @luceygoosey9 +open tags :]

atelierwilt

HI THANK U FOR TAGGING ME TIWA?? this looks so fun omg omg okay let's see

1: I think I would be a robin maybe?? specifically an Australian scarlet robin but idk if my friends would agree

2: I like to think I'd be a sea bunny :3.. so like. thats a type of sea slug, right?

3: I only have 3 plushies but I love them all very dearly, a unicorn dino, a banana and a corgi!!

4: ..no 🧍‍♀️.

@pen-far @sausage015 @rorokkubi

sausage015

thank u for the tag twinsy <3

1:

2: hmmmmmmm sponge (blue one/brain sponge).

3: all of my plushies are my children i love them all.

4: its 7 pm rn dawg 🥹

--> Tagss: @atropinenightshade @luannie @urfavvsarah @lilymoon1 @egylibenthusiast @starryskiesahead + people i forgot the usernames of (anyone else can join ofc)

urfavvsarah

yayyyy!!! ty for the tag!!!

1. i would be a raven or a barn owl!!!

2. lowkey whale sharks are pretty cool so i would be one of those

3. i have two favorite plushies!!! my korilakkuma bear and my blueberry cheesecake cow squishmallow:333

4. i will not be sleeping because it’s like. 1pm where i live, but i have drank 2 bottles of water today<33

TAGGIES!!: @mumus-candied-bonezzz @crumboat @old-books-excite-me @xscenequeenx @not-loucifer @sush1kat @mushroombea @cheese-enjoyer9471 and anyone else i forgot!!!! /nf

not-loucifer

thanks for the tag :D

probably a pileated woodpecker because they’re my favorite bird :D i too love barn owls however!!

2) probably a reptile?? perchance a turtle or a manatee if i was a mammal

3) i have a giant koala named fernando who i love cherish and adore

4) i CHUGGED water today because i was in the sun :D im about to go to sleep but im gonna read first ☝️

tags: @martinifruit @fryingthepanwithapplesauce @dolly-is-cool @punkgeorgewashington @leap541 @old-books-excite-me+ anyone else!!

martinifruit

1) hmm. cardinal maybe? i don’t know enough about birds for this

2) stingray

3) i’ve got a lot of plushies but my favorite is probably my very fuzzy zorua one, or oliver the otter, who i inherited from my mom

4) i drank so much lemonade today. and also i need to shower before bed and then maybe i will

@existn-t, @centipeedles, @chickensoup-thesecond, @possibly-evil, @katoninefandoms, @m1chaelcer4, @flarefloofer and whoever else wants to join

flarefloofer

Either a great-eared nightjar (my favorite- dragon birbs) OR a pigeon/seagull because I’m a menace 🤷‍♀️

100% a mammal, probably an otter or something

lots of plushies but my favorite is this dog I’ve had since I was a kid ❤️

it’s noon so I think I’ll get thrown out a window if I try to sleep lol (am drinking water for once tho!)

@toastedpotatoes @coherent-thoughts-needed +open tags!

toastedpotatoes

thank you for the tag!!!

1. i like to think i'd be a eurasian magpie :) they're smart and they have zero regard for authority, i love them

they're also so pretty!!!!

2. fih ?? maybe ??? 3. i have two penguins!! both are gifts from friends and i love them very much 4. [greatly beleaguered sigh] yes sir

@siorshreabhadh @peppermint-3 @robinparravel @highimpactemotions @dracarya-and-sal + open tags :)

dracarya-and-sal

crow. i love crows. they are intelligent and they enjoy screwing with people. they are loyal and yet complete menaces. this is all i need in life. also a group of crows is called a murder so if i had a necklace it would be an accessory to murder hehe

octopus because they have the most random abilities. like oh yeah of course they can change their color and shape and texture and have blue blood and three hearts and can THINK with their TENTACLES. this isnt even a surprise. they just keep pulling more crazy stuff and nobody questions it.

i have no plushies right now :pensive: but i want a kuromi plushie

i actually saw this, went to sleep, woke up, came back, and posted. i am 4 parallel universes ahead of you @megatronstherapist @2-more-mushrooms

2-more-mushrooms

I think probably a goose or a swan. But if a swan, like. A really ugly, gnarly swan. With like a gash over one eye or something. I'd be a pristine goose.

I will take this opportunity to mention that my favorite kind of bird is probably the blue heron. I like lots of birds (including crows) but there's no bird, and probably no other animal, that gets me being like "omg it's a heron" just from seeing them or hearing them mentioned. Blue heron specifically because of a reference to a joke I made and they're pretty. I think I'd work well as a heron but my actual answer is goose or gnarly swan (or maybe Pigeon or dove or raven or rooster or parrot. There's a lot of birds I could be).

2. Probably a reptile, in both the general and specific. Turtles, crocodiles, and lizards all work well, as well as just the general concept of me being a reptile (though probably less well than general amphibian).

3. I don't know if I'd say I have a favorite plushie, but I think since the day I was born I've had a small rabbit. I've gone through three pairs of pajamas for it (currently on the third, I mean), and have taken it with me to basically every building I've slept for the night in, somehow without it getting lost or broken into multiple pieces. Fun fact about me is that I was more distraught in the recent nightmare where I lost the rabbit than in the nightmare where I was (cw death) diagnosed with some kind of illness that would kill me soon. Though that second dream was a special case; in my other recent nightmares where people were in real peril, I was as much or more distressed than in that dream.

4. Yeah I probably should huh. Gonna go get some water soon at least. Though the water here kinda sucks actually. Eh it's healthy either way

brixbraxium

susie healing: how does it compare to ralsei healing, as of ch5?

Susie's Healing is (7*MG + 15) + [Boost] , where Boost is up to 30 and builds from repeated use. (It also has a secret mechanic where it's more effective against downed party members but shh we'll get there)

Ralsei's Heal Prayer is (5*MG).

So at least from a sheer calculation perspective, Susie's is better. However, this isn't the full story, as they have pretty different base MG stats. So we should look at actual builds to see the real effect.

So, if we compare truly optimized builds:

Then Susie's Healing is stronger! But, this assumes truly optimized builds, and necessitates you pick these specific flower options.

Personally, I think picking the Hat is a lock, and personally I think I would always choose the SethSpecs, but let's say that we don't have the BlueShoes.

Given that we can't put the Hat/Specs on both Susie and Ralsei at the same time, we should really be looking at what builds are possible with items that *aren't* the flower items. For the person who isn't getting the optimal Hat/Specs, we can use BlueRibbon/Dealmaker instead as a backup build.

If we Prioritize Ralsei, we get 156 Heal Prayer vs 185 Betterheal.

And if we prioritize Susie, we get the optimal build from earlier, with 225 Betterheal, and 125 Ralsei Heal.

As we can see, in both scenarios, Susie's Healing does end up being more HP overall. But remember its cost.

Personally: I think that Susie's Healing is worth building for, but not worth prioritizing. 225 Heal is insane but consider that the cost is over double that of Heal Prayer, and Ralsei also has access to Revivesong, which is basically just Better Betterheal. It only costs a bit more and you get a stronger effect.

Note that I'm using BlueRibbon here- this is because MonarchRBN requires using the PrincessRBN as a crafting ingredient. This is probably worth it but I think personally I will keep the PrincessRBN just in case I need AT. But obviously Monarch would be better for healing purposes here.

Also, that secret revive mechanic- if BetterHeal is used on a DOWNed party member, it gets an additional bonus to its healing value, until either:

A) The boost is enough to bring the party member UP

B) The boost is equal to the initial strength of the spell (ie: double effectiveness overall)

Functionally this means BetterHeal will be up to double effectiveness on a DOWNed party member and this means it generally is guaranteed to revive a DOWNed party member, barring weird scenarios like SWOON.

TLDR:

Susie's Healing is extremely viable and worth considering in builds but Ralsei's healing is still generally better as Heal Prayer is much more cost efficient for comparable effect and if you want Big Healing you can still use Revivesong. But it's def worth building for and it's quite easy to make a viable Susie Healing Build with backup items.

2-more-mushrooms

I think it's very very very weird that you don't directly consider cost in your calculations, just bringing it up as another factor to consider...

In deltarune, a turn is worth approximately 24 tp (higher estimates are better for higher TP cost spells, lower ones are better for lower TP cost spells, and if it's one of the two I think this estimate is probably a bit high) so we add 24 tp to each spell's cost for a better comparison on actual cost.

That's 56 cost for heal prayer, 99 for susie's healing. So for the prioritized susie value, susie's healing is less than 3% better. And you seem to have forgotten that the monarchribbon is just a better version of the blueribbon*, which might provide enough of a bonus to bump ralsei's healing as better. And remember, that was susie's prioritization.

In short, unless you're consistently hitting the max TP value in fights, ralsei's healing is better than susies and better to build into than susie's (especially if you assume blueshoes) against up party members, though obviously if you double the value of susie's healing through being downed that cancels out the downside of having almost double the cost.

*You can buy two scarfmarks in chapter 4 and then use one for the synthesis and another as a weapon. If you know what you're doing the only cost is princessribbon which is ass on pacifist

brixbraxium

I didn't spend much time talking about the exact costs because I felt it was fairly self explanatory. Susie's Healing and Ralsei's Healing often end up being in around the same ballpark, so obviously spending much less to use Heal Prayer is more efficient than spending almost all your TP to case BetterHeal once. Especially when challenging fights often require TP for ACTs.

This is why I concluded (as you seem to) that it's better to prioritize Ralsei's healing. Susie's healing can be very good and useful but is not worth prioritizing over Ralsei's.

I explain in the post why I am using BlueRibbon here. (MonarchRBN is better but requires burning the PrincessRBN to get. This is probably a reasonable trade but given that AT Boosting Gear is fairly uncommon and the PrincessRBN is quite good for this purpose I think it's reasonable to keep the PrincessRBN and to use BlueRibbon as a substitute. Obviously, if you have MonarchRBN, you'd be using that instead).

2-more-mushrooms

All of this is fair and true. I made my mistakes in misreading, being tired, and being confused about you using the word "stronger", which you're not using as a synonym of "better". I apologize.

The only thing I would've still done in the post is make the actual calculations. I think it IS important to note that Susie's healing, if you build into it fully and don't have the monarchribbon or blueshoes, is slightly stronger than ralsei's, and also that if you build into susie even slightly suboptimally it's still more efficient TP-wise to use Ralsei. Because of the immense price difference, people who do run max healing susie might choose Ralsei to use a healing spell that turn when potentially more healing would be needed sooner to keep someone up to get an action next turn; they'd make a suboptimal play because of the perceived absurd difference in cost when really the difference is only massive.

How did you get the "24TP added to spell costs" number? I totally get it if it was 16TP, explaining to people that the spells in Darkness Fights actually cost more than they look because you're also not attacking/defending to build TP is one of my go-to tips for people struggling to build purify. But going above the base Defend amount is a confusing baseline for me.

I couldn't be happier you asked this question. Genuinely. I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about this and both want to talk about it and get feedback.

First. Why did I choose defend as a baseline of the baseline? You seem to agree, but it's worth bringing up. It's the general action of primary spellcasters when they can't cast their spells, which in the context of comparing spells (the most common kind of action to compare), makes it make the most sense. Tp is also valuable to almost all players; puppetscarf violence ralsei builds value tp for susie's rude buster, no puppetscarf ralsei builds value tp for ralsei's healing, and puppetscarf pacify builds value tp for, well, pacify. It's also almost always possible to convert an action into exactly the same amount of tp and defense boost, unlike hit points which depend on attacking stats or health which depends on tp and magic or resources. TP is also an actual resource that we can conceptualize, and its pools don't grow throughout the game; a single tension point never has any less or more value, and is rarely harder or easier to obtain.

Now, why did I make it 1.5x the normal value? To my thought process, it has to be higher than the normal value (Taking 2/3rds damage isn't worth literally zero TP in every situation or healing would be literally worthless), but how MUCH higher?

It's in-game precedented.

Some of the flower fights, most notably Flowery, give you an 8 tp defend and a 12 tp S and R action. This is essentially equivalent to Toby Fox valuing tp at double the rate it's normally valued at, so we can assume he's valuing a turn at 24 tp. Ideas like "Defensive actions should be worse than offensive actions to encourage risky" and such ARE valid, but I don't see why they'd apply more in mini-boss fights than normal encounters. This would not be enough for me on its own, but it is a significant point in 24's favor. Whatever else 24 is, it's not arbitrary.

2. 8 tp is about the value I think I'd place the 33% damage reduction to my primary spellcaster's hp for one turn at

This one's self explanatory, and also the most subjective one. I think the number might be a bit low or a bit high, but I think it's not like 6 points higher or ten points lower than it should be, and I think it might be slightly high, which could account for defend obviously not always being the best action choice (why-else-would-we-use-anything-other-than-defend). Whatever else 24 is, it's in the right ballpark.

3. 24 makes the math slightly easier.

If I'm comparing, say, heal prayer to ice shock, or pacify to sleep mist, I'll get much cleaner fractions than if I used 25 or 23. Whatever else 24 is, it makes the math a bit easier.

So it's clean, it's close, and it has official backing. I don't see what other factors someone might want out of a baseline, but I can see how someone else might think that 1. closeness is the most important factor and 2. 24 isn't the closest. I just don't know what the closest would be, and 24 fulfills the other two factors.