hello! just saw your answer about the pinesonas - if i’m allowed to be further intrigued: is there another reason you came about the conclusion that the pinesonas do not exist on the same trope level as an alias, beside seeing the consistency in interactions with other people? do you find there is a psychological approximation to jonathan pine becoming a different persona to the point it “does exist” on a further level? if this is not because of being a good liar/actor, then what is it? lack of one cohesive self and just existing as he knows others will prefer to perceive him? if so what do you think is the process or reconciling that or bypassing any reconciliation of that? forgive me for the many questions, you’re just someone i’ve seen speak in this at length now and since i’m fascinated from an acting standpoint and a history of having to pathologically lie in order to remain safe. i’m wondering where any similarities may lie!
i will attempt to answer but i don't know psychology so my answer may be lacking on that angle.
is there another reason you came about the conclusion that the pinesonas do not exist on the same trope level as an alias, beside seeing the consistency in interactions with other people?
🤔 you know, i am not sure. i know i was first clued into it by a few lines/gestures that seemed "out of character" for one pinesona but not the one who did it. i had not twigged until then, but once i went looking i could find the differences. i think they're not aliases in the usual spy genre sense because some of them exist outwith any need for a fake name or before pine's got into this whole espionage thing. so he can't just need them for the job, there's some other reason he keeps spawning these new people who are only half real. the book might have an explanation (i should probably read that at some point lol) but i think yeah it probably is from an attempt to fit in and give people what they seem to want. like a chameleon, but a manipulative one, but not really because it doesn't know it's doing that it just camoflages itself because that's what it does.
this is why he's really good at customer service. the hotel management aspect is easy to overlook as Generic Backstory Before Stuff Happens but it's part of the key. best example is in switzerland where pine fucking hates roper already but is extremely polite and not even in a passive-aggressive way, he's just that good at turning into the subservient lackey roper (and other rich bastard customers of that type) wants him to be. the hotel manager is a pinesona too, which is why i think we the viewer have never really seen the original form of jonathan pine, if there was one. which there must have been, but when? this could go way back!
the pinesona's kind of exist in that they're consistent and don't seem to take much or any mental effort to maintain, and he could probably slip back into one from years ago without trouble. but they're not 'personalities' in a dissociative identity way (i did see a fic that did that once though and it was good), they're a half-conscious habit formed to help make people like him or to help fit in. (nobody would like jack linden/thomas quince, and army pine's probably a twat too because he was in the army, but most of the rest are at least a bit likeable.)
as i said in that other post, i don't think the tv quite gets it across that this is distinct from a spy who lies really well. in a sense jonathan pine is not even lying, he just adapts automatically to what he thinks people want from him. which is a shame because that's really the big thing it has going for it conceptually, as opposed to the tesco value james bond that it otherwise appears to be. i think in general people think the hook is merely that it's a hotel manager who ends up doing spy things rather than a real spy. (aside: the s2 trailer worried me because it made it seem like the series had completely abandoned any effort to pretend it wasn't james-bond-but-cheaper. luckily that did not happen!)
i don't have a psychology take on this, it's more a story/character thing i approach this as. there's a few characters who have more than one name, notably sophie/samira alekan and obvs teddy dos santos/eduardo vidal, and for both of them the old name seems to be considerd the 'real' one that should ideally be returned to. and roper's island is full of people with nicknames he probably gave them, and he names andrew birch and dresses him up like a doll of himself. something something externally imposed identities. which could sometimes apply to whoever jonathan pine is currently being but not always and he goes full-on with it, well beyond seeming necessity. alex goodwin having a fake name and fake glasses makes sense but did mi6 really tell him "become a sad quiet cat dad"? but it ends up as "this is my oc alex goodwin, he likes cats and computers and his favourite colour is blue. i will never break character even when nobody is observing me, because that's what you want me to be really, isn't it dad rex?"
it's acting and it's lying and it is also neither of those things, as i interpret it. real and normal people do a bit of it when we switch linguistic register depending who we're talking to. does it count as lying when i type in standard english online but use more scots words irl? i don't think it does, it's just accomodating to an assumed audience (though i used 'outwith' earlier in this post). the fact that the pinesonas are not fully lies is why he acts them so well - matthew ellis is a fake name and his fake french daughter does not exist but he's also the fun, reckless, and sexually available guy that jonathan thinks teddy will want. he'd be at least partway to being matthew even if he really was just flirting with teddy at a party. andrew birch is a fake name but he's the subservient progete roper wants and the excitingly dangerous possible escape route jed craves. and not all of that is a conscious decision by the man who's pretending to be matthew and andrew and whoever else seems like he'd fit in and make friends.
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