Fluidphobia and transphobia in episode 5 of Loki
16 minutes in. âHave any of you ever met a woman variant of us?â âNo, never.â âSounds terrifying.â I donât even have words for how much that made me want to cry. Thatâs so unbelievably stupidly fluidphobic. Loki is also a woman, Loki is genderfluid, itâs likely all Loki variants are. So by saying that Loki has never seen himself as a woman is incorrect, it sounding âterrifyingâ is beyond upsetting, and all of it is fluidphobic. (And also one of the variants with President Loki is played by a female actor anyway so??)
This is disgusting. Itâs pure fludphobia. And if this was homophobia or transphobia you all would be talking way more about it. Posts talking against it would be getting more notice. The media would be talking about it. The Marvel team would have to address it. But no one cares enough about genderfluid voices.
And they had the audacity to say this:
It would have been better if theyâd just not made MCU Loki genderfluid. I canât believe Iâm saying that. But the fact that they had the audacity to boast about how great they were for doing it, and then gave us fluidphobic representation. Not no representation, bad representation. Iâd rather no representation that bad representation. At least no representation canât create new slurs used against genderfluid people. No representation canât create misunderstandings about how genderfluid have to shape-shift to be a different gender, how theyâre a different person when theyâre a different gender. No representation wouldnât have caused the surge in fluidphobia in the fandom. Just yesterday a tweet was going around and getting popular saying Sylvie canât be genderfluid because her name is âLaufeydottirâ⌠Even though Lokiâs is âLaufeysonâ and heâs genderfluid you know almost like someone can change what their assgined-at-birth gender is.Â
And it goes beyond fluidphobia into pure transphobia when you see âsex: fluidâ. Parts of the fandom are now saying âsexfluidâ to refer to genderfluid people. Itâs not only now basically become a slur, but think about the implications. âSexfluidâ means someone must change their genitalia when theyâre identifying as another gender. Thatâs fluidphobic because of course real genderfluid people canât shapeshift. However, itâs also transphobic because it implies that in order to be a woman Loki must have a vulva, meaning that one needs a vulva in order to be a woman, meaning that theyâre implying trans women without vulvaâs arenât really women. Thatâs a transmed belief, a transphobic belief. You could look at that and say Iâm reaching, or that Iâm reading too much into it. But sex and gender donât mean the same thing and this is how fans are using the word, this is what viewers of the show think the words means.Â
Iâm not talking about the fans on here, or even the fans on Twitter, Iâm talking about the majority of Marvel viewers. Because the majority arenât part of fandom communities, arenât part of LGBT+ communities, they donât go on social media to look at what people are saying about the show, and all they know about genderfluidity is what they see in this show. And even then, just search âLoki female selfâ on Twitter and there are hundreds of people calling Sylvie that. The main stream media keep calling Sylvie âLady Lokiââin their articles. ScreenRant keeps doing it, official Loki merch on Gamestop is doing it.
Iâm not sorry if me talking about this and complaining is ruining your experience of watching the show, that just means before you were ignorant to the fluidphobia in the series. Iâm not saying the show should be cancelled, Iâm not saying you canât watch it or you canât enjoy watching it because Iâm still watching it, Iâm still finding moments I enjoy in it. You can be critical of something and still watch and enjoy it.
EDIT: you know what? âthatâs terrifyingâ is also kinda fucking sexist
Adding: because some people seem to think âthatâs terrifyingâ is the fluidphobic line and arguing with me when itâs clear they didnât properly read this post. The fluidphobic line is Tomâs Loki, our main Loki, saying âHave you ever met a woman variant of us?â. Thatâs fluidphobic. Loki is genderfluid, she is a woman too, Sylvie is not different from her because of her gender.
Some current things in the replies:
imaginationhyperload âI thought they called her terrifying because she sounded like a bada$$⌠like Natasha, and Pepper Pottsâ
escapism-is-my-middle-name "Loki is genderfluid, itâs likely all Loki variants are" umâŚ.no. the point is that all of them are different. different species, even. but they all have the same end struggle with self sabotage. just bc classic loki thought it was weird to be female doesnât make the line fluidphobic. it just means that the classic loki version isnât genderfluid. and sylvi is fucking terrifying
butterfly123Â You think way too much to it, Sylvia is terrifying because she a badass, all Loki is different somehow and all the loki we seen with the expection of sylvi are men so its weird to them
âall the loki we seen with the expection of sylvi are menâ.Â
You really wrote that and thought that wasnât fluidphobic? You have the audacity to tell a genderfluid person theyâre âthinking too much into itâ while actively being fluidphobic. We have seen other female variants. You know who? Loki. Tom Hiddlestonâs Loki. The main Loki of the series. He is genderfluid, she is genderfluid, she is also a woman, this is exactly the problem with the series and the fandom. (Also literally one of the variants with President Loki is also played by a woman if weâre going to be picky).
But you know if youâd actually read my post and not decided to talk over a genderfluid person you would have seen in the literal first paragraph âLoki is also a woman, Loki is genderfluid, itâs likely all Loki variants are. So by saying that Loki has never seen himself as a woman is incorrect.â And yes I stand by that itâs likely all Loki variants are genderfluid. As Sylvie said, âWeâre the sameâ, but also Loki assumed Sylvie was also bisexual because sheâs a Loki variant therefore it is safe to assume he would also assume other Loki variants are also genderfluid until told otherwise.
Iâm sick of people coming in and telling me Iâm âreading too much into thingsâ. If youâre not genderfluid, you donât get to say that. Iâve had people say âbut Iâm non-binary so I canât be fluidphobic and I say that thing isnât fluidphobic even though you say it isâ. No. Shut up. You can be transgender and fluidphobic. You can be non-binary and be fluidphobic. You can be LGBT+ and be fluidphobic, just as there are biphobic gays, transphobic bisexuals, acephobic trans people. Being part of the LGBT+ community doesnât mean you get to talk over genderfluid people or argue with them on what is or isnât fluidphobic, unless you are also genderfluid. And if you are genderfluid and didnât view the same things I did as fluidphobic, I hope you can at least empathise as to why I and at least hundreds of others do think that and feel hurt and that we should want better representation than this and that we deserve better representation than this.
And to the people in who have reblogged this post and left these things in the tags and in my askbox:
#that line really caught me off guard for someone whoâs been waiting to see our Lokiâs genderfluidity #I really hope Sylvie isnât their token for genderfluidity otherwise Iâll be really upset #I really honestly thought we were going to see more women or enby versions of Loki during this episode
#as a genderfluid person. I give you my many thanks on talking about this issue here. for I saw little people seeing the problems with the#portray of genderfluidity or just flat out ignoring it because they arenât genderfluid themselves.#but in the process. are hurting trans people too by ignoring these issues.#so thank you again for speaking about it and making some people see the problems and listen. knowing thereâs people who do care here.#has given me some hope iâm not feeling alone on this all while before I thought I was. <3
So, I hope you know youâre far from alone, although I know it doesnât really lessen the hurt. I really admire your constant attempts at education. But please donât feel like itâs something you have to continue doing.
yo thanks for making these posts clearing stuff up it is so upsetting to see people be so ignorant. iâm really sorry you have to put up with that!
You guys keep me going. You prove that making these posts and speaking up about fluidphobia is worth it. Because the majority of people, even within the LGBT+ community, donât know how to recognise fluidphobia. Even if they support the genderfluid identity, they donât know the term fluidphobia or they donât know it exists or how to recognise it. And itâs important to talk about because you know that if this was transphobia or homophobia in the show then everyone would be talking about it, the media would be talking about it, it would be the most popular trending thing in the fandom on Twitter. But because itâs fluidphobia, because itâs about genderfluid people, weâre not âpopularâ enough to get noticed. And I know me making these posts will never reach Marvelâs ears, as much as I would love the Loki creative team to address the issues genderfluid people have raised, but at least maybe it can make the fandom a little less fluidphobic. Or at the very least make other genderfluid people feel like theyâre not alone, because I know I always feel like I am.














