(In response to @strawberrysweater ! Thanks for opening this can of worms and sorry for this huge post lmaooo)
To preface this: I do love them together!! I just enjoy looking for the places they might clash at times if they were actually in a relationship... So this is about the things that keep them from fully understanding/trusting each other. And ofc this is just my interpretation!!
My short answer:
(1) Miu only thinks she is valuable as an inventor and sexual object, (2) Most people only care about Kiibo as a scientific novelty, and (3) they both have JUST enough evidence to convince themselves that this is also how they view each other. Even if deep down they're only playing these roles in an attempt to get closer to another human being.
On top of that, even though they're especially vulnerable with each other, I think there's still a lot of misunderstanding between them that would be difficult for them to reconcile. First because they have some genuine points of conflict, and second because they each have problems communicating and reading people (i.e. reality distorting levels of abandonment issues & obligatory robot autism coding, respectively)
Elaboration under the cut:
PART A - Insecurities
You can see (1) and (2) a bit in their other relationships:
Miu is of course hypersexual at all times, and she gives inventions to Shuichi (FTE) and her fantasy lover (love suite) because, as she confesses herself, inventing stuff is the only way she knows how to show affection for other people besides offering them her body.
Her inventions and hypersexuality are also the only explicit points of connection between her and Kokichi, arguably the only other character she is remotely close to besides Kiibo and Shuichi.
So given that most of her onscreen relationship with Kiibo is sexual or scientific (or both) in nature, it’s easy for her to go on believing these are the only things she has to offer. It’s a bit self-fulfilling of course because she’s arguable the one controlling the direction of their relationship in the first place, and at this point I’m not sure she believes there’s anything else to her.
[Shout out to @cloudysonder for helping develop this take :P]
I get the impression Kiibo has met a lot of people over his life who only want to talk about how cool it is that he’s a robot, even though that’s not a part of his identity he initially likes to bring up.
In his FTE with Shuichi, he goes straight into 'demonstrating my functions' mode as if it's the only way he knows how to talk to people
We see him treated in this fetishized way in-game too: with Kokichi chasing him to be “friends with a robot”; with Kaede’s FTE asking him invasive questions and touching his buttons without asking; and in postgame with Kazuichi basically assaulting him and trying to take him apart out of scientific curiosity --- all of these within just his first or second interactions with these people!
So it's a BIG thing for him to willingly let Miu sit there and take him apart, when he already spends so much time fending off virtual strangers who don't respect his bodily autonomy. And he's not used to people taking a genuine interest in him as a person so he’s hesitant to let himself believe Miu is any different, especially when her interest is so explicitly centered around his biology.
Plus as long as Kiibo is physically dependent on Miu, there's going to be a lot of room for insecurity to fester on BOTH sides:
"Does Kiibo really need me or does he just need my technical skills? Does he want to do these favors for me or does he feel like he has to?"
"Does Miu really care who I am or does she just want to gawk at my body like everyone else does? Does she care who I am or am I just the first boy(?) to give her the time of day? Does she want to help me or does she just know she’s the only one who can?"
This is the biggest hurdle IMO because it's a necessarily unbalanced relationship, and it will have to continue for the foreseeable future, no matter how they feel about each other.
PART B - Respect/communication
Another thing is that I don't think they fully respect each other — kind of for the same reason the rest of the group doesn’t respect them either
Miu might not consider Kiibo a person. We know Kiibo was worried about this; when asking Shuichi to use the electrohammer on him he explains, "The outcome will settle once and for all how Miu perceived me." This, and the fact she says robots aren’t people in trial, make me pretty confident that she has never looked him in the eye and said "I consider you a person."
I think she has a complex relationship with Kiibo’s personhood. On one hand if he’s a thing then it’s much easier for her to control him (esp given what we see of their relationship) and this soothes her anxious heart by ensuring that he can’t abandon her.
At the same time, if this is the case, then his coerced/artificial love isn’t worth as much as it would be if it came from an autonomous human person — to her insecure mind, it becomes Miu alone in her room playing boyfriend girlfriend with a doll, if that makes sense.
To clarify, I’m not saying she BELIEVES he’s just an object, but it’s an idea that both comforts and torments her.
It's worth noting, too, that Miu doesn't always respect people's consent. This is especially risky when you factor in their mechanic-robot relationship (which already comes with a difficult power dynamic) and Kiibo’s naive/somewhat people-pleasing personality.
On Kiibo’s end: I think it’s safe to say he finds her rude/inappropriate at first (though I think it's really sweet that he uses the much more euphemistic description 'brash and spirited' after getting to know her). They also have some pretty stark moral differences --- Kiibo is distraught to learn that Miu wasn't above murdering their classmates, for example.
More importantly, I headcanon he has a lot of difficulty understanding her at all – on an emotional level, yes, and and on a literal level he just straight up doesn’t understand many of the sentences she says either
K: “Most of that was unintelligible nonsense, but…” after Miu explains her “secret woman weapon." IMO his decision to phrase this as an insult helps mask the fact he's not familiar with all the lewd references she just made
He also has problems understanding emotions from the start, and Miu is DIFFICULT to track because she cycles through emotions so rapidly.
+ he might find it hard to extrapolate that many of the things she does are part of a facade. The crass egotistical miu who says he’s not a person is equally as real to him as the deeply insecure miu wants to believe he is a person (if not more real…)
PART C
Also these bullets from my personal doc I don't have the willpower to expand on atm:
They are both so prone to misinterpreting people unkindly
They’re also both so misled about how committed a relationship is supposed to be. Like I think Kiibo would consider a confession from literally anyone to be tantamount to a proposal (based on his love suite scene). And Miu wouldn’t be quite so fast but i do think it’d still be a huge deal for her because she falls very hard very easily (based on her FTE). Which is all very cute but being plunged into a big commitment like that can be crazy stressful, esp for two teens who have never dated before (imo) and have no frame of reference. [I was actually just going to post about this part lol]
PART D
All that said... I love them together and I DO think they could make it work without too much heartbreak. A lot of the things I describe as problems here could easily be taken as strengths.
e.g. Their misunderstanding of how relationships work ironically makes them more compatible, since they're both ready to go whole hog (if Kiibo determines that he actually likes her that is). Miu's rapidly fluctuating emotions are confusing, but on some level I think he'd admire how deeply and obviously she is able to feel things. And of course Miu as an inventor has a deep (almost objectum like??) respect for machines that helps Kiibo accept that he can be a robot and a person at the same time, and is probably the only one in the class who understands just how impressive he really is.
Thanks thanks THANKS for reading if you seriously read all that!! Mwah!!!!
I would love to hear anyone's takes on my takes too :P I haven't been rotating them in my head for too long yet so I'm still developing my interpretations...
spoilers for z.a.t.o. thoughts on ira and her connections with asya
it kinda puzzled me why ira actually cared about asya in the first place. why she dropped the aggressive facade while talking to her, even if for a little bit, why did asya's poem wake her up from her comatose state at the end.. i felt it in the air, but couldn't put into words
from the [jammed signal] parts we know that ira resents pity and has great trouble trusting people at all. she's always searching for signs of disgust, judgement, mockery, and she barely receives help and kindness from anyone, so when she does - it causes confusion and anxiety. what's behind that kindness? when will come the inevitable blow, when i get weak and vulnerable?
for ira the world is about survival of the fittest. it's a contest and who comes on top gets to choose, they get all the benefits and leave the crumbs to the rest.
"doesn't she know that looking at someone so weak is meant to make her feel superior?"
while marina was kind, helpful and understanding, she was still superior in a lot of senses. she has the same experience, yes, but now she's "normal" and successful in her social life, she doesn't have the episodes anymore. marina isn't resented by her peers, she isn't ostracized. anxious, unequal, dependant (because of the meds) - a very unstable and vulnerable position, especially for someone with trust issues.
and here's asya. an outcast, bullied by her classmates, lonely, looked down upon by everyone around her. she's awkward and weird, she doesn't fit in in the slightest and barely even tries to. and she spends all her free time just roaming the streets by herself.
that... sounds familiar, huh.
it also seems like.. like ira got an upper hand here. she's higher on the foodchain. she's the one deciding someone's fate.
looking up is the opposite of pity, so it probably felt very new and weird to ira. yes, the care in asya's eyes and awkward words mattered, but her seeing ira as someone superior in the most positive sense... not a drag, not a burden, but someone who's wanted and sought out, respected without fear. that's.. something every anxious teenage outcast can only dream of.
ira and asya are at least on the same level in a lot of ways, something that made trusting marina more difficult. their struggles are a lot alike, even if ira and asya cope differently. and even in that..
asya is all about freeze and fawn. she's a daydreamer, not doing anything to change her situation, just emptily living through life, and she always goes along with whatever boys say just to feel some connection.
ira is, obviously, a fight type. her insecurities and fear of rejection turn into anger, you don't wanna get attacked - well, attack first.
and they both flight. avoidance, running from people as fast as they can, avoiding contact where it's possible... anything to not get hurt again.
ira also thought of her life as something with predetermined destination, something that can't physically be changed and therefore there's no point in trying in the first place. pretty much asya's thoughts, even if painted in different emotional shades. they both given up, but still struggled to make some change once pushed by someone else - it was marina for ira, and it was both of them for asya.
You mentioned in your suselle analysis that you feel that kris has the qualities that would be better suited for noelle in a partner, I would love to hear you elaborate!
Gladly kriselleanon
Kris is a a teaser and messes with Noelle but imo not overstepping boundaries cause they don’t get Noelle to fawn. She still shows learned helplessness with the puzzles, telling them to solve them/take charge/she can’t do them, but she expresses intimate thoughts and emotions and playful self assertion with them (even given the implied distance they now have!) So, as much of a prankster and kind of weird they can be, Noelle’s fawning is a defense from a threat (real or perceived) and if she can stand up for herself, be open with Kris and say no one knows her like them it’s because she feels safe. And thats what I see in them— Noelle isn’t that way even with Berdly, despite them being close. Being pushed to self assert by someone you feel safe with, that you feel has your best interest in mind, is heaps easier, so kris would prolly be one of the people that could most easily feed her confidence and self esteem.
I think the intimacy built up over years and the way kris can tap into Noelles interest for horror/adrenaline without being aggro (most of the mentioned actions, rocking the Ferris wheel booth, using ketchup as blood, getting under her bed to scare her are just pranks/children being stupid, she is never actually unsafe like Susie pinning her up against a wall or mocking her would be) are compatible with her specifically. And this may be bit outta left field but being quiet because it gives Noelle room to speak. Part of fawning is prioritising others (notice how Noelle just lets Berdly talk all over her), kris being quiet lets her voice her thoughts which validates her.
To me, its really telling in snowgrave— Noelle puts up a fight when you compel her to proceed a couple times before succumbing to you using her learned helplessness to weaponise her magic. She felt safe enough with Kris to say a hard NO (implying she did put these hard limits before and kris respected them). and you absolutely fuck that up for her. It sucks
Bluh blah parallel on why I think kriselle works because they know each other so well (kris knows a noelle that was less damaged by compounding trauma, and knows how to bring that noelle out of her shell) vs why I think ralsusie works because they don’t know each other from before (zero negative reputation feeding into the mistrust and fight response, no preconceptions). Filler drawing
Thinking a ton about Dante after seeing this concept art. It like really highlights how different they are from PM's last few protagonists. Of course, we don't really *know* anything on Dante aside from the barest of scraps, but unlike most generic amnesia MCs they have an actual personality and react to things in their own way.
Unfortunately there's probably most definitely going to be a traumatizing and horrifying past reveal somewhere down the line, almost a given with this being a Project Moon work; but the way Dante acts with even a dim but hopeful attitude that focuses on going forward already stands out brightly in a world filled with broken, downtrodden characters haunted by their pasts. It's difficult to imagine them taking the "OH WAIT, they were actually A SHITTY BASTARD in the PAST!!" cheap copout as well, too overly trodden ground.
But most of all just fucking so god damn glad we have a main character who **isn't** a boring, pathetic blank slate propped up by everyone around them going "ohhhh you're so good, you're the best!!!" like every other gacha out there. If you're going to write a story, you HAVE to have a character! They're not automatically relatable just because I got to pick a gender and then two or three lines of dialogue.
Nearly gave up on this many times but I have to spread propaganda for my headcanon... I’m convinced that K1-B0’s weaknesses were the inspiration for Miu’s murder plot — that he can be paralyzed with his emergency stop button (from Ch.1 FTE) or presumably with an Electrohammer (keyword “hammer”). Paralyzing Kokichi to make the murder only somewhat easier always seemed convoluted to me, but it makes sense she’d take that step for granted if the whole plan was formed around it in the first place.
My point being: Miu certainly realized she could’ve killed K1-B0 whenever she felt like it, especially knowing that he would have to die either way... But instead she spent countless hours literally rewriting the laws of reality just to give his Achilles’ heel to someone else.
gummygunk
romaincrisis
turnnoffyourmind
origamiaround
pixelskylines
stormborns
