“I hate to break it to you--“
Really? You really fucking think that @groovycrusadeperson is unaware of the absolute basic information you’re putting down here? You deliberately picked out a line that OP says “isn't really the debate here” and proceeded to ... debate that exact point. And used that same irrelevant point to split several hairs that nevertheless did nothing to detract from their original statement --
Random billionaires don’t get a say in how and when and how much of your privacy is breached.
And they don’t. You can try and deflect as much as you like from that, but random billionaires have exactly shit to say, ultimately, about the specifics of privacy laws and data protection. You wanna know who does? Behind the lobbies and the corporations and the Elon Musks who like to pretend that they’re in charge of anything significant?
The intelligentsia. The military top brass.
But you know what, since you decided to break out the condescension, I’ll return the favour and hate to break it to you that the Russos are not the “writers”, they’re the directors of the films. As an aside, the Russos have also stated that Tony was intentionally attempting to murder James Barnes with his own two hands. Do you also pop into discussions about CACW to pompously link that interview and the directors’ commentary, too? Nope. Looking at your blog, I can see that your directorial caping is only reserved for cases where it benefits you.
The avengers brushed aside Tony’s concerns quite a lot in Age of Ultron, and even if they didn’t, they don’t seem too worried about it either way. No one else besides Tony saw what was on the other side of the wormhole, and thought Loki was the one behind everything.
Except none of this is fact. You’re using conjecture as the basis for your argument, and then you think you can talk down to others? The Avengers did not “brush aside his concerns”, they were frustrated at him building a “murder bot” behind their backs after that bot tried to kill them all. And you know this! Because you went on to say ~and even if they didn’t~, meaning you’re aware that what you’re pointing out as canon is, in fact, fanon pulled out of your ass.
And the fact that you can sit there, and say with a completely straight face that the other Avengers (Thor, Bruce, Steve, Natasha, Clint, Rhodey, Nick, Maria) “don’t seem too worried” about defending the world that each of them has repeatedly risked life and limb for? What bullshit.
I’m not saying Tony knew there was someone working with Loki, but one doesn’t get a literal army within a few months by themselves.
Jesus, the condescension never ends. Fine, neither will mine. So, you can reach this glorious conclusion but you don’t think the other Avengers can? Are you for real?
As for Tony destroying the city, that did not happen in any way, shape, or form. [ ... ] Tony did not activate Ultron, did not finish the programming for U.L.T.R.O.N., and in no way intended for it to go insane and decide that the only way to protect the world, was to end it.
Look at this hair-splitting! He didn’t activate Ultron! Holy shit! HE didn’t start the fire, he just dumped gasoline all over the place and hung a sputtering firework over it, it’s not his fault a spark touched the oil! He didn’t intend for anything to burn! So, Tony can’t be blamed for his direct actions leading to the ruination of Sokovia, because of his sainted good intentions. Does everyone else get that same courtesy in your magnanimous book? Is Wanda Maximoff -- a poor Eastern European child who had to watch her parents die in front of her because of Tony’s weapons and thereby became hoodwinked into Strucker’s experiments -- pardoned for her unintended actions in AoU? Something tells me you don’t think so.
And hey, I hate to break it to you, but Ultron was imbued with Tony’s own personality. He calls Tony "dad”. And Tony? Calls himself a mad scientist and tells Bruce to embrace it too. Like father, like son. Or did you nod off during that Classic Tony Moment in AoU?
Tony is a scientist and a businessman, and cannot/will not show the World Leaders a design that is not functioning. If U.L.T.R.O.N had managed to work in the way it was meant to, I think the World Leaders would have sanctioned the program to make sure another New York 2012 would not have happened again.
Ah yes, World Leaders. The great, very wise elders who have watched over Earth for years, leading us from times of peace, to further times of peace. Long may they govern.
Who the fuck is “World Leaders”? It’s not a group. It’s not an organization. The closest the MCU comes to a “world leader” org is the World Security Council, who gave and sanctioned the order to nuke New York in 2012. Or are you talking about the CIA-published directory “World Leaders”? You wanna take a quick look at it and reassess that shit? Putin! Trump! Modi! Bolsonaro! Erdogan! Khamenei! Netanyahu! Do you think these officials would “sanction” the use of ULTRON to save the planet and humanity?
And he did not “blame it on the rest of the team.” When he spoke of the child, Charlie Spencer, it was of a horrible causality in their pursuit to do good.
Yeah, actually, he did. "We need to be put in check,” says Tony, after the mother of Charles Spencer blames him and him alone.
“You murdered him. In Sokovia. […] He’s dead and I blame you.”
Not the other Avengers. Miriam Sharpe came all the way out there to tell Tony Stark that she personally holds him responsible for the death of her son; he wasn’t taking the blame for the Avengers as a whole.
The Battle of New York, the S.H.I.E.L.D info dump, Johannesburg, and Sokovia all showed the world that superheroes needed to be put in check.
For a second, I wondered why you’d list incidences wherein the Avengers went to save human life, and extrapolate from it that they’re the ones who need to be held accountable for the loss of human life. And then I saw “SHIELD info dump”, and realized you’re one of those geniuses who thinks that Natasha’s release of NAZI-INFECTED SHIELD DATA (aka the MCU equivalent of WikiLeaks) onto the internet was responsible for mass fatalities, despite the fact that none of this is canon. In other words, more fanon that you’re pulling out of your ass.
Hundreds of people died in each scenario, and made people scared.
With that kind of obfuscation, you should write headlines for Breitbart.
BONY - alien invasion and a World Council sanctioned-nuke, averted thanks to the Avengers. Millions saved.
SHIELD WikiLeak - non-fucking-factor, unless you can give me an in-movie canon reference that the info dump resulted in the deaths of anyone, much less hundreds. Hidden Nazis outed world over after millions were saved thanks to the destruction of Project INSIGHT, a destruction that necessitated the SHIELD info dump. Natasha didn’t dump those files for shits and giggles.
Johannesburg - the funny thing is that Thaddeus Ross himself didn’t bring up Johannesburg at all during CACW, the movie that was supposed to set the stupid contrived stage for the “unlimited power and no supervision” plotline in the MCU -- a plotline which was meaningless by IW. But you’re mentioning it here. What’s your in-movie canon basis for the supposed “hundreds of lives lost here”? Because until you show your work, this is another moot point.
Sokovia - ah, the reason you came whining onto this post in the first place, because as a Tony stan you will never accept the fact that Tony is heavily responsible for Sokovia. I’d point out that I’m not even holding him solely responsible, and that he joined everyone else to save Sokovia (millions saved), but what’s the use? It’ll derail your whole victim narrative that we’re all big ol’ meanies attacking Iron Man with liiiiies and slaaaaander so I won’t bother.
Their governments worked with and within the UN to make a document that would put check and balances on such a task force, allow the world to see they were making efforts to make sure they stayed safe.
Your bizarre faith in organizations like the United Nations, who are absolutely splattered with innocent blood, is hilarious. You’re critical of everything else ... but the UN and the governments of ~117 countries~ get your unequivocal trust. Who runs those governments? Did the people within those nations get a say about this? Hell, fuck the Accords and fuck the Avengers -- did the citizens of those countries even elect their Heads of State? Are those governments democratically elected or are they a dictatorial shitshow or a banana republic? And what about the rest of the world? You realize 117 countries = ~60% of the world’s nations, right? But fuck the other ~40%, is that it? The other 78 countries and their citizens can go to hell. All hail the US Secretary of State!
If the Avengers were able to present a united front to the Accords, they would be able to get it amended more easily than if they didn’t show cooperation. But they could not ignore 117 governments/countries without consequences.
Yeah, because it’s that simple, huh. After all, the Sokovia Accords were written by immaculate angels with the human rights of enhanced individuals in mind. Not by, say, corrupt politicians with the desire to control those individuals and use them as weapons under the guise of accountability. And since we’re already in moron land, I guess they did find WMDs in Iraq!
My god. If you can say what you just said, then you have no understanding of how the UN works. You have no idea what it would take to amend and ratify a document such as the Accords, if Ross even allowed such a step to be taken in the first place. And as for a ~united front uwu~, the Avengers who signed the Accords were the only Avengers. Steve, Sam, Clint, and Wanda’s refusal to sign meant effective retirement. So it already was a united Avenger front, because those who didn’t sign were no longer considered Avengers.
And after handing the reins to Thaddeus Ross, the remaining Avengers’ hands were tied. Therefore, every single member of Team Accords, including Tony “Privatized World Peace” Stark, ended up violating the Accords eventually.
I hate to break it to you.
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