Himemiya Anthy/Tenjou Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena) vs Caitlyn/Vi (Arcane)
Anthy/Utena
Caitlyn/Vi
Voting ended onJan 17, 2025
This poll is a celebration of fandom and fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with some of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement of anything included in the bracket, and refrain from harassment.
Himemiya Anthy/Tenjou Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena) vs Caitlyn/Vi (Arcane)
Anthy/Utena
Caitlyn/Vi
Voting ended onJan 17, 2025
This poll is a celebration of fandom and fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with some of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement of anything included in the bracket, and refrain from harassment.
Himemiya Anthy/Tenjou Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena) vs Caitlyn/Vi (Arcane)
Anthy/Utena
Caitlyn/Vi
Voting ended onJan 17, 2025
This poll is a celebration of fandom and fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with some of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement of anything included in the bracket, and refrain from harassment.
if you're not obsessed with a fucked up female character i hope that changes for you soon. becoming obsessed with a genuinely deranged fictional woman will change your life.
In light of the release of season 2 of Arcane, a show I believe is stunning on both a visual and narrative level, I've been noticing a lot of discourse that suggests many people are missing the whole point of the show.
To preface this, I will be discussing American media in general and why I think people's interpretations may be missing some critical analysis elements.
American film has for a long time been through a lot of phases of either censorship or simple regulations that have a tendency to limit what content is available to the masses. On cable the restrictions are far worse than say on a streaming service. Cable means passing ratings and scrutiny from the public in ways that do not apply nearly as strictly on streaming services.
One notable aspect of this that has repeated itself over the course of American film and general media history is the idea of "what is appropriate" and usually the first things to be cut during periods of censorship are things that are sexual, violent, or contain morally grey areas (this is important).
A lot of Americans (myself included) were raised on the Disney formula. Meaning the ending is usually positive, the characters are clearly cut as being good or bad and there isn't a lot of room to debate what the right thing might be.
Arcane is one of those pieces of media that would have never passed any of the prior censorship periods. The obvious "why" is clearly the violence content and sexual elements, but more than that it's the open endedness and morally grey themes that make it unlike most American mainstream media.
If you're at all familiar with the graphic novel "Watchmen" I would say Arcane rings quite similar in its approach to moral ambiguity. All the characters in "Watchmen" are flawed and do morally reprehensible things. Yet, the takeaway is not that people are all horrible and deserve to die (which is the villain's main belief). Instead the point is that morality, redemption, and the idea of "who is good?" is a nonlinear concept. It is rare that anyone stagnates entirely in their growth. Some people take years to come into themselves.
On a writing front, the show is exceptional. In screenwriting you are often challenged to find the balance between the dialogue and the visuals. The dialogue is ONE tool of many in visual media. In Arcane so much of the story (as it should be) is told through character reactions. If you only watched the reactions you can parse the whole mood of each scene and get a sense of each character's state of mind.
In many shows (especially animation) in the US the dialogue is heavy. It's wordy and used as a crutch when a subtle emotive reaction in the character's acting would be far more powerful. I love films that make good use of silence or gut punchy pieces of dialogue that say so much without saying more than a few words. Arcane is a rare US based show in how it makes use of negative space in the moments so to speak.
In my screenwriting classes we talk about how Hollywood likes its media to be tied up neatly and often there is a hard push to make stories happier when it can compromise the essence of a story.
To bring us back to Arcane: The show thrives off of subtlety and subtext. Everyone in the show is trying to do what they believe is "right" but many go about it in varying levels of failure or success. And it is that fumbling, that messiness, and devastation in the face of closure that isn't typical for what some viewers might expect.
Keep in mind: a story can be complete even if the character(s) are unhappy. What matters is that there is a sense of closure. That closure can be a classic tragedy where everyone dies (ie Shakespeare's tragedies). Sometimes an ending is abstract and that is okay too.
It is important to watch media from other places because it expands one's ability to interpret non linear stories and better understand complex characters.
Arcane is chock full of complex characters and subtext. Which is not to say I don't think there is room to improve. I do wish there was one more season to give the arcs room to breathe. But all in all, Arcane exceeded expectations.
Now to jump into my breakdown...
I am looking at this as a piece of media. Meaning that I am analyzing the arcs and dialogue as an animator and screenwriter would. This is a piece of fiction at the end of the day.
Each character has their own morally grey arcs I will examine here.
Here we go!
Vander
Vander is seen as an icon of the Undercity. A man who represented where they wanted to go to gain their freedom. In season 1 we open to see the results of Vander's attempt at fighting for that freedom on the bridge. While he had good intentions, the result killed Vi and Powder's parents. This decision leads to Vander becoming more passive and losing the respect of the people who used to idolize him.
We see his slow descent in those early episodes. Again, Vander acts out of love and compassion for his adoptive family and his people. But in the end Silco's version of the Undercity, of Zaun, is what survives in season 1.
Now if we consider Vander and Silco side by side we see Vander is someone who tried to fight but saw what it did and tried to become a peacekeeper. On the other side Silco is the violent result of the events on the bridge.
Neither character is portrayed as being wholly correct. Vander's non-violent approach is what helps him protect his family but it doesn't address the true source of the conflict between Piltover and Zaun. It rather treats the symptoms in a temporary way. This is a flaw that other characters share.
And of course the thing that ties all their motives together is FAMILY.
So morality in American media tends to be very binary. Even within Arcane you have Vander and Silco who represent the non-violent and violent approaches to solving the conflict.
In the end of season 1 Vander gives in to his violent side to protect his family. He takes shimmer, the thing that he KNOWS will violate the peaceful moral code he's kept since the events on the bridge. Unwittingly, it is his passiveness that causes a chain reaction of events.
Again, he is trying to do the right thing through the wrong methods.
However, Silco's extreme solution isn't much better. His methods result in a mass spread shimmer addiction epidemic. The whole undercity is overrun by his chembarons and factories. Factories, we learn later use child labor in addition to ravaging the population through its control.
There is also no doubt that Jinx was a part of enforcing that. Something Silco roped her into but she continued to follow even though it went against her original ethos as Powder.
Powder/Jinx
She is the master of the split between violence and non-violence represented in a character. Powder is the side that wants to invent and build things to help her family. However, even in season 1, we see her inventions are largely designed to explode (even if they are at the early stages unsuccessful).
In the timebomb episode in season 2 we see Powder as she could have been if she never turned out like Silco: using her inventions for destruction and not caring who gets hurt.
The timebomb Powder is stuck. She can't see to move past her grief of losing Vi.
One thing I love about this show is that it shows us the different ways grief can manifest. Sometimes grief is quiet and unsettling like Powder's is in the timebomb universe. It disables her ability to DO things.
Then there's the uglier or less pleasant sides of grief. The kinds that rip people apart.
Even Silco in the flashback with Felicia is a warm and calm character. Not the manipulative cold heartedly unhinged man we see in season 1. The loss of Felicia set off both Vander and Silco's grief. One chose vengeance and violence, the other chose to step back.
Both ended up killed protecting their daughters. Again, the motivation is FAMILY.
As an audience we can see Powder's descent into her worst side in season 1. Though some of it isn't fully shown we get the gist of how she fell in the six years Vi was away.
PARALLEL TO CAITLYN AND VI: In a sense both Vi and Jinx were captured and forced into the worst versions of themselves. Vi spent time in prison (because Silco told Marco to remove Vi from the picture).
Jinx is similar to Caitlyn in how both were picked up and manipulated in a moment of vulnerability. Both had lost so much and since grief can often lead to rage- both Silco and Ambessa did whatever it took to feed that rage.
Silco
Silco's arc is one we only get glimpses of, but is very connected to the core themes of moral ambiguity in Arcane.
We learn in season 2 that it was Vander's snapping out grief that caused him to lash out at Silco. Up to that point they shared a dream. Felicia's death was the breaking point for both of them. Silco sinks into a darker place while Vander tries to find a new way of life.
Vander keeps his promise to Felicia to protect Vi and Powder. Silco abandons that for the pursuit of vegeance on Piltover and the poisoning of the Undercity.
The line "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?" speaks directly to the family theme. Family can make or break a person. It isn't until Silco realizes how much Jinx means to him, when he is forced to consider the same question as Vander did with letting Vi turn herself in, that Silco chooses family.
Again, is Silco a "good" character? No, not in the strict sense. But he is a compelling character whose arc ties deeply into the themes of the main storyline.
Caitlyn
I've written and thought a lot about Caitlyn as a character because she is so often oversimplified and underappreciated.
The Caitlyn we see in season 1 is the girl who wants to believe in the better outcome. She is pure in ways other characters are not. Because she wholeheartedly thinks that by being an enforcer and having good intentions she can solve a conflict older than herself, Caitlyn fails at that.
This is not to say she is a bad character. Many characters who are pure often run into the age old "is it possible to solve things without violence?"
Such examples in cartoons include Ang from Avatar: The Last Airbender. He truly doesn't consider that killing Ozai is the expectation until the last season. But Ang struggles with GRIEF over the genocide of his entire people. His anger shows up multiple times throughout the show and each time Ang is disgusted and dissociated from himself when he enters the Avatar State in a fit of rage.
Again, this grief is NOT pretty. Ang is wrecked by it. Because it is fundamentally not who he is as a character. Ang as a character would not kill Ozai.
The same can be said of Steven from Steven Universe. His whole character is a shield. He is a kid who deeply loves his family and wants to protect them.
How he goes about that is flawed, but that's again, why we have a fucking story. If the characters never fucked up nothing would happen.
Now, for Caitlyn, her arc needed to be set in a way that when she falls, it makes her question her methods. Up to the end of season 1 she has done everything she can to help people. She goes into the burning building on Progress Day to save the same fellow enforcers who hate her whether she does a good thing or not.
All she is to them is a name. A piece of an outdated system.
Then Jinx blows up the Tower (a symbol of the broken system) and Ambessa takes advantage of Caitlyn's pain to mold her into a puppet tyrant. But the thing people seem to miss are those small moments where Caitlyn hesitates or questions what she's doing.
Even in the scene where Caitlyn is named as commander she doesn't immediately accept it. Ambessa plays off the fact that Caitlyn is running on raw emotions. She is NOT thinking clearly.
Again, if any of you have ever lost a loved one, I doubt you can say all your emotions are neat and tidy. Even in the most typical circumstances, grief can turn us into things we aren't.
In complicated circumstances, like Caitlyn's, her relationship to her mother is tied to that of the Kiramman name. She may hate what her name stands for, but that is because it has never been hers alone. When Cassandra is killed in the Tower attack, Caitlyn feels like she has to preserve her mother somehow. And she does so by hunting down the only thing that remains of her mother.
Caitlyn's plight for vengeance is not unique to her within Arcane either. To reiterate:
●Vander: marched against Piltover and then later turned to violence and vegeance to save his kids.
●Silco: Also marched against Piltover. Turned to violence and revenge after losing a loved one.
●Jinx: Lost her whole family and found one in Silco. Seeks revenge against Piltover and the enforcers for her family. Also takes her revenge out on Vi for abandoning her family.
If we consider other pieces of media in terms of portrayal of revenge we get the positive one (that is largely a binary example yet a fantastic one nonetheless): Princess Bride.
Inigo Montoya's whole character is focused on revenge. Yet it is never seen as something off, even by Count Rugan who killed Inigo's father. It's EXPECTED.
Yet when we come across the revenge arcs in Arcane, people are unable to see the nuances within Caitlyn's character or how simple her motives are.
Caitlyn wants to kill Jinx.
By the end of Season 1 Jinx has:
●Helped Silco control the Undercity through shimmer addiction
●Killed anyone who gets in her way or the way of Silco's machinations.
●Tried to kill Vi multiple times
●Kidnapped and tortured Caitlyn
●Kidnapped and killed Silco
●Killed half the council (including Caitlyn's mother)
Putting aside Caitlyn's personal motives, she has every reason to fear and loathe Jinx. She has done so much to hurt others in the short period Caitlyn is aware of the specifics. And the deeper Caitlyn dives, the worse it looks.
However, this is where the brilliance of these crisscrossed arcs comes in.
Both Jinx and Caitlyn operate by biases older than themselves. Most of it isn't even conscious. Remember in season 2 the mention of "The cycle of killing only ends when you walk away"? That right there is a core theme.
Both Jinx and Caitlyn need to walk away. Vi needs to walk away. But for most of the show they keep walking back into the conflict whether they do it with the intention to fight or not.
Caitlyn is just as mixed up as Jinx or Vi. But for different reasons. It is important, again, to keep in mind that the arc Caitlyn has isn't the writers saying "oh she's horrible for blah blah blah" it's a reinforcement of the idea that killing is a cycle that starts with grief and only ends when love is chosen.
And that is why it makes sense for Vi to come into play because while the love in Arcane is not exclusive to romance, it is important to pay attention to all its forms to fully understand why it works.
Vi
Another character that is oversimplified and reduced down to the minor plotpoints and ignoring the nuances of her character.
Vi is also morally gray. She starts out innocent like Powder and Caitlyn. They are all just kids existing and surviving until the lab is blown up thanks to Powder dropping the hex gemstone.
As season 1 unfolds, Vi teeters on the same precipice that both Vander and Silco did years ago. Like the Vander of old, Vi feels a responsibility for the Undercity and a visceral need to take revenge.
"You know but you don't know," is what Vander tells Vi. He explains that if Vi keeps down her road of anger she'll end up like those who died on the bridge.
Vi doesn't stop because she is a character who leads by action. Which is why she works well with Caitlyn, who is also a character who prefers action.
Vi's thematic need to protect her family lands her tragically in the opposite place she had meant to be. Now without her family, Vi is alone in prison for six years. All she knows is hurt, pain, loneliness and violence. Again, THEME.
Caitlyn is the one who digs up the threads and evidence to link (unintentionally) back to Vi. The only reason Caitlyn has that connection is because Vi attacks another prisoner (Caitlyn's source/lead).
After seeing how Vi is treated Caitlyn forges the documents to get Vi released. Caitlyn didn't have to do that necessarily to achieve her goals. But here we have an example of two levels of goals:
1. Primary Goal: Find Jinx and hold her accountable.
2. Sub goal: Help Vi escape a shitty environment.
Vi's goals in this instance overlap with Caitlyn's. Though Vi at this point is hellbent on finding "Powder" someone that even Caitlyn realizes well before Vi does is dead/gone. But because Vi's biggest flaw is that she is not capable of accepting that people change, Vi is continually railroaded by her rose tinted lenses.
While Vi grounds Caitlyn in confronting her internalized biases, Caitlyn does the same for Vi. Their fight in S2E3 isn't over anything new. There's the larger theme of classicism and biases represented in them at play. And then there's the fact that Vi is losing her ability to fight. She is tired of it. Of the cycle. Vi has been in it her whole life and when she is faced with the same choice as Vander's years ago, to kill a sibling, Vi can't do it. It's reflective of Vi's acceptance that yes, Powder is gone and all that's left is Jinx. But also that Vi doesn't want to keep fighting.
In this moment Caitlyn and Vi switch roles. Caitlyn loses sight of the vision she has for the world they live in. She decides killing Jinx is the solution to ending the suffering on a larger scale. In a sense, Vi can only see the smaller personal picture and Caitlyn is always focused on the larger issues. It is when Vi loses Jinx and Caitlyn that Vi regresses to her violent outlet through pitfighting.
Caitlyn also regresses by resorting to anger and violence (theme anyone?). No one is exempt from the violence in this show. There are degrees of moral righteousness but for every good mark, each character has a negative one.
Even Ekko, who is arguably one of the most morally sound characters, gave up on Powder when she started to change into Jinx. In the Timebomb episode Ekko sees the Powder that could have been. The one he is so sure is the right one because she never becomes violent and doesn't suffer from mental breakdowns/hallucinations.
This ties into another thing Arcane does super well is showing that loving someone is sometimes hard when they change in ways you don't understand. And losing pieces of yourself to disease, injury, mental illness can be challenging when the world tells you that you need to be fine.
Arcane takes Vi, a woman with her traumatized past self and says it's okay to not know how to heal.
Arcane takes Jinx, another traumatized girl who is haunted by her mistakes and says "you are still worth loving."
Arcane takes Viktor, a man with a chronic pain condition and disability and says "imperfection is still beautiful."
Arcane takes Caitlyn, a woman who wants to break free of her namesake trapped in an endless cycle of corruption and untenable expectations and says "You don't have to wear the crown. You don't have to be a part of something big to be loved."
Ekko comes back because he realizes he also needs to accept Jinx as she is. Just like Vi.
Vi finally accepts that Caitlyn isn't who she used to be but that her actions in letting Jinx go and relinquishing her title and place on the council proves that their growth isn't linear. It's grey and messy. It's full of steps and missteps. Both Vi and Caitlyn aren't done in their journey.
"I am the dirt underneath your fingernails" is a very subtle way of Vi saying "Look, this is gonna be rough but I am okay with how we change." It's not direct. Vi is a blunt person but she is also more of an action person. Which is why Caitlyn's apology through actions is what convinced Vi that HER Caitlyn wasn't gone, just different like Powder and Jinx.
If Caitlyn had apologized outright, I doubt Vi would have accepted it at that moment in S2E8 when she and Caitlyn are arguing. Remember how many times Caitlyn says what she means in season 1 but Vi brushes her off? Vi believes Caitlyn when she ACTS like who she claims to be.
I've seen some great breakdowns of Caitlyn's "I know!" line. This is another example of subtext rather than blatantly stating an apology. In real life obviously you'd want a direct apology and ownership. But since this is fiction, you can do it in a very subtle way and get the same result (but add more tension).
If Caitlyn had just gone "I'm sorry for hitting you and yadda yadda," then Vi's response would have been another outburst of rage. Why? Because Caitlyn's actions are what Vi is questioning, not her words.
So when Caitlyn's aguished guilt ridden yell of "I know!" Followed by a quieter "I know," is more powerful than a direct apology. Caitlyn then explains that it wasn't HER choice to take Jinx away.
[source: arcanegifs tumblr]
Also, at this point Caitlyn has already turned on Ambessa, saved Vander, and seen that her anger is dying out. Caitlyn hears Vi say "save my dad" and THAT is the pivotal moment. Not the jail cell scene and not the fight/argument they have in episode 8.
[source: arcanegifs tumblr]
Vi is accusing Caitlyn of going along with Ambessa and in that moment Caitlyn lets her guard down. She lets Vi see the exhaustion, pain and remorse. Again, it's all subtext. But there.
Another element of Arcane and its morally grey structure is that people make the mistake of assuming that just because no one outright says "hey this is wrong" it's a sign of approval. Which is not true here at all.
Character arcs and gradual and often subtexual changes in FICTION are what demonstrates their values.
For Vi, this means seeing Caitlyn bounce back and start to own up to her actions and through it, accepting CHANGE.
For Caitlyn this means accepting that her best self is one where she is acting out of love on a personal level. Letting go of the Kiramman name is how Caitlyn is able to potentially look for Jinx for Vi. Because of love.
Caitlyn allows Vi to be selfish, to live for herself, and to see her own worth. When Caitlyn flounders, she makes Vi doubt it. But we see that Caitlyn never actually forgot Vi based on Ambessa's line saying "Your absence left a vacancy I could fill." The grief and rage for Caitlyn was stronger than her love and hope for Vi.
Vi resorts back to her old ways and even accidentally hits Isha. But it's Vi and Caitlyn reuniting that affirms that their pain, grief, and anger cannot be what wins the day.
In this sense, the show has every character end their respective killing and hate cycles. At no point does the show insinuate that anyone is perfect or morally sound. Because no one really is.
Viktor
Where to begin with Viktor? His arc begins with him trying to find a way to help the Undercity and himself in the process through science.
Viktor can be seen as a sort of "what if" of Jinx had she been taken into Piltover. His ultimate goal is to use technology to better the world. A goal Jayce shares and sparks their dive into Hex tech.
There is always the question of how good is pure power when it can corrupt. This applies to science, moral codes, governments, and social evironments.
Heimerdinger warns that the arcane is a source of destruction. Viktor has seen shimmer evolve since he was a boy and seen that it can destroy people/life. He doesn't realize what he has seen until later but it stays with him. He sees the extremes of scientific progress through Singed and still makes his own mistakes.
Viktor's only value is seen as his contribution to science. He laments to Heimerdinger that people will remember Hextech and Jayce, but not Viktor himself.
He strives to make his mark by overworking and when he discovers that the arcane can replace his body, he lets it, believing it is the better way.
This escalates to a head when the core swallows up Skye and proves to Viktor he has gone too far. Yet, even after he tells Jayce to shut down the hexcore, Jayce chooses to save Viktor despite the risks on a world level.
Viktor loses part of himself and takes on one extreme as a healer and then immediately after as an overlord who wants to control people in order to prevent suffering. Sound familiar? It's a classic villain trope that they do an extreme solution that is often reasoned as "for the greater good" but is usually morally backwards.
Viktor himself is not a villain but he goes so far over the line he stops caring for people the way he used to.
Jayce is Viktor's anchor because they stand for the two sides of science: the rational/formulaic and the social/worldly impact that is more emotionally driven.
Jayce
Like Caitlyn, Jayce was raised in Piltover for most of his life. He wasn't born into wealth but because of his success as an inventor he swiftly adopts the more Piltovian way of thinking.
Viktor is Jayce's check/balance point. When Jayce questions the power of his work, Viktor encourages Jayce to keep going. Jayce slips into some biases and Viktor is quick to say "I am from the undercity." To remind Jayce why they are doing this research.
To Jayce, the extent of Viktor's disease and the conditions of the Undercity aren't concrete until Jayce is directly confronted with the reality of it. First in the form of Viktor's rapidly deteriorating condition and then later when Jayce tag teams with Vi to raid one of the chem factories.
Jayce is disillusioned into inaction, which as we know from Vander can be a double edged sword. Jayce soon tries to negotiate with the council and with Silco. Both end unsuccessfully.
Jayce is swept up in the mess of the Hexcore and sent to another dimension where he is forced to confront the ramifications of his actions. He is twisted into "killing" Viktor then later deciding to stay with Viktor to end the cycle.
Both Jayce and Viktor see the world in idealistic ways that often clash with reality but they balance out when both remember that being human, being flawed, isn't bad, it's just how people are.
To truly understand Arcane and the character arcs, the ideas we carry of binary "good" and "evil" need to be discarded. That is not the point of this show.
Arcane centers around:
●Family and family conflicts
●Grief and how it can change someone
●The thin line between hate and love
●Corruption in places of ultimate power ("Absolute power corrupts absolutely")
●Class Differences
If at any point you think one character is better because of which side they're on, I would suggest rewatching the show. Because at the end it isn't about who is right.
It's literally about ending the cycle, changing ourselves and ditching a corrupted system.
The show ends with Zaun having reps on the council. Caitlyn and many other former members step away. Caitlyn is using her maps to locate Jinx. She is healing and so is Vi.
It's an open ended grey ending. I feel that people are trying to equate this to real life when it should be viewed as a piece of fictional media. We are all in this together is the message and we can't keep doing this "us and them" dance lest we repeat the cycle.
I so appreciate what Arcane has done on a personal level. Trauma is sometimes the place where we feel the worst. Regression is common when traumatic events occur (for those not familiar with the psychology term, regression means you default back to a prior state of being). In extreme cases regression can result in someone acting like their younger selves or in Jinx's case, forming hallucinated versions of her lost family.
For Vi it's not being able to accept change, even in herself. Which can be its own form of regressive behavior.
For Caitlyn it's a textbook PTSD response. Flight/fight. As someone who has PTSD it was hard to watch Caitlyn's spiral and cathartic. Her wild firing when they raid the arcade in S2 Act I is raw in a brutally beautiful way. That need to defend yourself even if you don't even know what you're fighting is captured so well by the Arcane crew. That residual fury isn't pretty. It's hard to cope with.
But I think Arcane does a phenomenal job of showing that we are more than where we come from or that our disabilities and flaws aren't things to fear or be ashamed of.
For a show to be that bold with both queer messaging and disability messaging is worth applauding.
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More analytical posts from other Tumblr users I liked:
hiiii i want to bother u with questions and statements!! :))
idk if its unoriginal and maybe someones asked you this one before but i wanna know what fanfiction/media tropes are your favorites!! or least favorites too, if you wanna go there 😋
hi!!
i appreciate the question and sorry for the late answer i really had to sit and think on this
i think the tropes/types of media i gravitate towards are:
• omegaverse (usually of my fav ships in media i consume, always wlw for some reason)
• hurt/comfort but it’s more comfort than hurt
• i love all kinds of horror but there’s something about psychological horror that makes it superior to me
• i love attention to detail (jokes with deeper meanings, chekov’s gun moments, etc.)
i don’t really care for:
• really angsty works unless they have a happy ending that makes it all pay off
• romanticized depictions of serious topics (but i can concede that this is usually subjective and there are people who even see the mere portrayal of some subject matter as problematic so)
thanks again for the question really got me thinking :3
I think some people forget that some literature and some media is meant to be deeply uncomfortable and unsettling. It's meant to make you have a very visceral reaction to it. If you genuinely can't handle these stories then you are under no obligation to consume them but acting as if they have no purpose or as if people don't have a right to tell these stories, stories that often relate to the darkest or most disturbing parts of life, then you should do some introspection.
I’ve read some things that deal in sad/dark/actually depressing and disturbing subject matter. I’ve loved them and the points they make without endorsing the events portrayed.
It’s always disappointing to get online and see that the conversation is “X thing shouldn’t exist” on the grounds that it made somebody feel badly. It was meant to make you feel that way and it’s normal that it did - it’s okay that you stop reading it or don’t finish it but I am BEGGING you to consider why it made you uncomfortable and why the author felt the need (if the answer isn’t immediately obvious, as it can be). There isn’t shame in something putting you off so badly that you shelve it.
The sterilization of reality is a detriment to all who exist within it. To censor stories with painful themes is to erase the reality that such stories are based in some horrific truth and works to erase the reality that many people have endured.
This trend or whatever we want to call it has gotten so bad that I listened to an entire lecture from somebody about how awful a book was and how it shouldn’t exist at all, how the author was a terrible person for concocting it and how it hurt people. When I asked what the book was, this person not only could barely recall the name but HAD NEVER READ IT. I bought the book. I read the book. It accomplished its task beautifully and I found it to be a cathartic experience. I also understood how it could make people so uncomfortable and would never judge anybody for setting it down.
It’s okay not to like something and distance yourself from it. Remember that those rules apply only to you, though, because they speak only to your own psyche.
Periodic reminder that one of the many roles of fiction is microdosing on big scary feelings so you build resilience, empathy, understanding, and defense against the real thing.
oh boy, one of the websites i used to download old nintendo games has started taking down some of their games at the request of nintendo of america. DON'T PASS AROUND ILLEGAL DOWNLOAD SITES SO PUBLICALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you want to spread a download websites, do it in private chats and dms and whatever. do not go onto a public square, yelling HEY EVERYBODY! HERE'S A PLACE YOU CAN GET EXPENSIVE STUFF FOR FREE! MAKE SURE THE AUTHORITIES DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT! IT WOULD BE REALLY BAD IF THE COPS FOUND OUT, BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISTRIBUTE THIS STUFF! DON'T TELL THE COPS!
you wouldn't put up posters advertising where to find your illegal drugs guy because you love his drugs so much, you shouldn't go around spreading the website where one guy dedicates his time do illegally distributing video games.
I caught up with Oshi No Ko, so here are some opinions and meta thoughts.
AN INVERSION OF NAOKI URASAWA'S MONSTER
Oshi No Ko and Monster are 2 very different stories, but some plot elements and conflicts are similar:
Monster is the story of a surgeon, who must track down a serial killer whose life he has saved. This monster is one of 2 twins and the story deals with the brother and sister uncovering their past
Oshi No Ko is the story of a doctor, who is murdered and reborn as his favourite idol's child. Together with him there is a twin sister and they must track down the killer of their mother. The series leads the twins to find closure with their previous selves, so they can embrace a new life
In short, in both series there is a pair of twins and a murderer. It is just that in Monster the twins have no memories nor sense of selves, while in Oshi No Ko they have too many memories and baggage.
Finally, in Monster the characters must uncover the truth behind Johan, while in Oshi No Ko they must find out who Ai really is. The former is about understanding a monster, whereas the latter is about empathizing with a goddess.
(A)IDOL
The invincible smile that tears up the media
Wanna know her secret, so mysterious
Even the things she lacks end up in her area
Such a perfect liar, you are:
[Miss] ingenious, godly idol
(You're my savior, you're my saving grace)
In religion an idol is:
An object which represents a deity, so it can become a manifestation of the god itself
A fake god, at least in monotheistic religions, like Judaism, Christianity and Islam
So, idols are gods. And yet, they are fake gods. In particular, monotheistic religions refuse idols because they are over-simplified representations of the divine.
Similarly, people worship celebrities, but only aknowledge their simplistic personas. Actors and idols are put on a pedestal, but also objectified:
So, what'd you eat today?
What's your favorite book?
And if you wanna go to play, where are you gonna go?
I haven't eaten at all
That's a secret
No matter what you ask
She's elusive, evasive
Yet still shining bright;
Her secret: out of sight, as if visible, has the taste of honey
They aren't seen as people with complex emotions, but as blank slates fans project their feelings onto.
This is why Ai Hoshino is the ultimate idol:
Drawing everyone's eyes
You are the perfect, ultimate idol
Never to appear again
A reincarnation of Venus
With that smile, with that "I love you"
You captivate everyone
Even if those eyes, those words, are false
They make up a perfect love (Ai)
Ai's whole self is a lie. Not because she is malicious, but rather because she lacks a sense of self:
She is not sure of her own emotions and can't tell truth from lies. Everything is mixed and unclear. What does it even mean to love? What does Ai even want?
Ai is supposed to embody love. After all, she is associated to the Morning Star, which is called Venus, also known as the Goddess of Love. And yet, Ai's true eyes are dark:
Similarly, the word "ai" means love, but our idol's name is written with no kanji, which makes it the Japanese transcription of the English word for eye.
Ai's name is the sound of love, but with no kanjis (no meaning) attached. Ai is an empty love with empty eyes. This is the pun she is built on.
Still, why is that so? Well, Ai's parents don't put kanjis in her name, just like they don't love her:
So, Ai's character is defined by these 2 ideas:
I have never been loved by anyone
Nor have I loved anyone else
On the one hand she was never loved. On the other hand she has never loved. Because of this, she thinks of herself as a fake.
AI (PURPLE) = AQUA (BLUE) + RUBY (RED)
Ai has stars in both her purple eyes. Aqua and Ruby instead have only 1 star each. Moreover, Aqua has blue eyes, while Ruby has red eyes. The idea is very simple. They are Ai's 2 sides:
Aqua is blue, right, mind and an actor
Ruby is red, left, heart and an idol
Together they make Ai, down to her 2 parallel careers (as an actress and as an idol). That said, the twins' foiling with their mother gets deeper:
As Miyako highlights, both Aqua and Ruby are liars. It is just that they lie about opposite things. On the one hand Aqua hides his most positive and vulnerable side. On the other hand Ruby hides her negative feelings. Aqua always sulks, while Ruby always smiles.
Aqua suppresses his wish to love others and to be happy with them
Ruby suppresses her fear to be unloved and abandoned by those around her
In short, each twin explores one of Ai's complexes (to love and to be loved). They really are the 2 faces of Ai (love).
AQUA - THE UNLOVING ACTOR
Aqua's story starts with Gorou Amamiya:
Gorou is a person strongly defined by guilt, which is at the root of his backstory. His mother was a young girl, who died by giving birth to him. As a result, Gorou feels he lives at her expenses and does all he can to rectify this mistake. For example, he becomes an obstetrician, even if he really wants to be a surgeon. Not only that, but he ends up developing a saviour complex. He feels it is his failure that Sarina dies, even if her illness can't be cured and has nothing to do with Gorou's area of expertise.
So, it is really no surprise that once Ai arrives, he projects on her the 2 people he could not save:
Ai is Sarina's favourite idol and a young girl like her
Ai is a teenage mother and is desperate to give birth in secret, just like Gorou's own mother
Ai represents Gorou's chance of redemption and catharsis. He could not save neither his mom nor Sarina, but he can help Ai. She needs the kind of doctor he is and this time he can make things right. However, Gorou is negated this closure and gets killed and reborn as Ai's own son. A son, who is destined to witness his mother's death. This time again, Aqua is powerless and can't save Ai. So, the story repeats and Aqua is left broken:
Aqua's real wish is to save people, but he keeps failing, so he chooses the path of revenge. He becomes his own antithesis.
He feels he doesn't deserve to live happily with others, but his wish to connect is too strong and he ends up forging some of the deepest bonds in the series:
He insists he is only focused on revenge, but ends up warming up to Kana and Akane to the point he goes out of his way to support them multiple times. Even when it doesn't help his avenge quest.
This is made clear in recent chapters, as well. Aqua has decided to give up on all his bonds. He cuts ties with Akane, decides to manipulate Kana and betrays Ruby's trust. He insists he is ready to go to hell alone. And yet, even after he takes such a dark turn, he can't help, but to save Ruby:
As Crow Girl says, this is a bad move on Aqua's side. His revenge would be easier if Ruby hated him, but he lets his true feelings out. He tries to repress his love and care for others. And yet, it keeps manifesting through the cracks of his vengeful persona. Aqua decides not to love, but he still does.
RUBY - THE UNLOVED IDOL
Ruby's story starts with Sarina Tendouji:
Sarina's life is doomed by her illness, which results in her parents abandoning her. Not only does she suffer physically, but she feels unloved. Despite that, she refuses to give up and laces on 2 people, who become her personal lights (stars):
Ai is the girl Sarina wishes to be. A person who is showered with love, as she shines brightly and moves freely on a stage.
Gorou is a parental substitude, as he is the only adult, who supports Sarina throughout her illness. He is even the person who stays with her, while she dies.
So, Ai and Gorou are around when Sarina's parents aren't, which is why she ends up idolizing them. Ai becomes some kind of ideal self, while Gorou becomes her first crush. The truth, though, is that they are the 2 pillars of Sarina's life.
Ironically, Sarina's make believe family becomes Ruby's real one. In particular, Ai becomes a mother, who loves her children with all her heart. This is healing for Ruby, who projects her wish for love on Ai:
It is Ai's strong emotions, which make it possible for Ruby to recover from the loss of her mother:
Ruby pursues the career of idol earnestly to become a star who never lies. And yet, she keeps lying to herself, as she refuses to confront Sarina's past. This negation is why her reaction to Gorou's death is so strong. This discovery becomes a catalyst for all of Ruby's negative feelings:
Ruby becomes her own antithesis and starts to climb up high through manipulation and lies. It is implied she weakens her relationships and later on she enters a violent fight with Aqua, which breaks their bond.
And yet, when Ruby hits rock bottom and confronts the painful truth that her parents have abandoned Sarina, it is Aqua who comes to her rescue:
Even if Ruby breaks their relationship and is prepared to live without trusting anyone anymore, she is still loved. The girl who fears rejection and abandonement is loved even in her darkest moment.
IDOL + FANS = MOTHER + CHILDREN
Aqua and Ruby are opposites. Aqua is scared to be loved and can't let go of Gorou. Ruby is scared to be unloved and can't face Sarina. And yet, they are also the same. Both project their deeper issues on both each other and Ai.
Gorou's feelings over his mother are projected on Sarina. Similarly, he projects his feelings for Sarina on Ai
Sarina's feelings over her mother are projected on Gorou. Later on, she decides to become like Ai because of her promise to Gorou
In short, Gorou wants to protect Ai because of Sarina and Sarina wants to become like Ai because of Gorou. As a result, Ai ends up as the object of their fantasies and wishes. A real godly idol.
Obviously, Gorou and Sarina's feelings towards Ai grow deeper and more complex as they are reborn as her twins. Slowly, their relationship goes from that of idol and fans to that of mother and children.
So, Aqua and Ruby's story is about overcoming the idealization of Ai. Both as fans towards their favourite idol and as children towards their mother. After all, isn't a mother their child's idol?
SUSANOO, AMATERASU AND MARIA
Among other things, the theme of idolisation is conveyed through the religious motif of the Hoshino Family.
Even the flowing sweats are beautiful Aqua
These eyelids that hid the Ruby within
The lyrics reference the legend of Susanoo and Amaterasu:
According to tradition, the 3 god siblings Susanoo, Tsukuyomi and Amterasu are born from the creator god Izanagi. as he washes his face in a river. Tsukuyomi (Moon Goddess) is born from Izanagi's right eye, Amaterasu (Sun Goddess) from his left eye and Susanoo (Sea God) from his nose. In short:
Aqua is a composite version of Tsukuyomi and Susanoo. He has inherited Ai's right eye, like Tsukuyomi. However, the opening associates him to his mother's sweat, like Susanoo is born from Izanagi blowing his nose. Finally, his name links him to the sea
Ruby alludes to Amaterasu. She has inherited Ai's left eye, the opening links her to her mother's eyes and she herself mentions the goddess
This reference loosely comments Aqua and especially Ruby's arcs.
Amaterasu and Susanoo enter a fight, which leaves the Goddess crying and depressed. She hides in a cave and without the light of the sun, the world is left in darkness. The other Gods come up with a plan to lure Amaterasu out of her prison. In particular, the God of Enterteinment Ame-no-Uzume organizes a celebration for a new bright Goddess. Amaterasu gets curious and eventually comes out from the cave, so the world gets sunlight back.
Does any of this sound familiar?
Ame-no-Uzume is mentioned multiple times together with Amaterasu. Moreover, the characters visit the Goddess of Enterteinment's temple and they metaphorically enter Amaterasu's cave:
What the story does is clear, right? Ruby's arc is loosely an inversion of Amaterasu's story.
The Sun Goddess enters a fight with her brother and hides in a cave, only to be rescued by the Goddess of Enterteinment. Ruby is guided by Crow Girl (who could be a composite character between Yagatarasu and Ame-no-Uzume herself) and enters a cave, where she finds Gorou's body. This leads to Ruby going through her eclipse phase, where her eyes go dark. Eventually, she is helped by her brother and she finds her inner light again.
It is possible that Aqua's story will mirror Susanoo's in a similar way. After all, the God of the Sea is famous for killing a monstrous serpent to protect a Princess and for finding a Magical Sword within the beast. This may reference Aqua's quest for revenge, who leads him to find a princess (Akane-Princess Saya) and a blade (Kana-Tsurugi). That said, it is too soon to say.
As a final note, Ruby and Aqua's fight ties into the mythological motif. After all, Amaterasu enters into conflicts with both Susanoo and Tsukuyomi. In Amaterasu and Susanoo's case, they go through a divination ritual, so that Susanoo can prove his good intentions. Susanoo passes the trial, but the aftermath leads to the siblings fighting. When it comes to Ruby and Aqua, Ruby gets angry at Aqua for betraying Ai. As a result, Aqua has to mend his bond with Ruby by revealing his past self. To do so, he proves his identity through the Ai-keychan (a divine sign). He passes the trial.
What's most interesting about these references is Ame-no-Uzume's role. The Goddess of Enterteinment is an ally of Amaterasu, but Crow Girl leads the characters towards darkness. Thematically, she may embody the darkest part of the enterteinment world, which finds fun in people suffering.
So, what about Ai? What is her religious symbolism? Let's turn to Christianity:
Sing, dance, flutter, I am Maria —
Right, lying is the most exquisite form of love
Mary is famous for having Jesus, while still a virgin. She is so perfect that God chooses her to bear his child. Similarly, Ai is an idol and is requested to be pure, so for her to have a sexual partner is out of question.
Still, Aqua and Ruby's reaction to the idea of a father is interesting. It speaks of their idealization of Ai both as her children and as her 2 biggest fans. At the same time, it betrays a wish to repress everything related to the final member of the Hoshino family.
MEPHISTO
As @hamliet explains in her meta, Hikaru Kamiki's name means God of Light, which is a reference to Lucifer, the fallen angel turned king of hell. It is a fitting imagery for Ai's enemy. Ai is Aqua and Ruby's goddess, so her killer can only be the devil. Similarly, Lucifer betrays God and Hikaru betrays Ai.
So, what is known about Hikaru Kamiki? Only 2 things:
He was raped and forced to have a son when he was 11
He is a serial killer, who targets famous celebrities
In particular, it is probable Hikaru idolises Ai, just like his children do. As a child, he is raped by a woman, then he meets Ai and has a relationship with her. However, his unsolved trauma almost surely ends up compromising his story with the idol and he eventually kills her. Later on, he projects his feelings over Ai on women similar to her, whom he targets in a neverending cycle.
This psychological mechanism makes him the embodyment of the most twisted love possible:
He was loved wrong (he was raped)
He loves wrong (he kills women he is attracted to)
Given this premise, he is clearly going to be defeated and he will probably die in the end. Still, the way he goes down will be important for Aqua and Ruby, as it will decide their future, as well.
In general, Hikaru is probably meant to be a negative foil (a jungian shadow) to the twins, as he represents their darkest parts. In particular, it is gonna be interesting if he foils them not only on the main theme of love, but also on the theme of lies and truth.
Aqua explores the idea of lies. He hides things from others and manipulates them. At the same time, he also experiences how good beautiful lies can be (his happy life when he thinks his father died). Most of all, though, he embodies the idea that a lie can become truth and vice versa. For example, his most effective manipulation technique is to mix his true feelings with his lies. He tells Kana she is cute because he thinks so. He tells Akane he is interested in her as an actress because it is true. He manipulates both girls, but his feelings are genuine.
Ruby explores the idea of truth. She hates liars and doesn't want to lie even if it would help her become an idol faster. Still, she experiences how painful truth can be (her discovery of Gorou's body). This leads her to lie to both herself and others. In the end, though, an even more painful truth comes out (her parents do not love her). No matter how much Ruby tries to hide her feelings, truth will come out. And yet, despite how agonizing it is, truth also leads to happiness. She is devastated after seeing Sarina's mother again, but this lets Ruby and Aqua find each other as Sarina and Gorou. As a result, Ruby is now happier and stronger.
So, in which way may Hikaru foil his children here? There might already be hints:
Just like Aqua, Hikaru is a master at manipulating others with truth. After all, it is implied he manipulated his rapist's husband to kill her by revealing her infidelity. Similarly, he orchestrates Ai's death by telling an unstable fan about her pregnancy. Even when it comes to Yura Katayose, he openly tells the actress to watch her step. An open threath masked as advice.
Just like Ruby, it is possible Hikaru values truth and hates liars. This could easily tie in his backstory and explain why his relationship with Ai degenerates:
I shall lie today as well (Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!)
Hoping that one day, these words will become true (Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!)
And yet, still, (Hey! Hey!)
I have been unable to tell you, and you, alone (Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!)
Ai sees herself as a liar unable to love. This is obviously the real lie, as her heart is full of love. Still, it wouldn't be surprising if Ai's own issues exasperated Hikaru's fear to be used again. From what we know, it is probable Ai and Hikaru have feelings for each other, at a certain point. Then things go bad. What if Ai's inability to express her love and Hikaru's inability to understand lead to their breakout and eventual tragedy?
Obviously, this is all a theory, but one thing is sure. Ai and Hikaru's relationship is key for understanding their characters and their legacy to the twins. Still, Ai is already dead and Hikaru will die in the end. How can their story find a closure, then?
A WORK OF FICTION TO SHOW THE TRUTH
The climax of the series is building up towards the movie, which is gonna represent Hikaru and Ai's story.
Interestingly, Aqua is playing Hikaru, while Ruby is playing Ai. It is obvious a lot of emotional payoff rides on this. On the one hand it is gonna be a chance for Aqua and Ruby to sort out their feelings towards each other. On the other hand Kana and Akane will probably do the same, which will solve their love triangle with Aqua. (spoiler - KanaXAqua is probably endgame).
What is really interesting, though, is that the movie is set up to reveal who Ai really is. After all, the godly idol asks the director to film the real her and this request should be satisfied. Not only that, but Ai leaves her children 2 tapes whose contents are still to be shown. So, whatever Ai's legacy is, it will be made clear. This is true also for her bond with Hikaru:
So, does Ai forgive Hikaru or not? Her children seem to believe in the latter. However, the former is probably true.
First of all, it is probable Ai realizes Hikaru is behind her murder. The stalker arrives with a bouquet of white roses, which are associated to Hikaru. Moreover, Hikaru is the only person, who knows both about the twins and the new address. Secondly, Ai shows no rage nor fear for the fan who murders her. The man is clearly a stand-in for Hikaru in the scene. Despite his actions, Ai does not lose time hating him, but spends her final moments affirming her love for her and Hikaru's children. In short, Ai possibly knows of Hikaru's involvement, but doesn't regret their kids.
Still, will Aqua and Ruby portray this in their movie? And does Aqua's revenge ride on Ai's forgiveness or hate towards Hikaru? Will the twins understand their mother?
Whatever the result, it is probable Aqua and Ruby will eventually run into their father. In particular, Hikaru is set up as a threath to the 3 main girls:
He sends Akane white roses and she is determined to stop Aqua's revenge, which may put her in harm's way
He is the thematically opposite of Kana. He embodies twisted love and twisted truth. She embodies healthy love and genuine feelings
Finally, there is several build up towards him trying to eventually kill Ruby:
He comments that Ruby is growing up beautiful
He kills Yura, who is the original first choice for Ai's role
Ruby ends up playing Ai in the movie
If this third scenario becomes true, it could give closure to all the character arcs. Ruby may empathize with Ai and forgive her father. Aqua may be given the chance to save Ruby (symbolically both Ai and Sarina) this time. Finally, the outcome may offer catharsis to Hikaru before he dies. In short, I think Hikaru is gonna die, but that the twins are not killing him. Rather, they are gonna understand their mother's feelings and survive their parents' tragedy.
A SECOND CHANCE
Hikaru and Ai's story is a sad one, but Aqua and Ruby's is gonna have a happy outcome. After all, the whole series is about overcoming death and getting second chances.
Gorou and Sarina both go past their deaths and are given brand new lives
The new B Komachi is a second chance for all its members. It is a second chance to live for Ruby, a second chance for Kana's career, a second chance to fulfill Mem-cho's idol dream. Finally, it is the second chance of Ichigo and Miyako's wish to come true
Miyako and Ichigo's love story will also be given a second chance
The movie is the director's second chance to realize Ai's wish to film her real self
In short, this theme is everywhere and it is possible the series ends with B Komachi performing in a dome, exactly as it starts. This time, though, things will go well.
Still, doesn't something feel odd? After all, if the series is about second chances, why isn't Ai given one?
THE REAL AI (TRUE LOVE)
I think there are 2 reasons Ai isn't reborn:
1- Aqua and Ruby are Ai's second chance
The twins are Ai's legacies and will fulfill her dream for her:
Someday, surely, I will have it all in hand
I am such a greedy idol
Because I wish to love everybody properly in a life-sized way
Ai's wish is to reconcile her family with her idol career. She wants to love both her children and her fans. She wants it all. Well, Aqua and Ruby come to embody these 2 different forms of love:
Aqua is given a lot of focus when it comes to personal relationships. An important part of his arc is his feelings for Akane and Kana and he is not that much interested in the enterteinment business per se. In the end, he may also choose to fulfill his dream to become a surgeon
Ruby's dream is to become an idol, who shines even more brightly than Ai. Moreover, Ruby's wish is pure in how she doesn't want to lie nor to manipulate others to get there. She is right now also stepping into the role of actress, so by the end Ruby may catch up and surpass Ai in both her careers (idol and actress)
In other words, Aqua may live the love of a happy relationship and family, while Ruby may live the love of openly loving the world and people in general. Whatever the case, Aqua and Ruby will fulfill Ai's main wish which is for them to grow up healthy and happy.
2- Ai doesn't need reincarnation because she in fact does fulfill her dream
Ai wants to love both her family and her fans, which is what she does at the very end.
She remembers the stalker's name and his present. She proves to him she never took her fans for granted
She is able to tell her children she loves them and realizes she is not lying
Ah, I've said it now at last
This is definitely not a lie;
I love you
Ai's wish is to love and to be loved and she gets it through her twins. Aqua and Ruby feel they owe their mother something and that it is cruel they get to live a second life, while Ai doesn't. Still, they are wrong. If Gorou and Sarina were not reborn, Ai would have had a stillbirth, which would have broken her. Just by existing, they fulfill Ai's dream. They give Ai the love she so desperately craves.
By the end, Hoshino Ai becomes the embodyment of true love. True love isn't perfect. It is complicated, as people struggle and make mistakes. Still, if the wish is genuine enough, it shines incredibly bright. So does Ai, not as an idol, but as a real person (the true Ai).
this kitten is vocalizing its annoyance, and it is indeed vocalizing it AT the water, as if the water is going to take a hint and stop being wet and gross on its paw.