Another Miss Fisher Fan @bumblemamaobsesses - Tumblr Blog

Compromise

Here’s what’s interesting to me about the backlash to Phryne not being monogamous with Jack. In order for them to be together, one of them has to compromise something.

1 - Phryne could compromise and be monogamous with Jack

2 - Jack could compromise and accept not being Phryne’s only sexual partner

Almost all fanfics (including mine) are about or assume compromise #1. A fic where Jack makes the compromise? Ohhhhhh! “Controversy”!

Our fandom wants Phryne to be the one to compromise here. And I get it, and I include myself in that. Monogamy is what we/society consider “normal.” Monogamy is what we consider to be the correct expression of true love. (Is it possible that there’s also an element of sexism here? That we want the woman to be the one to compromise? Maybe? But I’m almost positive that if the roles were reversed, we would want the man to give up his philanderin’ ways and show his true love by being monogamous with the woman. So sexism could have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Still, it’s worth thinking about.)

So we have these two characters. Neither wants to change the other. They seem to be at an impasse. Then Jack - Jack! - makes the “romantic overture,” implying that Jack is the one who’s examined his wants and needs and decided that he can move forward, presumably without expecting to change Phryne. Regardless of what they might decide in terms of their relationship, Jack’s romantic overture is his offer of compromise #2.

Most of our fics are about compromise #1 because that’s what makes us warm and fuzzy (and, again, I include myself here) - but maybe we’re in denial that compromise #2 is the more realistic possibility.

I have fics, and so do others, that use a handy fix where Jack doesn’t ask for monogamy, and Phryne just wants/chooses to be with Jack only. It’s an attractive combination of freedom and no compromise and a “traditional” relationship. Monogamist that I am, this is my personal favorite romantic vision for our two dummy-heads. ;-)

Also, when you have a fandom built around a kick-ass female character, you tend to have a pretty awesome fandom, so yeah.

firesign23

I think this is hard, because I think there are good arguments that Phryne chooses “monogamy with Jack” before s3 even starts. And my reading of the characters leads me to conclude that “Open but rarely if ever exercised” is the most likely outcome with these characters–not out of some “Jack has a magical dick that makes me crave no others” (though he might, if fic is to be believe) but because (amongst other reasons) Phryne is actually rather lazy about her pursuits; many of her flings are the side effect of an adrenaline rush from OTHER adventures and Jack’s going to be around–so that is what I tend to write.

(Well, really, I’ve written everything from “Jack needs monogamy” at the end of A Glass Splinter–though in my head that’s a temporary need–to ”Phryne wants to promise monogamy but can’t bring herself to” to “open and–as far as has been posted–not used.” to “very lightly implied that Phryne is giving Jack a push to explore his own desires outside the relationship.” but that’s my default status on them. I really do need to get around to the ‘Phryne exercises that choice’ option, but… eh, I’m lazy. And hate creating OCs. And the one pestering me most is a Squirrel-universe related drabble and I’m trying not to write that for a bit. )

That said, THIS IS FIC. We are not restricted to what is the absolute likeliest outcome, and thank heaven for that. GIVE ME THE FUNCTIONAL OPEN RELATIONSHIPS. GIVE ME MONOGAMY. GIVE ME PHRACK WITH LONG-TERM LOVERS OR ONE-OFF FLINGS. GIVE ME IT ALL. Except cheating. Nobody wants cheating.

(Also @edeainfj I need more of that fic. Like, immediately. And it’s alllllll about me. :P Also, excellent post. I really should write responses like this elsewhere first, because immediately after posting I went “Actually, that comes off way different than I intended.” Stream-of-consciousness thoughts are never a good idea.)

mercurialbianca

Oh @firesign23 never change! :-) @edeainfj I am so glad you poked the nest with your fic and that the conversation is opening up here. Those of us who write transformative works like to sink our teeth into what’s possible. Even exploring things we may not in our daily lives. And yes, it amuses me to no end that there are people unwilling to entertain that option #2 is even possible. We all bring to these characters are own personal value systems and cultural world view. And yes, our ideas on relationships. The globalization of the Phandom and diverse perspectives is one of the things I have loved this past year. Sure, I love these two infuriating, burned-by-love, seen-some-shit, independent adults trying to carve out a romantic relationship together in the 20’s. Although honestly, I think they would have challenges resolving their relationship philosophies in 2016 as well. But part of the fun is exploring how it could work, whether it would fail spectacularly, and every variation in between. These are rich, wonderful characters and it is awesome to play with all the possibilities. And I love well -written stories that challenge me to think. High-five @edeainfj, for doing just that!

babsmd

—- Dear Wonderful Writers, I love ALL of it– monogamous Phrack, wandering Phryne, a Jack who needs something more stable, a J and P who need something more adventurous and like to go off in many other directions. I agree with @firesign23 who said that Phryne wouldn’t “cheat” because she would be honest anything that she ever does. Most importantly, I really love and value ALL of your hard work and creativity. It is Fiction. Period. Have at it and enjoy. I’m really enjoying it too. If my reviews have EVER been misconstrued or hurt you in any way, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. Please know that it was never my intent. I love and appreciate each and every one of you more than you will ever know. I’ve been quiet of late, just because I have. I will come out when I feel comfortable that I have time to devote to it again. Please know that I’m reading, and if I could offer multiple hugs and kudos, I would be doing it. If it were up to me, you would all be published. So would some other writers in some other fandoms who write some fabulous work as well. Love to all of you from an extremely loyal reader

bumblemamaobsesses

I think I've missed a bunch of these fics because I've been at a conference with dodgy wifi and generally busy. Anyway @edeainfj and all the wonderful writers please keep writing all kinds of relationship alternatives... And even some that aren't about sexual/romantic relationships at all. I love your creativity and writing skills and imaginations. You're all great!

enigmaticagentalice

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flashofthefuse

Gender Expectations

Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries is often referred to as a feminist show. One of the many ways it goes about demonstrating this is in the the way it regularly disregards gender in the interactions between show’s characters.

This is not to say that gender is entirely ignored in the show, but I will argue that, in many ways, the gender of the characters is irrelevant.

For example, I’m not the first to say that the characters of Phryne Fisher and Jack Robinson are not stereotypical depictions of their respective genders, but I’m going to take it one step further and say that, in their relationship to each other, Phryne and Jack’s genders are immaterial.

A lot has been said about how Phryne turns gender norms on their head, behaving in ways we are more used to seeing stereotypically male characters behave. I want to focus on the way she and Jack interact, because I think it’s one of the reasons their relationship is so incredible to watch.

While there is an undeniable sexual attraction, the show, early on, establishes that they view each other first and foremost as human beings on equal footing. They could swap genders, or be of the same gender, and there would be very little difference in how they interact. For two characters as outwardly feminine and masculine as Phryne and Jack, this is remarkable.

This disregard to gender norms is covertly evident in the very first episode. Their first encounter takes place with Phryne in a one of the most stereotypically feminine ensembles she ever wears. It is pink and floaty with demur white gloves and shawl. She is smily and flirty. Jack is in staid grays and browns, hair firmly slicked back to accent his strong, masculine jaw and he wears a deep scowl on his face.

Almost immediately, Phryne goes from slightly silly and flirty in his presence to commanding and serious as she recites a detailed and accurate analysis of the crime scene.

Jack appears disgusted to have run across this flighty female who looks at crime as an amusing hobby. She’s just another toff who thinks rules don’t apply. He quickly becomes a man intrigued and rethinking his first impression —and it has nothing to do with her beauty and flirting. It’s about her insights and observations. She not clever for a woman. She’s clever. Period.

He’s impressed, and the next time he greets her at the station, it’s with a now earned modicum of respect. He doesn’t behave like a man in thrall to a beautiful woman, and he’s not going to go out of his way to help her, but he’s cordial and forthcoming with information, and speaks to her the same way he addresses the men in the room. He doesn’t mince words or worry that a woman might be too delicate for a discussion about an illegal abortion ring. He’s just as straight forward in his actions with her as he is with everyone else.

She outright tells him she plans to meddle in the Butcher George business and he doesn’t warn her off, or express concern that it’s dangerous for a woman. He’s happy to let her do as she pleases, and can’t be bothered to care much.

Due to the time period, a Detective Inspector would probably have to be male, but replace Phryne with a man in this scene, would anything about the interaction be different?

Later, when Jack hears Phryne is in trouble, he doesn’t immediately rush off to rescue the damsel in distress. There won’t be any Dulcinea Effect on this show. She’s not a women in need of Jack’s protection, she’s just another annoying pain in his ass in a town full of them.

Phryne is first introduced as a bit of a crusader. Unconventional and amazing, but firmly on the side of the angels. She’s come home to make sure her sister’s killer won’t go free, she immediately takes up the cause of the young girl nearly killed due to an illegally obtained abortion, and after pursuing the thief that stole her earrings, she ends up trying to help him.

At first glance this might make her seem like the nurturing, caretaker type of character often depicted by a female lead, but in other instances, she behaves in ways we’ve come to expect of male characters. Her confidence and overt sexuality being just the tip of the iceberg.

By the second episode more of Phryne and Jack’s respective personalities are revealed and expectations continue to be turned around.

Jack may not be so stiff as he first appears. He’s not above using Phryne’s intelligence to his benefit. He’s manipulative in a way we often see female characters behaving. He teasingly lets her know that he can see through her deceptions, (shoes with ‘ballistic capabilities’) similar to the way a woman might gently let a man know she’s on to his tricks without challenging him, or risking insult to his masculinity. Jack’s not above flattery either, climbing up on the train to coerce her to help him. He’s not a man stooping to meet a woman at her level. They are evenly matched.

They both know what the other is up to, and while neither is fooled, they seem to enjoy the back and forth. She drops any false flattery, and through the banter, they speak to each other in a knowing and equal manner. You could make them both the same gender and it wouldn’t make a difference in these interactions. They are individuals, first and foremost, each starting to respect the other’s abilities.

(I’ll pause here to acknowledge the amazing sexual chemistry between the two leads, but ask yourself, is their being of the opposite sexes really a requirement of it?)

Another early example of Phryne defying gender norms happens when she first takes in Jane, the runaway child. One might assume she does it out of some type of nurturing impulse, but when Mr. Butler asks how long the child will be staying, she replies, “Until she tells us everything she knows.”

This is not maternal instinct driving Phryne, her interest in Jane is initially case driven. She wants answers. After that, what happens to the child is of little interest.

These first two episodes set the tone for the relationship between Jack and Phryne and it is not reliant on him being male and her female. They are two individuals that recognize each other’s abilities and are becoming friends. Regardless of gender, their budding relationship would unfold the same way, based on mutual respect, and a similar way of viewing people and the world.

It’s not just with each other that gender is immaterial. Both characters are very consistent in their treatment of all individuals, male, female, adult or child. Neither is swayed by societal status or rank. They live their lives with integrity and expect others to do the same in order to earn their respect.

Their gender identities are not flipped, they are irrelevant, with both characters allowed to show traditionally female and male characteristics equally.

Neither of them openly show much emotion, (usually a male characteristic) but they don’t hide their sensitivity either, (a supposedly female trait). When Jack speaks to Phryne of his broken marriage there is an obvious regret that he’s not afraid to show.

Phryne lets Jack see the guilt and pain she feels over her sister’s death. Both of them make plain the toll some cases take and their mutual sorrow over man’s cruelty to man. They are two no-nonsense, hardened, but compassionate people. They are human beings, kindred spirits and possibly the most equal partners I have ever seen portrayed.

Because Phryne, the lead, and Jack, the most dominate male character in the show, are mostly gender blind in their interactions with each other and others, the show is able to illustrate how ridiculous the attitudes of a patriarchal society and inequality between the sexes really is.

Phryne is most definitely the hero of these stories, but, by ignoring gender stereotypes, the show has been able to introduce a partner, and love interest for her, without diminishing her power or overshadowing her. It’s incredibly refreshing.

bumblemamaobsesses

Thorough analysis. I hadn't thought of their gender being irrelevant, but you have convinced me!

89 new-to-me fics! I'm so happy! Today at work is going to be hard to concentrate!

bumblemamaobsesses

Question about ao3

So I finally created a login on ao3, with the promise of more fics to read. I’m chaenomeles, in case anyone wonders. No writing, except in comments boxes.

Anyway. Anyone know if it possible to sort for the fics that don’t show unless you’re logged in? I read all ~500 (then) when I discovered them in January, but if I could avoid doing that again to find the new ones, that would be great.

whopooh

I am not an expert so maybe I shouldn’t be the one answering - there might very well be ways to actually sort stuff that I haven’t found - but if you don’t mind scrolling, you can just scroll down and the locked ones will have a little padlock symbol next to the title.

A great thing with being logged in is that you can comment, and when the writer answers your comment, you’re notified by e-mail. I know writers usually say that they love when they get a notification that someone has commented on them - but I love the notifications that say I have received an answer! That dialogue is much lovelier than I would have guessed beforehand.

Welcome aboard, chaenomeles!

the-phrynest-lady-detective

I had to look up the same thing yesterday @bumblemamaobsesses and if you type in “restricted:true” into the “search within” box, only the restricted works should appear. Makes it a lot easier to see which ones you have missed :)

whopooh

Ah, great, @the-phrynest-lady-detective. Reblogging to keep this.

bumblemamaobsesses

Fabulous, thank you @the-phrynest-lady-detective! And thank you @whopooh for the encouragement to join ao3 and to post comments. (Now just need to hold off on reading the bonus material until at least this evening....)

Question about ao3

So I finally created a login on ao3, with the promise of more fics to read. I'm chaenomeles, in case anyone wonders. No writing, except in comments boxes. Anyway. Anyone know if it possible to sort for the fics that don't show unless you're logged in? I read all ~500 (then) when I discovered them in January, but if I could avoid doing that again to find the new ones, that would be great.

#ao3 #mfmm fanfic

whopooh

There is right now 999 works on AO3 about “Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries”! The next will have an impressive number, and that is an impressive number all in all. Just want to say bravo to all the writers out there!

whopooh

@bumblemamaobsesses: yes, that is probably it, if you are not logged in a few fics are locked away.

bumblemamaobsesses

Thanks @whopooh! that means I get the pleasure of 90 more fanfics just by logging in! No surprises what I'm doing now... Despite it being 5am

missfishersmurdermysteriest-blog

Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries Fan Question Game

If you’re a fan of Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, take a minute to play along—reblog and answer the questions in your post! Should be fun!

1. How did you hear about the show?

2. What is the first episode you ever watched?

3. What made you watch a second episode?

4. What made you watch allll of the episodes?

5. Have you ever considered not watching any more? If so, why did you stick it out?

6. What’s your ideal way to watch an episode of MFMM?

7. Which character do you identify with most and why?

8. Describe a moment in MFMM that made you cry—either from anger, laughter, or sadness.

9. Would you rather play the murdered victim or the murder suspect (or murderer) in an episode of MFMM?

10. What does the show mean to you?

bumblemamaobsesses

Great game! Thanks @missfishersmurdermysteriestv! 1. Netflix recommended it to me 2. Series one, episode 1 (cocaine blues) 3. Netflix kept rolling and why on earth would I stop it? 4. Ditto! 5. Nope. I don't understand why anyone would stop before they'd seen them all. I am slightly toying with not rewatching them for a while, but I suspect real life commitments will demand a break then I can go back to them with a light heart! 6. Sofa, blanket, husband to rub feet and guffaw at the cheesy bits. And the most important thing is that I have time to watch another after the current episode finishes! 7. Strangely for me, I don't identify with any of the characters. I find them all authentic and sympathetic, and there are things about most of them that I admire and would like to identify with though. (Especially Mac) 8. Crying with laughter at the cockblocking farcical story lines in series 3 9. I'm so not an actor that I can't process this question. I have no idea what it would take to be either. In general, being interesting and well-rounded is good though. 10. It's the junk food without calories. It's the strong women. It's the possibilities. Its the costumes. It's the fast cars and strong liquor. It's the humanity so well shown but wrapped in beautiful packages.

american-in-london

Ready, set...rec!

Hey, MFMM fandom, I’d love some Phrack fanfiction recommendations! Admittedly, I’m particular - I’m a bit of an English nerd, and I dabble in writing myself - but as long as the smut is tasteful, I’m certain I’ll enjoy almost anything. Please and thank you!

mercurialbianca

Oh, so many good options to choose from @american-in-london we are a blessed fandom with some truly excellent writers. Some of my favorite authors include CollingwoodGirl, @afterdinnerminx, @firesign23, @omgimsarahtoo, @gaslightgallows, Sassasam, @heavyheadedgal, @aljwritesphryne, @flashofthefuse, @meldanya44 and plenty of others I enjoy. I have a few stories out there as well. All of us are on AO3 Here is a link to the stories many of us did at Christmas. It gives you a great buffet of authors to check out. http://archiveofourown.org/collections/Phryneficathon And if you like your stories super dense and poetic, you have to read “The God Abandons Antony” by @counterfog

firesign23

@american-in-london You’ve lucked out; the fic quality in this fandom is AMAZING. I definitely recommend starting with the Ficathon stuff, because there’s a wide variety of authors and you can get a sense of styles that work for you or don’t.

I can also recommend a few fics that are only on fanfiction.net: Repentence by Gingham (and the sequel), Elliot Silver’s work (I have mixed feelings on her latest, but the writing is gorgeous) and Ulumbarra by Idolatrous (this took a few chapters to “click” for me, but is so very worth sticking with).

(And Sassasam is @phrynesboudoir on tumblr!)

meldanya44

@american-in-london Oooh, I second all of @thehonorablemrsmccarthy and @firesign23 ‘s recommendations above (and also go check out their works as soon as possible; you will not be disappointed). And there is a lot of very high quality MFMM fic out there; it’s almost overwhelming.

Two stories that got this English nerd hooked on MFMM fic are by Fahye on A03:

“A Series of Optical Illusions” is a gorgeous case fic/post S3 reunion story set in London at a Venetian masquerade ball (and includes a young Ellis Peters as a supporting character)

“Fighting Vainly the Old Ennui” an AU from Jack’s perspective in which he’s investigating a jewel thief and becomes drinking buddies with Mac.

kanste

@american-in-london I support all the above mentioned wholehearted! This little fandom has so many really talented writers.

#reblogging to make sure I've read all of these

whopooh

Miss Fisher, the 1920s, and sex

Miss Phryne Fisher is a charachter that can be projected onto two different time periods: She is a modern woman of 1928/29, who is part of a break with tradition that gives room for women to have a more liberated and free role. She is also a modern woman for people watching the show in the 2010s – a time period that still feels that a liberated, no-nonsense, free-spirited, sensual and sexually liberated woman is actually out of the ordinary (I remember when I started to watch the show and how happy I was that she was never ever punished for this). I think Miss Fisher has much to teach us about our own time’s view of women, but now I wanted to say something about her own time period (even if this is from a North European perspective, I hope it is still illuminating).

In the books, Phryne is sometimes called both flapper and vamp, which were names used for different types or versions of “the modern woman" at the time. At the same time as these modern female roles were explored and culturally important, especially in urban and alternative circles, there was also another side of this, where versions of the norm-breaking woman instead were seen as threats. Often, female sexuality was quickly deemed as pathological and threatening. Categories and words were used to stigmatize women, and the categorisation shows so much about which norms the people categorizing desperately wanted to uphold.

The book that I am reading at the moment is discussing the pathologization of women and of female sexuality in the first decades of the 20th c.. Here is a (selected, and in my own translation so apologies if not perfect) list from 1925, published by the National Board of Health and Welfare (in Swedish Socialstyrelsen) of types of women that were seen as ”dangerous to society”:

Nymphomaniacs a) Generally nymphomaniac b) masturbators

Demimondes a) Mistresses b) dancing girls c) boulevard girls

Homosexuals a) Pure homosexual love affairs b) souteneuses c) working homosexuals, voyeuses d) homosexual prostitutes

Vampires [devourer of men]

Streetgirls a) Simple mistresses b) dancing girls c) ordinary streetgirls

Horned larks [berglärkor – for some reason this was the name of what was called the ”dregs” of the dangerous women, the lowest of the lowest, I am not sure exactly what that entails]

The author Karin Johannisson comments that this is a series of male fantasies about women (the insatiable woman, the sapphic woman, the vamp) that was turned into medical or socially pathological categories. The nymph is turned into an ill, or perhaps criminal, person, and female desire is positioned as something that should be subdued by science or law. These categories also formed a threatening image to women from the upper classes who were supposed to embrace asexuality as the official norm, as female sexuality was supposed to not be roused until the marriage bed.

Even if Miss Fisher is very much not allowing herself to be restricted, but is living her life exactly as she wishes to and is obviously influenced by women in alternative circles she met in Paris (though they only figure in the books), this can still be seen as a backdrop and a contrast to her choices – and also interestingly, something the people surrounding her in the tv show are not trying to pin on her (or on Mac). I think it is interesting that Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries is not focusing on antagonists to Phryne’s lifestyle (they exist, but they never take over the plots). The point of the show is something else: to build a positive world of a chosen life, to create a world where this can be something normal, where tolerance for differences can be normal, and where a woman can be caring, clever, competent and helpful; flirting, sexual and beautiful, and nothing in this is contradicting the others.

(Images from here.)

boe-hannah

This video is also viewable on: https://vimeo.com/167252802

For some reason Pink and Miss Phryne Fisher go together well. :-) Miss Fisher likes to cause trouble and it certainly makes Detective Inspector Jack Robinson’s life… interesting.

Video made for entertainment and non-profit purposes only and for the love of Miss Fisher and Jack.

crazycatschickenlady-deactivate

Wow!

flashofthefuse

perfect!

bumblemamaobsesses

That helped! Gotta channel my inner Phryne. Get shit done. Get it done in style. Don't stop caring for the people who matter.

essiedavisdaily

The ABC has yet to announce if a fourth season of the popular period crime drama will be made.

However, Davis is confident it will return to the small screen but only after a feature film of glamorous private detective Phryne Fisher is produced.

foxspirit1928

Upgraded from cautiously optimistic to moderately optimistic, moving toward the right direction.

(Re-blogged 14-May-2016)

izzyandlouie-deactivated2024050

Stage and screen in the UK ?? !!

babsmd

If it’s in the UK, a meet up is in order. @izzyandlouie and @aljwritesphryne, I’m depending on you to organize something. I’m there!!!

bumblemamaobsesses

If there's a mfmm play in London, I'd be there....

#should visit family and friends #but a mfmm play is more appealing

foxspirit1928

My Phryneist Shoes Index

Thank you all for participating in @bumblemamaobsesses’s challenge of “My Phryneist Shoes”. Not surprisingly, many of you have stylish shoes that even Phryne would envy. Make sure you don’t ever reveal your home addresses, or your shoe closet may be in serious danger of being raided.

Some of you pointed out that our favorite lady detective was not all glamorous, all the time; she was also worldly, adventurous, and practical. I want to thank you for the reminder.

By the way, @lunalove-blr left me a note on my Fashion File post earlier (“My favourites aren’t there. It’s the red, white and blue strappy ones from the long date”), so I am including them here. Thank you for the input.

Without further ado, here is the list of the Phandom’s fabulous shoes, links and excerpts from the original posts are included.

********************

@flashofthefuse: “I had my eye on the boots all winter and finally bought when they were 60% off!”

@balticprincess: “They look pretty good with fishnet tights.”

@lunalove-blr: “My Phryniest pair of shoes (that I have with me at uni - also the only pair of heels).”

@julesfriend2: “I know that during her round the world travels, Phryne would have made a pit stop in the American Southwest to buy some Turquoise Trinkets and have some Green Chili laced wine. Once she let her inner cowgirl out to play, she would have worn these boots and roped a cowboy (or two)”

@ladygrayluvs: “Then I realized that my least Phryniest choice - these OLD boots - are utterly Phryne in her capacity as Madame President of The Adventuress Club.”

@greyeyes-greenlight: “I love both of these pairs a lot. They belong to a rare breed: comfortable heels.”

@the-phrynest-lady-detective: 1) “They are both ballroom shoes, so not for daywear.” (scroll down to the bottom) 2) “And the most comfortable pair of boots I have ever owned (they are so warm, I bought them to survive wintery Montreal, and they’ve served me well!)”

@lizzwithay: “Trying to convince my brother in law to do a 1920s themed night for his studios ballroom party on Friday. Most of my 20s stuff is too dressy for just daily wear so need an excuse.”

@dpshimmyshimmy: “The bottom pic is my Phryniest shoes. The first picture is my somewhat unexpected collection of Mac-iest shoes!”

@izzyandlouie: “my Phryne look-alike shoes with the diagonal strap.”

@crazycatschickenlady: “I’ve had the gold pair since high school.”

@bumblemamaobsesses: 1) “The brown ones I bought in Amsterdam, the red ones were from a little boutique in Covent Garden, and I wore the silver ones for my 30th birthday party, which was in an old brewery on Brick Lane.” 2) Boots, boots, and more boots!

@mari-go: “All my “Phrackin’” shoes…purchased before I fell in to the Phrack-pit!”

@rithebard: “I don’t have anything that is period that would be working shoes but this comes close for party.”

foxspirit1928: “I found these shoes before I discovered Miss Fisher. They are very comfortable to begin with, and now I have more reasons to love them.” (p.s. ladygrayluvs said that they were “rather Cleopatra-esque”. All I need now is my Roman soldier. Jack, where are you?)

(Posted 13-May-2016)

@flashofthefuse @balticprincess @lunalove-blr @julesfriend2 @ladygrayluvs @greyeyes-greenlight @the-phrynest-lady-detective @lizzwithay @dpshimmyshimmy @izzyandlouie @crazycatschickenlady @bumblemamaobsesses @mari-go @rithebard

bumblemamaobsesses

Thanks for the fabulous roundup @foxspirit1928 and thanks everyone for playing along. You all have some wonderful shoes & boots that the Honourable Miss Phryne Fisher herself would be proud to wear!

foxspirit1928

Miss Fisher Wisdom and Life Lessons (2)

Jack to Miss Fisher in S2E1 Murder Most Scandalous:

“You can’t assume education and intelligence go hand in hand.”

It was referring to the doorman at the Imperial Club, Maurie Burke, who was shot by George Sanderson before Jack and Miss Fisher had a chance to find out more about the mysterious box that he and Lavinia used to blackmail the high ranking police officers. When Miss Fisher said “Impressive that a man with as little education as Burke could concoct such an elaborate plan,” Jack responded with this statement.

I agree with Jack’s insight. There are many successful and intelligent people who dropped out of college or never even finished high school (e.g. American astronaut John Glenn, Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, William Shakespeare, and Albert Einstein; see “10 Poorly Educated But Incredibly Successful People”). On the other hand, I have worked with a number of individuals who hold a Master or PhD degree, but their lack of common sense hinders their ability to comprehend or complete even the simplest tasks.

We often say that “Don’t judge a book by its cover”. Similarly, if we judge a person solely by the level of education he/she receives, we run the risk of making the wrong assumptions.

That being said, as a former teacher and someone with a degree in Education, I am still an advocate of some form of systematic learning for children and young adults. Attending schools is certainly not the only way to develop our social skills while cultivating intellectual abilities and learning self-discipline, but it has been proven to be quite effective. Not every school dropout turned out to be Steve Jobs or Bill Gates; the majority of us mere mortals do rely on a diploma in order to find employment and support ourselves.

(Posted 10-May-2016)

foxspirit1928

Interesting point @bumblemamaobsesses. It was never made clear on the show how much schooling that Phryne received. Mrs. Charlesworth had to fight Daddy Fisher to let little Phryne stay in school, but we don’t know what level of education that was. I always assume that after they inherited the title and the fortune, she would attend boarding school or even college in England. It is true that Jack called her “self-styled and untrained”, but I only associated that comment with her private detective credentials, not formal schooling.

Calling all Book!Phryne expert! What level of education did Miss Greenwood give Phryne in her books?

(Re-blogged 10-May-2016)

milanima

This is interesting and a theme that comes up again later in the same season with The Blood of Juana the Mad. That whole episode is about intelligence and what makes a person intelligent. It is not always the ones you think who are the most intelligent and being intelligent does not automatically make you understand everything in life nor does it make you kind and/or humanistic. (As an academic myself I have seen to much of this.)

whopooh

Yes! This is one of the many wonderful humanistic themes in the show - not caring about facades, titles, conventional moral or how things ‘should’ be seen, instead going to the core of people and how they actually are. And consistently valuing things like care and consideration rather than competetiveness and surface success. (I feel I don’t find the right words in English here, but approximately making sense I hope.) I think the show all the time values and uppgrades as important the female worlds in society, and at the same time shows that intelligence (true intelligence) needs not only brain but also heart.

revskell-deactivated20220922

By the books in the parlor - if they had been read- Phyrne is well rounded even if not with formal education. Yet her insistence of Jane going to school and caring about the library as well as explaining to Dot Jane’s right of passage to go to school abroad lends my thinking to Phryne to have higher formal education

jumblemama

I wrote a huge reply to this, swiped to fact check something, and then my tumblr app ate it. So I am doing something that I swore I’d not do: login to tumblr from my computer. Anyway….

@whopooh I agree with everything you said, and you’re spot on with your words.

@foxspirit1928 I’ve read all of the books and my version of the history of Phryne is somewhere between books, tv, things that my grandad told me and wider social history. It goes a bit like this:

In Melbourne, as a child, Phryne was quick thinking, and rebellious. Schools then were not caring sharing nurturing places, especially not the kinds of schools that would have been available for poor children. It would have been rote learning, corporal punishment, large classes and few resources. So I don’t think school would have been always a high priority for her - not where there were adventures to be had in the real world. Plus if you add in the number of times she was surely stopped from going to school by her father - locked in the cupboard as a punishment, or sent out to earn/steal money, or just if his drunkenness disrupted the family enough that Phryne couldn’t leave her mother/face school; or when she stayed to look after & play with Janey - I just don’t see her getting a consistent education. I suspect Miss Charlesworth had some influence, but even she wouldn’t have been able to overcome all of the socioeconomic barriers.

After inheriting the money, and moving to England, Phryne would have been of an age when most girls/young women were done with education. Boarding schools were for wealthy boys; wealthy girls had governesses and specialist tutors if they were lucky. But I don’t see Phryne’s parents doing that: they wanted to marry her off so it would have been elocution & etiquette and trying to de-Oz her. There would have been a library - probably- in the house, and I suspect Phryne would have lost herself in books (which may well be why she has so many in her Wardlow parlour, what do you think, @revskell ?) but I don’t see her getting any formal education. A very few women then were demanding university places, although most of them were only allowed to observe classes (not participate) and they also weren’t allowed to graduate in many cases. The rules she would have had to adhere to to get anything like what we consider an education now I think would have been too much for her.

We also know that she ran off to France to drive an ambulance during WW1. Book/tv versions differ as to her age then, but either way, her training would likely have been basic first aid/nursing and very much on the job. She would have learned a lot about compassion and care and driving fast but probably not much ‘book learning’.

And then to Paris, where she for sure learned a lot about life but I doubt very much formal education.

I think part of the reason she wants Jane to get a proper education is because she didn’t. Just like she wants Jane to be safe and not hungry and to have pretty dresses is that she knows what it is like not to have them, and she wants better for her child than she had.

So for me, when Jack quotes Shakespeare at her, part of the reason she loves it is because its something he has that she doesn’t. (My quick Jack history is that he had a much more stable family who supported his education and talked to him about learning and literature and that he saw formal education as a route to fulfillment). And when Jack, with all of his book-smarts, rule-following, theorizing and careful policeman’s training talks about separating intelligence from education, I think she knows it is a compliment to her.

bumblemamaobsesses

oh pants, another mis-blog

whopooh

Very interesting, @bumblemamaobsesses! I love the “somewhere between books, tv, things that my grandad told me and wider social history”, that sounds like a good place. :-)

I like the “part of the reason she loves it is because its something he has that she doesn’t” - I hadn’t thought of it that way. She is very astute in recognizing Shakespeare though, and if I remember correctly she has done some acting, so I think she has some of it, but perhaps from a more practical angle (like learning knots from a portuguese sailor - “learning by doing”). You have made me see the line from Jack as a much stronger compliment to her than I had tought of before. I think the appropriate term here is “Headcanon accepted”. :-)

revskell-deactivated20220922

@bumblemama yes Phyrne would have been lost in books. The library wAs an escape , a learning place and solace

bumblemamaobsesses

@revskell and @whopooh maybe Phryne read Shakespeare in the library in England; and I suspect the acting she did was in Paris… She wouldn’t have been allowed to act on stage in England. @whopooh be careful with your words ;-) “Headcanon accepted” had the most remarkable effect on me. I flailed and squawked and wibbled. What an honour! (Seriously, that is a very very lovely thing to read, thank you very much).

whopooh

Oh, I love that! Flailing and squawking and wibbling! :-) <3 <3 <3 I don’t think I need to be more careful with words than I am @bumblemamaobsesses ;-) Yes, I can completely accept Phryne reading massive amounts where she could find books, as escape and solace and out of interest, on her own without reins or musts or shoulds and oughts! There are many roads to becoming well-read, and curiosity and open interest is really very very Phryne. @ladygrayluvs your headcanon sounds intriguing…

kanste

What a wonderful discussion. @bumblemamaobsesses I confess I never gave that much thought about Phryne’s education and the sentence “You can’t assume education and intelligence go hand in hand.”

I think you’re right. Phryne doesn’t have a formal education beyond Miss Charlesworth. I think der father was more interested into marrying her off well (to be fair, wasn’t that the main goal / purpose for most woman at the time?) and educating the girls was not seen as important at all. I can see her getting lost in books and educating herself.

And when I think about all that, I’m 100 % with @whopooh . I can now see what a strong compliment this really was. I really would like to now more about Jack’s background. I always asumed that he came from a middle class family. But would they really have the money for a formal education? Or is he, in regard of his love for Shakespeare self-taught?

bumblemamaobsesses

@kanste pleased you enjoyed it all! Education & learning are such culturally dependent qualities, while a bright spark of intelligence burns bright wherever it lands... In answer to your question about Jack's educational history, I know various fanfics have described his childhood in different ways (working class, middle class, even a few upper class-ish). The common themes, at least the ones that stuck in my brain include parents who were decent people, and within the context of whatever resources they had, provided well for Jack and a sibling or two. They always had shoes & coats and a belly full of breakfast. Jack would have come to school trusting the establishment to treat him fairly because he didn't know it could be otherwise. He would have come to school with a kiss from his mum and an encouragement to "go and learn lots then come & tell me about it". They may or may not have had many books at home, but he would have saved up his odd-job money and bought some. And his parents would never have pawned them for food or booze. Because he was a boy he would have been seen as worth educating by society, so when he showed aptitude, he would have been encouraged by teachers. And when he joined the police force he would have worked hard and studied for his promotion exams. Plus with Rosie, I see them as reading together often. Sharing their castles in the sky and being inspired by fictional heroes. And as the son in law of the deputy commissioner he would have met lots of people with a lot of formal education. I think he would have chosen to read up on subject to be well prepared. Education as his armour.