Petty Musings Of Meat @ca-suffit - Tumblr Blog

You know, sometimes characters are saying racists things not as a reflection of the writers, but because the character is written that way

ca-suffit

So why wasn't this happening when black writers were writing the script hmm??

chicalepidopterareblogs

A part of this fandom is convinced that the only way to be respectful towards Louis and Claudia is by higlighting how unique their stories are. Any kind of parallel is treated as reduccionist and labelled as racist. The truth is Louis can have more things in common with a mentally ill violinist in 1700s Auvergne than with his Black peers in 19010s NOLA and Claudia's struggles are not so different from the ones that his white father had to go through.

The refusal to recognise someone's pain in others is deeply rooted in individualism and a symptom and a triumph of Capitalism in its most diabolic form.

ca-suffit

this is not true. It's not the comparisons that are the problem, it's specific contexts of how it's done as well as how black characters as a whole are being treated on this show (and the whole immortal universe tbh).

This is srsly not hard to understand and ppl have been explaining racism and antiblackness to u for years. How are we still here jfc.

plantsjustwannahavefun

TVL S03E3: Claudia and Lestat's SA Scenes

It's so weird seeing a number of people complaining that showing Lestat's SA scene alongside Claudia's diary excerpt overshadowed Claudia's SA, but no one thinks it was the other way around.

For the record, I don't think either one overshadowed another. By interweaving Lestat's rape with Claudia's, the show put some distance between what we saw happening to Lestat on the screen while still finding a way to feature Claudia in the narrative. You can say Louis reading out those passages to Bruce was exploitative (and I believe it was, intentionally so; just like Louis stalking Regina was intentionally creepy and sad), but at least Claudia still got to tell her own real story, in her own words, with no one twisting or sugarcoating them. That's the opposite of objectification, in my eyes.

But some people's reaction is really revealing how male SA victims still aren't taken seriously. How was this scene "overshadowing" Claudia when Claudia's assault was already explored in both S1 and later in S2, while this is the first and likely the only time we'll see Lestat's? If anything, I suspect if the roles were reversed and it was Lestat's rape that was told through the diary while Claudia's was shown on screen, those same people would probably be screaming how Claudia's rape was gratuitous and and played for titillating backdrop while Lestat's rape was portrayed in a more "dignified" way purely through his words while sparing us the visuals.

And I can only imagine what their reaction would be if Armand was female and Louis mocked her getting groomed into a sex slave...

So, no, I don't think the show frivolises rape at all, but some fans definitely seem to when it comes to male victims.

ca-suffit

This whole post is a mess.

Idk where ur getting this stuff abt nobody cares about male victims wrt Lestat but I can assure u he is going to be fine in this and ppl *do* take it seriously, before show and after. Lestat's victimhood is all this fandom *ever* centers tbh.

Claudia's words are taken from her private diary and the whole thing has been discussed without her around. Lestat is choosing to make a documentary and music videos and is showing what he wants to be shown. How are u saying claudia got to speak about hers but he isn't able to speak about his. What????

This also p obviously isn't going to be the last time his rape is brought up and it was mentioned in S1 too, so idk how u think this is such a single event.

U also can't just approach the topic as a blanket thing w/out mentioning Claudia is a black woman in a black girl's body and lestat is a white man. The main reason ppl are upset at how this was done is based on that. Taking this to mean nobody cares about male victims is rly bizarre. How did u even arrive at this conclusion?? Ppl are upset at claudia being fucked over so that means nobody cares about men?? Jesus...

ca-suffit

Honestly what is the point of paralleling lestat and claudia while also insinuating the train threat never happened. Why is this season so comfortable blaming black characters for choices the writers made. Lestat knowing about book iwtv and writing songs about Magnus and inviting a doc by Daniel is worlds away from louis reading dead Claudia's rape diary pages to her white rapist. And why is he prbly gonna weird out waitress regina and plz for the love of God don't make her the waitress character from body thief or holy fuck.

Is this rly the best story they could come up with for Louis and claudia? What are we doing here. It feels so one dimensional plus ppl (and the show!!!) are piling on louis like he wanted the book published. He didn't!! And didn't stuff get changed in it before being published too, stuff the Talamasca edited, again w/o Louis' consent?

The source material is racist and misogynistic too but there are certainly choices being made rn that I feel could have been so easily avoided. This season feels so lazy.

covenforclaudia

hey!! i was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on your point about paralleling claudia and lestat's assaults and the reality of the train scene? i wanted to respond to your point properly but i don't think i understand this bit and i would love to discuss it more :)

seeing as they've only just properly introduced where this claudia (regina)/louis plotline is going, i think most opinion can be reserved before labelling the writing as lazy. rolin's team seemed extra passionate about giving louis' character something MEANINGFUL to both him and the wider story through this original plotline for louis, so i am putting full faith in them for how well they have fleshed out louis up until now, i have no evidence so far to prove that they'd do a bad job.

as to your point about "blaming black characters", THIS is the result of racially conscious casting. the writers write for louis and claudia as their respective characters first, NOT with special embellishments of positive qualities just because they are black characters. i feel like this what jacob mentioned in his GQ interview when he talked about the "myth of representation." i think because the cast is so racially mixed, seeing things only purely racial divides is something common in the fandom, but i think we need to remind ourselves to see them as characters first, who just like all the other characters in the show regardless of their race are written with motives for the plot and themes by the writing team. this obviously does not defend all of the horrific racial abuse the non-white characters in this show often receive, but i think blaming the responses of fans on the writers is not entirely fair.

and just an additional point: louis DID want the book published. rashidmand explains the consequences of this choice to daniel in 1x05, and louis is openly prepared to deal with said consequences. the fact he changes his mind at the end of season 2 having both fully remembered parts of his life he forgot AND come to terms with things about himself he tried to reject does not negate the fact that the intention of the interview was to have it published. as daniel says in 1x07 "it's the same shit you pulled in san fransisco," which as we confirm in 2x05, was using the initial interview as a means to connect to lestat.

ca-suffit

hi!

i was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on your point about paralleling claudia and lestat's assaults and the reality of the train scene?

I can. First thing is I don't see a reason the Bruce thing needed to happen anyway. It feels like the writers wanted to rly emphasize that Lestat's turning was a rape so they used Claudia's description of her own to pin that point down and prbly also tell us "this makes them similar." It's treating the audience like idiots as well as stomping over Claudia's experience to use it as emphasis to what a white man is going through. Even using the excuse that Claudia has never been her own person between louis and lestat it's still just bad writing. We already know this and we've already seen this same scene with the coven. This is what I was calling lazy writing btw cuz it feels like they don't know what else louis could possibly be doing but this. And ig claudia is also reduced to being a rape victim when tbh prior seasons had been doing it all better on this topic. This rly ruined that for me now bcuz it was serious overkill.

And the train scene - I saw smthng from sam that says they're basically gonna undo the rape threat on the train and I think that's stupid. It doesn't need to happen. This season so far has been full on calling louis a liar (between character *and* bts actor stuff) and now touching on claudia things too when she's not even here to dispute it. Between this and using her rape to elevate Lestat's scene it feels like they're sidelining all these black characters solely to uplift the white one. When what we see the most onscreen is violence to black bodies it feels egregious to tell the audience "how dare u think lestat might threaten rape to claudia" after we just saw the man drop his black partner from the sky. At least theyre not retconning *that* but they rly didn't have to retcon *anything.* It's true to reality that abused ppl abuse other ppl and I feel like it's even more true for a white French man with his black family. It can be used as a learning point it doesn't need to be erased.

The regina storyline is fine so far. I think they could have just done that without the Bruce bit and it wouldn't have felt so nasty.

Rolin and these immortal universe shows are all showing issues with misogyny / misogynoir and antiblackness tbh so I've been rapidly losing faith in any of this as this season has gone on. It *did* start out strong before but now....

And idk, I feel like saying louis can't remove consent for publication is pretty weird?? He started the interview under a different life and motivations. Even if all that was revealed didn't happen he should be able to trash it any time he wants. There wasn't a contract that I remember so he wasn't obligated to do anything.

Anyways. We can agree to disagree on things if it comes to that but there's more details of how I was thinking.

The source material is racist and misogynistic too but there are certainly choices being made rn that I feel could have been so easily avoided. This season feels so lazy.

#amc tvl #the vampire lestat #tvl spoilers

I will elaborate later but what the show is doing wrt louis and claudia doesn't sit right w me. This season is a mess and a *huge* downgrade in quality all around from S1 and S2. If this had been what those black led seasons looked like, ppl would have been meaner than they already were. This is only being defended rn bcuz it's centering the white character and ppl don't want to admit this season is disappointing. We shouldn't have to wait so long for a crumb of anything good or have ppl saying media literacy is dead and posting charts to describe how plots move instead of just admitting it's fucking bad and maybe ur character has been failed by the writers this season.

#amc tvl #the vampire lestat

acediscowlng

louis showing lestat's annotated copy of the book to daniel almost immediately after lestat gives it to him as if giving daniel private information about lestat didn't start this whole damn thing in the first place this man i swear to fucking christ

ca-suffit

Louis didn't consent to the book being published either, ppl conveniently keep forgetting that. And the details of the scene with Daniel were made up by lestat.

Ppl weren't here talking about consent when everyone was white and most ppl have no concern abt it when it comes to black characters so ijs

Not to be insane, but the way "Black Licorice" is about a person... Having a black husband didn't fix Lestat's racist biases and I'm going insane that others don't seem to understand this. I don't care that that was a human, we're really back to comparing black ppl's skin to foods, ig...

I don't even know if the writers know it's racist, tbh

ya, idk what the show is doing w that song. It wasn't even written for the show. Rolin heard it and used it to replace the show written song. I was surprised that tour bus convo about it happened tbh but it raised more questions than it answered.

Lestat is moving weird around black ppl in this season so far too and the show isn't revealing if it's self aware of that so its like???

#asks #amc tvl #the vampire lestat #black licorice

i said in my reblog u just did of a post about that plantation kkkosplayer but whenever this person - /krea2re/tagged/receiptz - gets hate it made me miss you. i try to defend it but nothing works. its even worse on twitter. i wondered if u saw it on ur hiatus or something?

i didn't know abt any of this. I've been catching up. Not surprised but jfc this fandom is rly heinous.

It's been rly sad to check who is still here now and see so many black accounts deleted or abandoned. This is why tho. And the show rewarding white fandom on top of it. It's sick.

#fandom racism #antiblackness

nashvillethotchicken

I forgot just how white tumblr is, and especially how white the tvc/iwtv Fandom is on here

nashvillethotchicken

This is not derailing at all bc i saw one of her posts and then immediately after I saw a lil white girl ask why no show iwtv fans wanted to read the book and that the show wasnt what anne rice wanted and she had to have it explained to her that nobody wanted to watch a show where a white slaveowner called his black slaves stupid and primitive and scary while he let his white partner eat and beat them with impunity

nashvillethotchicken

This is about amarawombat and inkyblotposts by the way. The two of them are still on here acting like everything is sweet and they weren't walking around and taking photos with a white slave owner funko pop at a slave plantation like that's just a thing to do

creaturefeaturecommando

Amarawombat is active on here under the user @/jaegasms btw.

#WTF happened since I've been gone?????#fandom racism #jaegasms

I'm catching up on what has happened since I've been gone but plz feel free to update me in asks 2 thnx

Are you going to come back for season 3?

bonjour lol

#interview with the vampire #the vampire lestat #amc iwtv #amc tvl #iwtv 2022 #iwtv s3

@cuntstat the absolute cringe arrogance you showed by coming here and shutting down a healthy and personal conversation that does not involve you like the massive fucking idiot you are, is disgusting. You are an ignorant fool who deserves to get piled on with all the hate in the fandom for the drivel that came out of your ass. Fucking humiliated for how STUPID you are. This blog isn't about THE SHOW VS THE BOOKS YOU IDIOT IT'S ABOUT THE RAGING RACISM THAT IS RAMPANT IN THE FANDOM. Case in point you. I feel terrible for that anon to be attacked by such a moron as you, when they came here to discuss a relevant issue in a safe space. IT'S IDIOTS LIKE YOU WHO MAKE ME HATE CHARACTERS SUCH AS LESTAT, ONLY BECAUSE OF HOW STUPID YOU ARE. You think adding a "cunt" to your braindead name makes you sound all smart and edgy? I'm humiliated for your parents for raising you.

(context)

#asks #interview with the vampire #amc interview with the vampire #interview with the vampire amc #iwtv amc #amc iwtv #iwtv 2022 #fandom racism

Thank you for this blog, people like you are so rare in this fandom. I checked Autumn's channel, Sam's interview has 100k views and Jacob's interview has less than half the views, 49k, despite him being the lead for 2 seasons, not to mention that most of the comments under his video are still about "Slam Reid", or Sam/Lestat in any shape or form. I'm not surprised that Amc and the showrunners are trying to appease this part of the fandom so badly, they know Anne Rice and the VC have a predominantly white audience and they want to milk the cow. I agree with you when you say "this show is gonna nosedive bcuz they're chasing these nerd asses", they are confident that that's where the numbers are. I'm here for Jacob's astonishing portrayal of Louis and I would certainly stop watching if his role was significantly diminished, but except some die hard Loustaters, the majority of these white women are only interested in watching Lestat.

Ty for the comment ❤️ I'm glad ppl can have a space to vent here, although I obviously wish it wasn't necessary.

#asks #interview with the vampire #amc interview with the vampire #interview with the vampire amc #iwtv amc #amc iwtv #iwtv 2022 #jacob anderson #autumn brown #fandom racism

As a black viewer (in response to the other anon) , I have to say that the lack of understanding in (seemingly sparse) conversations surrounding the importance of race and blackness/anti blackness is extremely frustrating in the fandom. Blogs on here who are so tied to/fans of the book never seem to want to have these conversations. They are so hung up on the book the book the book and the facts of the book and ignore that this show isn’t directly pulling from the book. It’s inspired by, with the same storylines just told differently, with the same characters played by an array of actors. People on twitter (most of them because i have seen a few people bring of this up and get blacklisted by fandom) never want to talk about this. A lot of journalists as well. I wish the podcasts were still a thing because the host, a black woman, discussed race in relation to the story and how it impacts Louis/Claudia. Instead we got - in addition to articles/etc- interviews with mostly or all white fans on YouTube with the cast. No shade to them because they seem fine but to can a podcast that discussed important topics like antiblackness/racism, being black in that time period to instead give space for these fans to ask the cast questions that never cut into the meat of it all or dive into those topics whatsoever is… a choice. An insulting and disappointing choice. About the depiction of that in the show especially season two, it did make me uncomfortable. It was hard to stomach. Without the intent to normalize the storytelling choices at all, I can’t say I’m surprised they decided to depict that the way they did. The showrunner is white and who knows how many of the writers are as well or simply not black so there’s a very serious lack of understanding the impact this has on a black audience. Claudia was always going to die in the show no matter what because the writer for the book series this was based on had a daughter who was the inspiration for creating claudia who died young. Having said that, it could have been handled differently in the show knowing that they’re in Europe in the 1900s with two black characters. Rollin (the showrunner) casted a black actor to play one of his main characters so he was already aware that Louis would be treated differently than say if he was a white Louis. Thus, he was already aware of how Louis would be treated if/when Louis went to Europe because he and Claudia are black. He plans out storylines and I wish that could have been handled with more care and less triggering. I am aware that if Louis and Claudia freely traveled around Europe during war times and racism with no one - not a single vampire or human trying to attack or bother them- that there would be fans saying well you are just brushing over the reality of how Louis and Claudia would be treated. And yeah they would have. So all of this to say I understand where that anon is coming from.

Can I say that it bothers me to no end that - although I can grasp why- the consequences of some people’s actions specifically Armand - are not treated with the weight as it should. I do not know how this will be dealt with next season, but it has been said (about this story/characters) that since vampires live to eternity/for centuries, they learn to forgive heinous and the most traumatizing of situations for the sake of moving forward and healing. You can choose to forgive if you want if it serves you in healing because that is a person (or vampire’s) right but Armand killed and orchestrated the death of two peoples daughter. I don’t want to see two or even three seasons from now Armand becoming ‘buddies’ with Louis or Lestat. The writer of these characters said that if Louis and Lestat did have an actual wedding, Armand would be there and have a role in it ? Why would the man who killed their daughter have a role in their wedding? I don’t want to see something like that in the show. Fans excuse it because these are vampires with a non human experience but we are humans watching and will find it hard to forget something like that. If this was real life, a person or duo would not think twice about cutting someone off who killed their daughter. I will say to Louis staying with Armand after Claudia’s death, he doesn’t know that Armand planned and did that. He thinks it was all or mostly Lestat’s fault, which it wasn’t. Lestat we will learn was weak from Armand holding him captive so he couldn’t save Claudia- going back to the reality that Claudia was never going to be saved because the writer/creator of the book series had her die because she was inspired by her daughter’s death. Despite knowing that, it was troubling seeing these events unfold as they did nonetheless. All of this to say, I am aware that life for Louis and Claudia was never going to be rainbows and sunshine everyday with no racism or hardships. If the show attempted to portray their lives that way, it would be problematic. So I understand that Louis and Claudia will be faced with racism and hard times, but it’s how the portrayal unfolds. As for Lestat’s treatment of them, I’m glad there’s some semblance of remorse and apology that we never get from Armand ever. This is NOT me excusing Lestat’s actions whatsoever just to say that is the bare minimum lol especially for a white character because we know if he was lacking remorse and didn’t care, it wouldn’t go over well. At least we might see his consequences from his actions next season since it appears to be half focused on him and the rest still on Louis. There are limited number of episodes in a season so I am aware that there is only so much ground that can be covered in terms of consequences and fallout from these events. It is difficult having a lack of a black persons perspective in the making of the show because even if Claudia was always going to die and Louis was going to interpret the events wrong to end up with her killer, there is a way that could’ve been handled that didn’t cause as much triggering and distaste for black viewers

(context)

(posting this as it is for a fan vent)

Part 2 also:

"Black anon here who sent an agreeing response to the other ask talking about their reaction to the lynching/racism- the book purists willingly ignore the reality that this book was written by a white woman who was racist and is now in the hands of a white man who does not understand what it is like to be a black person- black American man specifically - living and existing especially in the time period the first two seasons are set in, the early 1900s to present day or close to present day. The book purists focus more on ‘yes this is the Louis and Lestat (as endgame) show if you don’t like it then don’t watch’ and do not even try to give it the same amount of attention or understanding. They do not want to talk about the lynching and how traumatizing that is. It’s not like the showrunner doesn’t care but it doesn’t seem as if he’s as invested in telling that with as much intent as he is at portraying Lestat as interesting and memorable as this new version separate from Lestat’s of the past in media. Yes he cares about this new version of Louis portrayed by Jacob but to what extent because it feels as if the writing for Louis could have been handled with more care in numerous circumstances/situations. It’s not all bad/in distaste I do see instances where the portrayal of Louis is reflected with nuance and I don’t know if that’s Jacob it could be but he only acts to what he is given on the page. He does understand Louis more- not only as a black person but in terms of things he has discussed before like mental health struggles- I understand that this show is about vampires and complexity and a range of other themes but this can’t be ignored and should be handled with the same weight and intention as Lestat being developed as he has and will be for next season. It must be easier for the showrunner to see Lestat because he is also white, so there is a level of understanding. But Louis who is black in the show- he will never understand that experience of being a black American or a gay black American man at that- and yes he can research or consult with people if he hasn’t already- but I’m noticing discrepancies and that can only do so much when he doesn’t understand/live in that experience himself. This is not to say that Louis is unlikable or uninteresting because I find Louis to be very interesting and I very much enjoy him as a character however what he endures and experience feels like never ending pain. Yes he is guilt ridden and traumatized and depressed but that’s not all he is. Yes, this is his life story entangled with moments that bring out these feelings but I want to see more. I hope to see a shift to something else moving forward next season and beyond since the showrunner intends to do 8-10 seasons allegedly"

#asks #interview with the vampire #amc interview with the vampire #interview with the vampire amc #amc iwtv #iwtv amc #iwtv 2022 #iwtv s2 #fandom racism

ca-suffit

I think what’s upsetting me the most about this show is that they’re so worried about upsetting white audiences but they have no problem triggering black trauma with their endless connections to anti blackness. I mean why have the trial turned into a lynching? why make all these callbacks to slavery and racism that obviously make your black audience uncomfortable when you’re going just to avoid talking about it with actors and producers because…white people are going to get upset? As if black people aren’t upset by all the references being made….

They are saying that Armand and Lestat participated in this brutal treatment of Louis and Claudia, lynched them and I’m supposed to just keep on watching afterwards because of what? the white man’s allure?? AMC really dropped the ball on this for me. Disappointing bc this show was phenomenal but the way s2 concludes is just callous. Episode 7 is unwatchable to me bc even with the coven’s death (which is pathetically short in comparison to what Louis and Claudia went through which is more bs but whatever) it feels like there’s no justice in the end. Claudia is dead and Armand and Lestat face no consequences for their participation in her death.

(posting this as it is for a fan vent)

yusufalkaysanii

I mean, no. You also have the option to not watch it. Hope that helps!

ca-suffit

Congratulations. U were so hell bent on feeling superior that u missed the entire point of what the anon is upset about to wank on about ur own issues that have fuck all to do with what's being said. Try reading the post next time.

The more I get into the show/show fandom the more grateful I am that my first introduction to these books (+ the movie) was in an academic setting in a class where we discussed how vampires are portrayed in media/how they're often a reflection of the author and/or culture's biases, and are usually a metaphor for the author and/or culture's bigoted fears (usually against queer people, POC, and Jewish people). So when you read the book with that knowledge in mind from the start and your professor understands that you can't analyze vampire lit without addressing the racism/homophobia/antisemitism/etc usually present to some degree in these books, you come out of it with a wildly different view than people who read them uncritically and who are not also part of one of those marginalized groups might, and can see that oh yeah. The author's pretty racist and it shows! And if anything idk I have a greater appreciation because that's the way I was introduced to this universe, as it were, and a much greater appreciation for the show. I'll be curious to see how they handle things from here though, because they're now walking on a tightrope imo

I wrote a few responses to this but it wasn't satisfying me, so I'll try to be succinct. Ty for sharing this btw. My response is sort of a side rant wrt these topics and what I've seen repeated in the fandom for years.

The most annoying thing to me about this fandom is how willing a lot of book purists become to weaponize the importance of white queerness above all else when that's not even the main theme of the show. They will chastise show fans for not knowing the books but then misunderstand any themes from the show bcuz they've made it clear they can't relate to characters who aren't white.

If ppl want to get on a soapbox about queer issues, it needs to extend beyond whiteness or ur fucking useless. If ppl are trying to pass themselves off as academic on the topic of gothic literature and whatever else, it *has* to extend to including bipoc histories too or else it's not a full history at all. We have seen examples like gorrei / neilcfreak being abusive in antiblack ways and using white, Jewish identity as a shield for that. Vampires and other monsters have long stood for so many "others" in society, as u mentioned. The fact that many fans here choose to only examine that through a white lens, when the show is practically spoon feeding the audience about the black American experience otherwise (for the same issues they're always screaming are so important to them), is certainly a fucking choice.

#asks #interview with the vampire #amc interview with the vampire #interview with the vampire amc #amc iwtv #iwtv amc #iwtv 2022 #fandom racism

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